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With one mispelt word you've just done a far better job of marketing and advertising this game than anyone involved with it's production, OP.
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Feb 19, 2013 01:11
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There's a wierd, slightly off-kilter subculture on sites like youtube surrounding gruesome player character deaths in games and Tomb Raider is a game that often tops those lists and compilations, etc. etc. Ignoring that, though, the death sequences have been a part of Tomb Raider since day one effectively and it seems like they're really committing to the idea of a survival game and making the island and it's inhabitants something that can kill you, which is interesting and seems like it's the right move. That said, the entire pre-amble to this game's release has inexorably colored the tone of the violence and the graphic content in this game and if I were the publisher, I'd be easing off on showing off that angle and probably delving into showing more of the open, non-linear areas instead.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:40
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halwain posted:So are there actual Tombs to explore or is this just Uncharted: Lara Croft edition? There are, supposedly.
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Feb 20, 2013 17:27
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How has the question 'are there tombs in this game' been asked twice in the Tomb Raider thread, in the first two pages, when one of the trailers has the punchilne of her being in a tomb and hating it. Maybe we should add it to the OP. EDIT: And of course I forget to answer; yes, there are tombs in this game.
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Feb 25, 2013 17:40
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Dominic White posted:Polygon are a bit over-enthusiastic about everything, but they're also one of a handful of sites that are effectively independent of the advertising cycle that leads to so many places being accused of shilling or selling out. This is really funny after Polygon took money from Microsoft and only a short time after McElroy went on a fevered, rage-fuelled defence of advertisements on games journalism web-pages and against adblock. I'm glad the game is reviewing well, but that really doesn't mean much. I always figured it would.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:46
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Apparently the early review embargo doesn't come without restrictions; there are severe restrictions on showing actual video/gameplay of the game. A lot of talk about the game on the latest Bombcast. A lot more tempered and cool a reaction, as well. Seems like the game is quite linear, with a lot of backtracking once you reach the more open areas.
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Feb 27, 2013 15:31
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I doubt we'll see overt supernatural elements in this game.
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Feb 27, 2013 16:23
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Applauding a developer for what they're doing with their game before playing the game seems really dumb to me. I don't have much to say about the violence for similar reasons, but coupled with the marketing and a lot of what's cropped up in reviews and previews I am kind of bummed out. Not because Lara Croft can die horribly or because she's a woman and they shouldn't get hurt or whatever nonsense people are shouting in response to the kind of bizzare criticism, but just because I don't understand why we needed this. I understand why they needed to reboot Tomb Raider, but I don't understand why Lara Croft needs to go through being a terrified young woman who gets butchered when, say, Nathan Drake didn't. I don't know. Could be interesting, could be terrible. I'm cautiously optimistic and a lot more excited to get my hands on the game than I was a while back.
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Feb 27, 2013 16:28
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Irish Joe posted:That's a ridiculous argument, though. Its like saying the Saw movies are less violent on VHS than blu-ray because they're in a lower resolution. Those two things aren't remotely comparable. The difference in fidelity between live footage of a person and live footage of a slightly less crisp person is nowhere near comparable to the difference in fidelity between games from decades ago and games now. Irish Joe posted:The violence and brutality of an act isn't diminished by picture quality. The impact of it is, however.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:03
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bloodysabbath posted:You honestly do not see why a developer might choose to employ a different tone with an updated Tomb Raider game than a Final Fantasy remake? Star Wars has a different tone than Star Trek, which has a different tone than Event Horizon. It's almost as if the people making these games have minds of their own and can decide what to put in the software they ship! People are allowed to criticize those choices, or even flat out express distate for them. That's sort of what that much-abused notion of 'legitimacy' you referenced comes with.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:26
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Spinning Robo posted:Isn't a sizable portion of the game spent with her desperately hiding from bad guys until she reluctantly makes her first kill due to possible sexual assault? By all accounts, no. Her first kill happens early in the game and after that point she's a consistent killing machine. Chillmatic posted:And besides, I have literally no idea how someone can call a 19 year old woman with broken ribs, guns and a bow and arrow and covered in the blood of her enemies a "scared little girl." Like I said earlier, that's incredibly telling of how one views women in general. Because the game's marketing was all focused around that aspect and how she was designed so you'd 'want to protect her', etc. etc. This is the image they've put forward of their protagonist.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:03
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Chillmatic posted:What part of that says "scared little girl" to any of you? I didn't use the phrase. I don't think 'well, clearly, you're the one with the real problems!' is a particurarly stirring rebuttal to any of the criticisms of the material presented so far, but that is absolutely how they marketed her, to a not-insignificant extent. That's not my reading of the marketing because I haven't followed all of it. That was their stated intent, for the player to want to protect her. That implies a level of victimization and non-agency, which is what people are referencing with phrasing like that.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:16
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DrNutt posted:Well, it's supposed to be her 'origin story,' so gets all weepy when she has to kill a dude or an animal or whatever, but when you're actually playing the game you'll be rewarded for sick executions and brutal headshots or w/e complete with experience pop-ups telling you what a badass killer you are. The game also apparently doesn't reflect or make Lara's progression as a survivor and killer evident. Apparently as soon as you are tutorialized, you are perfectly competent and there's no ingrained reflection of her becoming more accustomed. That's a real shame if true, because that angle sounded really interesting. Also, apparently by the halfway mark you've killed over a hundred guys and again, the killing affecting her is only reflected early on and then never again. Which again, is a shame. Seems like they didn't really commit to making the game they said they were.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:31
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RentCavalier posted:It kind of looked like the areas are effectively linear, but within the individual stages along the path, you can branch off and explore for bonus poo poo. Brad Shoemaker basically described it as this, with some small metroid-esque aspects and a fast travel mechanic that allows you to go back to previous areas and use the newly unlocked traversal abilities to get previously unreachable collectibles. For the most part, the game is linear, though.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:23
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Chillmatic posted:I hear what you're saying, and for what it's worth I agree. I don't know if any of y'all played far cry 3 but literally the exact same thing happens. You kill a dude, and you're all like "oh gently caress, oh poo poo oh poo poo i don't think i can do this" and then 15 minutes later you're hangliding across the island dropping c4 on dudes that managed to survive the headshots and tiger attack you'd unleashed on them 10 minutes prior. Like I've said, I'm not particularly sold on the premise, nor do I think it's necessarily justified, but I do think it's interesting and hearing that it's effectively been half-assed is fairly dissapointing. Hopefully the game plays with that more, but the pre-release footage and initial impressions don't seem to indicate so. Yeah, it's a shame.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:26
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Far Cry 3's a fairly different beast. The protagonist in that comes to enjoy killing, not desensitized to it or accustomed.Samurai Sanders posted:His reactions in the game still don't match though, he still says "ugh barf" after the 2637th wild animal he skins. That was actually one of the few bits of Far Cry 3's writing I liked. He's happily enjoying and laughing through murdering scores of people, but he's still grossed out of skinning an animal out of necessity. It's funny.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:30
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I think the problem with Uncharted isn't that Drake kills a lot of people, it's that Drake kills a lot of people at once in ways that are pretty unbecoming, and tonally distant from, the archetype he belongs to. You rarely see Indiana Jones sneaking up on a guy and breaking his neck, for example. It's hard to sell plucky wise-rear end when you also have to explain away the fact that technically, he's a murderer.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:37
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bloodysabbath posted:The type of game you seem to want, a third person narrative based AAA level game that is all puzzles and almost no combat (to remain consistent with a "reluctant killer" vibe), stands no chance of recouping the ridiculous amount of money that was likely poured into this thing. It would have been very easy to have gone straight action the entire way through. What you dismiss as "half assed" is actually a pretty sensible attempt to preserve the legacy of the franchise (puzzles) while also, you know, actually selling enough copies to be worth the trouble. I did not at all say that I wanted all puzzles and no combat, so please don't words in my mouth. What I want is for the gameplay to reflect the story that's being told. I'm fine with Lara Croft killing a lot of people, in fact, I'm not much for puzzle games. I'd vastly prefer a story about Lara Croft fighting off a cult or pirates or whatever and trying to stay alive to one focused around archealogical pursuits. What I want is for the gameplay to progress and grow as the story does and reflect the fact that Lara is not a trained killer at the start of the game and shouldn't be acquiring these skills so easily. There is a difference between the gameplay reflecting her being a reluctant killer and having next to no killing at all. What the gameplay is doesn't seem to reflect the tone of the story or what Lara Croft is at various points in the story at all, that's a shame. If the impressions and reviews are true, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, then it absolutely is half-assed. You can't tell a story about someone becoming a killer out of necessity and introduce the mechanics that allow them to kill in a binary fashion. She should become more accustomed to it. I also think the score and XP popups are similarly dissonant. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 19:40
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest if it hits Arkham City balance between combat and exploration I think that'd be pretty great. I thought Arkham City was dissapointing in more than a few regards, but I really enjoyed the balance and pacing of the combat vs. not combat. On a related note, I loved the melee combat as much as everyone did in the Arkham games, so if the same stuff in this is as kinetic and has that level of 'meaning' to each action, I think it would be really fantastic.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:44
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Chillmatic posted:That's a fair point. I haven't played tomb raider yet obviously but i've heard a lot of reviewers saying that towards the latter parts of the game, Lara is yelling "I'm coming to get you you bastards" etc and so on, so maybe it has a similar arc. Given that from what I've heard she takes the role of protector of the group of shipwreck survivors, I can kind of see where the game's headed and I'm sure there's bits towards the end where she is actively taking the fight to the antagonists for what I would imagine are reasons people can figure out from the synopsis, but I doubt she'll become a cartoonish sadist like Jason Brody in Far Cry 3.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:54
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PunkBoy posted:This is sort of brought up in one part of Uncharted 2 when he and Elena are trying to sneak through an area undetected. If you manage to stealth takedown everyone, Drake goes something along the lines of "Hah, pretty impressive, huh?" and Elena responds with "...I would go with disturbing." Drake's a good guy, but he's pretty messed up. Wish they did more to expand on that, since it does look like the developers are aware of the disconnect. I liked when they acknowledged it, and thought they managed to walk the line between action hero and kind of off-putting really well, but I did think giving the whole 'hey, you're a killer too' to an actual war-criminal/genocidal maniac was a really lazy way of dismissing the issue.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:26
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am0kgonzo posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOKfQK7fs0c&t=1m13s I'm aware. Hence why I noted that the frequency of the kills isn't the problem and cushioned my reasoning with 'rarely' in the case of the manner of Indiana's kills. A lot of the stuff is very, very cartoonish, as well, as you noted. Throwing a skewer into a guy is pretty funny, sneaking up and breaking someone's neck, or blowing up a guy with a grenade or beating them to death with your bare hands, generally aren't. Like I said, the Uncharted games manage to straddle the line about as well as the Indiana Jones movies do, but the inherently darker, more mature tone that saturates them makes a lot of what Drake does more objectionable. EDIT: Objectionable is a bit strong, just darker. ZeeBoi posted:This is why most games don't have a female lead: insufferable nerds complaining about misogyny, sexism, etc. Hahaha, this is a really dumb thing to say.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:10
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Paul Allen posted:I can't believe I forgot to mention this. I don't remember much of the music in Dead Space sadly, but this has got me pretty stoked to pick up the soundtrack for this. Thanks for sharing.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:26
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Blastedhellscape posted:Am I the only person who really really liked Legend? I thought it was a fun parkor game with some cool plot twists and I liked the characterization they gave Laura Croft. I enjoyed it, but I thought all the current-gen Tomb Raider games were really bland and forgettable. I'm not really sad that they're not continuing in that vein.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:30
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Crappy Jack posted:Personally, I completely agree with you. Legend was basically my Favorite Game Ever when it came out. Don't know why, it just clicked for me on some level. And Underworld just didn't click in the same way. After reading this and being utterly perplexed that someone would describe Legend as their favorite game ever, I went to purchase it to refresh my memory and found that apparently only Underworld and Anniversary are available on Games on Demand.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:36
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I just wish Keeley Hawes had been Lara for a more consistent series of games.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:40
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DrNutt posted:I wonder if it's a regional thing, because Legend is on sale for 5 dollars right now in the US via GOD. Man, I can't find it. Though, I've long since learned that not being able to find something doesn't mean it's not on the Xbox marketplace. Oh, wow, there was a HD re-release of Silent Hill 3? Sweet.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:48
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Crappy Jack posted:Look in that Ultimate Sale section, it's on page 3. Sales are not things that exist in Australia. EDIT: Tomb Raider: Legend is not available on Games on Demand in Australia. Confirmed. It's just too hardcore a series, clearly. The Violence has always been an issue. That's that settled.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:51
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ImpAtom posted:It is very bad. You don't want to pay money for it. (The port, not the game.) This has been a day of me learning that Games on Demand was more dissapointing than I ever could have imagined. Kind of loving wierd to remember that Legend came out in 2006. That's loving nuts. Was Keeley Hawes a name at that point? When did Spooks become 'big'?
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Feb 27, 2013 22:03
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Lord Lambeth posted:It's worth noting that this game was written by Rhianna Pratchett. I can't remember the last triple AAA game written by a lady, female protagonist or not. Gears of War 3.
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Feb 27, 2013 23:02
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Lord Lambeth posted:That's a very short list. Just the first one to spring to mind. Amy Hennig had a fairly large role in making the Uncharted series what it is as head writer and creative director. Mirror's Edge, as mentioned above, is a Rhianna Pratchett joint. It's also what I bought in lieu of Tomb Raider: Legend and is easily one of the best games of this console generation, despite the opinion of crazy idiots who should never be listened to.
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Feb 27, 2013 23:11
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SurrealityCheck posted:Also, Dan I very much agree RE: keeley hawes. She was fantastic, and had near flawless elocution. She perfectly flits between upper and middle class, somehow. Kind of a shame that the Tomb Raider games I like the least had the best Lara Croft, but I see what they're trying to do with the new Lara, I don't much mind the voice, either, I think it fits with what they're going for.
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Feb 28, 2013 00:04
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Jeff Gerstmann dubbed it one of the top twenty video game marketing/interview cycle clusterfucks and that's probably accurate.
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Feb 28, 2013 00:52
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Samurai Sanders posted:Also I am still amused that this is apparently Tomb Raider: Raiding Tombs Optional. It's an origin story, man, you don't just throw all the good poo poo in up front.
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Feb 28, 2013 05:01
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DrNutt posted:Who is Time Gate? I'm in the dark on this. A studio with a less than stellar output who allegedly did most of the work on Aliens: Colonial Marines after Gearbox scarpered with all the money for the project.
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Feb 28, 2013 22:50
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That's really why I didn't want to say anything too negative. It's already near impossible to parse what blame lies where. Prior to this, the only real credits to their name are the F.E.A.R. expansion packs and the Section 8 series.
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Feb 28, 2013 22:53
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DrNutt posted:And since when are you afraid of saying anything negative? It just seems to me like they got hosed over by Gearbox. As for Tomb Raider and supernatural elements, I feel pretty comfortable in my stance that there won't be any overt supernatural elements in the game. If I fight a zombie T-Rex or an Atlantean, I will happily admit my folly, however.
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Feb 28, 2013 23:10
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I'm aware. As for the multiplayer, I don't know. I was a pre-release proponent of the Mass Effect multiplayer's prospective quality, but I'm definitely not getting the same vibe. I've heard it described as a less polished version of Uncharted's competitive multiplayer, which is fairly damning with faint praise.
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Feb 28, 2013 23:24
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That review is pretty even-handed. I don't really get a 'negative' vibe from it and all of the criticisms seem entirely fair. Also, I'm not sure what 'picking it apart for issues' is supposed to mean in this context, that's what a review is.
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Mar 1, 2013 19:10
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ImpAtom posted:Hair is something a lot of developers ignore because it's really really hard. A big reason that so many protagonists are short-haired, bald, or wearing helmets/hoodies/ect is because it gives them a convenient excuse to not have to try to make hair not look like poo poo. It's less that Square has a thing for hair and more than most developers just don't give a poo poo so any focus on making hair look good is surprising. I'm waiting on the next-gen cloak technology, myself.
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Mar 1, 2013 19:14
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