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My experience has largely been negatively correlated. Maybe more macro-stress but day-to-day stress has definitely been less as I've moved up. I guess it's been kind of a bell curve where when I was a peon engineer stress was low, grew as I got to senior, peeked when I was a line manager (and I was a line manager for a long-rear end time) and has been decreasing as I've moved into middle/upper management. Maybe I'll have more long-term stresses around budget or company goals but those don't really impact me on day to day.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:18
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the macro stress at a senior level, in my experience, is managing all of the flighty rear end direct reports.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:32
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That's not been so bad for me. There's some for sure, but it was worse when I was a line manager and I feel like I've gotten better at minimizing flightyness/dumbass-ness/shithead-ness as well as planning ahead so it can be mitigated when it does happen. My bigger stresses are usually "Department Y won't do the thing they said they'd do so now for some reason I need to be the one to tap dance about it" or "It's super clear that the big company objective is not going to be met so now let's see if it explodes or just gets swept under the rug". Both of those things are usually "You can't do anything so why worry" types of things most of the time though.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:42
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there's also macro stress for me because it's professional services so if my peers don't produce we kinda all go down together. that has been harder to deal with than I thought.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:53
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As an IC in an IT roll, money has so far been largely negatively correlated with stress. I make more now than I've ever made before, and in my least-stressful role. Touch computer.
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Nov 6, 2023 22:09
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Ham Equity posted:As an IC in an IT roll, money has so far been largely negatively correlated with stress. I make more now than I've ever made before, and in my least-stressful role. When you're working out your household income do you include everyone in the polycule or just the primary couple?
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Nov 8, 2023 10:39
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knox_harrington posted:When you're working out your household income do you include everyone in the polycule or just the primary couple? The highest-earning member of the household got started on that path from food service at least partially due to a referral to a job from me while he was my roommate, so communal living can be good with money in other ways, too (the initial job was telephone bank teller, he's doing back office stuff now for six figures). Always be networking.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:00
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I need some advice for next steps on my career path. I'm currently living in Thailand, happily married, late 30's, looking to transition back to a role in the US and move back there when my wife's visa paperwork is approved later this year. I worked here as an English teacher at an International School here for 4 years, studying programming / web development on the side. I left the school job last June with the goal of studying coding full time, but I found I had no passion for it, and was discouraged hearing about the current job market being so oversaturated, so I started doing freelance writing on Upwork and have been doing decently at that, landing a good client and saving money for when we move back. I'm a certain crossroads now with my career and feel kind of overwhelmed what to do next. My role before I left for Thailand was Project Manager, and I'm thinking I might want to transition back into that. Everyone at my old company has moved on or is gone but I'm starting to reach back out to some of them. On my LinkedIn I have listed 2 years experience of freelance web development experience, since that's when I started the bootcamp, and I did a few little projects and even one an award on Netlify for one, but I'm wondering if it's worth even including it still since I want to go in a new direction. I'd really appreciate any advice about what are the next best steps I can take. The dream right now is to land a fulltime remote position back in the US that's OK with the current timezone difference before I move back.
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Jan 8, 2024 09:42
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Couple things: 1. I disagree programming jobs are really oversaturated. It's not nearly as good as it was a few years ago but I think people in that industry think "The job market is more like every other industry" means "Things have gone to total poo poo". It isn't easy finding your first development job, but it's not impossible and pretty much every decent developer I've worked with starting out found something recently. It's usually not ideal as a first job but once you have experience it gets much easier. Now, the fact that you say you have no passion is concerning, that usually shines through. I hire new developers and if you have a bootcamp cert, life experience, and some solid consulting jobs under your belt you will be looked at for local jobs. 2. You won't be able to be hired in Thailand by a company looking to hire in the US. If you're living in Thailand, the company would have to pay taxes and be legally allowed to hire in Thailand. While possible a company may hire and then transfer its really unlikely. If you apply for a US job with a Thai address you will be auto-canned. If you keep it obscure, you will be rejected when they find out. A) The best bet here is to have an address in the US and just have a story that you are going back and forth. I would expect you will need to be physically in the US on day 1 though. 3. Getting a remote-only job is going to be tough, that IS a thing that has way more applicants than positions. They exist, but I would only count on that if you have an In, otherwise I think you'll have a really hard time given your situation. The last full-remote job I posted I got 1200+ applications before I shut it down. 4. Include experiences especially recent. Even if you don't go into tech having 18 months of consulting will look good. I would separate bootcamp vs freelance though. Those are two very different things.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:27
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Long-term question for the thread on work location: Looking for the best strategy to change jobs when I'm willing to relocate and don't live in an area with a lot of jobs in my industry. I work in tech, PM in b2b saas at a principal/director level. When I got this role, the company paid for relocation but it was a special program out of MBA. as I look to the future I'm wondering if that is likely to happen again or if I need to consider alternative plans if I want to change jobs or get laid off. I would happily move to a lot of cities but I'm worried that the extra $$$ and difficulty to relocate puts at too much of a disadvantage against other candidates. I'm good enough at my job but not some kind of unicorn hire who could expect a special deal.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:39
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At that seniority you can probably expect relocation assistance.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:41
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Yeah, it'll be a factor though so you may find jobs that pay more money but no relo, which may make more sense. So it's definitely one of those "consider the big picture". Also at principal/director you may also find remote jobs which can let you move whenever/wherever you want. Obv no one is going to give you relo for a remote job but it can make it easier for you to do a move.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:49
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Xguard86 posted:Long-term question for the thread on work location: I've only ever not gotten relo for companies under 100 people. I've moved back and forth across coasts a few times; goes all the way back to junior roles. The relo didn't always cover all moving expenses (ironically it covered more of it earlier, but that's because I've accumulated and transit costs increased). But it's typically there if they're willing to look at non-local candidates.
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Jan 9, 2024 15:48
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I moved states a few years ago for a big company and didn't get diddly (and yes I did ask and was told it wasn't offered at all) 
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Jan 9, 2024 18:45
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Well that's good to hear. We wouldn't even mind paying our own relocation costs if it was somewhere we'd like to live anyway. Most of my anxiety comes from not being in a tech hub and assuming I'd have to do something like quit and move first to be a competitive applicant. I think 90% of this is how many bad stories I see about the job market right now and sweating it.
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Jan 10, 2024 21:26
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If your more senior your fine, apply and then cross the relo bridge when you get there. If you're more junior, having an out-of-state address is frequently a fast track to the trash bin. I'd say do what you can to get a local address (friend or relatives house?) then have a vague story that your already moving that way anyway. As someone who hires juniors a lot, I have so many good candidates that I won't mess around with someone who needs relocation.
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Jan 10, 2024 21:33
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Hey thread, I'm wondering if y'all have any suggestions for "backup careers". I'm in my early 30's, and 100% of my job experience since 2009 has been in entertainment (game dev, comics, PA stuff on set, lifestyle brand editor, etc etc). Almost all of my friends in game dev, animation, and comics are scrambling for work right now, and I'm in a real lovely spot, so I was wondering: 1. What jobs outside of the above industries could I try to look for with my skill set? My big problem is I'm a combo game dev/2D artist/writer and I cannot program for poo poo (I'm a decent scripter though). I'm an agented author/illustrator otherwise and my agent has been working her rear end off trying to find me gigs as normal, but it's gonna be a side gig for the rest of my life. I DO have a number of decent impressive accolades (NYT bestseller, well-reviewed shipped titles, worked on big IP etc) but it's LITERALLY all for cartooning/illustration/etc (not graphic design or anything). I also have a decent amount of QA experience in games. 2. I dropped out of undergrad my junior year to work full-time in game dev, and I'm TECHNICALLY still on a Leave of Absence. I dropped out right before "producer year" where students pitch their games to be funded & work on them for the rest of the year. Right now I'm paying my bills as a solo indie dev with an ongoing episodic indie game. Would it be completely insane to go BACK to school and use that to my advantage to secure funding for my games? Caveat: School is EXTREMELY expensive and I'd be out $60k a year in student loans. 3. I have one year of retail experience working at a print shop/bookbinder where I operated the machines and did pre-production and post-production plus dealing with customers, but that's the only non-entertainment experience I have. I'm also applying to college prof positions since I have an MFA and everything, but I keep making it to the final interview then getting shafted. Basically I need to find a job that's very likely outside of my industries of experience for the next 3-4 years until they bounce back and any and all suggestions are appreciated! I also have some odd job skills (bookbinding etc). I moved out of LA right before the pandemic, so I'm not ruling out that I might just need to save up as much as I can and move back to actually GET a job again.
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Jan 30, 2024 18:18
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Lieutenant Dan posted:Hey thread, I'm wondering if y'all have any suggestions for "backup careers". I'm in my early 30's, and 100% of my job experience since 2009 has been in entertainment (game dev, comics, PA stuff on set, lifestyle brand editor, etc etc). Almost all of my friends in game dev, animation, and comics are scrambling for work right now, and I'm in a real lovely spot, so I was wondering: you have a masters and youre contemplating going back for an undergrad in _a game program_? dont do that. what do you want to do? if your answer is "game dev", then you still need to answer the question because that's not one job at a company of any size.
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Jan 30, 2024 18:58
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I have two friends with MFAs. One is a public school teacher and the other runs an analytics team at a bank. I don't think either of them would've expected to end up where they are now, but that's the way the career path works out. The academic job market is terrible and you're probably not going to get a job there. That's no slight against you; it's just how the odds are.
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Jan 30, 2024 19:10
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leper khan posted:you have a masters and youre contemplating going back for an undergrad in _a game program_? dont do that. It's USC, so I figure if anything that might be worth it. It's way schmancier than my MFA and would be more impressive if I actually graduated, was my line of thinking. I'm a narrative designer who specializes in systems design for single-player story-rich games, especially RPGs, for mobile and AA. I like being a QA analyst for money b/c I legitimately get excited running a Jira triage. Ultimately I'd like to keep doing either of those things until I eventually die, but I'm mostly looking for stuff outside of my actual game dev career plan to make ends meet just in case these next few years are super hard to find gigs for. ultrafilter posted:I have two friends with MFAs. One is a public school teacher and the other runs an analytics team at a bank. I don't think either of them would've expected to end up where they are now, but that's the way the career path works out. Yeah, I figured  I do like teaching but everyone in academia I've asked has given me the thousand-yard-stare, lol.
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Jan 30, 2024 19:53
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ultrafilter posted:The academic job market is terrible and you're probably not going to get a job there. That's no slight against you; it's just how the odds are. Can confirm.
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Jan 30, 2024 20:00
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Lieutenant Dan posted:I like being a QA analyst for money b/c I legitimately get excited running a Jira triage. Ok, that's a career. What is your gap between now and that job? You can absolutely switch into that job in your 30s, and your experience and accomplishments would make you stick out in a very good way. So what is that skill gap?
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Jan 30, 2024 20:05
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Lockback posted:Ok, that's a career. What is your gap between now and that job? You can absolutely switch into that job in your 30s, and your experience and accomplishments would make you stick out in a very good way. So what is that skill gap? That's good to hear - the last time I did QA for a company was 2010, but I've been doing it for my own games/company since 2022, so I'm up to date on everything Jira and could handle everything a 2024 game company can throw at me QA-wise, I'm just worried that giant gap isn't going to look good / doing QA under my own oversight from 2022-onwards isn't gonna hack it. I do run a full-rear end Jira triage and everything, I think I'm just a little concerned I won't be taken seriously.
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Jan 30, 2024 20:14
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Lieutenant Dan posted:Hey thread, I'm wondering if y'all have any suggestions for "backup careers". I'm in my early 30's, and 100% of my job experience since 2009 has been in entertainment (game dev, comics, PA stuff on set, lifestyle brand editor, etc etc). Almost all of my friends in game dev, animation, and comics are scrambling for work right now, and I'm in a real lovely spot, so I was wondering: Does every game that is pitched get funded, just with different amounts? As you more, you are certainly at an advantage when it comes to pitching and experience Is this project your final year? It's certainly an interesting option it if directly aligns with what you want to do
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Jan 30, 2024 20:17
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Chewbecca posted:Does every game that is pitched get funded, just with different amounts? As you more, you are certainly at an advantage when it comes to pitching and experience Just the ones that get picked get funded (my year 14 people pitched and 8 got picked iirc?), but anyone whose game doesn't get picked gets staffed on one of the OTHER games, so no matter what you're working on something that gets funded, which is really nice. It'd be my 2nd-to-final year (I have gen eds to catch up on, so it'd be 1.5 to 2 years by my math, less if I crank the gen eds out elsewhere and get them transferred). I'd honestly love a shot at doing it, I think one of my dumbest regrets is getting cut off from the resources/VC rolodex/access to recruiting & working with people who are safety netted to produce games when I dropped out. edit: for math wrong Lieutenant Dan fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 20:26
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By funded, do you get a salary? Or is it all the other costs of the game? Personally I'm a big believer in doing things that directly align with what you want to do. The further away you get from those things, it can be hard to get back into them If this game was successful, you could always ahem defer again?
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Jan 30, 2024 20:35
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Lieutenant Dan posted:That's good to hear - the last time I did QA for a company was 2010, but I've been doing it for my own games/company since 2022, so I'm up to date on everything Jira and could handle everything a 2024 game company can throw at me QA-wise, I'm just worried that giant gap isn't going to look good / doing QA under my own oversight from 2022-onwards isn't gonna hack it. I do run a full-rear end Jira triage and everything, I think I'm just a little concerned I won't be taken seriously. Find some postings that you think look interesting, build a QA resume, then bring both to the resume thread and we can tell you. In general, I'd say you'd be taken pretty seriously for a intermediate type level of QA, or maybe something like Delivery Management if you like being a Jira Warrior.
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Jan 30, 2024 20:44
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Lieutenant Dan posted:I do run a full-rear end Jira triage and everything, I think I'm just a little concerned I won't be taken seriously. I hereby give you permission to feel like you should be taken seriously
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Jan 31, 2024 01:10
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Ham Equity posted:As an IC in an IT roll, money has so far been largely negatively correlated with stress. I make more now than I've ever made before, and in my least-stressful role. I am trying to, comrade. I am trying!!!
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Jan 31, 2024 22:51
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Lieutenant Dan posted:That's good to hear - the last time I did QA for a company was 2010, but I've been doing it for my own games/company since 2022, so I'm up to date on everything Jira and could handle everything a 2024 game company can throw at me QA-wise, I'm just worried that giant gap isn't going to look good / doing QA under my own oversight from 2022-onwards isn't gonna hack it. I do run a full-rear end Jira triage and everything, I think I'm just a little concerned I won't be taken seriously. It sounds like you've been relatively successful on the creative front (like, more successful than probably 99% of creatives out there) and still aren't paying the bills, so that should tell you what lies down that path.
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Feb 1, 2024 00:32
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How do I ask this without giving out too much information? I work in power generation and transmission with experience in distribution, its a very small industry in terms of at or just above my level everyone knows each other. I'm pretty sure I've worked with or know some of the other goons in this field without knowing for sure. I'm looking at every option to get out of my current job where I've been underemployed for a while now but keeps me in the field. Without getting too specific think of my current job as a combo of relay and test, controls engineer, power tester, electrician, and so on. How do I move up to SME, professional test witness, or site manager type work. I'm tired of fixing the half assed work of these engineering firms for a a third what their site guys get paid for more hours than they work. These companies start with Bur.. McD..... , Dash..... , Qualit... , Sar.... & Lund... and they all suck to some degree or another because they gently caress up simple poo poo constantly. How can I be proactive, but profitably for me?
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Feb 1, 2024 05:37
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SpeedFreek posted:How do I ask this without giving out too much information? I work in power generation and transmission with experience in distribution, its a very small industry in terms of at or just above my level everyone knows each other. I'm pretty sure I've worked with or know some of the other goons in this field without knowing for sure. Do you work at the Utility and are dealing with consultant terribleness? I am not quite sure but sounds like yes. I guess I see two paths. Push to move up in your current org or go work for the B&Vs of the world. You will know your current org best and how possible that is. All the big power consultants are looking for bodies right now so that seems like an easy move if you want the money. The industry is generally booming on capital build out although I have heard of a few utilities makeing some cuts. I am 15 years in on the Transmission Line side and currently work at a large utility. Happy to DM if you want to.
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Feb 1, 2024 07:58
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Ham Equity posted:If you want a job that is personally fulfilling in an industry you feel passionate about, stick with games and academia. If you want a job that is going to pay you enough to live and allow you time to pursue your passions outside of work, get a job as a Jira monkey in government or at a company that does boring poo poo (manufacturing, finance, defense work if you must). As was recommended, go to the resume thread, they will show you how to bullshit up your resume to properly express your Jira bona fides. I promise you you're far more competent than you think you are. I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm seeing people at the tip-top of their game in my field (like, undisputed Steven Spielberg levels of creative success) and they're barely making it work. The Spiders Georg success outlier in my field is doing well but they still make less money than like, your average middle class office worker. I'd love to keep doing this but I think I'm realizing that even aiming for The Best means you're never gonna make, like, Normal People Money You're all making me super hopeful with this Jira stuff though, I'm definitely thinking getting my resume spiffed up in that direction while the games/publishing industry Titanics for the next 3-4 years is an excellent idea. (And that way I can build up a safety net when I inevitably lose it and go back to working in entertainment). My passion outside of work is pretty much making games and traveling, so in a dream world I'd just get paid more to do my job, but I definitely wouldn't mind being a Jira monkey to pay bills so I can go back to working my dream job eventually  Chewbecca posted:By funded, do you get a salary? Or is it all the other costs of the game? edit: realized I never answered this! No salary, but it spans your senior/half your junior year, so the idea is by graduation your game's got a solid company structure and you can continue work (salaried/paid) after graduation on the same title or future titles, or you'll get snapped up by a company based on that final project (I think 1/3rd of my graduating class ended up running their own game studio afterwards, which is nuts).
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Feb 1, 2024 16:49
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My org within a Large Engineering Organization did layoffs recently, some of which included managers... and so now the IC:Manager ratio is 14:1. In order to reach what I assume is the ideal ratio of 6:1 (because 6 engineers for a Scrum team is the standard), they would need to double the number of Managers. So, there's an opportunity there and I'm wondering if I should raise my hand to try it. Since the tech industry isn't looking good due to rising interest rates, I wonder how my layoff-ability would be affected between switching from the IC track to the Manager track. Also, stereotypically people with high compensation ratios are the prime targets for layoffs... but I can't know what my compensation ratio is, and so I wonder how that'd change if I switched tracks as well. (edit: I've seen almost everybody who makes that transition get a promotion as they make the transition, and so it could be a shortcut to climb up to the next pay band) Does anyone have any strong opinions about making that transition in the current economic environment of today? Or is the economy a non-factor when it comes to individual career paths in the tech industry? (edit: the general advice is that I should stay on the IC track for as long as I can, and so that's my default position... but I see an obvious opportunity, and I'm not sure if I should/want to take it) Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 20:47
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Unless you really want to be a manager and know why you want to do it, I advise against it. Being a manager is not a promotion it is an entirely different job and skill set. Your day to day and the metrics you are evaluated on will be entirely different. I tried it because I felt a little stuck in my job and wanted a "promotion" not because I actually wanted to be a manager. It was a bad fit and what I should have done was look elsewhere for better IC opportunities. Which I did a year and a half later, back to IC elsewhere for more money and better work. But if you do actually want to be a manager, then go for it. But IME there's always opportunity because there's always a shortage of good EMs. At multiple companies it's basically been an open invitation because so few ICs want to do it or stick with it after realizing what the job actually is. edit: after writing this I realize this is the general career advice thread not the software-specific one, and my bias is in software/tech that has an actual career-long IC ladder with a high ceiling that doesn't force you into management if you want to make more money. And that is definitely not the case in all industries so take that with a grain of salt I guess. Guinness fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Feb 1, 2024 |
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Feb 1, 2024 22:12
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I don't work for a utility but as a vendor rep at a lot of different utilities, we seem to do a lot more than the other vendor reps I've worked with. The biggest handicap I have is no 4 yr degree and no PE license, what I do have is 17 years of experience with 8 of it in the field.
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Feb 1, 2024 22:59
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SpeedFreek posted:I don't work for a utility but as a vendor rep at a lot of different utilities, we seem to do a lot more than the other vendor reps I've worked with. The biggest handicap I have is no 4 yr degree and no PE license, what I do have is 17 years of experience with 8 of it in the field. Maybe consider the Mortenson, keweit, quanta, myr of the world? Sounds like you could def work as a lead of their field forces executing jobs. No license, no PE will make the big consulting firms and some utilities a together sell. Love Stole the Day posted:My org within a Large Engineering Organization did layoffs recently, some of which included managers... and so now the IC:Manager ratio is 14:1. I went through this 7 years ago. I was 9 years into engineering and a manager opportunity was available. The role was mostly people management but high authority on scope, schedule, and cost development and approval. I have pulled quick teams together to develop multi $2B projects. I rarely do any actual engineering though. At the time I was interested in the role and although I was not done with engineering (hell was in the middle of one of the best projects I ever did) I had to see what it would be like. Ultimately it has been great. lovely at times, approving expenses and timesheets isn't a blast, but I am glad I did it. So if you are interested in what management brings there is no good time, take the opportunity if you have it. If you just want money and title it will probably be a drag and you will want out 6-12 months later.
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Feb 2, 2024 05:17
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Is anyone here a GIS Analyst or ever has been one? In particular, did you transition to more of a developer role at some point to make more money? I like my easy GIS job, but there's nowhere to go and the best I can probably hope for are the 1% or 2% raises I get every two years or so. I know some python, and enjoy it, and maybe could use that as a starting point to jumping to a developer career, but it's everything else that is a bit of a mystery. I've been told "learn AWS", "learn Javascript", "learn .NET" and I could cobble together this and that together from online resources or community college courses, but what's the priority of these and what do they add up to? Would definitely like to see what a successful path from GIS to developer looks like.
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Feb 5, 2024 21:22
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So I haven't and no one I hired that I recall came from a GIS background, but I hire lots of people as developers that are coming from other careers and I have some knowledge of what goes into GIS. Generally, the first thing is there is no "1 ideal path" and I'd generally suggest building up skills and a portfolio based on what's interesting to you and what skills you have. An engaged and impressive python developer is going to land a job a lot faster than a reluctant and unimpressive JS developer. GIS is a nice background to come out of as you presumably have some general technical acumen, you have domain knowledge that could be useful, and you've proven you can handle yourself in a productive environment. So that's great! To get hired as a developer, you need to have certain skills to qualify for the common entry-level jobs and you need to stand out amongst the many other people who are trying to break in. A CS degree is great, but it's probably not worth your time at this point. A bootcamp is a good middle ground and can provide some really nice opportunities. Doing an entirely self-taught bootstrapping is possible but is (imo) the hardest route. The next thing is deciding what you want to target. I'm being extremely reductive, but for new folks generally you target Front End (making useful UI), Back End (making useful server-side stuff), DevOps (Making sure stuff runs) and a few smaller areas like UI/UX (Less programming, more mocking up what things should look like), Machine Learning (BE subset but more Math), or Data/Datascience/Database. This is where I tell people to find some free online courses and see what they like doing. FE is usually "easiest" but it's a crowded field, BE takes more effort to get up to snuff but once you do junior roles are "typically" easier to find, the other subsets are more niche. Once you know what you want to do you will either want to do a bootcamp or start teaching yourself to get yourself to a level where you can do a job. Either way you will need a portfolio of projects you can talk intelligently about, for a self-taught person the bar is way higher and typically I'd like to see something that's actually being used widely or being actively sold for that kind of person. A bootcamp person I'd usually want a couple projects, 1 that was well polished and 1 that was maybe a bit more of a stretch technically (even if it wasn't 100% yet). That's it in a nutshell. Coming from GIS is a nice point but it's unlikely you'll find someone to pay you big money on the hope you figure stuff out so you need to do that work upfront.
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Feb 5, 2024 22:01
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Thank you for the really thorough advice! That’s the clearest explanation of a developer career path I’ve read yet. One thing I have seen elsewhere though, is that the backend focus (or is it devOps? Either way, more so than front end) requires more python. Do you think that’s true? Also, do you know if a “cloud developer” is similar to what you describe as a backend position? There’s a bunch of AWS courses Ive been thinking of taking, and I wonder how they all fit into this developer categorization.
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Feb 6, 2024 00:28
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