Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Whoa I can't believe the Sun wrote this.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/What+type+home+afford/7969716/story.html

quote:

Headlines regularly tell people that Vancouver is among the least-affordable cities in the world. But often they don't tell the full story - that while the city of Vancouver is a pricey place to be a homeowner, the suburbs still have home prices that are affordable to most families.

Today, The Vancouver Sun introduces the UDI/FortisBC Housing Affordability Index, a new way to look at housing prices that provides a clearer picture of affordability across Metro Vancouver.

The index was developed by a partnership of The Sun, the Urban Development Institute and Urban Analytics Inc. over the past three months.

Anne McMullin, president and CEO of the Urban Development Institute, said she thinks it may dispel some of the "myths and hysteria" about housing.

"It gives us a different read and drills down a bit more to have a better understanding of what affordability is really like in the region," said McMullin. "There's no doubt that there are issues of affordability in certain areas. But I think, as a region, the numbers aren't bad."

The UDI/FortisBC Housing Affordability Index will be reported by The Vancouver Sun every quarter.

"This is the first one. It will be interesting to see how it goes every quarter and to compare on an annual basis," said McMullin, whose non-profit institute represents B.C. residential, commercial, industrial and institutional developers.

The UDI/FortisBC Housing Affordability Index breaks Metro Vancouver into three areas: the city of Vancouver, Inner Metro (West Vancouver, North Vancouver, Burnaby, New Westminster, Richmond, South Delta, Coquitlam, Port Moody, Port Coquitlam) and Outer Metro (Surrey, Langley, North Delta, White Rock, Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge).

Urban Analytics calculated their numbers using average prices for new homes and median prices for resale homes.

"I often think when we talk about affordability, we say Vancouver meaning the whole region. But there are differences within the region. We tend to lump it all into one," McMullin said.

"This takes out the really high-end, which is really just a small number of people on the west side of Vancouver or on the West Vancouver waterfront, and looks more at the median prices rather than averaging the high, high prices with the relatively low prices.

"This study, unlike others, brings in not just income and house prices, but also factors in interest rates and amortization and looks at how that affects affordability," McMullin said. "I think this gives a more accurate gauge of affordability in the region."

The index shows that the majority of households in outer Metro can afford the payments on all types of homes, both new and resale. It found that as many as 82.9 per cent of households in outer Metro could make the payments on a re-sale wood-frame condo, while 80.4 per cent could afford a re-sale concrete condo.

For inner Metro, the index found that while 64.5 per cent of working households can afford a re-sale wood-frame condo, just 51.7 per cent of working households can afford a new concrete condo.

For single-family homes in inner Metro, less than 40.9 per cent of households could afford to make the mortgage payments. In Vancouver proper, housing is affordable for a far smaller percentage of the population. The UDI/FortisBC Housing Affordability Index shows that fewer than 32 per cent of households can afford payments on a single-family home, a new or resale townhouse or a new concrete condominium.

The numbers are a bit more encouraging for other types of housing: 34.7 per cent of households earn the $66,017 required to make the payments on a new wood-frame condominium, 35.4 per cent of households make the $65,129 needed for a resale concrete condo, and 49 per cent make the $48,455 required for a $356,000 resale wood-frame condo.

The index defines "affordable" as the percentage of households living in a region who would qualify for the mortgage required to own the property. Typically, a bank wants to see no more than 32 per cent of income going to housing before it provides a person with a mortgage.

Certified financial planner Michael Thorne said the 32 per cent debt-service ratio is a good guideline.

"In most circumstances, about 30 per cent is what I recommend a family target to spend on housing," Thorne said. "When you start getting up to 40 or 50 per cent of your income, that's when there are problems."

Adrian Mastracci, portfolio manager at KCM Wealth Management, said 32 per cent is a reasonable amount for a family to spend on housing, but that it would be tough to do that in Vancouver, with its lofty prices.

Mastracci said most people have to start with a small condo and whittle down their mortgage to build up equity. "Plow any extra money you have against your mortgage and really go to town," Mastracci suggested. "That is a risk-free investment you can make."

The UDI/FortisBC Housing Affordability Index treats first-time buyers differently, as most have less money for a down payment and thus need an insured mortgage.

For such buyers, the index assumed a 10-per-cent down payment (the lowest allowed to get an insured mortgage) and a 25-year mortgage amortization (the maximum allowed for an insured mortgage).

Using those assumptions, the index shows that 63.3 per cent of working households in outer Metro earn the $46,384 annual salary required to buy the average new wood-frame, 836-square-foot condominium, while 48.8 per cent are above the required income of $59,760 to buy a similar condo in inner Metro, and less than 32 per cent earn the required $82,649 to afford a similar type of condominium in Vancouver proper. For resales, the percentages were higher: 76.9 in outer Metro, 54 in inner Metro and 37.9 in Vancouver proper.

OUTER METRO: RESALE WOOD FRAME CONDOS

83%

INNER METRO: NEW TOWNHOMES

50%

VANCOUVER: RESALE WOOD FRAME CONDOS

38%

INNER METRO: NEW CONCRETE CONDOS

52%

VANCOUVER: SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, LESS THAN

32%

# ? Feb 15, 2013 18:15

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 23, 2024 18:19

SpannerX: Apr 26, 2010; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.; Fun Shoe

Dolash posted:

You may be right about the brain drain, but don't talk too much poo poo about my hometown, or else we shall have to resort to internet fisticuffs!

Besides, can you buy Picaroons in Texas? I posit that you cannot. Point, New Brunswick.

Picaroons is pretty drat good. I buy it over Propeller, I really like their bitter. It's a toss up between them and Garrison's for me.

Oh, yeah, I don't know what they are thinking building all those condos/whatever they are around Bedford. That just seems crazy. and the WTC building they are thinking about? Waste of money. But then our new idiot mayor is talking about CFL and NHL here. WTF? He's a tool. I thought Kelly was bad, this shitheel is looking like a complete moron from the get go. But then I voted for the gay guy with the chickens and hair saloon.

# ? Feb 15, 2013 21:00

Excelsiortothemax: Sep 9, 2006

Condos in Lethbridge go for $220,000 here which equal about $650 a month in mortgage payments. This is for a 2 bed, 2 bath and kitchen and living room.

I really want the market to crash so I can get in on those desperate to sell.

# ? Feb 15, 2013 23:14

Isentropy: Dec 12, 2010

SpannerX posted:

Picaroons is pretty drat good. I buy it over Propeller, I really like their bitter. It's a toss up between them and Garrison's for me.

Oh, yeah, I don't know what they are thinking building all those condos/whatever they are around Bedford. That just seems crazy. and the WTC building they are thinking about? Waste of money. But then our new idiot mayor is talking about CFL and NHL here. WTF? He's a tool. I thought Kelly was bad, this shitheel is looking like a complete moron from the get go. But then I voted for the gay guy with the chickens and hair saloon.

I honestly think Savage might have been just recognizing where he is when it comes to those comments about bringing the CHL and NHL here. There would be quite a lot of people and ~~shills for developers~~ "journalists" at the Chronicle Herald out here decrying him if he came out and said that there is no loving way in hell that Halifax should have a CFL or NHL team. That is part of the problem here, in and of itself; people are so hungry for development that they don't matter what that development is or whether it belongs here. I'm from Toronto, and seeing developers and journalists say "if you build it they will come" without a hint of irony scares the gently caress out of me.

Kelly was an actual horrible human being, worse than Ford or pretty much anyone I can think of at the moment. Rob Ford was actually a decent person and did a lot for his district - Kelly has always been about the FYGM Bedford old boys crowd.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 00:05

SpannerX: Apr 26, 2010; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.; Fun Shoe

Isentropy posted:

I honestly think Savage might have been just recognizing where he is when it comes to those comments about bringing the CHL and NHL here. There would be quite a lot of people and ~~shills for developers~~ "journalists" at the Chronicle Herald out here decrying him if he came out and said that there is no loving way in hell that Halifax should have a CFL or NHL team. That is part of the problem here, in and of itself; people are so hungry for development that they don't matter what that development is or whether it belongs here. I'm from Toronto, and seeing developers and journalists say "if you build it they will come" without a hint of irony scares the gently caress out of me.

Kelly was an actual horrible human being, worse than Ford or pretty much anyone I can think of at the moment. Rob Ford was actually a decent person and did a lot for his district - Kelly has always been about the FYGM Bedford old boys crowd.

Yeah, you may be right there about Savage. And Kelly is a horrible human. I don't understand how he hot voted in so many times.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 00:39

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

From Ben Rabidoux's twitter:

This is the second lowest sales to list ratio for all of Canada in 15 years.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 00:53

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Oh dear. Today isn't such a good day for real estate 'marketers'. It turns out the shitheads who are trying to sell The Village in the olympic village have been paying off the dumbass who runs vancouverisawesome.com

http://www.biv.com/article/20130214/BIV0121/130219967/real-estate-media-manipulation-trend-emerges

quote:

Such tactics seem to be part of a trend of real-estate marketers manipulating media perception to sell condos.

Business in Vancouver has learned that VancouverIsAwesome.com editor Bob Kronbauer is being paid by the in-receivership Village on False Creek, formerly the Olympic Village, to promote life in the village � even though nowhere on his website does it make it clear that he is being paid to do so.

http://www.biv.com/article/20130214/BIV0121/130219966/life-in-the-village-pays-off-for-local-webzine-editor

quote:

Marketers of the in-receivership Olympic Village are paying the editor of well-known local culture webzine VancouverIsAwesome.com to blog about the joys of life in the village � but it does not say on the website that he is being paid to do so.

Rennie Marketing Systems awarded the deal after receiving a single pitch from VancouverIsAwesome.com editor Bob Kronbauer, who says feels like he won a contest to be paid to flog the Village in False Creek � much like the public contests held by Vancouver International Airport and Tourism Richmond to find paid bloggers to promote them.

namaste friends fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Feb 16, 2013

# ? Feb 16, 2013 01:00

WAFFLEHOUND: Apr 26, 2007

Dolash posted:

You may be right about the brain drain, but don't talk too much poo poo about my hometown, or else we shall have to resort to internet fisticuffs!

Besides, can you buy Picaroons in Texas? I posit that you cannot. Point, New Brunswick.

Sorry, I put my time in at UNB. Freddy was awful. The housing market was pretty decent though, but I mean I'd kind of rather live in Iqaluit.

Speaking of which, how is the bubble looking in the Territories?

# ? Feb 16, 2013 05:00

312: Nov 7, 2012; I give terrible advice in E/N and post nothing worth anybody's time.

i might be a social cripple irl

Orange_Lazarus posted:

How easy is it for a person to get credit? Could a guy with negative net worth potentially get approved for a $300k+ home like in the US in 2007? Also how easy is it for someone mortgaging a home to bail on their debt obligation when they realize they can't afford it or lose their high paying job?

This is what's important; people can talk about "not making any more land" or whatever all they want, but at the end of the day a large rise in housing needs to be accompanied by a rise in wages, since loans eventually have to be tied to income. You can only defy this financial gravity for so long, basically by making lending really loose, NINA, SISA loans, etc. Once the fly-by-night mortgage lenders were destroyed in the US (there was like one week in late 06 or early 07 where basically 75 percent of lenders disappeared overnight) it was the beginning of the end, and within 6 months the market was in complete freefall because without the supply of loans this game can simply not happen.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 06:35

Sovy Kurosei: Oct 9, 2012

WAFFLEHOUND posted:

Speaking of which, how is the bubble looking in the Territories?

There is no bubble. There is a serious shortage of housing in the territories.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 06:42

312: Nov 7, 2012; I give terrible advice in E/N and post nothing worth anybody's time.

i might be a social cripple irl

Cultural Imperial posted:

From Ben Rabidoux's twitter:

This is the second lowest sales to list ratio for all of Canada in 15 years.

What the hell causes the massive drop every year from Dec -> Jan ? Fire sale at the end of the year for tax reasons?

But the lowest start (2009) still recovered and basically performed as well as the boom years through the second half, so it's hard to say what a low start means.

312 fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Feb 16, 2013

# ? Feb 16, 2013 06:45

Antioch: Apr 18, 2003

We just bought a place in Edmonton - half duplex, 2009 construction, 3bdrm/2.5bath, unfinished basement - total price was $320k with CMHC and associated costs, with about 6% down. Our household income is just over $100k. The wife is thinking we can turn around and sell for $350k+ in 3-5 years and I'm not sure how to break it to her that's probably not going to happen.
On the plus side now I get to figure out how to finish a basement! So that should be fun.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 08:08

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I'm kinda shocked people are buying without a proper downpayment. With such a huge income why not wait a bit and avoid CMHC stuff?

# ? Feb 16, 2013 09:23

flashman: Dec 16, 2003

There are stricter lending rules for your mortgage if it has to be backed by the bank rather than the taxpayer, so these people are probably getting higher mortgages than would be possible with a proper downpayment.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 16:02

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

312 posted:

What the hell causes the massive drop every year from Dec -> Jan ? Fire sale at the end of the year for tax reasons?

But the lowest start (2009) still recovered and basically performed as well as the boom years through the second half, so it's hard to say what a low start means.

To prevent Canada's economy from going the way of the rest of the world(remember we were in the throes of the financial crisis) the bank of Canada reduced interest rates. Additionally, lending standards were loosened by Flaherty and thus people who could nominally, not afford to buy a house, suddenly could.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 17:03

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Antioch posted:

We just bought a place in Edmonton - half duplex, 2009 construction, 3bdrm/2.5bath, unfinished basement - total price was $320k with CMHC and associated costs, with about 6% down. Our household income is just over $100k. The wife is thinking we can turn around and sell for $350k+ in 3-5 years and I'm not sure how to break it to her that's probably not going to happen.
On the plus side now I get to figure out how to finish a basement! So that should be fun.

Factor in realtor costs, property tax, insurance and all the money you're gonna spend renovating and you will probably lose money if you sell at 350k. Why sell it? Just enjoy your home.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 17:07

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

flashman posted:

There are stricter lending rules for your mortgage if it has to be backed by the bank rather than the taxpayer, so these people are probably getting higher mortgages than would be possible with a proper downpayment.

Anecdotally I have heard that the banks have "encouraged" people to make smaller downpayments than they initially planned. They want the CMHC to cover all the risk, particularly since they are fully aware it is a bubble.

According to Garth Turner the average down payment is now 7% in Canada.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 18:29

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

Baronjutter posted:

I'm kinda shocked people are buying without a proper downpayment. With such a huge income why not wait a bit and avoid CMHC stuff?

Are there laws in Canada which prevent the use of Down-payment Assistance Programs? In the US they sprung up when banks started enforcing higher down payment requirements and nobody would take on 100% financing situations, and they became a hit with builders aiming for the first time homebuyer using an FHA loan which was the closest thing to 100% financing out there (allowing 97%).

Here's how it would work: The seller and buyer would then agree on a price. A buyer would have no down payment. The seller would make a $YYk "donation" plus fee to a "charity" who would then decide to help facilitate getting these needy people into a home, and the official sale would happen at price + $XXk + fee. The "charity" would gave a "gift" of $XXk to the buyer, sufficient to allow a down payment meeting the FHA loan requirements (3.00%). The fee was normally around $400, more than enough to cover expanses and allow a nice salary for those doing the work.

Oh and the government took on all the risk for the loan!

Here is a pretty good rundown from 2007 about how stupid an idea they are, but they really only worked by exploiting a loophole in the US FHA loan rules.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 18:36

Justin Trudeau: Apr 4, 2009; There's a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime

Cultural Imperial posted:

To prevent Canada's economy from going the way of the rest of the world(remember we were in the throes of the financial crisis) the bank of Canada reduced interest rates. Additionally, lending standards were loosened by Flaherty and thus people who could nominally, not afford to buy a house, suddenly could.

So the response to a global financial crisis caused by the collapse of housing bubbles in the United States and Europe was to encourage a housing bubble in Canada? That's not short sighted at all.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 19:39

312: Nov 7, 2012; I give terrible advice in E/N and post nothing worth anybody's time.

i might be a social cripple irl

Cultural Imperial posted:

To prevent Canada's economy from going the way of the rest of the world(remember we were in the throes of the financial crisis) the bank of Canada reduced interest rates. Additionally, lending standards were loosened by Flaherty and thus people who could nominally, not afford to buy a house, suddenly could.

Oh boy you guys are going to blow up. That staves off disaster for a couple years but makes it ohhh so much worse. But I was referring to the cyclical nature, it bounces from high to low every year in that graph, and it's not seasonal.

Shifty Pony posted:

Are there laws in Canada which prevent the use of Down-payment Assistance Programs? In the US they sprung up when banks started enforcing higher down payment requirements and nobody would take on 100% financing situations, and they became a hit with builders aiming for the first time homebuyer using an FHA loan which was the closest thing to 100% financing out there (allowing 97%).

Here's how it would work: The seller and buyer would then agree on a price. A buyer would have no down payment. The seller would make a $YYk "donation" plus fee to a "charity" who would then decide to help facilitate getting these needy people into a home, and the official sale would happen at price + $XXk + fee. The "charity" would gave a "gift" of $XXk to the buyer, sufficient to allow a down payment meeting the FHA loan requirements (3.00%). The fee was normally around $400, more than enough to cover expanses and allow a nice salary for those doing the work.

Oh and the government took on all the risk for the loan!

Here is a pretty good rundown from 2007 about how stupid an idea they are, but they really only worked by exploiting a loophole in the US FHA loan rules.

There were always plenty of other ways to do 100% through subprime. gently caress I saw 100% day out of bankruptcy financing even at the end on rate sheets. You're correct that brokers liked FHA loans (you got super paid) so if it was possible to go FHA (they actually were much stricter about income/jobs than subprime) those programs were utilized- you're not wrong at all about that.

312 fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Feb 16, 2013

# ? Feb 16, 2013 19:45

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Average downpayment is 7%?! The 2 mortgage people I sat down and talked to at my credit union both told me they very very strongly recommend at LEAST a 20% down-payment and seemed to insinuate you're insane not to. Even the business starved realtors I've spoken with told me they'd try to talk anyone out of buying who didn't have a full downpayment. Said if you save up more than 20% don't buy a bigger home, just put in a bigger downpayment.

I'm really looking forward for my taxes to be covering idiot CMHC-insured bubble buyers.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 16, 2013

# ? Feb 16, 2013 19:49

312: Nov 7, 2012; I give terrible advice in E/N and post nothing worth anybody's time.

i might be a social cripple irl

Those are the only honest realtors I've ever heard of, ours said "check please". Though that may be an indication that realtors know lending is becoming tighter and they probably won't get the loan anymore. This is all un-shockingly familiar though, at this point the market is held up completely through little to no money down deals because no one has the cash anymore for 10-20% on insanely inflated prices.

e: credit unions usually service the loans, so no surprise they want a high down payment.

312 fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Feb 16, 2013

# ? Feb 16, 2013 19:57

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

312 posted:

Oh boy you guys are going to blow up. That staves off disaster for a couple years but makes it ohhh so much worse. But I was referring to the cyclical nature, it bounces from high to low every year in that graph, and it's not seasonal.

There were always plenty of other ways to do 100% through subprime. gently caress I saw 100% day out of bankruptcy financing even at the end on rate sheets. You're correct that brokers liked FHA loans (you got super paid) so if it was possible to go FHA (they actually were much stricter about income/jobs than subprime) those programs were utilized- you're not wrong at all about that.

Yeah but during the 2007-2009 time frame banks tightened up considerably on sub-prime (because practically nobody was buying any securities not backed by the GSEs). And the FHA rules allowing it was really hyped up as it being a government approved way to get homebuyers into homes. "Look, right there! Charities are specifically allowed for! If this were bad would the government be allowing you to do it? They would be on the hook after all... do you know better than the FHA?"

My friends were in the DC market at the time and it was full-court-press to get them to do this. I mean every single person they talked to when looking for a buyer's agent tried to get them to do it, until they eventually told everyone to gently caress off and bought via Redfin.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 20:16

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

312 posted:

But I was referring to the cyclical nature, it bounces from high to low every year in that graph, and it's not seasonal.

The spring and fall are typically higher sales, but also have larger new list volumes. Not many people list in December, so that is why the ratio climbs as high as it does, to drop off to slightly below average in January when listings resume.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 20:18

Excelsiortothemax: Sep 9, 2006

I'm just tired of hearing about house flipping. Many people are telling me to buy a crap shack, fix it up, then sell for profit! Heck, I just heard on the radio of a free seminar from a host of "Flip that House" that is trying to encourage more people to do that.

Ill laugh when they sink all their money into a poo poo hole that no-one will ever buy once the market crashes.

Just slowly socking my money away......$50,000 you need to materialize quicker.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 21:34

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

312 posted:

Oh boy you guys are going to blow up. That staves off disaster for a couple years but makes it ohhh so much worse. But I was referring to the cyclical nature, it bounces from high to low every year in that graph, and it's not seasonal.

There were always plenty of other ways to do 100% through subprime. gently caress I saw 100% day out of bankruptcy financing even at the end on rate sheets. You're correct that brokers liked FHA loans (you got super paid) so if it was possible to go FHA (they actually were much stricter about income/jobs than subprime) those programs were utilized- you're not wrong at all about that.

Story for the huge quote; I'm typing this from a nexus. What is a 100% day out of bankruptcy?

# ? Feb 16, 2013 21:39

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Excelsiortothemax posted:

I'm just tired of hearing about house flipping. Many people are telling me to buy a crap shack, fix it up, then sell for profit! Heck, I just heard on the radio of a free seminar from a host of "Flip that House" that is trying to encourage more people to do that.

Ill laugh when they sink all their money into a poo poo hole that no-one will ever buy once the market crashes.

Just slowly socking my money away......$50,000 you need to materialize quicker.

Where do you live and who is telling you to do this? Its really hard to talk with bullish family members.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 21:40

Excelsiortothemax: Sep 9, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

Where do you live and who is telling you to do this? Its really hard to talk with bullish family members.

Lethbridge, and it's not just family members. It's my customers, a few friends and people I just talk to when I'm the customer. I :catstare:

them as I wouldn't want to touch a house flipping project in a million years

# ? Feb 16, 2013 21:56

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Excelsiortothemax posted:

Lethbridge, and it's not just family members. It's my customers, a few friends and people I just talk to when I'm the customer. I them as I wouldn't want to touch a house flipping project in a million years

Jesus a housing boom in Lethbridge? What is going on there economically?

# ? Feb 16, 2013 22:18

lonelywurm: Aug 10, 2009

Cultural Imperial posted:

Jesus a housing boom in Lethbridge? What is going on there economically?

Health care, education, agriculture and processing industries from agriculture, and transport-related industries, especially trucking. I mean it's not a bad place in a lot of ways, but it really hasn't seen the same level of upward wage pressure from the petro-chemical industry as the rest of the province has - which is why it shocks the hell out of me to see housing go up like it has. When my parents sold their place there it went for $280,000 (1400 sq feet main floor with finished basement, smack dab between the hospital and Mayor Magrath) in '07 - but 3 years earlier they bought it for $160,000.

lonelywurm fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Feb 16, 2013

# ? Feb 16, 2013 22:47

Excelsiortothemax: Sep 9, 2006

There is tons of condos going up on the west side of town. In the 8 years I've lived here, they built a road out to empty fields, and now two huge condo areas are springing up. There is a gigantic catholic school nearby and many other shops and businesses building up. I think it's that there are finally enough permanent population staying in the town and on the west side of town to facilitate the development.

From what I can gather, what used to happen is that people would get their training or schooling in town, then leave to work on the rigs or in Calgary.

Now that those places are getting too dangerous or expensive, the population is staying put and more and more are buying homes here.

Currently I'm renting a 2 bed 2 bath condo and getting fleeced for $1250 a month split between myself and my fianc�.

I know it's too expensive for our combined take home pay of 4000, but landlords REALLY hate pets here due to the university kids habits of getting a pet and then abandoning it or letting it piss everywhere, and since we have two cats, we have to pay extra.

The house flipping is mainly centred around the older north side of town. Many houses there were built in the 50s and need repairs. They are also incredibly tiny houses on huge lots of land. Expansions are going up or the old run down houses are getting torn down and new split duplexes going up in their place.

More and more immigrants are also arriving here as the Phillipinos are filling in the fast food labor spots and many Africans and mexicans are being hired to work the nearby farm and ranches. When they get their citizenship they want to stay in town so they too are buying up spots.

It is a pretty healthy economy going on all in all. Most of the roads are still poo poo despite the money we pour into infrastructure maintenance.

I feeling that if development keeps up that we will start to see high rises being made eventually to accommodate greater lower income populations.

Now if only I could get that bridge from the west side to the far south so I wouldn't have to drive across and through town to get to work.

# ? Feb 16, 2013 22:52

Mundane: Jan 20, 2009

Excelsiortothemax posted:

Now if only I could get that bridge from the west side to the far south so I wouldn't have to drive across and through town to get to work.

Live in the same city as you, and holy crap do they ever need to get that thing up and running. 50 minutes in rush hour just to drive 12km in a town of less than 300k people.

Bought a house in the burb's here west of the airport for 301k, which was the average rate for houses in my neighborhood. One year later the house next door finally sold and I asked my neighbor what he payed.

Guy said 475k. We have the exact same cookie cutter starter house, that it was weird walking thru it when he invited me in. Those home building companies are raking in a killing.

# ? Feb 18, 2013 09:21

Excelsiortothemax: Sep 9, 2006

At least we have an art centre now right? I mean, that will help with the congestion in the park.

Priorities man!

# ? Feb 18, 2013 10:15

Bleu: Jul 19, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

Story for the huge quote; I'm typing this from a nexus. What is a 100% day out of bankruptcy?

100% refers to how much of the house's price is in the mortgage, rather than the down payment - i.e., the bank pays for your entire house. That the bank is willing to take the biggest risk (you have given them zero dollars) on the mortgage when you have literally the shittiest credit rating possible (the day after you exit bankruptcy) means the banks are not playing nice-nice with the real estate market, basically.

# ? Feb 18, 2013 14:09

MaterialConceptual: Jan 18, 2011; "It is rather that precisely in that which is newest the face of the world never alters, that this newest remains, in every aspect, the same. - This constitutes the eternity of hell."

-Walter Benjamin, "The Arcades Project"

Mundane posted:

Live in the same city as you, and holy crap do they ever need to get that thing up and running. 50 minutes in rush hour just to drive 12km in a town of less than 300k people.

Bought a house in the burb's here west of the airport for 301k, which was the average rate for houses in my neighborhood. One year later the house next door finally sold and I asked my neighbor what he payed.

Guy said 475k. We have the exact same cookie cutter starter house, that it was weird walking thru it when he invited me in. Those home building companies are raking in a killing.

My Dad got transfered to Lethbridge 2 years ago for work and bought (took out a mortgage out on) a place on Fairmont Blvd. He had a fair sized downpayment on it because of the money he happened to make off the housing appreciation in Kamloops, but I suspect he probably bought into the market in Lethbridge at the wrong time and is going to get screwed. At least it wasn't an "investment property" sigh...

MaterialConceptual fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Feb 18, 2013

# ? Feb 18, 2013 14:53

312: Nov 7, 2012; I give terrible advice in E/N and post nothing worth anybody's time.

i might be a social cripple irl

Shifty Pony posted:

Yeah but during the 2007-2009 time frame banks tightened up considerably on sub-prime (because practically nobody was buying any securities not backed by the GSEs). And the FHA rules allowing it was really hyped up as it being a government approved way to get homebuyers into homes. "Look, right there! Charities are specifically allowed for! If this were bad would the government be allowing you to do it? They would be on the hook after all... do you know better than the FHA?"

My friends were in the DC market at the time and it was full-court-press to get them to do this. I mean every single person they talked to when looking for a buyer's agent tried to get them to do it, until they eventually told everyone to gently caress off and bought via Redfin.

My mistake, I was out of the game by early 2007 so I really didn't know they brought everything to FHA, that's pretty crazy. They also had the housing credit which was a complete disaster as well.

Cultural Imperial posted:

Story for the huge quote; I'm typing this from a nexus. What is a 100% day out of bankruptcy?

What Bleu said. Even in late 06 you could still completely finance a house 100% even if you just left bankruptcy. Of course it would be an 80/20 loan with the 20% being a neg-am option arm from subprimemortgagewarehouse.com but hey.

Excelsiortothemax posted:

I'm just tired of hearing about house flipping. Many people are telling me to buy a crap shack, fix it up, then sell for profit! Heck, I just heard on the radio of a free seminar from a host of "Flip that House" that is trying to encourage more people to do that.

Ill laugh when they sink all their money into a poo poo hole that no-one will ever buy once the market crashes.

Just slowly socking my money away......$50,000 you need to materialize quicker.

Like I said in '06 (in reference to the old depression era quote) 'When I see housewives on HTV flipping shacks in Vegas for 100k profit, I know there's about to be a housing crisis'

312 fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Feb 18, 2013

# ? Feb 18, 2013 18:25

Simulated: Sep 28, 2001; Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.; College Slice

All real estate is regional - it took until 2009 for Dallas home prices to stop rising, even though the rest of the country was free-falling for two years, and our prices are rising again.

Then again we never had double-digit price growth so the bubble was much smaller here. I think that has something to do with both sprawl and a memory of the S&L crash that hit Dallas hard.

Anyway you Canadians have my sympathies on your upcoming bubble pop; one can only hope it doesn't take the bubble in Canadian home improvement shows with it, elsewise what shall I watch?

# ? Feb 18, 2013 18:49

SpannerX: Apr 26, 2010; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.; Fun Shoe

Ender.uNF posted:

Anyway you Canadians have my sympathies on your upcoming bubble pop; one can only hope it doesn't take the bubble in Canadian home improvement shows with it, elsewise what shall I watch?

Oh no! What will I do with out my Mike Holmes, Property Brothers, and Love it or List it!

Here in Halifax I think we are slowly deflating, honestly. I've seen prices coming down in some areas, and plateaued in others. But then I don't think we have the same sort of market that T.O. and Van have. People have been leaving here for Ontario and beyond since the beginning of the country. Van will probably pop hard.

# ? Feb 18, 2013 19:09

Guy DeBorgore: Apr 6, 1994; Catnip is the opiate of the masses; Soiled Meat

Well, this thread's definitely convinced me that the bubble's going to pop soon, but I'm not convinced it'll be that apocalyptic. If you look at the US in 2007, the hardest-hit areas were those that were already suffering economically: Detroit, Phoenix, and so on. The major metropolitan centres recovered relatively quickly. I'd expect that Vancouver and Toronto 5 years from now will still be vibrant cities.

The market correction'll still be good news for those of you looking to buy a house, though.

# ? Feb 18, 2013 20:09

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 23, 2024 18:19

312: Nov 7, 2012; I give terrible advice in E/N and post nothing worth anybody's time.

i might be a social cripple irl

Condos in chicago absolutely plummeted, almost basically halved in value. And "recovery" is a pretty relative term. It's still a lot lot worse than pre-crash for basically everyone that's not rich.

Besides that Phoenix was absolutely not "suffering", the crash was huge there because the inflation was utterly loving enormous. As an example my cousins house went from 70k to 650 k in about 20 years. That's what matters, honestly it was the most prosperous areas where the crash hit the hardest, the exact opposite of it only affecting poor areas. See also Vegas, which was in a huge boom up until the crash. Places like Detriot didn't have very far to fall and it wasn't desirable to live there in the 2000's to begin with so really it's just lovely as it's always been.

312 fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Feb 18, 2013

# ? Feb 18, 2013 20:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

«‹›1516 »