Career Path Thread: Money is happiness

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Career Path Thread: Money is happiness

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ May 28, 2013 16:51

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 20:00

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Ultimate Mango posted:

Unless you totally misread the interaction you described, he was opening the door for you to have the conversation. Just as he said he would people like you, you can say something like you will miss working for him, and would be open to future possibilities to work together in the future.

If your relationship with him is good enough, just straight up have the conversation 'is there room for me on your new team?'

Leadership: This can mean many things to many people, and has the bonus of being rather contextual. In the military a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) could be viewed as a position of leadership. You are right in that you can be an Individual Contributor with Leadership but no management. A guy on my team used to have this at the bottom of his email, and is totally relevant: "Leadership is a position of Responsibility, not Authority."

Management: You are responsible for, accountable for, and have authority over a team. You make decisions about hiring and firing (in most cases at least, and the latter usually involves HR). Management requires a completely new and additional set of skills from being an individual contributor on the team you manage. If you are getting an MBA, you might be getting some of those skills, or you might not. There are many, many bad managers out there. Don't be one of them. Learn the craft of management and seek to be the best boss your employees have ever had. That was my goal becoming a manager, and it has served me well, creating a very loyal team who is generally happy and will do crazy hard work if needed even without being asked.

Consulting: Clients pay you to either tell them what to do or do things for them. I have done both sorts, and it can be fun and rewarding and challenging and also drive you batshit insane. Until you are a credible expert in your field, expect to be chasing billable hours doing work for clients who don't care about what you have to say and just want to do whatever task they are paying $250 and hour for you to do. If you can get enough experience and make a name for yourself, then you can actually do higher level consulting and guidance and get brought in to really make changes for a client and tell them all the ways they have been doing things wrong and how to fix it. Perhaps the holy grail here is to become a 'Management Consultant.' I haven't met one in Urban Planning, doesn't mean they don't exist though.

Thank you for this clarification! I'm still in the process of mapping my career out. It seems certain that management has the highest expected value in earning potential. Although management consultant sounds interesting if it's out there in my field. I'll research more!

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 04:32

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Jun 6, 2013 01:48

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

I'm in a flex program that allows night time clases.

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/06/what_inspiring_leaders_do.html

HBR posted:

What do top executives want from their leaders? IBM recently asked this question of 1,700 CEOs in 64 countries. The three leadership traits that most mattered were the ability to focus intensely on customer needs, the ability to collaborate with colleagues � and the ability to inspire.

Our own extensive 360� feedback data, which we've gathered from just under 50,000 leaders who have been assessed by approximately a half-million colleagues, strongly confirms the importance of inspiring leadership. Of the 16 leadership competencies we most frequently measure, it is clearly the one that stands out. In our data, the ability to inspire creates the highest levels of employee engagement and commitment. It is what most powerfully separates the most effective leaders from the average and least-effective leaders. And it is the factor most subordinates identify when asked what they would most like to have in their leader.

...

Other things we identified were somewhat less specific and less tangible. These inspirational leaders were more adept at making emotional connections with their subordinates, for instance. They were better at establishing a clear vision. They were more effective in their communication and willing to spend more time communicating. They were ardent champions of change. They were perceived as effective role models within the organization.

Our data send a clear message: In this case, more is more. That is, the more of these behaviors a leader exhibited, the more inspirational that leader is perceived to be.
...

Although merely 3% took the expert approach, perhaps more surprising is that only 12% went the enthusiast route. Each approach was equally effective, our data indicate, but leaders who were able to master multiple approaches did significantly increase their effectiveness.

Learning to be Inspirational. Finally, we turned our attention to the question of whether leaders could learn to become more inspiring. To find out we did another study of 882 executives from data collected over the last three years, who were measured on the 16 different competencies and encouraged to focus efforts on improving one of them. Focusing on the 310 who chose to improve their ability to inspire others we found that as a group they made impressive strides � moving from the 42nd percentile (that is, below average) to the 70th percentile. This is a statistically significant positive gain, and compelling evidence that when leaders use the right approach they can learn to become more inspiring.

In other words, with awareness, good feedback, and a plan of development, leaders are able to improve this most important of all leadership competencies.

Inspiring others is a comparative advantage of mine and I'd like to research more. Does anybody have any text recommendations? I'm tempted to read a bunch of biographies of successful inspirational people. My initial thoughts on inspiring others:

1. Be competent at your own duties.
2. Build Rapport with those you wish to inspire.
3. Maintain Positive and Energetic aura.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2013 20:02

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Ultimate Mango posted:

Ninja double post for content:

I got promoted to senior manager

This means I keep my existing team as well as get a new manager and his team as a second line manager. Developing this new guy, who just got promoted to manager, should be a lot of fun.

Now I just need to start being a visible leader to other managers as well and hopefully get tapped for a directorship when one becomes available _{_{perhaps when the poles have finished melting}}

Congratulations! That's awesome and I'm very happy for you! Honestly the vibe from this thread is that you're really on top of your game, I suspect there are many more managerial positions in the future.

And thanks for the book recommendations! I knew "First Break All the Rules" was a worthwhile text from reading this thread and the other look great.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2013 22:13

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Dec 9, 2014 08:23

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

simplefish posted:

How about civil engineering companies? My local one would be Arup, but I'm sure you can find more like them

Yeah at this point I've been looking at Architecture & Engineering Firms, I'll keep on the lookout

# ¿ Dec 11, 2014 05:37

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

I have also heard only great things about code academy / code bootcamp.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Dec 21, 2014 22:58

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

poo poo, depending on how my job search goes in the near future, I might do it anyway.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2014 23:00

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

The in-person thing can be useful. One of these programs offered food and even the ability to crash at the school. They don't have dorms or anything, but there was one girl in my friends program that straight up slept on the couch in the academy more than five times a week. Totally kosher.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2014 00:09

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

What's wrong with SV and the tech sector? Isn't it a really relaxed and free form work environment?

# ¿ Dec 23, 2014 08:50

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Jan 13, 2015 23:49

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 02:01

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Thank you for the response! PM Sent.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2015 21:32

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Life is fun

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 08:20

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Interesting

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Aug 14, 2015 07:10

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Aug 14, 2015 07:32

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Hmmm

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Feb 15, 2016 18:25

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Jul 14, 2017 06:04

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Dik Hz posted:

Pretty much. If they read what you wrote here, you'd probably be blacklisted for yanking them around. Of course, if they read what you wrote here, they'd also know your user name is JIZZ DENOUEMENT which might also raise questions. Why not just tell them the truth: You're more interested in the other position and they should reach out to you when they're looking to fill that position. You applied for the current opening because you were interested in learning more about the current position. But the numbers just didn't add up.

This would still be yanking them around. I'd still be communicating that I applied to a job I had no intention of accepting.

"Hi I applied for this position, then used your HR and management time to arrange and conduct an interview so I could learn more about your firm so I can apply to a position that the public doesn't even know exists yet, that will maybe exist in the future."

e: I answered my own question, I won't waste their time. I will wait for the position I want to become available.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jul 14, 2017

# ¿ Jul 14, 2017 16:32

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Wink wink

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Jul 23, 2017 09:38

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Most of the bootcamp value comes from 2 components; the network, and the effort you put in... and coding bootcamp quality seems to vary wildly. I have heard some great success stories from bootcamps in the tech areas of SF/Seattle/Austin. For example; https://adadevelopersacademy.org/ which gives you a straight up internship at a firm while in bootcamp, then you graduate and ostensibly make bank there.

However, I've also heard of some poo poo ones. That halfway through a year announced they were shutting down at the end, which means no network.

With that said, I live in one of the tech hubs and fresh out of undergrad kids are still getting $70k+ starting positions. I'd assume bootcamp kids are in that same neighborhood. The tech bubble may slowdown when capital investment loses their boner for startups, but there's always going to be practical jobs because coding is an extremely useful toolbox of skills that translates to essentially every industry.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2017 00:40

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Pryor on Fire posted:

Bootcamp kids are going to be more like $30-$40k salaries in most areas, except for the one we had who turned out amazing and became our CTO within five years I think they started him at like $180K because he interviewed at facebook and that's what they offered.

What? Where?

# ¿ Aug 2, 2017 03:36

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

KillHour posted:

If you're not worried about this when you take a new job, you're overqualified. The only way to progress in your career is to take on things that you don't know how to do. If you already knew how to do them, how would that be progress?

Every job I've ever taken made me nervous as hell. It's a good thing.

This is an excellent post and mindset

# ¿ Feb 21, 2018 07:23

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

KillHour posted:

If you're not worried about this when you take a new job, you're overqualified. The only way to progress in your career is to take on things that you don't know how to do. If you already knew how to do them, how would that be progress?

Every job I've ever taken made me nervous as hell. It's a good thing.

Did you lie on your resume/interview that you had the skills you didn't know how to do?

Interviewer "can you do x?"
You "I have done x to such excellence that Osiris, god of the dead and ruler of the underworld, personally commended my labor"
You [Internally] "I have not done x"

I'm being flippant but am also genuinely curious on how you handled that.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2018 07:56

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

KillHour posted:

"What experience do you have with x skill?" "Here is how I've used that skill effectively in a different manner at my current position."
"Have you used x technology?"
"I have a good theoretical understanding of x technology and have hands-on experience with y and z related technologies"

I don't know where you work where they only hire people that already have the exact job they're hiring for, but I imagine they have a lot of open positions.

What industry are you in? Again, genuinely curious.

I get what you're saying. On my cover letters and interviews I'll state "I have a good theoretical understanding of [grilling burgers[ because I have years of experience [grilling hot dogs[." But ultimately they will just hire somebody who has experience [grilling burgers[. And I don't see why they wouldn't.

Mainly I'm just stoked to hear that sometimes there are success stories of this.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Dec 23, 2019

# ¿ Feb 23, 2018 00:24

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

^I sure hope so, because I'm not even getting through to the stage where I can communicate that.

KillHour posted:

I have a pretty senior role at a software company in the security/risk management space. My background is in IT and Physical Security. How do you think people progress in their careers if they're never allowed to take on new things? Not everybody is content doing the same job they went to school for until they die (Disclaimer: I dropped out of school, so I'm just assuming that part).

Personally, what I've noticed that gave me the leg up is that I can quickly learn and then explain complicated things to other people that don't have a lot of depth in that subject. If you can explain technical/specialized things to a generalist/executive audience in a way that lets them make good decisions based on that information, you will have people offering you jobs. Generally over the drinks they're buying you. And that's the key - have one core thing you're really really good at that is in demand, and people will hire you for that and won't care if you flip burgers or hotdogs or pancakes.

I think you have a distorted view of hiring and the market because you work in software. Add to that, you are pretty high up the seniority ladder. Which implies you're older and got into the market when it was blowing up.

Obviously people want to develop new skills and grow professionally. But from the hiring side perspective, what value does it have to bring in somebody who wants to learn those skills versus somebody who is already good at those skills?

e: I should just give up my passion and learn to program. Most of my friends are already in that field making 6 figures and have offered to teach.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Feb 24, 2018

# ¿ Feb 24, 2018 00:22

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

C-Euro posted:

I was talking to my buddy the other day and learned that his mother-in-law is in the industry that I want to be in (food/food science if that matters), and after introducing me to her she's agreed to get on the phone with me later this week for some mentoring. While she's not quite local enough to be able to give me a job, she did spend a lot of time working in this industry in the area where I currently live. However I do have a genuine interest in this industry having worked in it in my previous job, and I want this conversation to be more than "can you give me a job or introduce me to someone else who can".

If you were able to have an open-ended conversation with a local veteran of your chosen industry, what would you ask them? How they got there, who the major players are in the area, what are the currently-prized skills, what direction(s) the industry is headed in, ???

I do a lot of informal interviews. I went in with the mindset of learning about :

1. The contact's person story
2. New Skills/classes/certifications - to make myself a more attractive candidate
3. New Organizations/firms/people - to find new resources and jobs - :siren:

I highly recommend asking about new firms. While many jobs are posted on aggregate sites, some jobs will only be posted on the company website. Which means it's harder to find unless you are actively checking those organizational websites. For example, I have a spreadsheet of over 150 cool, smallish firms in my region that I've collected largely from informational interviews and blind googling.

In terms of the structure of the professional interview, I usually commit the first 66% on point 1, then the last 33% on points 2 & 3.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2018 00:12

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Web Graphics guy.

Look at positions called Public Information Officers (or similar) at local governments. Not a lot of communications people apply to those jobs because typically they are about technical stuff in a specific niche of government. But the governments themselves typically prefer communications people that don�t actually know a lot about the field because they want someone who translate the technical jargon into stuff actual people will understand.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2019 16:47

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

I need to take some time and sit down and figure out what I�m going to do.

Desperately want to stay in the public sector (maybe do NPOs). But I need more compensation and need something more tangible to my areas of interest. Despite not really having direct experience with some of the required skills.

I guess I just need to apply anyway if I can do 66% of the stuff, have a proven track record of learning things quickly, and then hope somebody takes a flyer on me.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2019 19:10

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

A couple I can through extracurricular training. And I will.

Not so much through volunteering or my current position.

Although I�ve found that for specific skills, jobs don�t really care about training or education, they put enormously more weight on job experience with that skill.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2019 19:23

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Also need to reach out to my professional network / mentors to brainstorm paths to success and possible resources.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2019 19:27

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Baronash posted:

I have a BA in Outdoor Education, and I was pretty lucky to land a year-round position with (for my industry) good pay and benefits. I mostly enjoy what I do, but I pretty much give up all of my time from early March to late October, which is why I'm posting from work at 11:30 on a Saturday. Short term, I'm probably just going to shotgun applications to everything in the area. Longer-term though, I'd like to make a transition into sustainability work (site planning, corporate/community sustainability initiatives, or waste reduction/remediation). Is it a bad idea to consider pursuing a graduate degree (environmental management) to get closer to this goal? From the research I've done so far, it seem like architecture and engineering -neither of which I have the head for- are solidly represented in the field, with a smaller but still sizable chunk coming from a wide array of backgrounds. I'm nervous about hitching my wagon to another "dream job," and similarly nervous that I won't be able to do what I want without the kind of technical background that I don't have.

get an mba, there's a bunch of conventional tracts like operations or marketing that now include lots of emphasis on sustainability

and that way you will actually get paid

# ¿ Sep 30, 2019 00:14

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

I know a bunch of people who went to lower-than-t20 mba programs and got great, high paying jobs.

The key is, as always, network and pick a program that's located in a high population / strong economy area.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2019 02:31

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

The MBA has nothing to do with meritocracy but it helps leverage you into a position to become one of those rich assholes.

lol, just lol if you think those ivy league Mba ceos provide any value to society, or hell even their firm. It�s all a game to get the paper.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2019 01:42

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 20:00

JIZZ DENOUEMENT: Oct 3, 2012; STRIKE!

Tell me how to get elected to the United States House of Representatives.

Link your best resources, my friends.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2020 01:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Career Path Thread: Money is happiness