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etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Mr. Wynand posted:

The spreadsheet is valuable not because it helps you predict the actual outcome (you can plug in all sorts of far more pessimistic numbers in it and still come out ahead), but to see what a huge difference fiddling with numbers can make. You're right on the money when you say it's about volatility. That's exactly the point - people are putting a third of the money they don't even have yet into this single, actually really quite risky investment.

It's a even worse asset due to the complete lack liquidity unlike a stock investment where you can sell underperforming stocks or even cash out of portion of nice stocks if you need money in a pinch.

The only people who have a belief in their home being a great investment are people who actually believe biased rent vs. buy articles.

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Mrs. Wynand
Nov 23, 2002

DLT 4EVA

SpaceMost posted:

Not to split hairs but isn't the primitive expectation for communal living, with expectations of privacy and personal space largely enabled by central heating?


Sure, and having to hunt for 2-for-1 DOUBLE AIRMILE DEALS for your food instead of mastodons was largely enabled by sedentary agriculture, irrigation, chemical fertilizer and fossil fuels (and the extinction of mastodons).

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.
A funny anecdote: when I was at the Vancouver real estate board, they did this thing where they would fundraise for the office Christmas party throughout the year, usually by selling bingo and 50/50 cards and the like, with the proceeds going into the party fund.

However, they would always have to time the games to happen on the day after payday, because otherwise nobody would have $2 to spare on a raffle due to being broke. :stare:

So in terms of that whole "spend every dime you have every month and never save any of it and max out your allowable mortgage SPEND SPEND SPEND!" mentality, the real estate board staff certainly practiced what they preach...

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Mr. Wynand posted:

Family? Friends? My wife and her family? Asking people to just uproot and move is pretty terrible. I say that as someone who has moved a lot growing up, and it's extremely taxing on the whole family. This is why newly-gentrified neighborhoods pricing out the existing locals is actually really really damaging to the community. But FY,GM amirite?

(There is a way of doing this in a way that lets the community grow and improve without loving people over. It's more or less the opposite of what Vancouver does.)


No one is asking you to cross the Rio Grande or the Indian ocean. Everyone in Calgary speaks the same language and obey the same laws as you, somehow I think you'll manage.

One of the things that makes Canada a nice place to live is the relative ease of internal mobility. It's literally a major reason why nation states exist, and lack of mobility is a reason why house prices in certain areas get run up - if wages in an area don't support prices, then either wages go up, or workers cash in their gains from house price appreciation and leave. I'm the furthest thing from a free-market fundamentalist and residential real estate is one of those things where the market should be allowed to set prices. In fact I would argue that instead of the government giving people free houses at public expense which only benefits incumbent landlords and property developers, while the workers are tied down to pieces of dirt like serfs. The money should instead be spent on making it as easy as possible for people to move from low-productivity areas like Vancouver to high-growth areas like Calgary. There's plenty of stuff that could be done, like allowing more tax breaks for moving expenses, or setting up information/assistance facilities for new arrivals, etc. just off the top of my head.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Fine-able Offense posted:

A funny anecdote: when I was at the Vancouver real estate board, they did this thing where they would fundraise for the office Christmas party throughout the year, usually by selling bingo and 50/50 cards and the like, with the proceeds going into the party fund.

However, they would always have to time the games to happen on the day after payday, because otherwise nobody would have $2 to spare on a raffle due to being broke. :stare:

So in terms of that whole "spend every dime you have every month and never save any of it and max out your allowable mortgage SPEND SPEND SPEND!" mentality, the real estate board staff certainly practiced what they preach...

Did you ever meet a talking head like Cam Muir or Tsur Sommerville? And what was your impression of them?

shots shots shots
Sep 6, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Mr. Wynand posted:

Poppyock. You can fiddle with the regulation around mortgage loans and insurance for second homes (and first homes as well). You can build affordable housing. You can increase supply by increasing density. You can provide housing assistance. It's a perfectly solvable problem.

1) Many people buy homes with cash or alternative financing, especially in an international city like Vancouver

2) Affordable housing becomes unaffordable pretty quickly again if the market is moving upwards

3) Homeowners are voters, so the only acceptable intervention is intervention that raises housing prices. Subsidizing down payments: OK, Flooding the market with low-income housing in the immediate vicinity: Not OK

Mrs. Wynand
Nov 23, 2002

DLT 4EVA

Throatwarbler posted:

No one is asking you to cross the Rio Grande or the Indian ocean. Everyone in Calgary speaks the same language and obey the same laws as you, somehow I think you'll manage.

One of the things that makes Canada a nice place to live is the relative ease of internal mobility. It's literally a major reason why nation states exist, and lack of mobility is a reason why house prices in certain areas get run up - if wages in an area don't support prices, then either wages go up, or workers cash in their gains from house price appreciation and leave. I'm the furthest thing from a free-market fundamentalist and residential real estate is one of those things where the market should be allowed to set prices. In fact I would argue that instead of the government giving people free houses at public expense which only benefits incumbent landlords and property developers, while the workers are tied down to pieces of dirt like serfs. The money should instead be spent on making it as easy as possible for people to move from low-productivity areas like Vancouver to high-growth areas like Calgary. There's plenty of stuff that could be done, like allowing more tax breaks for moving expenses, or setting up information/assistance facilities for new arrivals, etc. just off the top of my head.

Are you single? Under 30? Just curious.

You can't just take your social support network with you to your new city. You can't make a new lifelong friend from a government support program. You can't even get someone to do something as simple as feeding your cat while you're on holiday or watch your kids on short notice because you're staying late for work. There is nothing quiet like the feeling of isolation from living in a city you barely know.

Of course there's a limit to this, of course people should eventually move out of completely unproductive localities, of course it is possible to re-form that network given time and of course young unattached people especially can/should do this most often. But allowing people to live where they've always lived (assuming they were happy there to begin with) is something absolutely worth supporting, especially when it's only being threatened by something as arbitrary as speculative investors (even when most of those investors are locals themselves).

Vancouver is a fine city (in the "I'm fine, thanks" sense, not the "my, what a fine young conservative you've raised" sense). It absolutely thinks far too highly of itself and too many people think it's something it's not. But there's nothing actually wrong with it. It can support a modest eco-tourism industry, it has 3 or so pretty good post-secondary institutions that provide a pool of educated professionals for film and research and software development, it's nice enough that those professionals to not mind living here, it has plenty of room for industrial growth in natural resource processing that can provide blue collar jobs. It could even grow a culture if given a chance.


It's fine, ok? It should be able to support it's incumbent locals just fine. There's no real need for anyone to pack up and leave, this is almost an entirely a "market problem". It will fix itself ... one way or the other :/

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Mr. Wynand posted:

Are you single? Under 30? Just curious.


I'm 30 this year, but I'm also a non-white immigrant, so on the one hand I understand better than you probably do about the importance of informal networks (that's another thing that makes Canada great, relatively it's easier for newcomers to succeed without relying on them too much), and on the other hand driving one day from Vancouver to Calgary just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Also everyone in Calgary is from Saskachewan so V:v:V

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Mr. Wynand posted:


Of course there's a limit to this, of course people should eventually move out of completely unproductive localities, of course it is possible to re-form that network given time and of course young unattached people especially can/should do this most often. But allowing people to live where they've always lived (assuming they were happy there to begin with) is something absolutely worth supporting, especially when it's only being threatened by something as arbitrary as speculative investors (even when most of those investors are locals themselves).


I work in a large systems integrator with several contracts to outsource it from businesses around the vancouver area. There are a large number of employees in this company who come from brazil, china, india, south africa, australia and the uk. These people are not yospos gamer admins, they have highly specialized skills. On average, these people are in their mid to late 30s. On the other hand, every single life long vancouver resident working in this company is a baby boomer.

If you want to develop your skills and move up in your career, the clear choice to me is to leave and then come back. Don't fool yourself into thinking your 'support' network is going to help you get ahead if everyone is bush league.

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Cultural Imperial posted:

Did you ever meet a talking head like Cam Muir or Tsur Sommerville? And what was your impression of them?

Yeah, I met both, though Muir only briefly. Tsur seemed like your prototypical know-it-all academic, full of himself and given to smug pronouncements (with zero data to back it up) and snappy quips. Basically, his media persona took over the host body. The real estate boards all hate him because he'll occasionally go off the script and say something they don't like, whereupon the board will phone up his boss at Sauder and ream him out and remind them how much money the developers pay to keep them in smoking jackets. Then Somerville calls the board and grovels and apologises. You know, academic independence.

Cameron Muir is a real treat. He's not actually an economist, which is why his understudy/assistant is always an actual trained economist, so that somebody knows how to do all the modeling for him. He also tends to piss off the Vancouver area boards with his being both useless AND smug, which is never a winning combination. I dealt more with his coworkers, and they all seemed to harbour a silent dislike of him.

The worst one of the lot is Helmut Pastrick, who despite being the chief economist for Credit 1 Central and therefore should know better, truly believes the hype and thinks things will remain hunky dorey forever and ever.

I was pretty much the only analytical type person at the board in any capacity who was a bear.

Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

Cultural Imperial posted:

If you want to develop your skills and move up in your career, the clear choice to me is to leave and then come back. Don't fool yourself into thinking your 'support' network is going to help you get ahead if everyone is bush league.

This is a profoundly sick way to understand the value of community.

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum

Fine-able Offense posted:

I was pretty much the only analytical type person at the board in any capacity who was a bear.

Why am I not surprised that the Real Estate Board holds meetings at the Pumpjack. :v:

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Rime posted:

Why am I not surprised that the Real Estate Board holds meetings at the Pumpjack. :v:

Well, Celebrities is wretched these days...

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

We've thought about moving to a cheaper city but the rest of Canada seems like a hole compared to Victoria, or filled with mean francophones. We like living a nearly car-free lifestyle and other than a few other big cities that's really hard to do. Toronto has ok transit but is loving huge, who knows where your job will be. I mean Vancouver seems way too big for me, the idea of spending an hour to visit a friend or go to work or an event or something is a deal-breaker, so something as huge as Toronto is out. I've heard good things about Montreal although once again it's probably too big and I'm absolutely useless with languages. Quebec city looks gorgeous and it's core is probably the closest to a proper city in Canada, but good luck not speaking french let alone not being from there. I've heard ok things about Halifax. Alberta is absolutely off the table, despise just about everything about the place, specially Calgary.

Moving anywhere, we'd have to get new jobs (huge stress), new friends, new climate, new everything. Those sorts of things are hard to put a price on, but I guess you can since I'd rather pay nearly double for housing to avoid those things. I hate how overly mobile society has become, no one puts down roots, they just zip from city based mostly on economics. It's not a freedom, it's just become a chore, an expected thing you to do for your career. You only go to Victoria once you're rich and retired or at the end of your career, gently caress you if you're born there. I'd love to move to Prague or Berlin but: language (also the EU wouldn't want an uneducated poor like me). Property in Berlin is so drat cheap, Prague even more so. Yet the quality of life, infrastructure, everything makes Victoria or Vancouver look like a calgary suburb. Canada is kind of a backwater dump, it's just a less gross dump than the one to the south (although by god we're sure trying)

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Mar 20, 2013

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
Seriouspost: My mom really likes Victoria and wants to buy a house and retire there. She isn't going to start seriously looking until the latter half of this year at least though. Yes/No?

I've been there but I'm not all that familiar, it doesn't really look like condos downtown are much more expensive than the suburbs, which isn't how things work in most other places.

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Throatwarbler posted:

Seriouspost: My mom really likes Victoria and wants to buy a house and retire there. She isn't going to start seriously looking until the latter half of this year at least though. Yes/No?

Spring 2015 is my best guess based on how the US bubbles unfolded.

Minister Robathan
Jan 3, 2007

The Alien Leader of Transportation

Baronjutter posted:

We've thought about moving to a cheaper city but the rest of Canada seems like a hole compared to Victoria, or filled with mean francophones.

I stopped reading here. You could have great, excellent points in the rest of it, but I don't care. gently caress you. This is some of the most bigoted poo poo I've ever seen in D&D.

I.. Just... I have no words.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Minister Robathan posted:

I stopped reading here. You could have great, excellent points in the rest of it, but I don't care. gently caress you. This is some of the most bigoted poo poo I've ever seen in D&D.

I.. Just... I have no words.

God drat I hate Alberta and French people so much, why won't the government give me more money to buy houses in BC :qq:

apatheticman
May 13, 2003

Wedge Regret
Seems both the Canadian threads have been derailed with BC chat.

One question I would like to pose is if there was any study done to see what % of consumer spending has increased due to increase in consumer debt and how that would affect our GDP if we got back to theoretical ideal savings.

Right now pretty much everyone I know is living paycheque to paycheque and either house poor or close to it. Visas and credit lines have become these people's safety nets when they weren't set up for that.

How do we correct this when it seems most of society sees this as normal and sees spending close to 5 or 8 times your annual income on a house "the thing to do"?

jet sanchEz
Oct 24, 2001

Lousy Manipulative Dog

Baronjutter posted:

We've thought about moving to a cheaper city but the rest of Canada seems like a hole compared to Victoria, or filled with mean francophones. We like living a nearly car-free lifestyle and other than a few other big cities that's really hard to do. Toronto has ok transit but is loving huge, who knows where your job will be. I mean Vancouver seems way too big for me, the idea of spending an hour to visit a friend or go to work or an event or something is a deal-breaker, so something as huge as Toronto is out. I've heard good things about Montreal although once again it's probably too big and I'm absolutely useless with languages. Quebec city looks gorgeous and it's core is probably the closest to a proper city in Canada, but good luck not speaking french let alone not being from there. I've heard ok things about Halifax. Alberta is absolutely off the table, despise just about everything about the place, specially Calgary.

Moving anywhere, we'd have to get new jobs (huge stress), new friends, new climate, new everything. Those sorts of things are hard to put a price on, but I guess you can since I'd rather pay nearly double for housing to avoid those things. I hate how overly mobile society has become, no one puts down roots, they just zip from city based mostly on economics. It's not a freedom, it's just become a chore, an expected thing you to do for your career. You only go to Victoria once you're rich and retired or at the end of your career, gently caress you if you're born there. I'd love to move to Prague or Berlin but: language (also the EU wouldn't want an uneducated poor like me). Property in Berlin is so drat cheap, Prague even more so. Yet the quality of life, infrastructure, everything makes Victoria or Vancouver look like a calgary suburb. Canada is kind of a backwater dump, it's just a less gross dump than the one to the south (although by god we're sure trying)

I don't want you to stop posting because it is fascinating, maybe an E/N thread?


Serious chat: Despite baby boomers getting us into this mess, they are still our salvation!

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/baby-boomers-sway-canada-housing-market-125153618.html

Baby Boomers to sway Canada’s housing market

The Baby Boom generation that helped drive up home sales in recent decades will be part of its gearing down as seniors retire and settle down for longer in one place.

Canada’s aging population will have “important implications” for future housing demand in the coming decades, according to a new report from Scotiabank. That includes a slowdown in overall housing sales, balanced somewhat by a steady number of condos purchased as Baby Boomers downsize and more people wind up living alone.

Sovy Kurosei
Oct 9, 2012
I am car-free and I live in Edmonton. Your options are a bit limited to where you want to live, have freedom of mobility and not own a vehicle but that applies to every city in the country. You're not going to find much service in the stereotypical suburban community composed of twists, turns and cul-de-sacs regardless if it is in Quebec or Alberta.

ocrumsprug
Sep 23, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Whiteycar posted:

Seems both the Canadian threads have been derailed with BC chat.

Toronto isn't the center of the universe for this particular topic, now it's our turn to be popular. :zoid:

~~~

One of the local Vancouver bear blogs got leaked some insider realtor data. One of the areas in question is south of YVR in Richmond. Rejoice everyone, things are just a bit off and there is nothing at all to worry about. They have an index that says so.

quote:

Terra Nova

In February 2012 the average sales price was $1,245,556 . In February 2013 it's $772,200. That's a drop of -38%!

The median sales price in February 2012 was $1,388,000. In February 2013 it's $688,000. That's a drop of -50.4%!

But you are not told these numbers. Instead you are given the Industry's HPI which says the year over year drop is only -4.6% in Terra Nova.

I think I may just finally go buy a house after all.

iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010

jet sanchEz posted:

[RE:Baronjutter]
I don't want you to stop posting because it is fascinating, maybe an E/N thread?

...

Seconded.

It would be nice if you stop looking for validation in DD and BFC while ignoring all of the advice.

Mrs. Wynand
Nov 23, 2002

DLT 4EVA

Cultural Imperial posted:

I work in a large systems integrator with several contracts to outsource it from businesses around the vancouver area. There are a large number of employees in this company who come from brazil, china, india, south africa, australia and the uk. These people are not yospos gamer admins, they have highly specialized skills. On average, these people are in their mid to late 30s. On the other hand, every single life long vancouver resident working in this company is a baby boomer.

If you want to develop your skills and move up in your career, the clear choice to me is to leave and then come back. Don't fool yourself into thinking your 'support' network is going to help you get ahead if everyone is bush league.

Well like I said, your 20s are the time to do that. But really, this neither here nor there. The kind of uprooting stress inflicted on working professionals by awsome job offers abroad is not exactly the social problem I have in mind.

Having jobs available in a wide variety of fields is, but having to leave town because the top of your field is centered elsewhere is more of a "lategame" type of urban social issue.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

ocrumsprug posted:

Toronto isn't the center of the universe for this particular topic, now it's our turn to be popular. :zoid:

~~~

One of the local Vancouver bear blogs got leaked some insider realtor data. One of the areas in question is south of YVR in Richmond. Rejoice everyone, things are just a bit off and there is nothing at all to worry about. They have an index that says so.


I think I may just finally go buy a house after all.

Not directed at you, but to determine if this is a trend at least you would have to look and see what the usually variation YoY is to see if a 30% variation is particularly out of the ordinary. Honestly the bear blogs are just as bad as anyone else when it comes to cherry picking numbers and presenting them out of context.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Minister Robathan posted:

I stopped reading here. You could have great, excellent points in the rest of it, but I don't care. gently caress you. This is some of the most bigoted poo poo I've ever seen in D&D.

I.. Just... I have no words.

I've heard nothing but shunning and alienation from anglophones trying to live anywhere in Quebec other than Montreal. I wouldn't want to move anywhere I don't speak the language, specially when I'd be outright shunned. Kinda hard to build up a new social network when you can't even communicate and some people will even hate you for it. Maybe it's not so bad, but I've had friends that actually spoke some survival-french move just outside Quebec city and they said it was hell, no one would have anything to do with them and they were constantly asked why they moved there, why don't they move to some city in english Canada and so on. Heck my friend's mom ended up moving from a small town in Quebec because she was from Paris and constantly got poo poo on for her language. The idea of moving somewhere where I'll always be an outsider, always be an unwanted "other" is terrifying.

Really? Small town quebec francophones can be really mean to anglophone outsiders is the most bigoted thing you've read on D&D???

Anyways, sorry to vent. This thread isn't about relocation it's just about bubbles and markets.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Mar 20, 2013

Minister Robathan
Jan 3, 2007

The Alien Leader of Transportation

Baronjutter posted:

I've heard nothing but shunning and alienation from anglophones trying to live anywhere in Quebec other than Montreal. I wouldn't want to move anywhere I don't speak the language, specially when I'd be outright shunned. Kinda hard to build up a new social network when you can't even communicate and some people will even hate you for it. Maybe it's not so bad, but I've had friends that actually spoke some survival-french move just outside Quebec city and they said it was hell, no one would have anything to do with them and they were constantly asked why they moved there, why don't they move to some city in english Canada and so on. Heck my friend's mom ended up moving from a small town in Quebec because she was from Paris and constantly got poo poo on for her language. The idea of moving somewhere where I'll always be an outsider, always be an unwanted "other" is terrifying.

Really? Small town quebec francophones can be really mean to anglophone outsiders is the most bigoted thing you've read on D&D???

Anyways, sorry to vent. This thread isn't about relocation it's just about bubbles and markets.

Yeah, because the only places in Canada where french is spoken as a primary language is just outside of Quebec City, and in small towns throughout Quebec. You have no idea what you are talking about, and basically said "I can't go live in that part of town, there are jews/blacks/natives/chinese/etc." Seriously, take a step back, relax, and move on.

ocrumsprug
Sep 23, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Throatwarbler posted:

Not directed at you, but to determine if this is a trend at least you would have to look and see what the usually variation YoY is to see if a 30% variation is particularly out of the ordinary. Honestly the bear blogs are just as bad as anyone else when it comes to cherry picking numbers and presenting them out of context.

Actually, the trend is not the interesting bit because who knows if it is a trend. Certainly the real estate boards do, but they are busy obfuscating the numbers.

The part of the post that I thought was interesting was that a -40% mean and -50% median YoY decline can be listed as a -5% YoY decline in the media, and gets taken seriously.

ocrumsprug fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Mar 20, 2013

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Paper Mac posted:

This is a profoundly sick way to understand the value of community.

Oh please, spare me your sanctimonious bullshit about 'community'. Vancouverites are humungous assholes who don't give a poo poo about anything other than themselves.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

How exactly do they get all these stats and averages and which ones actually matter and paint the most accurate picture? I'll hear things like "Housing prices actually holding steady!" but then see all around me condos and houses selling for like 20% or more less than they did a few years ago. Because I've been aggressively looking at units I've absolutely noticed a downward trend. A couple years ago 250k could not get me a "good" unit, a year ago it barely could, and now 250k is finding me even bigger and higher quality units.

Then I'll read poo poo like "Condo market stable despite increased supply, in fact many condos are selling for above offering price and even bidding wars! Average house is actually starting to go UP so buy now". Are they just outright lying or are they cherry-picking stats to tell half-truths?

Cultural Imperial posted:

Oh please, spare me your sanctimonious bullshit about 'community'. Vancouverites are humungous assholes who don't give a poo poo about anything other than themselves.

That is the most actually bigoted thing I've read in this thread

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Mr. Wynand posted:

Well like I said, your 20s are the time to do that. But really, this neither here nor there. The kind of uprooting stress inflicted on working professionals by awsome job offers abroad is not exactly the social problem I have in mind.

Having jobs available in a wide variety of fields is, but having to leave town because the top of your field is centered elsewhere is more of a "lategame" type of urban social issue.

Having worked with a shitload of antipodeans in europe, I'm really distressed to learn that Canadians are such weak hearted pansies that they could never ever consider leaving home for better opportunities abroad. We should all just give up now and fold this country so we won't have to put up a fight when the russians and americans come for our natural resources.

We'll still have our precious communities.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Does anyone know how a house price index is actually calculated?

ocrumsprug
Sep 23, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Cultural Imperial posted:

Does anyone know how a house price index is actually calculated?

How the HPI is determined.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

Baronjutter posted:

That is the most actually bigoted thing I've read in this thread

Hey just move to the GTA you'll fit right in, trust me!

Mrs. Wynand
Nov 23, 2002

DLT 4EVA

Cultural Imperial posted:

Having worked with a shitload of antipodeans in europe, I'm really distressed to learn that Canadians are such weak hearted pansies that they could never ever consider leaving home for better opportunities abroad. We should all just give up now and fold this country so we won't have to put up a fight when the russians and americans come for our natural resources.

We'll still have our precious communities.

You seem to be taking this very personally. By all means, feel free to bootstraps yourself into a more productive and affluent community. From Fort McMurray all the way to Whistler Village!

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

Thanks!

This is kinda cool.

quote:

The MLS® HPI model is used to calculate Benchmark Prices. A “Benchmark home” is one whose
attributes are typical of homes traded in the area where it is located, one being generated for each
supported sub-area. Benchmark property descriptions are based on median values for quantitative
property attributes (e.g. above ground living area in square feet), and the most commonly occurring
value (i.e. modal value) for qualitative attributes (e.g. basement is not finished).

Imagine how messed up this benchmark could get with houses in areas where it is known that illegal and therefore undocumented secondary suites are rife.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Cultural Imperial posted:

Oh please, spare me your sanctimonious bullshit about 'community'. Vancouverites are humungous assholes who don't give a poo poo about anything other than themselves.

Are you... from here? I've lived here a good chunk of my life and we're far from the most impolite city around. It's not Victoria, but still, every time I hear this it baffles me - are you just always on Granville street during club hours or something?

Dr. Witherbone
Nov 1, 2010

CHEESE LOOKS ON IN
DESPAIR BUT ALSO WITH
AN ERECTION

JawKnee posted:

Are you... from here? I've lived here a good chunk of my life and we're far from the most impolite city around. It's not Victoria, but still, every time I hear this it baffles me - are you just always on Granville street during club hours or something?

As someone who has spent a good life-chunk in Vancouver, I have to agree. Vancouver is a fairly polite place.

I will say that if there's one place that "we should get together sometime" is most meaningless, it's Vancouver. When I moved, that phrase instantly changed from nicety to actual intent to hang out.

But that's all anecdotal evidence so it could be that I was utterly hated in Vancouver or something for all you know :shrug:

enough of all this, though, this is a housing thread. Let's hear about housing problems outside of BC to shift the conversation, I guess? I'm the wrong person to ask for them, but we have gotten pretty BC-centric lately, admittedly because Van. is where poo poo is going down most, but let's see what's happening elsewhere.

max4me
Jun 15, 2003

by FactsAreUseless

shots shots shots posted:

As long as a significant block of people (typically unsophisticated investors who distrust other asset classes) view real estate as an investment rather than a consumption good, it's an almost unsolvable problem, especially if they have savings.

This is a half truth. I own a handful of houses. (which is funny cause I live in apartment) The idea of a house as an investment is rather muddled. Most of the unsophisticated investors or just people buying were counting on appreciation that out striped inflation. Alot of people got hosed because they bought at a price level that just couldnt be supported by rents.

The last house I bought was a short sale. And it was a very good bargain. If someone bought with traditional financing their payment would be 45% of what the rent is.

The rental is getting me 12% return on my money after carry costs. Between my family and my cousins we own 4 houses on the same street. This is because of the price is the neighborhood is cheap. One friend asked why we didnt buy in a "nicer" place.

I explained that it boils down to cost if I buy a house in the newer part of town the cost literally triples and I start getting 4% return for my money.

When it comes to real estate the bubble was flued by so much greed and corruption and flat out propaganda that sound economic thinking just went out the window.

But any investor should be thinking what his ROI is and if prices are too high then they too wouldnt buy. Hell I backed out of another Short Sale deal when I realized the the house was soo trashed it would take up 57% more than the cost of the house to repair everything.

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Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

Cultural Imperial posted:

Oh please, spare me your sanctimonious bullshit about 'community'. Vancouverites are humungous assholes who don't give a poo poo about anything other than themselves.

Project much?

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