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Fisticuffs
Aug 9, 2007

Okay you a goon but what's a goon to a goblin?
I graduated with a humanities degree three years ago, with every intention of going on to law school. I hesitated due to general unrest in the field. Though I think I would enjoy legal work, I'm not looking to roll the dice on that sort of debt load just to have a shot at a super saturated field.

I also have a general interest in technology, and have been looking into online graduate programs(I may move in the next year or two), but I'm fairly certain that my background in computer science is far too shallow to jump in at that level. Would it be insane to get a second undergraduate degree? I could just stop listing my first degree once I start looking to change fields. I'm concerned that a computer science grad program will reasonably assume a level of prior knowledge that I just don't have.

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root of all eval
Dec 28, 2002

Fisticuffs posted:

I graduated with a humanities degree three years ago, with every intention of going on to law school. I hesitated due to general unrest in the field. Though I think I would enjoy legal work, I'm not looking to roll the dice on that sort of debt load just to have a shot at a super saturated field.

I also have a general interest in technology, and have been looking into online graduate programs(I may move in the next year or two), but I'm fairly certain that my background in computer science is far too shallow to jump in at that level. Would it be insane to get a second undergraduate degree? I could just stop listing my first degree once I start looking to change fields. I'm concerned that a computer science grad program will reasonably assume a level of prior knowledge that I just don't have.

I can't speak for the industry at large, but I do know one of the benefits of technology positions is that they can be secured without a degree in many cases if there is proof of ability. I have a Bachelor of Arts in Web Design and have no problem with developer/programming work based on my personal portfolio.

Instead of shelling out 20k+ on a new degree just focus on skill building and create a portfolio website showcasing your skills. Just don't BS clients/employers on your true talents and you should be fine to get something entry level somewhere. If you knew a base level of HTML/CSS you could make at least $15 an hour, and it just goes up from there.

What tech fields specifically do you have an interest in? Front-end development is probably the easiest entry level position to hire into, and there are tons of branches to explore from there. If you enjoy design and coding both, there are some really great opportunities in front-end development beyond entry level as well.

sim
Sep 24, 2003

I dropped out of college and had no problem finding an entry level front-end development job, because I had the skills and a small portfolio. Now with 5 years of experience, I doubt I'll ever get a degree. If you're interested in the field, take an introductory class or two (probably online), just to see if you like it. There are infinite amounts of free tutorials for HTML, CSS, JavaScript, or your server side language of choice: PHP, ASP.NET, Ruby, etc.

ProFootballGuy
Nov 6, 2012

by angerbot
Don't get a second bachelor's. You can definitely learn enough on your own and through working low-end tech jobs, to get a baseline level of knowledge if you want to go on to get a graduate degree.

If you have no degree at all I do recommend at least getting a bachelor's (in anything) if you intend to move up and not focus strictly on the tech side for your entire career. There a lot of rock-star nerds out there without degrees, but it takes more effort to get to that point than it would to just get the degree (IMO). It'll at least keep your options open and won't immediately disqualify you from degree-requiring positions. But I see no benefit to getting a second bachelor's.

Uranium 235
Oct 12, 2004

Fisticuffs posted:

I graduated with a humanities degree three years ago, with every intention of going on to law school. I hesitated due to general unrest in the field. Though I think I would enjoy legal work, I'm not looking to roll the dice on that sort of debt load just to have a shot at a super saturated field.

I also have a general interest in technology, and have been looking into online graduate programs(I may move in the next year or two), but I'm fairly certain that my background in computer science is far too shallow to jump in at that level. Would it be insane to get a second undergraduate degree? I could just stop listing my first degree once I start looking to change fields. I'm concerned that a computer science grad program will reasonably assume a level of prior knowledge that I just don't have.
Counterpoint to the last few replies: I got a humanities/social science type of degree starting out, but decided I wanted to go into a technical medical profession. I went back to school and got second and third bachelor's degrees in physics and medical dosimetry. I had to take out student loans and go through 3 more years of school (just 3 due to having lots of prerequisites and core classes, and working really hard), but when I was finished, my starting salary was very high. I would do it again, no question.

Going back for another bachelor's degree can be a good idea like it was in my case, but I think it really depends on what you want to do. I'm sure there are tech jobs you can get that don't require a CS degree, but those jobs may not be what you are after.

I think the key for you will be deciding more specifically what you want to do professionally. Having general interest in technology is one thing, but would you be happy with any ol' tech job? I think it would be worthwhile to investigate some specific jobs/careers and see what kinds of qualifications are required for them. Think about what kind of quality of life you want to have, where you want to live, and how much money it will take to do those things. Do you want a flexible work schedule, or a straightforward 9-5? Do you want to be in a salary position, or wage? What kind of employer do you want to work for? Do you want to be in a business, medical, or casual environment? Do you have any aspirations to become a manager? I wouldn't recommend going back to school until you've answered these questions and you're sure it's necessary. It's hard work but if it lets you meet your goals, like it did for me, then it's worth every penny, every second, and every ounce of effort.

Julio Cesar Fatass
Jul 24, 2007

"...."
Having a BBA and being in CRM has made me very conscious of how much of a soft-skill glut there is in the marketplace right now. While trying to fill a position in my team I've interviewed people with decades of marketing and demand generation experience who were desperate to get into the tech field and learn a hard skill - any hard skill.

What worries me about those interviews is the idea that I'm seeing myself in 20 years if I lose the initiative in my professional development.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


ProFootballGuy posted:

Don't get a second bachelor's. You can definitely learn enough on your own and through working low-end tech jobs, to get a baseline level of knowledge if you want to go on to get a graduate degree.

You don't need a second bachelor's to go on to grad school, but applying based on what you've learned on the job is pretty much a waste of admissions fees. IMO, you need the rough equivalent of a minor in CS to really have a shot of getting in. Fortunately that level of coursework is pretty easy to complete online these days, so it's not an incredible burden.

Fisticuffs
Aug 9, 2007

Okay you a goon but what's a goon to a goblin?

Uranium 235 posted:

Counterpoint to the last few replies: I got a humanities/social science type of degree starting out, but decided I wanted to go into a technical medical profession. I went back to school and got second and third bachelor's degrees in physics and medical dosimetry. I had to take out student loans and go through 3 more years of school (just 3 due to having lots of prerequisites and core classes, and working really hard), but when I was finished, my starting salary was very high. I would do it again, no question.

Going back for another bachelor's degree can be a good idea like it was in my case, but I think it really depends on what you want to do. I'm sure there are tech jobs you can get that don't require a CS degree, but those jobs may not be what you are after.

I think the key for you will be deciding more specifically what you want to do professionally. Having general interest in technology is one thing, but would you be happy with any ol' tech job? I think it would be worthwhile to investigate some specific jobs/careers and see what kinds of qualifications are required for them. Think about what kind of quality of life you want to have, where you want to live, and how much money it will take to do those things. Do you want a flexible work schedule, or a straightforward 9-5? Do you want to be in a salary position, or wage? What kind of employer do you want to work for? Do you want to be in a business, medical, or casual environment? Do you have any aspirations to become a manager? I wouldn't recommend going back to school until you've answered these questions and you're sure it's necessary. It's hard work but if it lets you meet your goals, like it did for me, then it's worth every penny, every second, and every ounce of effort.

I would like to program. I like dicking around with code. I've got a decent handle on HTML, I'm trying to pick up Java, and I used to know C++ but have completely forgotten it. I'm mostly looking to improve my quality of life, I'm glad you brought that up. I make 45k now, but I'm not in love with my job. I haven't been in love with many jobs, and don't really see that in the cards if I want to live the sort of life I want financially, so that's not a huge factor for me. As long as my peers aren't cocks and my bosses aren't unreasonable I'll be okay with doing work I'm not super crazy about. I think I'd prefer a business or casual environment to a medical one, but I don't think this is a make-or-break thing for me. The pay, work/life balance, and peer group are all much more important considerations to me, probably in roughly that order. I don't have a preference as far as working in HTML or C# down the line, but I think a structured environment would really help me advance my knowledge more quickly.

I like having a set schedule, but it's not a major thing for me. I've worked third shifts and swing shifts and they're manageable for me. I wouldn't move from my current job, which I abhor, unless I was going to pull a decent salary. This is why I'm fairly certain I'll need to complete a second undergraduate degree if not a Master's. Basically, I'm looking to do some form of 9-5 salaried programming work.

ultrafilter posted:

You don't need a second bachelor's to go on to grad school, but applying based on what you've learned on the job is pretty much a waste of admissions fees. IMO, you need the rough equivalent of a minor in CS to really have a shot of getting in. Fortunately that level of coursework is pretty easy to complete online these days, so it's not an incredible burden.

I hadn't thought much about this but I'm going to look into it. I have tomorrow off, hopefully I can go bug a counselor at a nearby school. Thank you.

Ultimate Mango
Jan 18, 2005

Julio Cesar Fatass posted:

Having a BBA and being in CRM has made me very conscious of how much of a soft-skill glut there is in the marketplace right now. While trying to fill a position in my team I've interviewed people with decades of marketing and demand generation experience who were desperate to get into the tech field and learn a hard skill - any hard skill.

What worries me about those interviews is the idea that I'm seeing myself in 20 years if I lose the initiative in my professional development.

If anyone else gets something from this thread, please let it be this:

:siren: Never, ever let up on your professional development.

It doesn't matter how old or young or what your field. I have a guy on my team quite a bit older than me who is a total stud in no small part because he has always kept learning new things and is picking up whatever I need him to learn. I had another guy about his age burn out after a year because he didn't work his plan, got frustrated, and quit.

Keep changing to meet market demands and reinvent yourself if you have to. Plan that everything you know technically is going to be obsolete in three or five years.

ProFootballGuy
Nov 6, 2012

by angerbot

Fisticuffs posted:

I hadn't thought much about this but I'm going to look into it. I have tomorrow off, hopefully I can go bug a counselor at a nearby school. Thank you.
The counterpoint to "wasting" a couple hundred bucks applying to grad programs is to spend tens of thousands and a year+ going back for formal classes at the undergrad level? Sheeeit. Do what you want but it's a loving stupid idea.

It's not like you're getting into MIT either way, why not spend a couple months studying the *insane* amount of free knowledge you can get online about programming/CS/tech subjects? Why not work in the field first to see if it's something you can even tolerate?

And you're not going to make big $ at a "9-5" programming job. You might make big $ in a "7 AM-10 PM" programming job.

moon demon
Sep 11, 2001

of the moon, of the dream
But I just want a job that pays a lot and I don't have to work that much is that so much to ask :mad:

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

chupacabraTERROR posted:

But I just want a job that pays a lot and I don't have to work that much is that so much to ask :mad:

Actuary. Make 150-200k easy with a 40 hour or less work week.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
Doesn't that require like 10 years of tests?

Fisticuffs
Aug 9, 2007

Okay you a goon but what's a goon to a goblin?

ProFootballGuy posted:

The counterpoint to "wasting" a couple hundred bucks applying to grad programs is to spend tens of thousands and a year+ going back for formal classes at the undergrad level? Sheeeit. Do what you want but it's a loving stupid idea.

It's not like you're getting into MIT either way, why not spend a couple months studying the *insane* amount of free knowledge you can get online about programming/CS/tech subjects? Why not work in the field first to see if it's something you can even tolerate?

And you're not going to make big $ at a "9-5" programming job. You might make big $ in a "7 AM-10 PM" programming job.

Are there jobs available where I could make north of 50k per year without a degree related to computer science? I make decent money where I work now, which is why I would consider an investment in furthering my education might be worthwhile. I'm looking into it. That's why I'm seeking advice. I haven't come across any ways to break into tech or systems secruity or programming or what have you outside of trying to work IT for one of those places and wedge your way in by demonstrating competency, but I make too much now to really consider that. But if there's some other entry level position I hadn't considered let me know.

I'm not married to the idea of programming. Of all of the potential fields related to computer science, it's pretty much the only thing I have much tangible experience with. I've never dabbled in building or maintaining databases or network security. I would also be able to expose myself to more different applications of computer science in a formal education program.

chupacabraTERROR posted:

But I just want a job that pays a lot and I don't have to work that much is that so much to ask :mad:

Where did I say this? Some overtime is implicit in most full-time and especially most salaried positions. I understand that.

Fisticuffs fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Apr 5, 2013

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Harry posted:

Doesn't that require like 10 years of tests?

Hey now, some people finish in eight.

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

Harry posted:

Doesn't that require like 10 years of tests?

No. I would say 5-6 on the mid-high end with a couple of those years in college. It took me 2.5-3 with one of them in college (some time spent waiting in between required seminars so I don't count it all as study time)

root of all eval
Dec 28, 2002

Fisticuffs posted:

Are there jobs available where I could make north of 50k per year without a degree related to computer science?

...

Where did I say this? Some overtime is implicit in most full-time and especially most salaried positions. I understand that.

Some people can't seem to rationalize that 50k is big bucks to folks like us.

Yes, you can have your cake and eat it too if ~50k is an acceptable income level, though maybe not right away. I make 45+ bonuses at a graphic design/marketing house with no overtime demands in an amazingly fun environment.

It's possible to sort of wedge yourself into smaller businesses as a multi-tool. Knowing computer science to a lot of these smaller creative places makes you a demi-god and somewhat irreplaceable. If you can find other hats to wear it helps, since small firms may not have full time development needs. That's why I was pushing toward front-end developer. There is a certain culture present in creative production houses that appeals to me more than any programming heavy corporate role. I'll probably never break 55k here, but I am more stress-free than I ever thought possible. There is also a huge variety of jobs I take care of, so I never get into a rut or get burned out on long-term projects. Until I have kids, this is where I belong.

The set-back professionally is that I have no one to learn from, and no promotion capabilities. I can leverage my skills and dependability to get raises, but my actual income potential for the business is limited to about 60k at this point. The sheer variety of projects I am asked to spearhead keeps me sharp, but I don't really have a good mentor for organizational/process skill improvements.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

Vomik posted:

No. I would say 5-6 on the mid-high end with a couple of those years in college. It took me 2.5-3 with one of them in college (some time spent waiting in between required seminars so I don't count it all as study time)

Everything I've heard/read says longer. I also found this thing which seems to suggest that:
http://www.casact.org/admissions/reports/travel2010.pdf

T0MSERV0
Jul 24, 2007

You shouldn't expect to defeat him, he is designed to be a war machine.
Becoming a full actuary will take years of passing tests. BUT, any company that hires actuaries at all will consider you employable after you pass your first exam. It'll be expected that you'll continue to pass exams as you work, and you're not allowed (m)any fails along the way, but if you can hack the math being an actuary is a good way to go.

Frankly, any profession that is that heavy in math gets paid. CS, Engineering, you name it.

Fisticuffs
Aug 9, 2007

Okay you a goon but what's a goon to a goblin?

BossRighteous posted:

Some people can't seem to rationalize that 50k is big bucks to folks like us.

Yes, you can have your cake and eat it too if ~50k is an acceptable income level, though maybe not right away. I make 45+ bonuses at a graphic design/marketing house with no overtime demands in an amazingly fun environment.

It's possible to sort of wedge yourself into smaller businesses as a multi-tool. Knowing computer science to a lot of these smaller creative places makes you a demi-god and somewhat irreplaceable. If you can find other hats to wear it helps, since small firms may not have full time development needs. That's why I was pushing toward front-end developer. There is a certain culture present in creative production houses that appeals to me more than any programming heavy corporate role. I'll probably never break 55k here, but I am more stress-free than I ever thought possible. There is also a huge variety of jobs I take care of, so I never get into a rut or get burned out on long-term projects. Until I have kids, this is where I belong.

The set-back professionally is that I have no one to learn from, and no promotion capabilities. I can leverage my skills and dependability to get raises, but my actual income potential for the business is limited to about 60k at this point. The sheer variety of projects I am asked to spearhead keeps me sharp, but I don't really have a good mentor for organizational/process skill improvements.

I appreciate this response but I was trying to illustrate why I think pursuing further education is the best answer for what I'm looking to do, at least In some form. I already make 45k where I work now, but I don't see any advancement opportunities here. I would like to start a career in computer science, not just get a good job in the field(though I am trying to start with a good job in the field, which is another reason why I think I should go back to school).

School would take a while, but I feel like I'm spinning my wheels at my current job and will be for as long as I'm here. I won't starve in the meantime, the investment would be worth it if it enabled me to move to a field where I could conceivably make more money ten or twenty years down the line(I'm going to eventually get my masters in computer science either way).

Honestly I'm not certain what I'd like to do. I think I wouldn't mind programming, I'd like to be exposed to more applications of computer science as well.

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

Harry posted:

Everything I've heard/read says longer. I also found this thing which seems to suggest that:
http://www.casact.org/admissions/reports/travel2010.pdf

That is the CAS which is just one of the societies. CAS is a bit longer than the SOA, but either way it's really up to your ability.

The first 5 are offered 4-5 times a year and the next 3-4 are offered 2 times a year. So travel time is more dependent on your pass rate than some time road block.

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.

Fisticuffs posted:

I also have a general interest in technology, and have been looking into online graduate programs(I may move in the next year or two), but I'm fairly certain that my background in computer science is far too shallow to jump in at that level...

I appreciate this response but I was trying to illustrate why I think pursuing further education is the best answer for what I'm looking to do, at least In some form....I would like to start a career in computer science, not just get a good job in the field(though I am trying to start with a good job in the field, which is another reason why I think I should go back to school)...

School would take a while, but I feel like I'm spinning my wheels at my current job and will be for as long as I'm here. I won't starve in the meantime, the investment would be worth it if it enabled me to move to a field where I could conceivably make more money ten or twenty years down the line(I'm going to eventually get my masters in computer science either way).

A lot of goons will tell you just to "learn it on your own." I'm not going to weigh in on that one way or the other. But there are definitely CS master's programs that non-CS majors - with little programming background - can do. UWG has one, for instance. Just FYI.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Pollyanna posted:

I'm a recent college graduate with a BS in Biomedical Engineering. BME-specific jobs seem to require grad degrees, which I don't have. I have experience in biomechanical statistical analysis (breaking chicken bones, getting their structural properties, programming in MATLAB, chartz n graffz, etc.), biomaterials (making medical devices and the like), and medical imaging (image analysis and processing, programming in automation of image processing). My resume is here.

What kind of job would be best for me? I've been having trouble finding jobs that I qualify for.

Reposting, since I never got any responses.

DukAmok
Sep 21, 2006

Using drugs will kill. So be for real.

Pollyanna posted:

Reposting, since I never got any responses.

Any sort of analyst or "research" job. Play up the Matlab, science-y stuff, and your numbers skills. Those are really broadly applicable, you don't need to just apply them to chicken bones. Here's the first result I found for "Analyst" on Indeed, at Paramount pictures.

code:
Distribution Analyst - Home Media (3742) Los Angeles, California

Responsibilities to include, but not limited to:

*WB Transition – coordination and data prep
*One View forecasting model development
*Prepare Internal Weekly scorecard with key metrics for Distribution/Freight & Operations
*Hedway reporting resource
     -Run reports
     -Implement / Test new Hedway attributes
     -Analysis and data correction efforts
*Prepare monthly freight/distribution reporting and tracking
*Ad hoc special projects often requiring in-depth research and analysis
     -Cost analysis both customer and Technicolor
*Ad Hoc reporting, such as defectives shipped etc during recalls
*Manage 3rd party fulfillment of defective replacement programs
*Review, Track and Publish Tech’s operational goals / SLAs
*Provide back up support for Senior Manager Order Management
*Review of Returns log/investigate outstanding returns
As best I can tell you would be looking at spreadsheets of various freight distributions of DVDs, coming up with ways to track, model, and forecast those distributions, and generally be aware of any red flags that might crop up. I'd bet you've never thought about the way DVDs were shipped across the country, but I'd also bet you'd pick it up extremely quickly, numbers are just numbers.

Crazyweasel
Oct 29, 2006
lazy

Your resume isn't working for me.

You should look into getting into a company as a Test Engineer or in Quality Assurance. It's usually in demand because people don't go to school to be Test Engineers, but it might just be able to get you in to a company and you can work your way up from there.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Crazyweasel posted:

Your resume isn't working for me.

You should look into getting into a company as a Test Engineer or in Quality Assurance. It's usually in demand because people don't go to school to be Test Engineers, but it might just be able to get you in to a company and you can work your way up from there.

What about it bugs you? I had it done by Resume-to-Interviews a while back and maybe it needs some updating...

QA/test engineering was my first choice for a first job, but I haven't had much luck getting any jobs like that. They're all either for senior positions (PhD/MS and 4+ years) or...well, basically just that.

DukAmok posted:

Any sort of analyst or "research" job. Play up the Matlab, science-y stuff, and your numbers skills. Those are really broadly applicable, you don't need to just apply them to chicken bones. Here's the first result I found for "Analyst" on Indeed, at Paramount pictures.

code:
Distribution Analyst - Home Media (3742) Los Angeles, California

Responsibilities to include, but not limited to:

*WB Transition – coordination and data prep
*One View forecasting model development
*Prepare Internal Weekly scorecard with key metrics for Distribution/Freight & Operations
*Hedway reporting resource
     -Run reports
     -Implement / Test new Hedway attributes
     -Analysis and data correction efforts
*Prepare monthly freight/distribution reporting and tracking
*Ad hoc special projects often requiring in-depth research and analysis
     -Cost analysis both customer and Technicolor
*Ad Hoc reporting, such as defectives shipped etc during recalls
*Manage 3rd party fulfillment of defective replacement programs
*Review, Track and Publish Tech’s operational goals / SLAs
*Provide back up support for Senior Manager Order Management
*Review of Returns log/investigate outstanding returns
As best I can tell you would be looking at spreadsheets of various freight distributions of DVDs, coming up with ways to track, model, and forecast those distributions, and generally be aware of any red flags that might crop up. I'd bet you've never thought about the way DVDs were shipped across the country, but I'd also bet you'd pick it up extremely quickly, numbers are just numbers.

This is stuff I can do easy. I can do basically anything as long as you explain to me what it is I need to do. Thing is, they always ask for stuff like I WANT A BS IN MATH NUMBER ACCOUNTING CRONCHING and ALSO 3 YEARS EXP and that scares me off.

Like, I know that I can pretty much do anything with this degree - which makes it hard to figure out what I qualify for.

huhwhat
Apr 22, 2010

by sebmojo
^^^^
I think Crazyweasel was saying he couldn't access your resume. Link is useless for me too.






Recently I've gotten into a quandary that I would appreciate having some goonpinion on.

I've worked for two years in 'research' and analyst type positions. A couple of days back I've successfully interviewed for a job that would pay me 30% more, and the company seems more likely to give raises than the previous ones I've worked for. Downside is, the hiring manager was very adamant about me sticking with the company for at least 3 years. I guess if I quit within 3 years, he'll make things difficult for me in that particular industry.

Complicating matters is the fact that some of the many half-assed PhD interest checks I've sent out over the past few months are actually starting to bear fruit. I have two applications for comp sci related positions scheduled to start in Fall 2013 that I have good vibes on. The admissions committees are taking their sweet time deliberating now and I think I should know by next month if I'm successful or not. Both schools' reputation are middling at best.

Basically, I don't want to burn any bridges, but I'd also like to hedge my bets.

My 'career' goals lean heavily towards whichever option boosts my chances of leaving the third world shithole I currently inhabit. The way I'm seeing this is:

Option 1:
Take job, work for 5+ years, save up enough money to get a master's, go for it, get good references and apply to top schools for PhD.

Option 2:
Chance it with getting a PhD from half-decent schools in hopes that it'll help me land a postdoc or real job in some faraway land.

Option 3:
Take the job. Work for 2-3 months then quit if I get accepted to the PhD programs.

Crazyweasel
Oct 29, 2006
lazy

Pollyanna posted:


QA/test engineering was my first choice for a first job, but I haven't had much luck getting any jobs like that. They're all either for senior positions (PhD/MS and 4+ years) or...well, basically just that.



Like, I know that I can pretty much do anything with this degree - which makes it hard to figure out what I qualify for.

I remember seeing you post before and I know where you are geographically, which is near me. Go to Indeed and type engineering in for *YOUR STATE*(maybe also medical device) and apply to anything that requires 4 years or less experience.

Anecdote: I've applied for about 20 jobs in the past 2 months in a similar field as the one you are looking for(unless you want biomedical chemistry, can't see your resume so don't know). Doing this found me a company that likes me so they are knocking the 4 year experience requirement down to 2 years so I can get in. Don't be scared. Also don't tell me all QA and Test engineer positions need MS or higher, most minimum requirements are recent grad at best, for test engineer at least.

DukAmok
Sep 21, 2006

Using drugs will kill. So be for real.

Pollyanna posted:

This is stuff I can do easy. I can do basically anything as long as you explain to me what it is I need to do. Thing is, they always ask for stuff like I WANT A BS IN MATH NUMBER ACCOUNTING CRONCHING and ALSO 3 YEARS EXP and that scares me off.

Like, I know that I can pretty much do anything with this degree - which makes it hard to figure out what I qualify for.

If they express any trepidation, feel free to suggest a work test. I don't have a degree in math number accounting crunching, but I was able to prove pretty handily in a work test that I was more than able to handle what they threw at me. Don't be scared by experience requirements either, that's obviously their ideal, but if they're not finding what they're looking for, I've seen more than a few places relax those "requirements" into "preferences".

Fisticuffs
Aug 9, 2007

Okay you a goon but what's a goon to a goblin?

Doghouse posted:

A lot of goons will tell you just to "learn it on your own." I'm not going to weigh in on that one way or the other. But there are definitely CS master's programs that non-CS majors - with little programming background - can do. UWG has one, for instance. Just FYI.

I'd be curious to hear your opinion if you have one. Or anyone else's for that matter. I definitely don't know everything; I'm looking for as much advice as you guys are willing to give me.

As for CS master's programs for non-CS majors... I am very, very interested in that. Is UWG supposed to be UWGB for Wisconsin-Green Bay? What school is that? If you knew the name of the program that would probably be helpful, as it could probably help me find other programs like it. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

huhwhat posted:

Option 1:
Take job, work for 5+ years, save up enough money to get a master's, go for it, get good references and apply to top schools for PhD.

Option 2:
Chance it with getting a PhD from half-decent schools in hopes that it'll help me land a postdoc or real job in some faraway land.

Option 3:
Take the job. Work for 2-3 months then quit if I get accepted to the PhD programs.

I have no advice specifically but don't do number three. Morally, its a dick move and hangs your employer out to dry and practically it will bite you in the rear end in the future.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


huhwhat posted:

^^^^
I think Crazyweasel was saying he couldn't access your resume. Link is useless for me too.

Oh. :downs:

http://www.filedropper.com/rpazyresume-march-2013

Crazyweasel posted:

I remember seeing you post before and I know where you are geographically, which is near me. Go to Indeed and type engineering in for *YOUR STATE*(maybe also medical device) and apply to anything that requires 4 years or less experience.

Anecdote: I've applied for about 20 jobs in the past 2 months in a similar field as the one you are looking for(unless you want biomedical chemistry, can't see your resume so don't know). Doing this found me a company that likes me so they are knocking the 4 year experience requirement down to 2 years so I can get in. Don't be scared. Also don't tell me all QA and Test engineer positions need MS or higher, most minimum requirements are recent grad at best, for test engineer at least.

Indeed has led me a lot of places, not all of them particularly great. :saddowns: But I'm bad with search engines. I DID click on an application for a research associate, and they called today asking if I was up for interviewing next week! :dance: It's a contract position, but that's fine.

DukAmok posted:

If they express any trepidation, feel free to suggest a work test. I don't have a degree in math number accounting crunching, but I was able to prove pretty handily in a work test that I was more than able to handle what they threw at me. Don't be scared by experience requirements either, that's obviously their ideal, but if they're not finding what they're looking for, I've seen more than a few places relax those "requirements" into "preferences".

Hmmm. Yeah, that's what's bugged me the most about it, that they assume an entry level newbie would have years of experience under their butt. I saw an application for a recently graduated Java programmer that wanted someone with 13 years of experience. But yeah, a work test sounds like something I could pull off. I'll bring that up to any companies that press me on the issue.

---

I've also been considering a CS masters as well, it's really great to hear that they're doable even if you don't have a CS BS. Does this apply to online MS programs? I know that OSU has an online program, and I was wondering if it was any good.

Xguard86 posted:

I have no advice specifically but don't do number three. Morally, its a dick move and hangs your employer out to dry and practically it will bite you in the rear end in the future.

Yeah, if it's a job that you think you can stand for a few years then option #1 sounds like the best one to me. #3 is dickish and #2 is not going to happen.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Pollyanna posted:

I've also been considering a CS masters as well, it's really great to hear that they're doable even if you don't have a CS BS. Does this apply to online MS programs? I know that OSU has an online program, and I was wondering if it was any good.

There are CS master's programs that are designed for people without a CS undergraduate, but that's not to say that every CS MS is accessible.

huhwhat
Apr 22, 2010

by sebmojo

Xguard86 posted:

I have no advice specifically but don't do number three. Morally, its a dick move and hangs your employer out to dry and practically it will bite you in the rear end in the future.

I hear you.

If I were to actually take Option 3, I'd take comfort knowing that psychopathy is highly correlated with managerial success. :shobon:


A bit of a digression:
I really want to get into Prof A's program. I just wished I knew if the professor was stringing me along or something, maybe so that he can pad out the number of applicants, or maybe he just feels sorry for me.

I have contacted Prof A before but found out that the position he advertised for was filled up. A month later, he suddenly sent me an email asking me to apply for an opening ASAP because the application deadline was the following day. But, when I recently asked him if he could honestly tell me my chances of getting into the program given what he's seen so far, he gave me the evasive 'this program is highly competitive' answer. Don't really know how to read between the lines here.


I will be forced to make a choice between Option 1 & 2 in a couple of days and if I haven't made up my mind I'm flipping a coin.

huhwhat fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Apr 21, 2013

greatZebu
Aug 29, 2004

huhwhat posted:

I hear you.

If I were to actually take Option 3, I'd take comfort knowing that psychopathy is highly correlated with managerial success. :shobon:

I will be forced to make a choice between Option 1 & 2 in a couple of days and if I haven't made up my mind I'm flipping a coin.

As a recent PhD, I'd advise you against 2 unless you're extremely excited about doing research with the advisor you've got lined up. The outlook for research funding is very bad right now, and anecdotally the attrition rate for PhD students who were on the fence about joining the program is incredibly high.

huhwhat
Apr 22, 2010

by sebmojo

greatZebu posted:

As a recent PhD, I'd advise you against 2 unless you're extremely excited about doing research with the advisor you've got lined up. The outlook for research funding is very bad right now, and anecdotally the attrition rate for PhD students who were on the fence about joining the program is incredibly high.

Hmm, mind if I ask what program you're in?

I admit that I am on the fence.

The stipend, not taking into account the local cost of living, is about 2 times what I'll be making if I accepted my new job offer, and that stipend is guaranteed for the duration of the program. While I'm not extremely passionate about the research area, I do like it because it's the kind of niche that will be in demand internationally, and it still has some ties to machine learning which I love.

Edit: Oh hey, I thought, with Decision-Day drawing closer, there's nothing to lose by being honest. Thought I should try deferring my job offer (by 2 months while waiting for admissions committee to make up their mind :lol:) by telling my sob story to the hiring manager and hoping to get some sympathy, but phone calls to the hiring manager did not go through both times. OK, I thought maybe I should try this honesty thing with the prof instead. After some back-and-forth emails, I finally got him to weigh in on my chances, and it's basically "don't wait for the program to make a decision, they are really selective". My fence-sitting behavior no doubt factored into the advice he gave me.

huhwhat fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Apr 23, 2013

LogisticEarth
Mar 28, 2004

Someone once told me, "Time is a flat circle".
I'm looking for some third-party opinions about a choice I'm faced with, it's one of the "I'm almost 30 and now what" deals:

Currently, I am 27, B.A. in geology, employed as a geologist in environmental consulting. Depending on overtime I'm currently making somewhere around $52-56k a year. Health insurance, three weeks payed vacation, 401k, etc. My fiance lives with me, and makes around 40k. Frequently I'm working long days because I'm driving all over the place, or stuck in a hotel room during the week. When I started I liked the idea of being outside a lot, but the irregular hours and exposure to the elements is really starting to wear on me. The company kind of sucks also, and I almost walked out the door back in February after they dumped a 3 month out of town project on me (which I'm still out of town for), after running 10-12 hour days since September, 6 weeks of which was also out of town. This is not what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Meanwhile, my friend works at a big box home improvement store, and just got promoted and transferred to a new store as a manager. He knows I hate my job and basically said he could easily sell me to his higher ups and put me in as another manager. This is a 40-hr a week job, making about $40k, plus health insurance, 401k, not sure about vacation. They also have tuition reimbursement and he basically went to school to get his masters for next to nothing. Unfortunately, he's still been unable to find a job in his field.

The idea of a regular schedule is really tempting to me, as I have been looking for more time to work on my health as well as attempt to run a side-gig to try and break out from my current career path. The idea would be that I take the retail manager position, and use the "down time" to work on re-tooling myself. Take business classes, work on running a part-time small business (likely geology-related, thinking geotourism or education), and try an break out on my own.

On the other hand, this would mean me taking a huge hit to my disposable income (like $900-1000/month). I would still be able to meet daily expenses and savings goals, but not a whole lot else. I also have some advanement potential at my current job, albeit nothing spectacular. The big project I'm currently on is a step up in responsibility. At the same time, a mid-level coworker just quit, and we've hired a few entry-level people, potentially setting me up for a promotion. The promotion wouldn't be anything spectacular, and the job wouldn't really change all that much, but it's still something. Again though, I really dislike the industry and want to break away badly.

So, am I crazy for considering dumping my good but soul-crushing job, for an easier gig so I can re-tool myself? For what it's worth, my fiance has said she'd rather see me make less money and be happier, than be miserable where I am. But there's no guarantee I'd actually be happier in the new place, and I'd feel like a huge chump if it didn't work out.

LogisticEarth fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Apr 23, 2013

Uranium 235
Oct 12, 2004

Pollyanna posted:

Reposting, since I never got any responses.
Medical dosimetry, but you'd need another year of school. It pays very, very well, though, so it might be worth it to you to look into. Your background is perfectly suited for it. Some programs require a radiation therapist background, but several do not (the one I went to did not--my background was physics).

edit: If you are interested in putting in more time for school/residency, medical physics is an option. You could earn a higher salary, but residency positions are very competitive and are required for board certification, which is vital for finding a job. I considered med physics but went for dosimetry since I had already spent quite a bit of time in school and was ready for my career to begin (I got a degree in anthropology before my degree in physics).

Uranium 235 fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Apr 23, 2013

huhwhat
Apr 22, 2010

by sebmojo

LogisticEarth posted:

So, am I crazy for considering dumping my good but soul-crushing job, for an easier gig so I can re-tool myself? For what it's worth, my fiance has said she'd rather see me make less money and be happier, than be miserable where I am. But there's no guarantee I'd actually be happier in the new place, and I'd feel like a huge chump if it didn't work out.

If you aren't being hyperbolic on how much you hate your current job, then change your job. Usually, it's the organizational flaws that get to me and make me switch jobs. Every job change allowed me to meet new people, learn new skills and opened me up to new career opportunities that I've never even considered.

You may end up not being happy in your new position, but I'm sure you'll have the time (no more long hours!) to figure what you really like and what's the next step you should take to grow your career.

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Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Also, make sure your buddy is being realistic on the 40-hours thing. Plenty of places say "oh, it's maybe 40-50 hours except during those rare rush times" and then slam you with salaried-exempt and 70+ forever because every time is rush time.

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