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Crappy Jack posted:Honestly, the violent deaths bother me, but ultimately more so because we've literally seen more footage of Lara getting beaten up and murdered than we have of any actual gameplay. I don't know what the systems handle like, I haven't seen a single tomb or new moves, I don't know who any of the characters are, but I sure as hell know that Lara can die violently. The marketing on this is so hosed. Yeah, this is what makes the death stuff so uncomfortable. Every time I look for stuff on this game I'm just bombarded with "Lara dies horribly" or "Lara is endangered and weak" poo poo. It really is like someone is advertising a snuff film game, except even freaking Manhunt showed more gameplay than this. There is gameplay footage out there but it inexplicably isn't the focus of the marketing.
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Feb 20, 2013 16:14
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User0015 posted:It really didn't. It was just a simple story about saving your sister, with a lot of background story and setup that didn't really get covered in detail due to the nature of the game. I think having a game like this where the player can actually learn things instead of literally rushing from A to B will let her flex her writing ability in more creative ways than outsourced cartoons and brief 1st person interludes before cops show up run run. The story literally features the police training EVIL PARKOUR COPS. It's really stupid.
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Feb 25, 2013 02:55
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Ronnie posted:As long as this doesn't turn in to an Aliens: Colonial Marines I am happy. I'm pretty sure it isn't going to end up at 4.5 on Metacritic based on current reviews.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:00
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Kilometers Davis posted:You guys. The idea of Uncharted minus the stupid IM A MOVIE ALSO CLIMB AROUND ON ROCKS AND LEDGES ALL DAY plus Metroid style exploration plus brutal violent deaths is pretty much the best thing I've heard in a long time. Plus a classic yet refocused female lead in an action game. In my opinion this is how mature games should be opposed to bullshit like David Cage thinking maturity = deep pseudo intellectual farting (and I liked Heavy Rain). Hopefully it's going to be exciting, cringe inducing, and very gamey. Why does "brutal violent death" equal maturity, out of curiosity? I don't think violence in video games is inherently a bad thing but I have to say what it most often is is immature. It is gore porn at its most basic in a lot of cases, there for simple gross out or shock value. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's about as far from a mature handling of violence and death as I can think of. You can do a lot with implied violence that you can't do with active brutal onscreen violence. To use an example, The Dark Knight's infamous 'pen trick' is all camera angles and no gore but it manages to be shocking none the less. Gore in excess only serves to weaken the overall effect when gore does appear because it becomes commonplace, while a lot of good films and games can do a lot with a little bit of violence in the right place at the right time. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 06:21
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Dominic White posted:Batman Begins might have had a somewhat darker, more human point of origin, but we still ended up with Batman by the end.. On the other hand by the end of the trilogy we ended up with "Batman is fundamentally damaging both physically and mentally to the person being Batman and the happiest possible ending is not being Batman." So simply because the basic events are the same doesn't mean the tone is, and I think the tone issues are what is getting people here. I think, to be honest, what is putting people off the most is that the earlier games were Indiana Jones. They had gore and they had violence but it wasn't the focus. Indiana Jones has extreme violence (face melting, hearts getting ripped out) but it's almost always cloaked in the fantastical. The new one comes across a lot more like a completely different genre of film. I don't think that's necessarily wrong but it is worth pointing out that someone who likes the "boy becomes a hero" aspect of Batman won't necessarily like the "this is a crippling mental disorder" Batman. Likewise someone who liked Tomb Raider because it was an awesome Indiana Jones power fantasy might not be as happy with "Lara is a hardened killer whose desire to survive comes before all else" even if they're hitting the same points. Chillmatic posted:Sorry but he/she's right. Isaac Clark getting his head ripped off and replaced by a monster was, in fact, extremely uncomfortable to watch and I recall it coming up repeatedly in the Dead Space thread. It just also wasn't the primary focus of the marketing. Not to mention games like Manhunt where there was plenty of talk about how the kills were uncomfortable and disgusting or how the Punisher game needed its executions put in black-and-white to avoid an AO rating or... countless other things involving male characters. The violence that gets ignored tends to be 'fantasy' stuff. People get way more skeeved out by anything remotely realistic. (Thus why the "eye poke" in Dead Space 2 is infinitely creepier and more offputting than the giant swarm of zombie mutants.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 16:29
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Dominic White posted:Pretty much how things went in the comics. He ended up a downright paranoid, miserable old bat-dude who perpetually kept friends at arms length even when he was part of the Jusice League. No it isn't because Batman has literally been everything in the comics. Pretty recently he came back from a time travelling adventure and realized that being a miserable paranoid Bat-dude wasn't how he wanted to live and that he depended on his family and friends despite his best attempts to keep them at arms length. Then he created Batman Inc where he set out to fund and train heroes publically and revealed that Bruce Wayne was funding Batman the entire time. Going "this is what Batman IS" is a lot harder because Batman has been everything under the sun. Tomb Raider's a bit more static and defined and so a switch in tone feels more out of place, especially when marketed badly. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 16:38
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Irish Joe posted:That's a ridiculous argument, though. Its like saying the Saw movies are less violent on VHS than blu-ray because they're in a lower resolution. We all know that isn't the case. The violence and brutality of an act isn't diminished by picture quality. The same applies to video games. Regardless of how many polygons Lara has, you're still seeing a virtual representation of a human being brutally killed/murdered. What? You're seriously arguing that this:  and this:  Are indistinguishable? I'm not even cherry-picking here, I went for one of the goriest and most uncomfortable "old-school" games I could think of. I mean I will argue that beyond a certain point, yes, it's still pretty uncomfortable but there is diminishing going on through weaker visuals. That said: You can have a game with no violence and still have incredibly uncomfortable deaths: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYyZfME5XYY It really depends on how you play it. Heart of Darkness is rated E for everyone but the tone and atmosphere (and the age of the protagonist) really do a lot to make the death scenes pretty uncomfortable to encounter. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 17:05
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Control Volume posted:I wonder if this game is fun to play Reviews suggest yes. v  v
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Feb 27, 2013 17:10
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Samurai Sanders posted:Far Cry 3 was somewhat better in this regard (from one perspective anyway) since your character is the chosen one and has literal magic jungle powers, so it makes sense that he becomes a killing machine quickly. His reactions in the game still don't match though, he still says "ugh barf" after the 2637th wild animal he skins. Well, to be fair, the intent of the FC3 writer was also for that disconnect to be there and to make fun of that sort of stuff in games. The writer just... wasn't very good at it. At all.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:32
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To be honest if it hits Arkham City balance between combat and exploration I think that'd be pretty great.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:41
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ZeeBoi posted:No, the loving morons are in this thread getting their panties in a twist over death scenes just because the character is a young woman. It's okay to play murder simulators but heaven forbid if it's not a space marine white guy. Then it HAS to be misogynist, sexist, racist or whatever else. Why is why the discussion has included Far Cry, Heart of Darkness, Batman, Uncharted and Dead Space? Aside from the "young girl" guy the discussion has primarily been about realistic violence vs unrealistic violence and the lovely marketing vs what the actual game depicts. At worst people have said the marketing is lovely which... it is? Even the actual writer of the game said it was misrepresenting the game. Paul Allen posted:I can't believe I forgot to mention this. Holy balls, that's awesome.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:25
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Dan Didio posted:I enjoyed it, but I thought all the current-gen Tomb Raider games were really bland and forgettable. I'm not really sad that they're not continuing in that vein. "Bland and forgettable" really describes the modern TR games to me. Uncharted captured their tone, if not their gameplay, way better.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:31
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Dan Didio posted:Oh, wow, there was a HD re-release of Silent Hill 3? Sweet. It is very bad. You don't want to pay money for it. (The port, not the game.)
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Feb 27, 2013 21:58
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lady blue shanghai posted:Wondering how much forced stealth is gonna be in this game. The trailer I saw was weird. All of the marketing has been weird. I think everyone can agree that TR's marketing is a complete clusterfuck.
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Feb 28, 2013 00:51
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Samurai Sanders posted:Huh? There's no mystery to me. They want it to compete with Uncharted so all its promo videos look like Uncharted except with Lara. They don't really though. If it looked like Uncharted with Lara then we'd not be having these discussions about the crap-rear end marketing.
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Feb 28, 2013 05:19
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Winks posted:What is it with Square and hair? Not that I'm complaining because it looks cool. Hopefully the port is good because I couldn't justify 60 dollars over effectively 28. Hair is something a lot of developers ignore because it's really really hard. A big reason that so many protagonists are short-haired, bald, or wearing helmets/hoodies/ect is because it gives them a convenient excuse to not have to try to make hair not look like poo poo. It's less that Square has a thing for hair and more than most developers just don't give a poo poo so any focus on making hair look good is surprising.
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Mar 1, 2013 19:12
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Man, Nier is a loving good game, but I totally understood why it reviewed poorly. I love Nier, it's one of my favorite games, but taken objectively it has a lot of problems. I don't care because I'm willing to overlook them but if you're not they can easily ruin the game.
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Mar 3, 2013 03:57
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Camaro83 posted:Anybody know what the cheapest PC preorder deal is? Green Man Gaming is like $34 with the 20% coupon.
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Mar 4, 2013 19:44
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Camaro83 posted:Thanks! Gotta love PC prices. Yes, they e-mail you the code very quickly. A friend of mine preordered this morning using exactly what I mentioned and got the code within 30 minutes.
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Mar 4, 2013 19:50
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Dan Didio posted:People, including me, were criticizing the fact that the game gives you xp for killing with headshosts, etc. etc. pre-release, but that's not anywhere near of a conflict with narrative as it initially appeared. I strongly disagree. The headshot indicator completely is massively at odds with everything else in the game. The very first kill that is within the player's direct control is a insane tone difference from everything around it, not to mention scenes like "No, no, stay back, you don't have to do this" right as the game sets up a massive flaming lantern for you to drop on the enemies. The game in general has really serious issues with veering between trying to have a narrative and trying to be a video game. It's a fun video game but holy poo poo do the gameplay aspects conflict with the storyline aspects. Even in little ways, like being in a flaming room but having to go back two rooms in order to light your torch in order to set a doodad on fire. I think the marketing is out of tone but at least part of that is that the game is also all over the place. It gets better as it goes on but there is some drastic oddity between Lara as presented and Lara in gameplay and what the gameplay encourages. The billion doodads don't help that much either as they don't help the tone issues much. It's by no means crippling and in fact lends itself towards better gameplay, but it's pretty clear Tomb Raider is a game first and a narrative second. I will say that I don't care because the game itself is pretty fun. Although I will warn people that it's pretty straightforwardly linear, even compared to something like Arkham City. You do occasionally venture back through previous areas but you're guided there by a fairly linear path as opposed to it feeling like a naturalistic return. You can Base Camp back to previous areas to find new items and equipment though, but it's more akin to fast travelling back to a previous level. Not entirely so as there is some revisiting, but it's far closer to that than a Metroid. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 01:56
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DangerKat posted:After the first hunt for food, aren't all future animal kills just to net more salvage parts? As in, mechanical salvage parts? I don't care if it is logically inconsistent, that just makes me laugh so much if it is true. Yeah, the 'survival' aspects are basically nonexistent. The only real to kill animals is for experience points. This game is so weird. It's half "Lara Croft is a murder vampire who grows stronger as she feeds on the souls of her enemies" and half "here are extended scenes of Lara getting the everliving poo poo kicked out of her." They really get a bit excessive with the beatings honestly. Getting a huge gouge torn out of you and then having to wade through sewage and THEN having to cauterize the wound with a heated arrowhead?
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Mar 5, 2013 15:22
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Evil Canadian posted:Yeah the game is pretty savage so far in its treatment to Lara but you know what, I kinda like it, most games you are never in a position of weakness and are just kicking rear end from the word go. I like that they don't shy away from it but on the other hand holy crap. I'm pretty sure she gets more poo poo beaten out of her in the first two hours than Nathan Drake does in all the Uncharted games combined. Beyond a certain point it almost starts to become comical because like gently caress how much more can she stand? Is she Wolverine?
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Mar 5, 2013 15:52
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Rainbow Teeth posted:Chris Thursten over at PC Gamer seems to echo a commonly held view: I think it bothers me insomuch as it feels like the developers were having fun figuring out how to hurt her next, as opposed to how her injuries show triumph over adversity. A lot of the time she seems to get her poo poo wrecked just to get her poo poo wrecked, not even to set up a plot point or gimmick area or something. A lot of the time it doesn't even seem to have meaningful repercussions, just Lara getting the crap kicked out of her and then she's fine by the next area so it can happen again. In a way it starts to feel meaningless because everything Lara does ends up with her getting brutalized. Instead of giving it a real sense of "holy poo poo, look how tough she is," it becomes "What the hell, this is getting ridiculous." It's violence without consequence heaped upon itself. It isn't anything that ruins the game for me but it does get pretty excessive. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 17:01
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FuSchnick posted:[Edit] Lara is still the Worst Archeologist Ever. I love how she goes on about how amazing a tomb is and then smashes it to pieces so she can loot the golden chest containing a gun part at the back. Ancient Japanese Gun Part.
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Mar 5, 2013 17:50
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NonzeroCircle posted:Does the initial developer logo screen (Steam version) look like a hideous graphics card glitch to anyone else? Rest of the game (well, I'm only just 10 mins in) seems fine, and GPU Tweak isn't showing anything I wouldn't expect, it just threw me for a bit of a loop when the first thing I saw looked like my old dead NVidia's final outputs. Yeah, that appears to be a reoccurring problem.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:04
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SurrealityCheck posted:Oh god. Egregious EGREGIOUS cut scene loss of power towards the end. Suddenly she's helpless again! :< Lara's cutscene weaknesses are infinitely loving frustrating. You can snipe dudes who are ranting wildly throughout the game until you're not allowed to snipe this dude so Lara can be a moron instead.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:51
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limited posted:Seeing as this is apparently less creepy than the marketing was suggesting, what's the replay potential on the game beyond scooping up all the collectibles? Is it the usual lazy HERE'S A NEW DIFFICULTY thing, or is there any sort of NG+ / unlocks type of thing? There's not much replay value beyond collectables. It's a very linear game.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:41
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:Played about 6 hours yesterday and holy poo poo the game feels super mean towards Lara. Otherwise I really like how they differentiated it from Uncharted. Its pretty obvious where inspiration came from, but I think it works well together. That comes up again later. When they're being even meaner to Lara.
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Mar 6, 2013 17:41
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Nyagato posted:I find it funny that Lara calls a "relic" from the edo period ancient. Lara says a lot of really hilarious stuff honestly. She's really really good at the murderin', but it takes her a solid minute of looking to read the names in a wallet.
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Mar 6, 2013 22:50
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Revitalized posted:Hell, why were the Solarii so scared of the dudes? The Solarii get their poo poo wrecked by a single 20-something girl who has never actually been in combat before. They're REALLY bad at the evil soldier thing.
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Mar 6, 2013 22:53
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ymgve posted:I found it interesting that they actually had a mirror in-game, because a lot of game engines these days don't bother to support it. Then again, it is also the only mirror I've seen in the game, so maybe they just cheated a bit in that spot. To be honest this just kind of reminds me that I dislike how inconsistent they are with injuries and general 'dirtiness.' It feels like the developers were afraid to go "Wait, someone who goes through all this stuff is going to look like poo poo at the end of the day" because Lara is, of course, an attractive 20-something and so you get a weird impermanance with anything that might make her look more that "kind of dirty." It stands out a lot with the river of blood where she inexplicably ends up no longer covered in blood after a couple of minutes. It wouldn't stand out except they place a weird emphasis on it when she does get injured/hurt/falls into a mud pit but don't actually stick with the consequences. The mirror scene is supposed to feel like "wow, look at how much has changed" but the biggest difference between Lara at the start and Lara at the end is that her shirt is dirtier.
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Mar 7, 2013 01:24
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Thievery posted:Yeah it's some kind of chemistry thing I guess? I dunno. That really did seem like the obvious thing to do. It's even weirder when Lara finally does get double pistols in the final cutscene.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:14
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Dan Didio posted:I thought it was a really neat subversion of expectation. She's still not there yet. That might work if she didn't spend the entire rest of the game murdering people effortlessly. If they were trying to go 'she's not quite there yet' they didn't really pull it off well considering both in and out of gameplay she's a massive murder machine who everyone is terrified by, a super genius awesome archaeologist, has braved the toughest conditions the world has to offer... she didn't really have far to go. This is less her origin and more like her first really bad day. Like for an origin story it's more like they began with Bruce Wayne putting on the batsuit. Basically the only thing she hasn't done is kill a guy, and even the original Tomb Raider made a big deal over killing a guy. I'm not complaining precisely but it's a lot more "Lara's first really weird adventure" and less "Lara's first real adventure." Which fits with Lara deciding she wants to investigate 'real' myths in the ending. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 05:18
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ViggyNash posted:Question about challenge tombs: All the tombs I've done so far have been pretty simple and utilize similar mechanics. The one tomb where the wind is blowing through the building was the only remotely unique one I've done so far. How many challenge tombs are there? And are there legitimately difficult ones out there? They are all incredibly simple, I'm afraid, and almost all just recycle the same handful of mechanics. The wind mechanic you saw is actually used for a later puzzle in the main storyline, you just get to encounter it earlier.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:28
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NESguerilla posted:Yeah he actually killed one of them and the other guy took like 10 seconds to stab him. I was kind of pissed the game wouldn't let me pop the knife guy in the head and save him. That happens all the time. There's like five different circumstances you could have ended the plot if the game didn't grab Lara and force her to do something stupid.
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Mar 7, 2013 07:02
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Chillmatic posted:Oh don't get all butthurt. If you're not one of the people i'm talking about then just don't worry about it. My point was that it's incredible that there's this much discussion on it at all, not that literally every single person here is doing it. Because, shockingly, other games are either less focused on injuries or more willing to actually acknowledge them. Look at the Batman games. Batman sure as gently caress is still Batman by the end of the game but he completely looks like he's been through a day (or days) of hell. He's got stubble, bruises and cuts, his cape is torn to shreds, and in general they emphasize "wow, poo poo, this guy got wrecked." In fact in the original Arkham Asylum, every permanent change to Batman's model matches to a cutscene event. It gives the violence a sense of permanence, even if it's mostly artificial and illusion because the actual gameplay doesn't match up. To use another example: Snake Eater makes every serious injury you get involve the use of the medical screen. This wasn't a great idea from a gameplay perspective but it emphasized "Jesus, Snake is getting the poo poo kicked out of him." (Or if you were particularly good, that he wasn't, and Volgin comments on this too.) When you lose an eye in a cutscene it has a semi-permanent effect on the game when shooting in first person mode. I'm not pointing at Kratos or Dante because they're explicitly magical mythological figures. Nor am I pointing at Nathan Drake because there is nowhere near as much emphasis on him getting hurt in unavoidable ways. Batman and Snake are the closest comparisons tone-wise to what it feels like Tomb Raider is going for which is why I'm using them as a comparison. It isn't about the fact that Lara is a female character, it's about the fact that Tomb Raider, in comparison to other games, has a much larger focus on the injuries the protagonist takes without acknowledging those injuries. If we were only talking about the gameplay then I wouldn't even notice it, but after the ninth unavoidable "Lara falls off a cliff and slams into the ground" cutscene it starts to go from impressive to a bad comedy sketch. It's be just as weird if they did it with a male character. Frankly I'm happy they didn't make Lara a mewling waif who cries over every enemy she kills because that would have sucked. I thought the reboot overall did a good job with her. That doesn't mean that they didn't get excessive with just how much she survives without repercussions or acknowledgement. It feels silly after a while not because of her gender but because the game puts emphasis on it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 16:18
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Chillmatic posted:Yeah. Far Cry 3 had literally the exact same angle, and the exact same outcome. (one kill with shaky hands and omg omg wtf and then 5 minutes later literally Rambo.) Please do. For example with Far Cry 3, it got enough controversy that the writer was literally interviewed about it and tried to use the argument that it was a game-length satire. (It was also a ridiculous interview but that's for another topic.) I don't think you're entirely wrong. The  stuff above about Lara being too weak (troll or not) is probably part of the bullshit, but I also don't think it's true that people ignore these sorts of things in other games. How often does Nathan Drake being a kind of crazy sociopath get brought up, for example? I haven't seen an Uncharted discussion where it doesn't eventually come up, simply because there's such a wide gap between Drake as presented and Drake how he acts.
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 16:31
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Chillmatic posted:Max Payne 3 The entire point of Silent Hill 2 is that James is a literal broken person. People don't bring it up because the entire point of the story is that he was psychologically damaged and there is a very real and significant impact to every literal human being he kills. The damage James takes is semi-metaphorical, to the point where taking damage makes you more likely to get an ending where you commit suicide. People don't complain because it gave them exactly what they wanted/expected. Likewise Dead Space is entirely about the psychological trauma Isaac suffered. It doesn't focus on the physical damage because the game doesn't really. (It gives him a suit of power armor instead and damages his power armor to show extreme physical injury.) DS2 is even more focused on this. DS3 has a boatload of complaints but those are largely because it was a rushed game with a stupid story. It doesn't get brought up because it has consequences. I haven't played MP3 so I can't discuss that, sorry. Far Cry 3 is a weird area to discuss because it's theoretically supposed to be satire and so it intentionally not focusing on the disgusting aspects is kind of the point. Even despite that it got enough controversy over various aspects that the interview was needed. Alan Wake's, again, more about the psychological aspects. (I also didn't think it was a very well written game and would gladly go on about its problems but YMMV.) The problem isn't that Lara is being put through hell. It is that there is an in-game emphasis on "Lara is being put through hell" without consequences of any kind. If they framed the game like "Here is an adventure" instead of "A survivor is born" then you'd probably only get the lovely rear end people discussing the issue and gently caress them.
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 16:52
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Palpek posted:At no point Far Cry 3 feels like satire, not a single point. From voice acting to story and cutscenes it's all serious business actually drifting into an unsuccessful attempt at Heart of Darkness. An interview with the writer doesn't change that at all. Well, yes, that's kind of my point. Far Cry 3 does this and it got criticized for it. The interview with the writer was trying to say that the disconnect and the disgusting aspects were intentional, but it certainly got discussed. I also don't think it's a "this ruins the game" sort of thing. v v Tomb Raider is one of the best reboots I've ever played and I think the new Lara is a fun character after the first two hours of the game.
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 16:58
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bloodysabbath posted:Exactly this. Immediately following the opening cutscene, the entire game is Lara in a survival situation. When you've got a deathtrap island full of guys with guns shooting at you, you don't get to have a long drawn out internal battle about what it means to take a life. It's adapt or die. Tomb Raider isn't a multiseason TV show where writers can slowly build or alter characteristics in a protagonist over X episodes. This is a bleak action movie, and you have to establish setting, as well as characters and the relation between them as fast as you can. lara isn't a silver-spoon fed trust girl though. She's established as having done quite a bit before this game, just not actively killing. I actually liked that because it was more believable that she had already done a bunch of stuff, just not crazy stuff. I don't get what you mean about the platform/shooting balance though. There is a ton of shooting. (Well, bow-ing.) I think it's fun shooting, especially when you can stealth it, but there's a lot of it. In comparison puzzles are almost nonexistent or are insanely simplistic. It's certainly more shooter-themed than anything, but not in a bad way.
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Mar 7, 2013 18:55
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