Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

I used to save so much money not owning/maintaining a car and living near the subway. Pretty much never encountered any mental health cases and only one train pisser in the 4 years I lived in Toronto. LRT in Calgary for 9 years was also fine.

Commuting by car is stressful and I really do miss the subway and it sucks living in a city with terrible mass transit.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2017 21:25

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 06:58

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

You can get sirius for less than $16/month, just pay for a year at a time and threaten to leave every time you're up for renewal.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2017 20:08

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Yeah it's not like a sudden flood of housing on the market will drag prices back down or anything.

And it's not like boomers haven't spent years borrowing against that paper equity to help buy high priced houses for their kids in Vancouver and the GTA.

Yeah, everything's going to be fiiiiiiiine.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2017 15:07

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

Is shadow impacts a euphemism for black people moving in?

Shadow impacts (like wind tunneling) can be a legit problem when a lot of high rise buildings are built close together that leave some residents in perpetual shadow regardless of season, but this is just a bunch of nimby's that don't want densification or poor people in their neighbourhood. There are no tall buildings immediately nearby from what I can see on google maps and 8 stories ain't that bad.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 14:40

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Kraftwerk posted:

Does this mean I'm hosed when my lease comes up for renewal next year? I really don't want to get forced out of my unit, I'm very happy where I am and the last thing I need is to get wiped out by a 400 dollar increase.

It's up to your landlord and what the market will bear, but you do get to negotiate and you should do so. Look for comparable units on the market and compare what you're paying, ask your neighbours what they pay, and be ready to sell yourself (assuming you actually are a good tenant). A smart landlord doesn't want yearly turnover or to lose a good tenant, so negotiate with this in mind and be willing to move out if you don't like the offer you receive.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 19:20

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

mojo1701a posted:

The only real interim benefit is to borrow against any unrealized gains, and unfortunately, more and more Canadians are relying on HELOC's.

If you have an insane appetite for risk you can do the Smith Manoeuvre with all that unearned bubble equity. Double your leverage, double your fun!

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 19:37

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Kraftwerk posted:

What is classified as a "good tenant"? I always pay my bills, have impeccable credit, don't smoke and anyone who does goes on the balcony, live 5 minutes away from where I work, keep the place clean, no pets and am the sole occupant. The only "bad" things are that the ceramic stovetop has some oil stains I can't seem to wipe up and there are a few scuff marks from furniture in the entrance hall after I moved in.

That's all good. If you don't piss off your neighbours or cost your landlord a lot of time/money then if they're smart they'll want to keep you around. There are no guarantees though; one year in Calgary my rent almost doubled and considering it was still $400 less than new tenants were paying there wasn't much I could do to negotiate against that and it was 'take it or leave it'. It sounds like you're paying around market rates though. Good luck.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 19:47

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

mastershakeman posted:

Only if they seek it, which didn't happen in the US for whatever reason

Do you mean homeowners in the USA were selling instead of allowing their house to go into foreclosure? I have no idea why they would do this as they are then taking on the losses that the bank would otherwise incur. With a non-recourse mortgage the borrower can walk away - they lose their invested equity but they're not on the hook for any shortfall when the bank later sells the house.

e: oops, added missing 'non-'

Cold on a Cob fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Feb 24, 2017

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 21:01

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

mastershakeman posted:

no i mean that even though the lender got a judgment for the shortfall against the person, they never collected. I worked tens of thousands of foreclosure cases in the usa and only heard of it happening one time ever and that was a 'this time its personal' type case.

Where was this, if you don't mind me asking? I know recourse mortgages exist in the USA but I've been lead to believe they are fairly uncommon.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2017 01:37

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

HookShot posted:

Oh so there's no real issue with plumbing and stuff? That's cool, I always figured it would be really hard to do.

There actually can be issues with the plumbing i.e. backflow problems into other people's sinks and other units losing water pressure or running all hot/cold. This is even with portable units. They are also a big source of leaks - that's why most modern buildings with ensuite units have special closets with drainage built especially for them.

You might not have a landlord but you still have a condo board who can take legal action against you. Check your rules - if they specifically allow them, then you're good, but don't be surprised if there's a rule against them.

Also if you are allowed, make absolutely sure your insurance covers leaks.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2017 01:53

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

EvilJoven posted:

Hypothetically it can count against you when applying for things like mortgages but my wife and I have both been sporting unused unsecured five figure LOCs for a decade now without consiquence.

If it's unused it shouldn't cause issues with applying for a mortgage or other credit in terms of how much they will give you. They look at your total debts, not available credit, or so I was told by my mortgage broker. I believe it can lower your credit score though but good luck finding hard evidence on credit score calculations either way.

More importantly, a line of credit is controlled by the bank and your access can be withdrawn at any time. If you rack up a lot of debt quickly and are only making minimum payments they might decide to not let you make further withdrawals. So for a one-off unexpected expense it might be fine, but for a 'lost my job' emergency where you withdraw monthly and make minimum payments, it might not work so well.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2017 19:42

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Jimbozig posted:

I think the solution to this housing issue is supply-side solutions. Namely, forcibly removing all the empty nesters and retirees from their 3br+ houses and moving them into appropriately sized condos instead, allowing young families to move into the bigger homes.

Just a thought I had while seeing a bunch of old folks wandering around with their dogs outside the detached homes in my neighbourhood while the families with kids all live in the condo buildings. A straight-up trade would be very economically efficient.

Something like 80% of people die in their oversized home instead of selling it like they planned.

I'm trying my best to convince my in-laws to sell their 3BR home and it's slow going but the market is so hot that greed might finally get them to pull the trigger.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2017 15:27

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

If someone is capable of taking care of themselves and wants to stay in their house, that's one thing. But if you can't keep up with your chores it's not fair to let your neighbours mow your lawn and shovel your walk and let your kids to clean your house because you're too stubborn to move.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2017 18:51

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

etalian posted:

lmao the Canadian federal government is having to bail out bankrupt Albertan energy companies

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-oilwells-orphans-idUSKBN16E2I1

Bubbles are great as long the government and tax payer is on the hook for cleanup costs!

Nice. How loving hard would it be to make investors put cleanup money into escrow before starting a project?

I know the answer would be NO WAY IT MIGHT SLOW ECONOMIC GROWTH but I can dream can't I?

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 00:32

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Powershift posted:

They should just build luxury condos on top of the well, sell them to foreign investors, and then hit them with a special assessment to cement it off.

Actually the whole "abandoned projects costing taxpayers money" reminds me of failed condo projects... Anyone else remember the holes in the ground in Calgary circa ~2009 where condos were supposed to go up until the developers went bankrupt?

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 02:56

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

cowofwar posted:

Townhomes are built very poorly in BC and probably the rest of Canada, rapidly thrown up wood-framed, particle boards, and leaky. I think the insulation is considered structural.

My step sister got screwed on a leaky condo because the seller was the strata board president who managed to mislead on all the pertinent details on the sale by "losing" relevant minutes.

Last year I looked into townhouses for purchase in the GTA and I decided against it for this exact reason. Same with low-rise condos - especially wood-framed ones. So many of them had special assessments against them.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 15:35

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

namaste faggots posted:

OMG that guy's right!

*Immediately liquidates RRSP and spends it on Lotto MAX tickets*

# ¿ Mar 22, 2017 19:39

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

This is nuts. I'd love to see him do this for condos too.

quote:

I wanted to see if there was any quantitative evidence that would confirm our anecdotal observations about investor demand for single family homes in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) and assess the role this might be playing in the rapid price appreciation we are seeing.

...

I had to innovate a reasonable way to get a look at the investors I was interested in so to quantify this investor demand, I looked at every freehold house (detached, semi and rowhouse house as opposed to condo) that has sold over the past five years and then checked to see what percentage of buyers listed their property for rent shortly after taking possession.

What I found was that these investors are responsible for 17-21% of all sales in Aurora, Newmarket and Richmond Hill and 36-39% of all sales in some of the GTA�s hottest neighbourhoods.

Whitby, Ajax and Oshawa all saw the steepest increase in sales to investors of over 400% in just 4 years.

There were signs of rising investor activity across the GTA - and zeroing in showing that some areas and neighbourhoods were showing sharper increases than others.

By looking at actual sales and rental data, I was also able to estimate the monthly profit or losses that these single family home investments were generating. In doing this, I had to make the assumption of a 35% down payment with typical mortgage terms (I discussed my methodology in more detail in my full report).

Based on this, I estimated that 95% of the investment properties purchased in 2016 in the GTA would be losing money every month (meaning these owners would have to personally cover the carrying costs of the property because the rent alone is not sufficient to cover expenses).

The average monthly loss per property in 2016 was $1,121.

Rest of article: http://www.movesmartly.com/2017/03/data-shows-nvestors-are-speculating-on-single-family-homes-across-gta.html

Or just go straight to their report: http://realosophyrealty.blob.core.windows.net/static/InvestorDemandHouses.pdf

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 15:40

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

EvilJoven posted:

How about you shut the gently caress up and I'll call on you if I need someone to go down in the tunnel with the nitro and set the charge.

These Heritage Minutes are getting out of control.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:18

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Femtosecond posted:

I tried to change the subject but failed.

I posted a thing I thought that was pretty interesting where a realtor tried to estimate how many sales of freehold properties in Toronto are actually investment properties but then truck chat happened.

Cold on a Cob posted:

This is nuts. I'd love to see him do this for condos too.

quote:
I wanted to see if there was any quantitative evidence that would confirm our anecdotal observations about investor demand for single family homes in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) and assess the role this might be playing in the rapid price appreciation we are seeing.

...

I had to innovate a reasonable way to get a look at the investors I was interested in so to quantify this investor demand, I looked at every freehold house (detached, semi and rowhouse house as opposed to condo) that has sold over the past five years and then checked to see what percentage of buyers listed their property for rent shortly after taking possession.

What I found was that these investors are responsible for 17-21% of all sales in Aurora, Newmarket and Richmond Hill and 36-39% of all sales in some of the GTA�s hottest neighbourhoods.

Whitby, Ajax and Oshawa all saw the steepest increase in sales to investors of over 400% in just 4 years.

There were signs of rising investor activity across the GTA - and zeroing in showing that some areas and neighbourhoods were showing sharper increases than others.

By looking at actual sales and rental data, I was also able to estimate the monthly profit or losses that these single family home investments were generating. In doing this, I had to make the assumption of a 35% down payment with typical mortgage terms (I discussed my methodology in more detail in my full report).

Based on this, I estimated that 95% of the investment properties purchased in 2016 in the GTA would be losing money every month (meaning these owners would have to personally cover the carrying costs of the property because the rent alone is not sufficient to cover expenses).

The average monthly loss per property in 2016 was $1,121.

Rest of article: http://www.movesmartly.com/2017/03/data-shows-nvestors-are-speculating-on-single-family-homes-across-gta.html

Or just go straight to their report: http://realosophyrealty.blob.core.windows.net/static/InvestorDemandHouses.pdf

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 20:12

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Splitting property with someone is the dumbest version of the dumb idea of buying overpriced property you're not even going to live in.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 20:56

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Powershift posted:

Really? the dumbest?

How about a time share with management fees?

I was using hyperbole, but honestly a timeshare (while dumb) might not be as dumb as it's usually better thought out.

edit: i.e. The developers actually think about and plan for the difficulties of shared ownership when setting one up. At least in theory. A little better than "buying a cottage with my friend from college" I would think. But still dumb.

Cold on a Cob fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 24, 2017

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 21:03

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

yippee cahier posted:

I want to blame these folks for high rents, but they're subsidizing rents by doing this. At the height of the bubble. Mind boggling.

I'm pretty confident my landlord is losing money on my condo in Mississauga. I'm paying less rent than the mortgage alone would be if I bought it with 10% down, nevermind taxes and condo fees.

With all the stories about rents going up ridiculous amounts for condos in the GTA lately I wonder if it's because investor landlords are now freaking out at how leveraged they are and realizing they bought into an inflated market.

Femtosecond posted:

Looks like the Globe wrote an article about this study too. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/investors-super-heating-the-toronto-market/article34380897/

An SFU professor had a look at GTA population growth and concluded that supply creation was meeting that, so it's likely that speculative demand is what is driving prices in Toronto.

I'd be interesting to see a similar study in Vancouver. I've seen mixed things about whether Metro Vancouver is keeping up with population growth. I think I read that some municipalities are in line with expected growth but others are way behind. This may just mean that people guessed poorly at where they thought people would move to in the region.

Very interesting, thanks for this. I've been sending these articles to my father in law to convince him to sell and move somewhere cheaper as this bubble can't last forever.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 21:23

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

namaste faggots posted:

And is it working? Why or why not?

If this is directed at my comment about my father in law, the answer is... I think so. He sees the logic in it but we'll see. There's a reasonable chance he'll drag his feet until it's too late.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 23:45

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

NZAmoeba posted:

Hello! I'm a kiwi living in Auckland, which also has the same housing bubble bullshit as Toronto. I've got a 2 year working holiday visa for Canada and I'm looking at rents in Montreal. If I'm able to find a job that even pays just 75% of what I'm earning now (and NZ is not known for it's high wages) I can live like a loving king.

Don't forget that unlike NZ we have tipping in Canada, so you're expected to tip your landlord 15% minimum with every month's rent.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2017 22:53

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

All the anglos I know that did and/or continue to do ok in Montreal are in IT. The ones that left were not.

We're not talking a huge sample size though, tbh.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2017 23:46

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

In my neighbourhood it would get you a townhouse, depending on how many bids you end up going up against: https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/17972213/25-5230-GLEN-ERIN-Drive-Mississauga-Ontario-L5M5Z7

There are also houses listed under 650 but honestly those will get bid up: https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/17956085/1218-NORTHMOUNT-Avenue-Mississauga-Ontario-L5E1X9-Lakeview

I'd rather live in Toronto but I can't justify the cost of housing and I have a good job here so I'll just rent for now.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 17:44

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

namaste faggots posted:

https://www.biv.com/article/2017/4/seattle-beats-vancouver-software-engineers-study/

how in the gently caress did they come up with only 55k for a software dev salary? i would have expected at least 75k for an average

and that salary for SF looks a bit low too tbh

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 19:54

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

namaste faggots posted:

It says right on the poster, Glassdoor.

That's gotta be in USD then because Glassdoor pretty much agrees with my guess:

glassdoor posted:

How much does a Software Engineer make in Vancouver, BC?
The average salary for a Software Engineer is $72,000. Salaries estimates based on 944 salaries submitted anonymously to Glassdoor by Software Engineer employees in Vancouver, BC.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 20:05

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Rime posted:

Yeah the last tower I worked on was supposedly sold out, but more than half the units were being shown by Realtors. I couldn't figure out if it was on behalf of offshore owners wanting to flip for Canadian cash as soon as the tower was finished, or if there's really that many Realtors turning all their cash into 3-5 units each for mad flippage, or if 604 Realty had just bought most of the tower itself with the intention to flip.

Either way, shits hosed yo.

Friends and family of developers get first dibs on condos before they go up for pre-sale to the rest of us plebs. I'm sure a lot of those people turn around and flip the units.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle30498453/

# ¿ Apr 4, 2017 23:22

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Risky Bisquick posted:

An aside, this is a 10-20k CAPEX year on maintenance items for my house.

That's ok just HELOC your way to a perfect house, I'm sure you'll never end up underwater.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 14:57

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

I remember when the rule of thumb was to expect to lose money if you sold your house within 7 years of purchase. :allears:

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 17:22

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Risky Bisquick posted:

ClosIng costs, land transfer fees, and lawyers both ways is still fairly expensive.

Yeah exactly, it used to be that with expected appreciation it would take 5 to 7 years for you to break even after closing costs. I sold a house after two years in Hamilton and made a 26% annualized return rate after accounting for closing costs.

This market is nuts.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 18:35

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

RBC posted:

hey this is a thread about the housing bubble, not a place to brag about how much money you have

When's this dang bubble in the GTA going to pop already?

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 20:57

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Throatwarbler posted:

I don't understand who the target market is for articles like this. Yes, people buy things and sell them for more than they paid. That's literally the basis for a capitalist economy. How is it a "Ponzi scheme"? Do words mean things anymore

As much as I am worried about the Canadian economy with respect to real estate, it definitely isn't a Ponzi or MLM scheme.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2017 21:51

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

quote:

That burden of proof was enough to convince Joseph, who stood up and headed for a registration table to pay for the course. �I just know I want to be around mansions,� he said. �I look at them. I�m in love with them. I study them.� His future house: �Marble floor. 30-foot ceilings. Maybe a tennis court, maybe not a tennis court (I�m not really a tennis guy.) And a big, big, big hangar for a variety of cars.�

Joseph currently lives with roommates in an apartment in East York for $800 per month. He works going door-to-door selling solar panels on commission. He was formerly a college basketball player and lived in Windsor with his mother, a personal support worker, but he says, �I left my family to find wealth.�

Wow.

Just amazing.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2017 15:48

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

DariusLikewise posted:

Way too many people I know simply look at what a mortgage will cost vs. rent and make their decision based off that. No one ever accounts for property tax, insurance, heating, water, electricity, maintenance in general and cash for when things break.

Also lost investment gains if you invested your down payment instead.

But I guess if the Bank of Mom & Dad is providing your down payment that's not really a concern. :haw:

edit: Granted if you purchase, you have to also account for appreciation and principal you pay down, but it's still not a 1:1 no matter how you look at it.

Cold on a Cob fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Apr 10, 2017

# ¿ Apr 10, 2017 16:54

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Fried Watermelon posted:

Where does "pride of ownership" land on a balance sheet

Pride of ownership goeth before a fall in home equity.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2017 00:09

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

peter banana posted:

Prices rose 33% in Toronto, eh? That's cute.

http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/home-prices-soared-in-the-barrie-area-in-march-1.3362455

Prices rising 80% in a backwater town with a population of 21,000?

That's fine. Everything is fine.

Everything.

Is totally.

Fine.

We're in for such a hard landing.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2017 18:11

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 06:58

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

DariusLikewise posted:

Interest rates held at .5%

Goddammit.

gently caress it, gonna move into a rent-controlled dump and hoard gold until I die.

mojo1701a posted:

Oh agreed. For what it is, Swiss Chalet's pretty good. It doesn't at least pretend that it's fine dining.

Swiss Chalet, like most chains, is surprisingly inconsistent. I used to live by one in Toronto that was very good. The one nearest to me in Hamilton was loving awful so I never ever ordered delivery there, but there was another one I would drive to that was consistently decent. The one near me in Mississauga is absolutely wretched though, but I don't care because I just go to Nando's instead now.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2017 18:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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