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concerned mom posted:Are the History of Middle Earth books worth buying? They seem like such a big cost but I've read everything else including hours on the Encyclopaedia or Arda and am basically a huge nerd who knows a lot about Arda. Can you get them through your local library system? It's what I've done and a good thing, too, as there are only a few that I would want to own.
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Feb 17, 2013 21:28
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VanSandman posted:...Galadriel, who is probably the oldest thing on Middle Earth before she leaves. Not at all. Cirdan is definitely older and Celeborn likely is as well. Probably quite a few of the Telari and Avari are older, actually and possibly some of the few remaining Noldor, e.g., Glorfindal.
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Feb 18, 2013 16:33
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Radio! posted:Would Glorfindel count? He did die, after all, fighting the Balrog in Gondolin. Wikipedia says he was sent back to Middle Earth by the Valar in the Second Age, so would you count his age from then or whenever he was actually born? Gandalf refers to him as such to Frodo.
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Feb 19, 2013 01:18
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Seaside Loafer posted:I always thought that was just another elf called Glorfindel, an ancestor, not the one who died. Nope. Tolkien wrote several essays on how elves that die "unnaturally" (being slain counts as unnatural) can be "reborn" after a certain period in Mandos AND with the blessing of Manwe. It's complicated.
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Feb 19, 2013 01:33
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Seaside Loafer posted:If you can remember and have time could you point me in the direction of that reference please? I have the entire collection but a crap memory Some is in Morgoth's Ring and some in The People's of Middle-earth.
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Feb 19, 2013 01:56
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Strategic Tea posted:There's something odd about Bombadil that I only noticed the last time I read it, so it might just be nonsense or the mood I was in or something. But he seemed sinister, with all the talk of him being the 'master' of his ordered garden, even the 'you should not be awake, go back to sleep' thing with Old Man Willow. I'm not saying he's secretly a communist servant of Morgoth (who doesn't have a birth certificate in Middle Earth Well, he isn't a Man, so that part is right. But one of the previously unpublished essays, The Hunt For The Ring, mentions that the Lord of the Ring-Wraiths spent time in the area: Tolkien wrote posted:But the Black Captain established a camp at Andrath, where the Greenway passed in a defile between the Barrow-downs and the South Downs... ...it is said that the Black Captain stayed there for some days, and the Barrow-wights were roused, and all things of evil spirit, hostile to Elves and Men, were on the watch with malice in the Old Forest and on the Barrow-downs. Doesn't mention how Bombadil could have been completely unaware of his presence, however.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:03
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) or something, but I definitely thought he seemed more menacing than a jolly man with incredible power.
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Seaside Loafer posted:Thanks Well, if you have any more questions, ask them before the 23rd, which is when these are due back at the library.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:04
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Solkanar512 posted:Throughout the books there are references to prophesy. Outside of the mirror that Galadriel uses, what form does this take? Are there folks who are born with a gift for telling the future, rituals that go on, or is it just something that is written about in any great length? Aside from the Valar (especially Mandos), I think Tolkien is referring to foresight, which can hit at any moment and is often associated with impending death.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:53
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FrensaGeran posted:Haven't read the books in a while so this may be a dumb question but why is it Aragorn who takes the throne of Gondor? Why did his father remain in hiding, or his father, etc? Was there some prophecy about Sauron's return that needed to be fulfilled before Isildur's bloodline could come out of hiding? Sauron and his agents were actively looking for any of Isildur's heirs. Also, it wasn't until the War of the Ring that conditions were such that Gondor would even accept him as king.
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Feb 19, 2013 03:06
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euphronius posted:I read it as Gandalf talking him into it. Arwen might have had something to do with it, too.
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Feb 19, 2013 03:09
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euphronius posted:Yeah Gandalf and the Elves. It's always those goddamned elves.
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Feb 19, 2013 03:21
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Bongo Bill posted:Melkor's evil is probably best interpreted as being driven by pride. He coveted the Flame Imperishable, which was Iluvatar's alone and embodied the power of true creation, and he sought to dominate Arda utterly as its supreme god. The distinction between Melkor and Aule is very instructive when talking about pride in Tolkien - both imitated Iluvatar, but while Aule did so to glorify Him, Melkor only wanted to glorify himself. One of the things I particularly enjoyed on Morgoth's Ring was the Myths Tranformed chapter, which has an interesting section called "Notes on motives in the Silmarillion". Tolkien essentially argues that Morgoth is an extreme nihilist (as he puts it), unable to tolerate the existence of anything that was not of his own devising.
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Feb 23, 2013 04:25
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VanSandman posted:He has recurring pains for a few reasons - one is the morgul blade, one is when the ring was destroyed, and I think one is for Shelob. I could be wrong about Shelob. "I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and a long burden. Where shall I find rest?" In one of the History of Middle-earth books, Tolkien says that Frodo was permitted to pass over the Sea in part because the Ring had, to some extent or other, overthrown his mind. He did not, after all, relinquish it willingly; it was taken from him by force. He is allowed to go with the elves so that he might find true rest and balance before he dies.
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Mar 29, 2013 17:22
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jivjov posted:With the One Ring destroyed, would he have even been able to cling to life? I thought that was a function of the ring. I don't recall how book accurate this is, but Galadrial's narration in the film says that it was the ring itself that granted Gollum "unnatural long life." Frodo wasn't unnaturally old, you know.
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Mar 29, 2013 19:58
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rypakal posted:In addition to the example of Gollum, we have the example of Bilbo. Bilbo ages very rapidly, but doesn't age very rapidly and then die. He may have voluntarily let his life go eventually, but a little trip in Valinor would speed the process right along. None of them could permanently cling to life, but they could live long past their natural end of life. He didn't age rapidly; he "picked up where he left off" after giving up the Ring. He was 129 when the Fellowship set out, so of course he's going to look aged by then. I don't recall anything in the History volumes about Valinor speeding up the dying process, however.
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Mar 29, 2013 20:21
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Levitate posted:Isn't there something about how Bilbo and Frodo didn't actually go to Valinor, but probably some other place where they chilled with the elves? That's one of those vague things I remember but don't know enough off the top of my head about where to look it up. I thought Valinor was only for the Elves and above and it was pretty much no go for anyone else ever Bilbo and Frodo were granted special dispensation.
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Mar 30, 2013 07:36
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Octy posted:Is there anything about what might happen to Orcs when they die? Tolkien never quite fleshed out it out.
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Mar 30, 2013 07:38
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SirPhoebos posted:I reached the chapter with Tom Bombadil in my re-read and I had totally forgoten about Goldberry. I know that Tom has a They meet in one of the poems in this collection..
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Jan 24, 2015 23:22
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status in the lore, but what about Goldberry? Is her background ever illuminated?
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Tree Bucket posted:But I already live in Australia. 
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Oct 22, 2018 02:14
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