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Depending on the company, VP, number 3 could also just be blowing smoke up his rear end to get more work for a reward that may/may not come at some point in the indeterminate future. I hate to be so cynical but I've seen people take stuff like that to heart and work double for half their value for years waiting to be "good enough" for the next level.
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Feb 14, 2013 22:35
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i read the HBR feed on google reader every morning because its really interesting. Maybe I'll go ahead and subscribe and leave issues laying around my desk "strategically".
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Feb 18, 2013 17:04
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I've posted similar questions before in the IT thread but this seems more appropriate for my question: I'm currently a business systems analyst, ~ 3 years out of school on my second job, been working for 2.5 years. The company I work for is cool, fairly flexible hours/schedule, I like the people, management is good to great (as far as I can tell) and I think we have an exciting product in a boring industry. The problem is that at heart I am not an analyst. I am a communicator consensus builder extrovert kind of guy. Sometimes, I come home from work really sad because I've had 3 conversations in 9 hours and feel so lonely despite sitting in a room full of people. When I graduated, the economy was bad but I managed to grab a job that was more technically oriented than I was really looking for because it was what I could get. I am pretty sure I am doing a good job here, my boss complimented my attention to detail and analytic ability and moved me over to another team that needed heavy excel monkeying. They had two temps quit or get dropped and one full time guy walk because he couldn't/wouldn't handle the work so I knew they were worried. I told him I'd do it because I'm a team guy and happy to put my skills where they're needed but did mention its not really where I want to be longterm. Its kind of like that SEAL thing, I jumped into paint scraping because someones got to do it. My problem is that I'm afraid I'm losing control of my career narrative and will end up on a path I don't want to be on, just because I can do things apparently many others can't or won't. I don't want to leave my current company and don't mind digging the ditches for a while but I don't want to be "the data guy" my whole life.
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Feb 20, 2013 21:58
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Why do you still work there? If you are excellent at your job and they're jerking you around, I hope you're at least actively looking for something else.
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Mar 13, 2013 21:29
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Your company has a big part to play in all this. My last place underpaid everyone by 25% or worse and had no idea of the true market value for their employees, so they would pretty much laugh off any raise requests because they honestly thought everyone was well compensated, until like 80% of the department left within 6 months.
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Mar 19, 2013 16:07
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huhwhat posted:Option 1: I have no advice specifically but don't do number three. Morally, its a dick move and hangs your employer out to dry and practically it will bite you in the rear end in the future.
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Apr 18, 2013 22:05
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take the job and use your shut-in lifestyle to save money and really focus on doing the best job you can at work. Learn to be comfortable with yourself internally instead of being defined by your location or friends or whatever else(not a knock on you, just that most people ARE dependent on that stuff and never know it). Maybe do a hobby you've wanted to try for a while but could never really get into due to social obligations. Then move in two years.
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Jun 7, 2013 21:51
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I used to list my excel skills as average because I assumed everyone knew how to use vlookup and shortcuts and all those kinds of formulas. A recruiter I worked with said "haha no put master you're deeply underselling" So if you're any good at all at least out advanced.
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Jun 30, 2013 23:54
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if you're expecting a raise before even a year you're nuts.
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Jul 8, 2013 22:23
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At my first job, I was an analyst making 40k with 1 year experience steering software changes to a ~24 million dollars a quarter system. This was in addition to my actual job description which was basically sql monkey. I was doing the work of 2 people, one of which would be 2x my experience and 2.5x my salary at a sane company, it was pretty nuts. I did it for two years, received no extra money or even recognition. When I decided to get a new job, I had 2 full offers in two weeks for substantial pay bumps, on top of the like 3 recruiter calls I got in a day for kinda blah positions. Your first job or two is pretty much always going to be your employer getting the better end of the deal and they are probably never going to fix that. This is especially true if you're ambitious and willing to take on more. The good news is that you can probably take all the experience and burden and leverage it into what you're actually worth. The bad news is that it will probably not happen at your current employer.
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Jul 9, 2013 15:54
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those requirements are bullshit tacked on by HR or just fishing for a super great applicant that prob doesn't exist (purple unicorn). You can get one of those jobs and do very well if you've already conquered an engineering degree. -Learn basic SQL. Install a free version on your home PC and make a DB of giant monsters or your favorite baseball players or whatever. -Learn enough XL to pivot table and vlookup. -for specific tools, google what they are and start thinking of equivalent things you've done. Like I've never used Salesforce but I've done CRM through a free google app (and on excel). -when they ask if you know [specific software] answer that: 1) I have never used that tool, but I know it does X and I've done X using tool Y [your story goes here] 2)I have not used it, what do you use it for? Then after they answer: Is there a freeware or trial version I could take a look at tonight? There now you've handled that question without stalling the conversation and demonstrated initiative plus willingness to learn which is what they really want anyway. Most places asking for a business/math major would be happy to take an engineer. Just make sure your resume really highlights your ability to use business tools and "get" a business environment. EDIT: the pay might suck and it might be a poo poo company but once you've done 2 years you've got a ton more options that will all pay more money. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 16:37
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Probably, but no point dwelling on the past. Saying I couldn't do it then, I can't do it now is never going to help.
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Jul 31, 2013 17:38
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is that a social skills thing? Or not getting business ideas? I guess after working as a BA and with other BAs with a variety of backgrounds it seems like the skills needed to do the job are pretty general. Amend what I said about that, but I bet those quant heavy roles pay better.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:32
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it may be worth your $ to go to the Resume to Interview guy and work with him to hammer out a resume to match official job titles based on what you do. They'd be well positioned to help you define your job really well.
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Aug 7, 2013 20:02
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Natron posted:I've been tossing around the idea of starting my own business doing renders and models for architectural firms for a while, but I think I would have to supplement that with another, less intense job. Be careful with this, a lot of places are outsourcing to dirt cheap 3rd world countries. It is prob not a good idea due to communication and quality problems but its hard for management to resist paying 75% less even when its costing 200% more in hidden costs. However, if/when they realize this you might be in a good spot as a local talent so maybe it'll work out since inshoring seems to be the rising trend. Thats not based on official numbers, just word on the street from friends in that industry complaining about their chinese renderers.
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Aug 16, 2013 21:11
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:You don't have Plat so I can't PM you but could you tell me a bit about what you did to transition? I'm interested in this as well.
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Sep 20, 2013 14:43
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Ultimate Mango posted:For me its not about pigeon-holing, its about skills and personalities. In general, the kind of person who can make seven figures every year selling complex solutions to big companies is very different from the kind of person who can convince everyone from developers and admins to the executive leaderships that the software we sell really works and can solve their problems. Could you elaborate on this? They seem like they'd be similar so interesting that they're not. For my part: I'm a Systems analyst but I still scratch my head on how the hell I ended up here. I have an MIS degree so I'm sort of technical but I've always leaned hard soft skills and struggled with math, although I do well with logic so I usually get along with technical types and can at least sit at the technical table. Ironically, I think selling myself got me a job I shouldn't have qualified for and then I've just rolled along from there. I'm mid-late twenties now though and kinda realizing I'm misaligned and want to fix it before I hate my life because I'm not exploiting my strengths. The fat paycheck is cool but I'm most interested in enjoying my job and feeling like I'm maximizing myself. My bosses have recognized my communication ability and have let me expand into a Project Manager type role, but Its not a full time change and I don't know if they'll ever let me transition fully out of analyst work. I keep kicking sales around in my head since I love presentations and I'd rather go to meetings all day than sit at my desk with excel and visual studios open, grinding away at a data problem. The hard part comes when I try to figure out how in the hell I can make that jump. Plus, this is all conjecture so I have no clue if I'd really enjoy it.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:09
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Ultimate Mango posted:Which would you rather do? Spend a year making phone calls trying to find someone interested in your solution, or learning how to present and demonstrate said solution and doing so for potential customers who are somewhat qualified? Interesting stuff. Obviously I'd rather not take a probable pay/lifestyle cut to start at the bottom of a sales position so parlaying sounds like the way to go. I'm just trying to figure out a way to take my kind of technical base to move into a more communication soft skill oriented field. To be honest, those problems yall name sound like something I can handle more easily than: "we have 27 unique fields for 12,000 entries and need to gather and sort all of them here is your excel sheet and headphones". It certainly does sound intimidating though trying to keep a constant sales pipeline running. I've floated this question previously and heard Product Owner/Product Manager would be a good fit but after looking for those positions, they seem to require a good deal more experience than I have, or a right time/place situation. I guess its normal to be frustrated in your twenties.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:38
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Finally, I can contribute to an answer: One thing to remember with excel is that you may find an answer that works, but there is a more elegant or quicker way to reach the same result. So don't stress if you're not getting the A+ solutions, as long as you're getting the desired results and learning to be faster/better next time you will have it down very soon.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:15
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excel skills also pop up everywhere, being able to say you know basic-intermediate excel functions opens a lot of entry level doors. I would also recommend you get very comfortable with hotkeys and avoid the mouse where you can. It takes some time but once you've got it down you can fly through stuff and look like a genius. keyrocket is a cool piece of software that helps you learn shortcuts by popping up reminders when you complete a task with the mouse you could have done with the keyboard. Their free trial is for 1 program so you can set it to excel and get to know the common shortcuts in a week or two for free. There may be a better solution and obviously make sure its OK for you install 3rd party software but I found getting that instant correction and reminder very effective in helping me learn.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:54
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Ultimate Mango posted:Have you thought about leaving the Big 4 and going into industry or a smaller firm? I have a friend that did this and she makes more money for far fewer hours and is pretty satisfied with life. I think its fairly expected that you do your time, get the CPA then get the hell out, at least thats what everyone in the field says when I've spoken to them. I've also noticed many high level managers started out the same way you are, and the big 4 alumni network seems very strong so you are among good company, my friend.
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Sep 26, 2013 03:54
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DemeaninDemon posted:The way I see it, they'll either promote me or I find something better. Which ever happens first. Pretty much all you can do.
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Oct 11, 2013 21:31
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quote:I'm not really sure how I could fit into an organization 100 HOGS AGREE posted:I know an absolutely absurd amount of information about energy generation, since it's been a big interest of mine for a long time and I love to yammer on about wind turbines and solar plants and nuclear reactors and poo poo. answered your own question. Go for it!
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Oct 29, 2013 19:50
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don't negotiate against yourself! Give it a shot and let them tell you you're not qualified.
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Nov 1, 2013 22:34
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obvious but: lookup competing firms and see if they have a spot for you? Assuming you want to stay in marketing.
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Nov 8, 2013 22:12
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Do you have any experience programming outside of the work setting? Did you used to enjoy it but have gotten burned out. I'm just thinking that maybe a change of scenery might rekindle your interest. You ARE an experienced programmer in that you have done real world work in a professional environment. That puts you way ahead of fresh grads that might totally fail to adjust to a real job. If you can bring your skills in more modern languages up to at least competent you'll get a job and probably a good one. However if you truly hate programming then none of this helps.
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Dec 25, 2013 21:51
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Mortanis posted:I have a basic knowledge of C# that isn't work related. I certainly used to enjoy programming, but I can't really tell if the job burned out that love fully or not. I won't really go into how horrific my job is, but 12 years being on call working 50 - 70 hours (unpaid overtime) with my last vacation 5 years ago, no server redundancy, no backup and a slew of other issues... yeah, it's hard to imagine continuing down this path. I'd really rather write, but the logical part of my brain says to pick up a new language and keep trucking on this path, even if I keep hating it. If you enjoyed it once, you might like it again given the right circumstances. You may just need a new environment and change of pace. It sounds like the company you're currently at is not running a top shop, you might find life a lot better somewhere else with a better approach and better treatment. Maybe picking up a small personal coding project will help you get some more skills and rekindle your interest. Or maybe look for open source or freelance projects that need small contributions. You might do that, say "nope" I really just don't like programming anymore and want to write, but at least you'll know its programming itself and not the lovely situation. I've seen hiring managers take older less innately talented/impressive whatever developers over younger more hot poo poo applicants because the older guys know about the real world and are usually better team players. We actually recently hired a guy as a dev that worked through most of his 20's on a factory floor and went back to school to get a CS degree. Also, If you write, you probably have well developed communication skills, which will take you farther than you may realize in a world of math people.
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Dec 26, 2013 19:18
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2-3 is the standard answer but poo poo you've only got one life and thats a really long time if you know you're not where you want to be or on the path to get there. If you don't like it for clear reasons, or better, you can clearly point to what you'd enjoy more, start building those skills as much as you can, and begin looking for those jobs now and articulate on interviews why you're moving so quickly. I think its pretty easy to spot a flake vs someone that just isn't a good fit for their current position.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:18
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I've been told that you should never mention you are interviewing because if you don't get that job (or even decide you don't want it) they're going to really wonder about your commitment and possibly end up replacing you before you leave, or just denying promotions advancements. It kind of sucks but its self protection. "The company man" is basically dead, unless its a family business or some kind of extra-work circumstances ties you to the place. Job security in general is pretty nebulous, layoffs are like natural disasters. If the new job sounds more exciting pays better and opens more doors, take it. Just do the right things when you leave and your old company will probably not fault you (or if they do, thats their problem). They'll be bummed but life goes on and most people get the way things work these days. For references, usually they do not contact them until after the deal is done and generally due to legal stuff its just a call to HR to confirm you actually worked there for whatever number of years you said. I guess sometimes they really use references but seems like they realize its pretty awkward and don't call them directly.
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Jan 31, 2014 23:35
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I'm only familiar with the PMP and I haven't taken the test so, grain of salt, but the standard practice for most people is self study. If your company will pay for a course then thats probably a good opportunity but its kinda like any standardized test where you've got to do your own studying anyway. I would def try to get your company to pay for as much as possible. Most places are pretty happy to do that since its cheaper than a raise or bonus and benefits them too. Even if they don't have an official process, there might be a general fund or something floating around, for even a medium sized business the costs for training classes are like the remainder when you round the total budget off so you're not really asking for the moon. Either way, its almost impossible for that conversation to go poorly since you're just trying to improve yourself/do your job better. Another note: Sometimes, if you are paying out of pocket, you can get discounts from a course instructor if you ask nicely and explain you are paying your own way but your really interested blah blah blah. Not always, maybe not usually, but I have heard of people swinging deals.
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Mar 13, 2014 20:45
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there's a negotiation thread where people that can give better advice but it seems like the usual recommendation is that if you like where you work and they like you, ask for a raise based on your performance but don't mention a separate offer. If they balk or its not enough, then you take the new job (or don't but you know where you stand). The key is that you can decide to walk away and are thus empowered to negotiate evenly but they don't feel like you're holding them hostage or tip them off that you're looking.
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Apr 8, 2014 20:13
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My first thought is (sorry for the cliche analogy) even if you win this "battle" its a losing "war". You get the new VP to listen, you stick around. But if your bosses are keeping a lid on you and you still report to them, then its going to be the same poo poo. With a larger company you might be able to lateral out from under them but its often criminally easy for selfish managers to hold onto their people, often by doing nasty things. So, I would be ready for that as well. Thats about as far as I can get without talking out my rear end. I'm not sure what you should actually do. If it were me I would talk to my bosses and the new VP. Tell the boss I like my job and I'm worried etc. Try to get them to go to bat for me, because even if they want to take the credit, they need someone to do the work. The new VP its grab some time to see what they're focused on, how I can help because i've done x and y or know about whatever. If there's no hope because they're dropping the IT staff regardless, maybe you can catch that. Then you're ready to go job hunting and can use your focus there instead of at your current job. It might make your current managers mad but IDK... if they're like that then they probably aren't doing you any favors anyway so why value that relationship?
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Aug 12, 2015 18:09
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Kim Jong Il posted:I have a relatively junior role on paper - I've been performing the duties of a senior contributor for a while. I requested a formal promotion, my director and VP agreed (and I believe them), only HR said no. They're not really inclined to fight HR due to how non-functioning things are around here. Don't sign, but don't blow up. Take your skills and find a senior level analytics job somewhere. Stay on good terms with everyone, especially your bosses and then come back in like 2 years @ the title you want and probably way more pay. Welcome to work in 2016.
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Jun 28, 2016 17:46
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I'm a recessionaire who doubled his salary too: I don't think I'll ever regret taking my comparatively low paying analyst monkey job for a bad company B/C so many friends and acquaintances have basically not recovered from not being able to get that first job. In a weird way, I always think of them kinda fondly because they were willing to slide down the experience / pay scale further than most firms. Kinda was a fair trade.
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Jul 27, 2016 19:12
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Earth Table posted:Anyone in BFC have experience with coding bootcamps or similar programs? I've been doing exercises on FreeCodeCamp and I'm enjoying it. I could go into NYC for General Assembly classes, etc, but Rutgers offers a 6 month certification program and boasts a pretty great job placement. Just wondering if anyone's had any success/nightmares from these? I work at a tech shop that's well liked / respected. we have a pipeline with a couple of these, they were founded by former employees so it's a known quantity when they recommend people. Usually the people we take are top of the class and doing a lot on their own in personal projects or open source. Most quality employers only care that you have the right skills not where they came from. although unconscious bias is a bitch and a secret right "skill" can be "has CS degree from Stanford" or "is a white man".
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Aug 1, 2016 18:32
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maybe big4 or Accenture? They take people with B+ or so and are usually looking for grads with a sort of general competency in those kind of skills? I know recruiting for them is decently competitive but IDK its a huge company that hires thousands of grads every year so not like you're getting overly narrow in goals. Also, its like the epitome "giant corporate machine " which fits some and is terrible for others.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:45
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ultrafilter posted:Yeah, consulting's a good choice. The big four are always an option, but smaller shops are worth checking out too. True! But sometimes it's hard to get on at smaller shops as an undergraduate. They basically let the big corps do their training.
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Oct 1, 2016 05:00
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That's a pretty wide list of divisions. Wide enough to wager that it doesn't really matter as long as you've got some white collar kind of experience. Do they mention specific skills? If you can match that to your experience then I think it's not so important you're outside the listed functions.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:26
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Not in that industry or even really close to it but the operations manager job sounds better both as the job and long term. Reasons I think that, in no particular order: - The travel for the pm job. Traveling for work intensely can be deeply draining. Especially quick trips taken mostly alone. - The operations job sounds more connected to the org. You have people reporting to you and you are reporting directly. The pm roles sounds more isolated where you might disappear from people's radar. You might research who has held that job and where they have ended up to see if this is correct. - you like the operations job better and your manager thinks you're better suited to it. From the description it sounds like that pm role will take a lot of persuasion / politicking. If you're not that kind of person, would suck. Doubly so if you're traveling because there is usually limited support. Again you know your situation and company, this could be very wrong. Something I did a lot and sometimes still do is look at the career path of people I admired or destination jobs I aspired to. You can probably parse out trends that will help you. Depending your circumstances, you might consider looking externally but it's hard to get hired as a manager without manager experience, so you might be happier/ better off where you're at even if takes a reasonable amount of time to get the job. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 25, 2017 |
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Jan 25, 2017 21:24
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Jerome Louis posted:Thanks, that's good feedback and helps me put my decision into perspective. I think the politicking would definitely drive me crazy, and I wouldn't get much support with that from my boss since she is pretty awful at that kind of stuff. I'm pretty solidly set on the Operations role now. I mean I am assuming from your description. The pm role is dropping in on people and getting them to comply with something, right?
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Jan 26, 2017 00:02
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