Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
devoir
Nov 16, 2007
Personal anecdote regarding the whole quitting thing: I got shunted around as a pawn in politics between three managers, wasn't happy with the industry I'd moved sideways into and found a job with a company that sounded really interesting.

The offer came through while all three managers were away (on separate business trips) while I was holding the fort. I called each of them, said that a formal resignation letter would be in their inboxes by 8PM that night, and all appeared to be good.

That is, until they started fighting over which manager would have my remaining two weeks of work. Ended up blowing up on a teleconference between two of them (A and B), while I was in the office of B. I was told later that the entire floor could hear A's five minute long rant from the closed office, via the speaker phone.

I walked straight out, went to HR and got immediately released from my two week notice period. I've since heard some of the things that B spread about me and I'm sure it'd make it incredibly difficult to get a job anywhere he had knowledge of.

I guess my point is even if you do everything right, you have to figure out where the line is where you just are not going to go to the wall so you don't burn bridges.

----

On a happier note after 18 months with this company I am relocating to drive the expansion of our US operations. I look back at my professional life up until this point and I'm reasonably happy how things turned out. This is taking into account the situation above, as well as being made redundant at another company, etc.

I'm currently paid well, and the drop in cost of living will be a tremendous boon. All my benefits will transition across and I've always wanted to live and work in the US (although I have other options than this job due to my fiance) so I'm already ahead on a number of fronts. That said, I'm being paid for my current responsibilities and there's still a lack of clarity as to what my new responsibilities will be beyond "Do great things!" I've spent the last 18 months with my foot all the way on the accelerator in both my work and pressure on management to increase my pay/benefits, as I came in to to fill a position that I was qualified for five years ago with an eye to transitioning to kind of where I am now.

On one hand I have a lot of freedom to define my role, on the other it looks like I'm probably going to have to suck it up for three to six months before I can make a case for my next pay rise.

My company's not your standard corporate beast, but I guess the same general principles to getting an outcome apply; make an unassailable argument and reduce friction so that it is easier to make it happen than stand in the way. All upper management exists back at head office, which is one of the reasons why I'm worried about having to make a case for this remotely (or wait until I have a trip back to the mothership). I'd like to at least set an agenda for the coming discussion now, before I leave. It's definitely an expectation on all sides that there will be a serious conversation about change in remuneration due to the new responsibilities, but everyone's dealing with so much stuff I've barely had a five minute conversation about my relocation costs, let alone salary.

Anyone have thoughts?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

zmcnulty posted:

If you're going for less than a year chances are you'll be an expatriate, so I would expect your salary remains largely unchanged but basically everything should be covered (lowering your expenses). Plane ticket, moving expenses, housing, cost of living allowance, etc.

If it's longer, they might request you transfer to your company's US entity. So you'll have a chance to negotiate because you'll need to sign a new contract and all that.

Sorry, I knew I forgot something. It's permanent, with a new wholly-owned entity. The company's not really the type that requires me to wait for a new contract for a change in negotiated benefits/salary, but you make a good point that when I transfer legal employers it'd make sense to draw the line there if it hadn't already been dealt with.

My responsibilities are different going forward, it's definitely not a case of doing what I did at head office at the new office.

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

Ragingsheep posted:

Anyone have advice on working overseas? I know the best way would be for my existing employer to shift me to another office but that's unlikely to happen. Looking at the US or UK mainly.

Unfortunately I don't have citizenship for either of those countries.

Where are you at in your career? Which industry/field?

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

Ragingsheep posted:

I do business consulting work on banking related projects for a boutique consultancy in Australia.

Australians qualify for a separate classification of employer-sponsored visas (E3) in the US. Without knowing a huge amount about your field, it sounds like something that you could convince a firm to cover if you've got skill-set and experience they want. Start networking, and if you want a recommendation for a lawyer I'd suggest going with http://www.mccownevans.com/. Kelly McCown is excellent - aside from my personal case and other various accomplishments, she was the first immigration lawyer to handle a case where an eSports athlete was brought in under the Professional Athlete visa. The costs aren't particularly high; I believe it'd be about mid-five digits.

I almost went down the E3 path, but circumstances changed and I didn't up needing an employer-sponsored visa. Unsure about the UK as I was never interested enough to investigate.

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

Gothmog1065 posted:

I guess the main quandary is my job history. It's not good, and I don't want to appear a job hopper. I've applied already regardless using one of the strangest application systems. I'm about to put this on my resume/linkedin. Just trying to be better about job history.

Have you been at your current job for 2 years or 2 months? Unclear from your post.

If I read your previous post right, prior to this job you've had one six month break, a 2.5 year stint and a six month stint. That's not bad job history unless the hiring manager/HR are a bunch of backwards folk.

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

Gothmog1065 posted:

Yes. Basically it was 1.5 ish years at a small time computer shop, 2.5 years at big ISP, 6 months at small time computer shop again (Big mistake), 6 months unemployment, current job at 2 months.

Yeah, you're going to be fine unless someone is grasping for straws. The only way this could become a 'bad situation' is if you were let go or quit, and then were job hunting for another six months without current employment.

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

Kim Jong Il posted:

I have doubled my salary in slightly over 2 years and I'm still dumb founded by it.

Not to be a poo poo, but as someone who's done this, it probably comes down to you screwing yourself early on because you didn't know better.

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

signalnoise posted:


So office work but not in an office.

I'm looking for some kind of system I can engage with to keep me on task essentially, which is difficult when I'm assigning my own tasks.

There are lots of tools based around various methodologies. Look at Trello as an example of kanban, maybe?

devoir
Nov 16, 2007
Caveat: I've never worked in security, but I've worked closely with security teams through a lot of my career, both at the companies I've worked at, and responding to questions from security teams at other companies.

You said "security/antivirus" as an area of interest - managing an antivirus deployment is not a role I've ever seen in the broad spectrum of companies I've worked for and with.

Security can be a lot of things - you can go full nerd with networking security and spend your entire time in logs and terminals, you could be focused on vendor evaluations for a large company, etc. The less technical the role, the less valuable you are generally going to be and the more boring paperwork and regulation wrangling involved.

Here's an example of an Application Security Engineer role for a SaaS company I used to work for - https://www.jobie.com/s/4JkX2BDLAj

As you would imagine, good companies want good people with solid qualifications. Be prepared to slog through a lot of bureaucratic bullshit in entry-level security jobs unless you get super lucky, while you build up the experience and credentials to jump into a 'cool' company. Modern security engineers need to be comfortable getting their hands dirty with the details, which means developer skills.

Try figuring out how to answer the question "Why do you want to work in security?" Replace "security" with anything in "IT".

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

extra row of teeth posted:

Thanks for the informative post!

What you said about people wanting qualifications is pretty similar to other industries I've looked into. Of course there's the ugly loop of "need experience to get into this entry-level job that you need to take in order to get experience". For that reason, I'm willing to accept peanuts/lovely jobs for a while. What I really need to do, if IT works, is get my resume focused on that instead of random desk monkey bullshit jobs like I have been doing previously. (And honestly my standards aren't that high...30k would make me happy. I haven't made more than $15 an hour yet.)

Does developer skills mean programming? That's the one thing that scares me, to be honest. I'm more of the creative/artist type, hence the Bachelor's Degree in art, and absolute poo poo garbage at math so if programming is anything like math doing it would be a nightmare.

Pardon, I wrote my last post in a bit of a hurry and didn't communicate everything I meant to.

I see security as particularly bad with regards to the entry-level experience because it's such a low population specialization within technology roles, generally. Take, for example, technical support roles. Often times you can work your way into a tech support engineer role with a good company as long as you have the right aptitude and have made a decent showing of trying to learn relevant technology on your own terms. Most companies with dedicated security staff can't afford to screw around with low impact headcount so you're most likely going to be a peon in a terrible company that isn't going to be accommodating to your interests of working from home, flexibility, etc.

Basically, the aspects of a technology role that sound appealing to you are pretty unlikely to materialize in the short to medium term (in my opinion) with a focus on security. That's me done being a negative nancy, let's try to skin the cat with another approach. There are lots of ways to get into a tech-orientated role (within a tech company, even) without being a coder (I'm an example of this).

Let's run through some quick assumptions based on what you've posted thus far.

You are okay at dealing with people. You're not shy about hard work or paperwork. You're not particularly enamored of a highly technical role, you just see a tech gig as a way of bettering your life and career. You are more of a creative type. You don't have previous history of hard technical skills (e.g. coding or equivalent).

Roles that you might not have considered but might have a good opportunity to transition into, within the tech org at a company, or a tech company overall:
Development UX/UI.
Technical writing.
Executive assistant (specifically within a tech company or org) - the executive assistants for the product orgs at companies I've worked at are very well taken care of and appreciated.
Project management.
Recruiting.
HR.
Marketing (either creative or strategic).

Some of these are more likely to give you the flexibility you're ultimately looking for, but they're all solid options for building a career that can be tied into the technology sector and the great benefits and opportunities connected to it, without needing to be a coder or technical rockstar equivalent.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply