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I like the idea of overcoming temptation rather than simply rejecting temptation outright.
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Jun 30, 2018 18:39
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I'm fine with the Arwen over glorfindel scene because that scene kicks so much rear end and is shot beautifully. Any recommendations for a comprehensive reference book that isn't by David loving Day? (Though the Ian Miller and John Blanche artwork is great)
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Jul 18, 2019 19:56
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The way the Nazgūl just seem to appear out of nowhere makes them so eerie, even in broad daylight. You catch a glimpse of one of them, and then suddenly the other eight are right on your rear end and howling at you.
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Jul 18, 2019 20:02
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It does rob Eowyn of her significance later on, so I'll take Eowyn keeping her arc over Arwen's slashed arc being completed.
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Jul 20, 2019 02:36
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But then you'd have to cut the "Aragorn falls two hundred feet off a cliff and Viggo Mortensen nearly drowns only to be saved by a horse exclusive to the extended edition" subplot... And nothing of value would be lost.
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Jul 20, 2019 04:02
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Make it so Aragorn marries Eowyn and sparks off another Kin Strife because Go for is full of numenorian nationalists.
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Jul 21, 2019 02:35
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Amy of the Dead at Dunharrow: amazing looking ghost effects. Army of the Dead at Pelennor Fields? Precursor to the pitfalls of all-cgi battle scenes.
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Jul 21, 2019 21:18
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That's because Zack Snyder is a violence fetishist who thinks Rorschach is awesome because he kills people, rather than a broken shell of a man with an awful upbringing. Snyder is less interested in the psychological themes of superhero stories and is laser focused on making the biggest, most brutal looking punchmans fights.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:47
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I was thinking about Galadriel's speech to Frodo about what she would become with the Ring, and I got some Ozymandias vibes. Am I reaching or did Tolkien take some inspiration from Shelley?
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Jul 22, 2019 00:54
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hannibal posted:Pelennor Fields? I seem to recall the big battle of the Last Alliance (was that in FOTR or TT? I can't recall) being lauded as a huge next-gen moment in movie making. The War of the Last Alliance scene has a few wide shots that are all-cgi but the main focus of the battle is in close ups and the main struggle between Sauron, Elendil and Isildur. It looks dated, but the scene itself is still pretty good. Pelennor Fields has multiple scenes that are all-cgi and also have the added issue of being shot in "daylight" as opposed to overcast volcanic ash, so the shortcomings of CGI are put in focus. And then you get ridiculous stuff like Legolas playing Shadow of the Colossus, Eowyn reenacting a scene from Jurassic Park 2, and the army of the dead turned into killer fire ants. Pelennor Fields has some really great moments, but it is also an example of what happens when ambition can outstep ability, and CGI is used to fill in the gaps rather poorly.
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Jul 22, 2019 01:24
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hannibal posted:Yeah, I can agree with that. Clearly, though, the worst part is that there's no Rammas Echor. There is in the Return of the King video game where you have to fight through the Southern Gate of the Rammas Echor to get to Pelennor Fields.
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Jul 22, 2019 04:19
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Much of Rohan shown in the films is set along the White Mountains, so I can buy it being more rocky along the road to Helm's Deep.
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Jul 23, 2019 03:59
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Been rereading Fellowship of the Ring for the first time since I was a teen (now with several years of literary criticism education under my belt) and I have really enjoyed the progression in Book One as Frodo comes to understand just what he's gotten himself into. The book starts out pretty much like a sequel to The Hobbit, with each chapter being it's own little mini adventure with the chipper hobbits going on a merry little trip, with funny characters like Tom and Maggot and a mean ole' Willow tree, and then Frodo finds the inner courage of hobbits to fight off a Barrow Wight. It seems like they are succeeding and facing the challenges as they come with a combination of luck, determination and courage. And then they get to Bree, enter the world of the Big Folk and things get serious very quickly. The cheerful bar has Frodo sing a silly song and make a fool of himself, then Strider enters the picture and puts it to the hobbits how catastrophically careless they've been and how dangerous the world of Men can be. They can't be trusted on sight like hobbits, and even well meaning folk like Butterbur can endanger others through inaction or carelessness (his failure to send Gandalf's message delayed Frodo's departure by nearly two months). It's a really neat gear change once Strider appears, as the creepy shadows of the Black Riders suddenly become a deadly threat, and the stakes are raised significantly. As an aside, I also watched bits and pieces of the Bakshi film, and he used a hell of a lot of dialogue from the books. John Hurt's Aragorn absolutely nails it.
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Aug 5, 2019 16:47
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Fellowship is the best film and Return is the weakest, but that weakness mostly stems from the middle part dragging and how Denethor was done so dirty. Like what the gently caress, Peter Jackson you went from King Lear to Macbeth in terms of "crazy Shakespearian leaders" with Denethor. The ending is twenty minutes long but it kind of deserves to be that long.
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Aug 8, 2019 15:34
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I like his ability to run a mile while on fire to leap to his death from the outer spar of the city. I would have traded the Dunharrow rampage at Pelennor Fields for the Grey Company and Imrahil. You could still have Elrond deliver Anduril to Aragorn but make it the symbol of Gondor to rally the men along the coast rather than the "yo this sword unlocks the Army of the Dead combo finisher" wackiness in the film. Pelennor Fields was Théoden's time to shine, but he gets upstaged by a bunch of spooky scary skellingtons.
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Aug 8, 2019 17:42
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One of the things that bugs me as a consequence of adaptation is how Merry and Pippin's characters seem to regress after Fellowship in order to play out beats from the books. Return of the King makes a big deal about how the two hobbits aren't warriors and how afraid they are of the coming battle. Pippin is drat near paralyzed during the siege and Gandalf has to turn into an unconvincing stunt double with ninja moves to save him. That in itself would be fine, since both hobbits do prove their bravery in the film, but it doesn't quite work in the context of the trilogy due to how active they were back in Fellowship. If you wanted to emphasize the hobbits' fear of battle, maybe don't have them diving into a vicious melee in Balin's tomb or dragging Uruk Hai to the ground at Amon Hen and stabbing them through the chest.
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Aug 8, 2019 23:22
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Thrain dying with a Wilhelm Scream because they didn't have time to ADR an actual death scream for the extended edition was a big wtf.
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Aug 9, 2019 04:31
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They also used alternate takes in some scene for the extended cut. Most notable to me is the scene where Gandalf tells Pippin he's in the service of the Steward and has to do what he's told. The theatrical cut has Gandalf remark almost as if he's amused by the situation. The extended cut Ian McKellen starts coughing uncontrollably from his pipe and pretty much yells at Pippin while trying to catch his breath.
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Aug 9, 2019 04:52
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I mean "Illuvatar did it" can be said for a lot of things. Regarding the pitfalls of adaptations, is there anything you'd argue the films did better than the books? I don't really like reluctant Aragorn all that much compared to book Aragorn, but I can accept him because his reluctance and fears make Boromir so much more compelling when the two interact and compare to one another. The movies contort ideas to make his character arc work, but does it ever work. I even like what they did with Faramir, since I like the idea of faltering and then overcoming doubt rather than proving mobility and quality by rejecting temptation outright. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 20:29
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I always liked how the Door of Moria was invisible so the Elves were nice enough to graffiti on it one day so people would know where they were going.
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Aug 12, 2019 22:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZouiWmzWoY
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Aug 14, 2019 13:44
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Not really book related, but does anyone know if there's a way to buy the Costa Botes documentaries for the film trilogy without needing to track down the hard to find limited edition DVDs?
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Aug 20, 2019 05:19
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To Bree or not to Bree.
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Dec 20, 2019 02:48
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Bridge on the River Erui. Morgoth, She Wrote. Ten Things I Hate About Eru. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 02:14
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Middle Earth achieves its success by presenting you with stories that are told and tantalizing you with the untold events. I'd argue Boromir's journey to Rivendell is more engrossing in how it isn't told than if we read it out step by step.
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Jan 10, 2020 21:56
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I'm browsing the bookstore and I came across a copy of the Silmarillion that is illustrated by Ted Nasmith. His artwork is pretty amazing and I'm surprised I've never heard of his Tolkien work before considering how well people know Alan Lee and John Howe's artwork.
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Jan 18, 2020 21:34
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Man, Merry and Pippin look like hobbit strongmen.
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Jan 19, 2020 17:55
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Alan Lee almost wasn't involved with the films because nobody actually knew where he was living at the time and it was only by luck that they managed to track him down and ask him if he would be interested.
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Jan 20, 2020 08:37
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Lee's main strength is in his architectural designs which are fantastic. The guy loves drawing castles and buildings.
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Jan 20, 2020 22:50
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That would require learning Khuzdul and I ain't doing that.
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Jan 21, 2020 02:32
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That aragorn one looks like it could be from a Terry Gilliam animation.
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Jan 21, 2020 18:55
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Runcible Cat posted:Looks like a knockoff of the Bakshi poster: Appropriate since the Fellowship of the Ring cover right before it looks like it has barbarian Boromir from the Bakshi film.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:38
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Or his coming at first light where it's Gandalf alone backlit by the sun. One thing that I rarely see talked about with the films is how it has kind of a screwed up sense of direction in the literal sense. Which way they're going isn't always clear in the visual language. It's not so bad in Fellowship where the visual consensus is "go frame left to frame right to imply traveling east" but in Two Towers they travel southwest to Helm's Deep but still travel frame left to frame right and you have to remind yourself that the Hornburg faces north from its spot in the mountain range. Then Return of the King defies physics by having the sun rise in the North rather than the East so that it can light up the Rohirrim before they charge and suddenly all sense of direction is lost.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:07
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1d4chan is definitely more inclined to talk about Warhammer than Lord of the Rings but they do have a good article about the development of Orcs in the pop culture and how reactions and evolutions of the warrior race archetype change and influence stuff over time. They have a good talk about Tolkien orcs and then how the ubiquity of the Warhammer Fantasy Orc altered public perception of what an Orc actually is. Peter Jackson Orcs owe a lot to Games Workshop in their nastiness and blunt nature
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Feb 17, 2020 15:33
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I'm talking more in demeanor than in appearance for Jackson Orcs. The orcs in Tolkien's writing are cruel and enjoy violence but they're also more articulate and nuanced than Jackson Orcs which are a lot closer in attitude to the homicidal maniacs that are Warhammer orcs.
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Feb 17, 2020 18:51
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Again I think people are getting hung up on the visual appearance of the orcs and are missing the point that the movie orcs have had a personality shift from a cruel antagonist to an outright psychotic one that cannot function in a non-conflict situation. Everything about the behaviour of orcs in the films is built around military action and wanton violence. They don't behave like a species that can do anything more than fight. Tolkien might not go in depth with his orcs but he does give them hints of what life is like beyond armed campaigns for the Dark Lord. I don't have an issue with their visual appearance. In fact I think that the Orcs look fantastic in the films and their spawning pools, while not to my liking, do evoke the clay of the earth origin stories. It's the simplified nature of the films that strips the orcs and the other societies of nuance. Orcs go from an antagonistic force with brief moments of context beyond their military life to a straightforward Legion of Evil who only live for combat. The Rohirrim having their own language and customs gets distilled down to "horse Saxons with some flavour titles." Gondor goes from a politically divided and overstretched nation to a bunch of sad sacks hiding behind a big castle with a hilariously squished geography. The elves lose a lot of their respect for other races and all of them act like arrogant Noldorian douchebags all the time. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 18, 2020 |
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Feb 18, 2020 00:31
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I mean I don't blame him that text is boring as gently caress.
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Feb 18, 2020 23:05
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Mahoning posted:I think the first half of Fellowship of the Ring is the only REALLY hard bit to get through. I wouldn’t say the rest of the book is that tough beyond that. The first half of fellowship is just The Hobbit part 2, electric booglaoo
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Apr 24, 2020 20:11
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On the topic of warfare depictions one of my favourite comes from the journal of rifleman Harris that depicted his experiences as a soldier in the Napoleonic Wars. Major battles that historians pour over in every detail are described by Harris like "we went up the hill and the French were there, and we forced them off" and then he goes back to describe the daily ordeal of finding food and fighting off boredom. I like that Tolkien doesn't indulge in overly descriptive violence. It gets the point across without turning into gratuitous carnage.
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Apr 25, 2020 15:16
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Children of Hurin if you haven't read it yet.
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Apr 29, 2020 20:17
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