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Chapter 43: Smashing Faces and Buttons Now that we've got all that story nonsense out of the way, let's start this thing.  Now the final dungeon is bit of a doozy. We-  Oh wait, one second.   :Hiro....Why is this even in the game?   : You can't possibly win against Zophar. He has bound my power, and the power of Althena stands ready for him to take. We must face the fact that our chance to stop him slipped by... and there is no way to get it back... Unless... Perhaps Althena was right and the power of humanity can overcome him. I cannot believe that it is so, but it is the only hope left! You must try... Here, this is the only assistance I can offer. Take it.    : The power of humanity is the key to defeating Zophar, just as Althena said. It's stronger than any magic ever devised. If you only believe... I'm coming for you, Lucia! Don't give up!Just as a warning, strap yourself in for even more POWER OF HUMANITY speeches. If you've learned anything, you've learned this game is not subtle. Anywho, let's look at this new thing Lucia dropped in our laps.  In the remake, the Goddess Crest is quite nice; what it does is increase the power of other crests. I remember you can combine it with a speed increasing crest and give a character astronomical agility, among other uses. Here... it's taking up space. Althena's Light does what Blue Dragon Vigor does in the remake, that is, it's a full party heal. Nice, but not worth 99 MP or an accesory slot.   Now Zophar's Domain here is a long rear end dungeon with multiple parts. Like many final dungeons in older games, you really shouldn't do it in one go. Thankfully, the White Dragon Wings do work here, and you can heal up at the Destiny at any time. (Although you can't go anywhere, so if you missed your chance to buy items, then oops.) At the beginning, we have three paths to go down. There's no reason to go to the left at the moment, and we'll go to the right shortly, so we just head dead center.  The game throws you a bone by giving you a bunch of armor for Leo in this dungeon. Leo mostly came with Oynx stuff, so this is definitely appreciated. The King's Mail here also allows Leo to cast Soul Blaster, which is one of Hiro's spells. The game really loves to give you stuff that lets you cast Hiro's spells, almost as though they guessed you'd never pour MExp into them. Sadly, the dungeon doesn't cough up any new weapons for Leo. At this point, we can go left or right. There's nothing to the right, but I didn't know that and when that way first anyway. And this gives me an excuse to talk about the enemies.  Gorgonka has a lot of HP, but its defense is poo poo. It can do a lot of damage with its attacks, but no AoE skills or anything. Jean can't quite kill one in a round because of its high HP unless she gets helps from crits, but as usual Poe Sword does the job. Dark Sorcerers will do one of two things. When they're flashing, they'll try to inflict a status ailment, which might be stone but I'm not sure because it never hit. Also, when they're flashing you can't hit them with normal attacks.  They'll also cast Blizzard, and it does a far bit of damage. Their defense is high, but they have lowish HP. They're also a decent battery to steal MP from. (Actually, all the enemies in this part have MP to steal, these guys just have the most.) As you might guess MP conservation is going to be a concern. Throughout the entirety of the final dungeon, Lemina regularly cast Magic Swiper, and the Illusion Ring got passed to whomever needed it. As a matter of fact, I didn't use a single item until I was almost at the very end of the dungeon. It's a long haul, so I'm happy about that.  Go go, Ruby!   Lazer Boys can hurt like hell.  Jerks. Their normal attack is nothing to sneeze at either. At least they're fairly easy to kill.  Magic Hat's regular attack is laughable.  Although it's kind cute.  Their special can do some damage, and they're fast. But in general Magic Hats aren't too big a deal.  Oh, and MExp rewards here are insane. This isn't a bad place to grind, especially if you want to fill out your magic list. Naturally, I did some leveling over the course of the dungeon.  We finally got Ronfar's third and best single target heal. I'm actually going to leave Ronfar's Health at level 27 until the very end of the dungeon... you'll see why.  I feel kinda dumb that I didn't get this earlier. I've been neglecting Lem's Fire spells for Ice, but I really should have at least gotten her second attack buffing spell. Actually, for this part of the dungeon, fire spells do more damage than Ice, but neither do much damage, really.  Anyway, all the errata out of the way, back to the dungeon. From the chest with the King's Mail, go left, and keep going down that path until it splits again.  You'll have to go down both of these paths eventually. For now, left.  This room here is a very large one with a lot of doors, but the thing is that it's also full of these spikes that act as a barrier. If you were to look at the map, it looks complicated, but in reality we're on a straight path.  And we reach the end of it almost immediately. Hey, there's a weird thing on the wall. Let's poke it.   : What... what was that? It sounded like something crumbling!As you might have guessed, this is a switch we have to press to open the way later on. And, as you also might have guessed, there is another one. Let's head back to the previous fork in the road and go right this time. This time, the path's a little longer, and there's a treasure along the way.  Seven. I have seven Angel Rings. I really should use them, but I just never want to give up an accessory slot for them. Eh, guess I could put one on Leo? Really, it seems weird, but I really should have sold all of them or most of them off earlier. A Silverlight's worth more at the moment.  Anyway, we've pushed the second face button, so no-  Wait, wha?  Weirdly enough, the trap actually saves us time. Remember when I said at the very beginning of the dungeon we had three paths we could go down? This is the path on the far right. Of course, we could have just warped out and came over here and it would hardly be inconvenient, but the gesture is nice, I guess.  The shield is nicer, though. Both Hiro and Leo can equip it, but I gave it to Leo. My reasoning was his lovely equipment, but I guess I didn't realize how good the King's Mail is because he actually has better defense than Hiro. Ah well. Also the Storm Shield protects against confuse.  And on the next floor, some armor for Lemina. It allows her cast Recovery Litany, which means the Heat Ring is kinda useless to me now.  Oh, and I finally hit the inventory limit for Ruby! Fortunately, I've got plenty of free space in the character's inventories themselves, but this will make item management a bit more inconvenient. No where near the headache of the original Lunar, though. Anyway, I warp out and heal up before continuing on.  Oh hey, you really can't see it too well, but Leo's weapon apparently can confuse. Who knew? Barely ever happens anyway, but hey, a little bonus. So after getting the treasure and pushing face buttons, we head left.  Step into the teleporter an-  It doesn't lead us out of the first half of the dungeon just yet. Anyway, we just go straight.  And there's a goodie along the way. Despite what you may think, it's actually for Ronfar. Its attack power is poo poo, but as you might guess it's mostly good for Wisdom. Actually, if you're going for a Wisdom boosting for Ronfar this is the best one. Doesn't cast a spell, though, so I will be keeping the Holy Staff for free Pulse Lasers. (Unless he's healing, he has nothing else to do in random battles.)  And now we're in the second half. The final dungeon is split into two parts; the blue almost palatial part, and this weird organic looking tower. Like most dungeons, the remake's version of this barely resembles the original. But my word is it cut down. There's, like one switch "puzzle" and apparently one of the floors is kinda complicated? That's it. It's, like, five floors. I remember playing the remake wondering where half the drat dungeon went. Also apparently they made up for it by jacking the enemy difficulty up, so that's fun. Now back to the game. The game doesn't tell you directly, but our goal here to find the white, blue, black, and red switches (naturally) to activate a portal. Simple enough.  First, treasure. The Angel Armor is for Hiro or Leo, and it's actually worse than what they have. However, it protects against dragon breath.... which is weird, since all the fiends are gone. Ah, well, we'll just tuck it away for now. Anywho, we can either go outside or up the stairs. Let's go out.   On the outside there's a bunch of these tubes.  And despite what you may think, yeah you can totally go up them. No point here; this one just leads to a dead end. Oh hey speaking of... nothing... erm... Enemies!  The two are the most common, and easily least threatening. The Cannon Angel has a single target attack that does moderate damage and an AoE.  Cannon Angels are not really worth worrying about. At least you can steal MP from them, which you wouldn't think you could. There's only one other enemy you steal MP from in the second half. Power Zappyr, however, does status ailments. It can do two; I know one is poison, but I don't know what the other is because I always resisted it. Not scary. The worst part about these enemies is they have pretty high defense. Jean is absolutely poo poo here. Leo and Hiro are slightly better, but even Poe Sword doesn't one hit kill the Zappyrs.  Also the Power Zappyrs' attacks are just adorable. Although they're not the scariest enemies, they-  HOLY poo poo LOOK AT THAT MEXP.  Speaking of which, I got Lemina's third level single target ice spell. Considering that Lemina doesn't do great damage with spells anymore, and since I don't have much use for the defense buff, I'm leaving Ice at level 27.  Slightly less common are these... things with the birds. I have no idea why they're called Velma & Louiez, but they are. You can see kind of see that they're doing the whole flashy orb thing.  They cast Magic Barrier, which is a little odd for a random encounter.  Oh, and they can cast pimped up Fire Ring on you, which I only saw once and does pretty low damage. So, uh, there's that.  Oh, and random fact: Dark Sword works against the Cannon Angels and not Velma & Daphne. I was thinking Dark Sword only works against "alive" enemies, basically anything organic and not a zombie. So Geena & Susan are zombies? And Cannon Angels are living things? Or... Dark Sword makes no sense? I have no idea. Anyway, Velma also hits pretty hard, but takes decent damage from attacks when not barriered. A moderate threat.  Oh, but the star of the show here are the Phantoms. They have 700 HP (thankfully they will die in one hit to Poe Sword) high defense, two attacks, and a lovely special attack.  Yeah, they can just up and kill you, and as far as I can tell, there's nothing that defends against that. (I don't think the Tri-Ring does, anyway) And the tell is subtle; their tail spins a bit faster. Dick. Move.  Hell, even attempting to run from them is dangerous. In case you were wondering, this was after only two failed attempts to run. Back to dungeon poo poo.  Hey, look, it's the teleporter, and they put it here where we can't get to it to be dicks. I mean, I couldn't (and wouldn't) use it right now anyway, but still. Each corner here and a staircase. You'll want to go to the bottom left one. (There's a doorway leading outside, but no reason to go outside)  First off, new armor for Jean! Gives her a counter ability that I never saw. Eh. From here, go outside. There's two chutes, one going up and going down. Go up.  And the white orb is down. There's nothing down the other chute, so go back to the room with the teleport and go up the stairs to the northwest.  Now, I didn't count it exactly, but I've got... erm... 20 or so Silverlights, if I had to guess. Wouldn't you say that's enough? No. No it is not. Anyway, if you go out, you-  Wait, where's the  Ground. So, yeah, to get back you have to go down a chute and it takes you to the beginning of this tower. There's no real reason to go this way, so once you get the Silverlight you should just head back to the teleporter room. Speaking of which, however you get back to said room, go up the upper right staircase.  Oh, and look, the game taunts you with visions of future treasures. Tease.  Guys I think this might be for Lemina. Anyway, it boosts luck and also gives Ronfar a counter that I never saw. Yay. I guess. Anyway, from here we-  drat it. Oh, and unlike the previous drop, you can't get to the beginning of the tower from here. At least I cannot see a way unless I missed something, and frankly it'd be easier to just warp out and try again anyway. So hopefully you found the white orb before you dropped down. Otherwise have fun climbing this tower again. Not that this happened to me. Noooope. No way. That'd be silly. Back to dungeon crawling. Now you'll want to go left first.  And we found the black orb! Two more to go. From here, go right.  Up we go.  All right, we found the blue switch. Only one more! From here, go to the right and inside.  We have three staircases, one to the left, center, and right. Center and right go to the same place, so let's go left first.  And finally, to complete the  JUSTICE set, we- actually, no, I took off the Justice Clothes. drat. In any case, this allows Ronfar to cast Magic Swiper, which is more than appreciated. You know, while the original's inventory system is a lot more unwieldy, the fact that the remake only limits you to 20 of any item is kind of a drag. It's almost as though they don't want you walking around with an inventory of nothing but Silverlights. So after you grab these two treasures, go outside, go up the chute, and...  Excellent! From here, go back and this time take the center or right staircase. Go up, then outside.  And go down a series of chutes.  As in, four chutes. Basically, just keep going until you reach the door.  More treasure! This is a Hiro-only helmet that gives him the ability to cast Rest Litany. That's pretty freaking nice. Leo takes Hiro's leftover Pyro Helm.  And we're at the end. And of course you made sure to get all of the orbs before coming here, otherwise you'd have to warp out and climb the tower again. But that'd be silly. ... Anyway, through the teleporter.  Well. This is different. Somehow I know to go to each of the corners of this room and check them out. Hm....  Also why am I equipping the Angel Armor and the Dragon Angel Crests? Oh well, guess I've gone insane. Anyway, let's check out the upper left-hand corner.    Say whaaaa? Guess what? We've got to fight all four of the fiends again! This isn't really a challenge as it is more of a resource drain. The fiends themselves do get stat changes, but at according to guidebook it's kind of random. The Black Fiend, for example, is actually weaker in a lot of ways, but higher defense and waaaay higher HP. They get the exact same attacks, though. But we're not the same, now are we?  Now, Pressure Cooker was glitched on Fake Althena, if you recall. Honestly... I think it's glitched for the fiends, too. For one, my damage against the Fiend actually decreased.  But so did theirs. If I had to guess, I think Pressure Cooker messes with resistance/weaknesses. Without Pressure Cooker Hiro's Poe Sword does over 700 damage, which to me indicates to me that it's hitting a weakness. Conjecture on my part, though. Still, Pressure Cooker is still worth doing as it weakens that enemy that much. The battle is long, but we're never even remotely in danger. Since we've seen this fights before and this time it's even more boring, let's skip it.  And the reward is pretty underwhelming, which fits. Really, the hard part is having enough items to keep your HP/MP decent. I probably used up waaaay too much MP, but, hey, finally an excuse to use up a bunch of those Starlights I've got!  Looking at the guidebook, the White Fiend is exactly the same, just with slightly lower attack power. Consider that the White Fiend was the first one, one would think it'd get buffed, but I guess not. In any case, it's a much quicker battle.  Wait, why does the easier fight give me better EXP and MExp?!  At this point I was pretty confused, so I decided to do this without using Pressure Cooker.   I regret that decision. According to the guidebook the Blue Fiend is pretty much downgraded across the board, which doesn't seem right to me. The Blue Fiend was probably hardest Fiend fight, but I don't recall it kicking my rear end that hard. Huh.  Oh, and the Blue Fiend has a sleep/freeze attack. I didn't know he could do that. I didn't run across it the first time, or I didn't put it in the LP. Huh. I don't think any of the Fiends get new attacks, but I suppose I could be wrong. (Doubt it, though.)  Still, at least it was a short fight.  As far as I can tell, the Red Fiend stats have largely been improved. Like the Blue Fiend, this has the potential to be a real nail-biting fight. Could be, but wasn't. Thanks Pressure Cooker! I know it's not sporting, but gently caress it. If I've got a tool, I'm going to use it.  Also, look at that! Urgh, terrible. So if you haven't guessed, yeah, the remakes took out the re-fights. Considering that these fights can drain your resources like hell if you're not abusing Pressure Cooker, so you can leave yourself seriously deprived of items if you're not careful, I can see why they were removed. Still, feels like something's missing, you know?  I'd like to thank me of the past who didn't take the two freaking seconds to just stand in front of this thing while the barrier was active. Thanks me of the past! But yeah, hop into the light there and-  We are finally at the end of the dungeon! There's a staircase, but no monsters. I had to heal up, take off the Dragon Angel stuff, rearrange inventories and other fun stuff. Basically, I just made sure to equip the useful Dragon Crests and to fill my character's inventories with as many Silverlights and other high end consumables as I could. Oh, and let's use up the last of my MExp.  This, my friends, is why I was reluctant to level up Ronfar's Health further. 45 mp. Now, one might wonder why Game Arts felt that your highest level party heal spell, the spell Ronfar is going to use the most, had to be so expensive. It's a double kick in the pants because Ronfar has the lowest MP. Well.... they didn't. It wasn't that expensive in the Japanese version. Yeap, this is our friends Working Designs' fault. They more than doubled the cost of the spell. A lot of the other little tweaks they did to gameplay are excusable in my eyes, even rational. (I mean, it only makes sense that Blue Dragon Vigor be 99 MP.) This, though, is just mean. So, yeah, hope you got the Snake Ring! 'Cuz Ronfar does, and he's not taking it off.  Oh he's got the highest level of Light Litany. And it's somehow cheaper than Tranquil Litany. Motherfucker. I didn't have enough to max out Ronfar's Health, but I'll live without level 3 HP regen.  Before we sign off, let's look at our characters one last time.      We've come a long way, haven't we? Next time we're gonna stop the senseless killing and end this evil war! Camel Pimp fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jun 1, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 20:01
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| # ? May 13, 2024 11:15 |
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Hiro still has the second-highest Wisdom in the party.  It's like they wanted a magic-using Hiro to be actually feasible, but changed their minds halfway through by making the Wind spells kind of poo poo.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:28
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KataraniSword posted:Hiro still has the second-highest Wisdom in the party. Apparently at level 99 Hiro does have the lowest base wisdom, so I have no idea. Maybe they screwed up the progression for it? (Then again, everyone's stat at 99 look kind of weird to me in any case.)
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Mar 21, 2014 21:40
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quote:You know, while the original's inventory system is a lot more unwieldy, the fact that the remake only limits you to 20 of any item is kind of a drag. It's almost as though they don't want you walking around with an inventory of nothing but Silverlights. At least you can buy the drat things. There's only about 20 Silverlights in the entire remake.
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Mar 21, 2014 22:00
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I had to stop and think for a moment, but yeah, the Fiends have really been the only dragons we've faced all game, haven't they? Ordinarily you'd get some lesser dragons as a random encounter or something...
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Mar 22, 2014 06:30
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Glazius posted:I had to stop and think for a moment, but yeah, the Fiends have really been the only dragons we've faced all game, haven't they? Ordinarily you'd get some lesser dragons as a random encounter or something... Well, Dragons in the Lunar setting are incredibly Important Parts Of The Lore, so it kind of makes sense that they aren't all over the place.
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Mar 23, 2014 00:02
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The movie reference monster looks so wrong. Seems the actual difficulty of the dungeon, is to make spells expensive so you won't keep casting strong spells.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:49
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dis astranagant posted:At least you can buy the drat things. There's only about 20 Silverlights in the entire remake. I don't remember even breaking 10. The refights are a neat idea, but this dungeon feels like such a hazy mess that it prolly wouldn't have registered as interesting if I was playing myself. Especially not with the weird choices with shuffling the stats.
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Mar 28, 2014 05:03
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Zeikier posted:I don't remember even breaking 10. Most of them are in stuff I shouldn't mention yet.
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Mar 28, 2014 05:05
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Chapter 44: The God of Darkness All right everyone, Zophar's asskicking is way over due, so let's jump to it!   : Lucia!: Ah... No... Hiro! Run away...run away! : Ha, ha, ha! What's the matter with you, Lucia?  : Turning our special guests away without a proper reception? That's so... impolite. I would have thought you at least would had the manners to at least show them around. : Ah, now then, what brings you to my inner sanctum?  : Have you come to beg for mercy or perhaps to halt my glorious plans? Go ahead, it doesn't matter; you haven't the slightest chance of stopping me now. My new age of supreme darkness has begun! You're too late! Watch now as I mold this world to my taste! Ha ha ha! : Which should be about three minutes, by my count. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! I see the foolish resolve in your blank stares... You don't have any idea what you're up against, do you? Let me lay it out for you in the simplest possible terms. Now that I control Althena's power, you are condemned to death. But if you wish to amuse me with an embarrassingly weak assault, that is your choice. It will not affect the outcome. If that is your wish, step forth and taste the eternal sting of my kiss...Uh... I've seen your face, and, uh... no thanks.   : Zophar, your twisted words don't scare us.  : We will not allow you to pervert this world with your evil. Your game's up!Yeah, this fight always starts with an ambush. Fun! The attack he did there, Bad Dream, is honestly more annoying that anything. Fortunately, Zophar has plenty of other nasty attacks! Oh, and about the music; for one reason or another reason, Lunarnet doesn't a version of this track without the voice acting. If you wanna listen to the track without it, here's a youtube link. Also, I forgot, but apparently this boss only gets generic boss fight music in the remake? loving lame. Anyway, back to boss fighting.  When he has two little golden lights flashing around him, he does the closest thing he has to a regular attack. Thankfully, it hit my highest defense characters, but if it had hit Lemina she would have just died. I actually did have Hiro use Rest Litany, but the spell sucks in his hands. (Apparently it doesn't actually run off wisdom? Or something else is going on? I'm not sure.) Zophar's faster than Ronfar, sadly. Honestly, it may not be a bad idea to have put the Shiro Tail along with the Snake Ring on Ronfar, as this boss doesn't use status attacks, but I didn't think to do it. (Or I could have put some Angel Rings on instead of the Tri-Rings and made my life easier but I also didn't do that! I'm smart!)  You'll definitely need it for this attack. Ultra Vortex su- erm, is bad. Not only does it do butt tons of damage, Zophar will always dispel all your buffs beforehand, so you can't use White Dragon Protect against it. Thankfully Magic Shield works on different rules, so it will work, but I didn't have it up. Although it does do one nice thing. It drags your party together, so it helps facilitate Magic Shield. Thanks Zophar! (Also, if they're already together, it won't really mess with your positioning, which is kind of important to know.)  As expensive as they made Tranquil Litany, you really, really need it. Hell, that brought Lemina to full!  Pain Pulse is kind of a weird attack. Zophar can fail to grab a character, and if he does, the attack will hit your entire party instead.  It does slightly less if it hits your whole party, it seems. I'm not sure what causes him to fail, maybe Magic Shield itself does. Which would reduce damage anyway. Then again, he also likes to dispel your buffs right before using this spell too, so fun!  Zophar is immune to all magic, by the way. So you can't Pressure Cooker him, and you can't steal MP (he has none to steal anyway.) Although, frankly, I wouldn't bother being careful with MP. I put all of my Silverlights in my characters' inventories; each of them has about four or so. I ended up using three for this battle; one on Ronfar, one on Jean, and one for Lemina. So, what is the best strategy against him?  Jean on Blue Dragon Vigor is... okay. It does decent enough damage. Honestly, though your best plan is to play super conservatively. You want Jean to stay in formation, so just have her along with everyone else use their Poe Sword variant. Lemina should always Magic Shield, and Ronfar heal. Just never deviate from that. Since the only attack where Zophar messes with your party position brings your party together, it's pretty much foolproof. You just have to make sure to restore Ronfar or Lemina's MP when they need it. Zophar has over 9000 HP, so it'll be boring and drawn out, but you'll win. (Besides, we have a better use for Blue Dragon Vigor)  Even with my desperate flailing about, the battle wasn't too bad.   : I... I think we're still alive! Did we defeat Zophar? : Yep! We laid the big kahuna to waste! I almost can't believe it myself!: Ha! What were we afraid of? He wasn't that hard! I mean, Borgan was way tougher, don't you think?: ... : I've got a bad feeling about this. It's almost as if he let us win... We'd better keep on our guard until we get out of here. : I agree. We mustn't let our guard down for an instant!I do like how the party is at least being careful rather than being blindsided by the inevitable final boss second form. : Wait! Listen...And of course there's a second form. Don't even act surprised.  : Uh, Hiro? I know you're not going to believe this, but... uh... he's baaack!: Your power is undeniable, but what is the source? Wait! Don't answer that.I'm glad Zophar's sick of the power of humanity speeches too. : Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha... it doesn't matter. Whatever power you hold will fail before the supreme master of treachery! I hold the winning hand, and the time has come to play my trump card. : Aaaaah! Oh, uh, hi new Zophar. At least he has eyebrows now. : Mwha, ha, ha, ha, ha!Wait, wait. Sorry. Hold up. Gotta change his portrait.  : Mwha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Now that I have seized the power of Althena, my return is complete! I am the absolute ruler of the universe! You're all doomed.There, that's better. : Althena's power or not, you can't win this, Zophar. We'll stop you and save Lucia using the power you can't fathom!  So, this battle is... something. At the beginning of every round, Lucia will speak. : Hiro...in the face of defeat, why do you rise up? What... gives you the power? : It must be... the power. Your belief in each other.So we cannot hurt Zophar in any way.  : I... I should have known, I should have believed in you.Zophar, in turn, casts Lucia's magic. (And when he does, she'll shake her head, which is a neat touch.) It doesn't do that much damage.  : Ronfar, your passion... Jean, your dreams for a better world...All we need to do is survive.  : Lemina, your kind heart... Leo, your piercing insight...I spent the battle buffing, despite the fact that it's pointless. But why not?  : Ruby, your quick wit...and Hiro, your bravery and love.Even if Ronfar is out of MP, Hiro and Lemina should have enough to keep you going. It won't be too long until...  : I've known this all along, and yet it becomes clear. The power of the world lies in the human spirit.  : I believe Hiro, I finally believe! : Your belief in each other is grievously misguided. The time has come to wipe your miserable souls from existence. You don't have a prayer.: Hiro!: Hiro!: Hiro!: Hiro!...Hiro? : Heh-heh, time to roll the bones.: Mega-showdown time!: This fight will be ours...: If we only believe.: Hiro, it's true. Humanity's power is the key.  : This is not possible! It cannot be! : Zophar, you are blind to the truth. This world is one of light and hope. You have no place here. Your power can never extinguish the light within the hearts and minds of every single human. The power to love, trust, and hope will always conquer the lure of evil. I finally believe that.: You're speaking in circles, sweet Lucia! You know in your heart that I'll never be defeated. : Ronfar.  : Jean. : Lemina.  : Leo. : Ruby.  : And Hiro. The time has come. Believe in yourself, and take back this world for humanity... I believe in you! Never give up! : Zophar, it's time to die!: Yes, and you will be the first to go.That wasn't your best comeback, Zophar.   And now, we're finally in the boss fight proper. One nice things the game does for us is it gives us a full heal beforehand. We'll be needing it. (And obviously any buffs are gone.) Omni-Zophar is a piece of work; there are three targets: the face and the two hands. Each round, at least two of those will attack. And let's look at those attacks.  Cosmic Burn is pretty run of the mill. It's telegraphed by a red glowy ball.  Ow. This is Metal Shot, and it's significantly nastier. Also before he uses it, he'll, you guess, dispel your buffs! Although at least it's AoE rather than the whole party, as good as that does you. This one is telegraphed by a white orb on the head.  The blueish orb is Plasma Cannon, a medium damage single target spell.  Ultra Ray is telegraphed with a green orb, and it's stat reducer. It looks like... magic endurance. As you might have started to guess, what really hurts you in this fight isn't each spell individually, but the fact that he'll usually use two of these each round, sometimes three. The damage builds, and Magic Shield and White Dragon Protect only go so far. So a spell like Ultra Ray is actually pretty nasty in this fight.  But this, this is Zophar's worst attack. Do you see the black circle? Get away from the black circle.  This is Hellwave. Anyone caught in its path is dead. (It actually does a surprisingly low amount of damage to Leo. Still one hit kill, though.) Since you can't actually choose where your party members go when you select defend, it's sometimes harder than you think to get them out of the way. And to top it off Zophar will dispel your rear end before he does it, so you can't White Dragon Protect past it. (Oh, also its range is bullshit; Leo was nowhere near it! Bullshit.)  Oh, and if the face isn't attacking (or there's no Hellwave) it sends out hands that do miniscule damage. All right, that's what Zophar can do. What can we do? Well, first off, good news! For some reason Omni-Zophar is really slow. Everyone's faster, even Lemina. So it's pretty easy to keep on top of things, if nothing else.  Unlike Zophar's first form, you can Pressure Cooker this form.  And you really should. Unlike the Fiends this won't drop Zophar to uselessness, but it will make him more vulnerable to Poe Sword and Hiro's attack in general. Also you should Pressure Cooker the arms to decrease the damage they do. Again, it won't decrease it that much, but any bit helps. Speaking of the arms, in this version, don't bother attacking them. They have as much HP as the face, and it's just not worth the time. However, the remake plays a mean little trick on you if you've played the original. First off, Zophar has four arms instead of two, and you know that first part where we couldn't hit Zophar and where just waiting for the battle proper to start? In the remake you can and are expected to attack the arms. You pretty much have to take at least one of them out or you just can't keep up with the damage. Weirdly, this fight's a lot harder in the remake.  And this fight's no cakewalk either! Magic Shield is useful in this fight, but unfortunately Hellwave is going to disturb your plans. White Dragon Protect isn't a bad idea, but do be mindful of which attacks will dispel buffs. Still, we're faster than Zophar and armed to the gills with Silverlights. Honestly, what's going to kill you is Hellwave, especially it takes out Ronfar. Thankfully, I was able to avoid that.  Weirdly, chronic underachiever Leo again gets the final blow. Glory hog. Now, before we move on, there's one thing I need to mention.  Now, Jean using Blue Dragon Vigor here was okay, she's guaranteed to do at least 1000 damage, and Omni-Zophar does have a little less than 9000, but we can do better.  Hiro on Blue Dragon Vigor. If you set things up correctly, that is, equip Hiro with the Blue Dragon Crest and Wind Pendant, Pressure Cooker the face, and have Jean buff his attack with Power Drive, you can lay down some serious hurt. That damage you see in that screenshot? That's a regular attack. A critical is 700. And yes, I have video evidence. If you don't watch the video, just know he does over 5000 damage with that. If you do all this, the boss doesn't last more than four rounds. Blue Dragon Vigor. The spell that keeps on giving. So, we won, right?   : Lucia!: Hiro... : Curse you, Lucia! You and your trained monkeys are through interfering with my plans!No, of course we're not done! If I have to fight this boss through the stages of evolution I'm outta here.  : This world doesn't deserve to be recreated. I've decided to destroy it forever starting right here with you! Nothing can save you now! : Hiro...: Lucia, we can beat him! We just have to work together! Oh, hey Zophar, buddy... You're not looking too good. : Lie down before me and await your destruction. There is nothing left to save you now.: Zophar, you have made a fatal miscalculation. Humanity's power is stronger than any power you can seize. Your end is now!: Mwha Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha... I am Zophar, Lord of Darkness. The time has come to put an end to everything!Yeah, sure it is, sweetie. So, despite my earlier joke, this isn't really boss fight.  Yeah. Just Poe Sword his rear end until the game stops letting you beat him up.  : Zophar, it's over! Lucia, get ready... Now!    : No...no! This is not possible! I cannot be defeated! NEVER!: The power of darkness and hate will never overcome the power of light, Zophar. Never.: The power..of humanity should not have been this strong... this real...: But it is! And it has dealt you a fatal blow. Fade to a twisted memory, Zophar. The world will not mourn your passing.: I AM ZOPHAR! Architect of Anarchy, Lord of Darkness, and the Master of Mayhem! I will never be completely defeated... never! He says while being defeated. Completely. One more cutscene to take us out.  : Hiro! : Lucia...Riveting.  : We did it!: Zophar is no more! Next time, the rest of the ending! Camel Pimp fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 18:02
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Well, this was an amazing playthrough Camel Pimp. Thanks for the ride!
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Mar 29, 2014 18:34
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It's actually possible to lose to the third form in the remake if you have the wrong accessory on Hiro. I forget the name of it but it gives you resistance to everything at the cost of starting each fight at 1 hp. You won't believe how dumb that made me feel when I replayed it at the start of the other thread 
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 19:16
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That final dungeon seems grueling to say the least. I wish the mechanics were more easily understood for this game, I really want to know what pressure cooker actually does.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:26
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Yeah, I do like how hard the last fight is in the remake (I'd keep remake discussion in the other thread, if Crowetron could be arsed to update it). Unlike this version, there's no way to cheese it with any cheap attacks, since you NEED those cheap attacks to get anywhere. You basically have to scramble to kill the two starting arms (and unless you've been grinding, you've got an even chance of failing to get both of them, though the one that lives will probably be weak enough to die to a round or two of Lemina's new nuke spells) or you have to try and survive 4 or 5 attacks a round. Which include someone getting status'd (usually with Charm or Sleep) at the start of every round and taking a powerful AoE spell (like 1/3 of your team's HP) at the end of every round. And once you actually kill all the arms, Zophar gets downright brutal to compensate for their lack, but honestly the fight's in the bag by then. It's still a long brutal fight though.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:33
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curiousCat posted:That final dungeon seems grueling to say the least. I wish the mechanics were more easily understood for this game, I really want to know what pressure cooker actually does. Pressure Cooker reduces the enemy level. How I had this explained to me is that enemies have an internal level, a base stat, and then get a certain amount of stat per level (so their strength might be 50 +2/lv), though not all enemies gain the same amount every level. Pressure Cooker will reduce the level, and thus reduce their stats. Enemies that are immune to Pressure Cooker put their entire stat in the first part (so 100 +0/lv), and an enemy could lose some stats but not others to Pressure Cooker (max HP, for instance, never seems to go down because of a Pressure Cooker). Some enemies are particularly weak to Pressure Cooker and have a smaller base and gain more per level. The few enemies that cause bugs with Pressure Cooker are because they forgot to define how their level gains work (or maybe puts it into negative numbers?) and thus when it gets reduced, weird things happen; the false Althena is the most well-known of these. I don't have a chart for how enemies' stats work, and enemies only show up at one level so the only way to determine their leveling patterns is by Pressure Cooker, so while this could be wrong in the details, it seems to fit how it works based on observations. Prism fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 01:44
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The Lunar 1 remake played with that by having bosses scale their level to yours but that was kinda dumb and broken.
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Mar 30, 2014 01:48
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Prism posted:Pressure Cooker reduces the enemy level. The thing is, though, in practice it's hard to tell what the spell does exactly because the player doesn't have access to this information. You can possibly say that you don't need to know all that, you just need to know that it weakens the enemy, but considering that the spell varies wildly in usefulness, the player can easily write it off. I mean, I didn't remember it. (Also, I'm absolutely convinced that the spell is bugged further than just not playing well with some enemies. I swear it's messing with resistances or something.) I dunno, it's a really cool spell in theory, but I can see why they removed it. Bufuman posted:Yeah, I do like how hard the last fight is in the remake (I'd keep remake discussion in the other thread, if Crowetron could be arsed to update it). Unlike this version, there's no way to cheese it with any cheap attacks, since you NEED those cheap attacks to get anywhere. You basically have to scramble to kill the two starting arms (and unless you've been grinding, you've got an even chance of failing to get both of them, though the one that lives will probably be weak enough to die to a round or two of Lemina's new nuke spells) or you have to try and survive 4 or 5 attacks a round. Which include someone getting status'd (usually with Charm or Sleep) at the start of every round and taking a powerful AoE spell (like 1/3 of your team's HP) at the end of every round. And once you actually kill all the arms, Zophar gets downright brutal to compensate for their lack, but honestly the fight's in the bag by then. It's still a long brutal fight though. Honestly, the last time I played the remake (which, admittedly, was a long time ago) I found the fight to be brutally unfun. I mean, if you omit the overpowered poo poo like Blue Dragon Vigor, it's a plenty hard fight in the original. I guess they had to make up for Borgan somehow... Galick posted:Also: As you might have started to guess, what really hurts you in this fight isn't each spell individually, but the fact that he'll usually use two of these each round, sometimes three. The damage builds, and Magic Shield and White Dragon Protect only go so far. ...you see, this is what happens when you decide to move a sentence but forgot to delete the extraneous one. Thanks. Camel Pimp fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 02:22
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Two actual boss forms and a fancy cutscene. Feels almost traditional, but I suppose this is early on that the pattern didn't really show.
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Mar 30, 2014 02:25
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And this is why I had to grind like a mother fucker in the remake. I flat out had no items coming into the battle with him, almost no MP, and I had an average level of around 45.  I managed the first battle fine, but the second? It was a crapshoot if I'd even make it to the 'real' fight. It got a lot better when I realized I could kill two of the arms though - only two are vulnerable at the beginning, not all four, the other two are behind Zophar's invincible barrier thing. Also: As you might have started to guess, what really hurts you in this fight isn't each spell individually, but the fact that he'll usually use two of these each round, sometimes three. The damage builds, and Magic Shield and White Dragon Protect only go so far. You say this twice  VVV I cannot remember what Soul Blade was, but Catastrophe was patently useless given that if an enemy even resisted one element of it, it resisted the whole thing. Lemina's base flame attack was better. Slam Dance was amazing though, as was Triple Sword. Galick fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 02:31
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Well, the remake bumps up the difficulty to account for how you're supposed to have Triple Sword, Soul Blade, Catastrophe and Slam Dance/Blue Dragon Fist by the time you get here. It doesn't take long at all to remove the 2 new hands when you have that kind of firepower and then you can wreck the head pretty quickly.
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Mar 30, 2014 02:38
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Camel Pimp posted:The thing is, though, in practice it's hard to tell what the spell does exactly because the player doesn't have access to this information. You can possibly say that you don't need to know all that, you just need to know that it weakens the enemy, but considering that the spell varies wildly in usefulness, the player can easily write it off. I mean, I didn't remember it. I'll agree with that, knowing more about it would help a lot. If, for instance, there was a bestiary, and it gave stats both before and after Pressure Cooking, you could at least see if it was useful after the fact; while it wouldn't let you know exactly how good it might be on a specific boss until it was over with, you could at least see what kind of results you might expect. It also might very well be bugged on top of that. I never used it much on most enemies; it might mess up resistances. Lunar comes from a time in the distant past where bugs like that weren't exactly uncommon. Did it regularly feel like it was adding resistances, or just removing them?
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Mar 30, 2014 03:07
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Prism posted:I'll agree with that, knowing more about it would help a lot. If, for instance, there was a bestiary, and it gave stats both before and after Pressure Cooking, you could at least see if it was useful after the fact; while it wouldn't let you know exactly how good it might be on a specific boss until it was over with, you could at least see what kind of results you might expect. Both! For example, during Zophar form 2, Hiro's damage using attack is a bit better than Jean's, but not overwhelmingly so. After Pressure Cooker, Hiro's damage skyrockets while Jean's only improves slightly. I also saw this happen when I was testing it with Fake Althena; Jean's damage plummeted, while Hiro's actually improved slightly. Something else is going on there, although I don't know what.
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Mar 30, 2014 03:12
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It sounds like this game really needs someone dedicated to rip open the code of the game and actually analyze how everything works. Other technical rpgs like Final Fantasy V, and several of the Dragon Quest games have people who have done this and are able to tell you all the stats on the enemies and how every spell and skill works exactly.
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Mar 30, 2014 03:22
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Is it possible to wipe during the dialog and still revive, like you could in the remake?
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Mar 30, 2014 20:08
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Scalding Coffee posted:Is it possible to wipe during the dialog and still revive, like you could in the remake? wait what the poo poo?
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Mar 30, 2014 22:13
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The timing is tight. Lucia is such a talker during the scripted event that she can hold off the game over when she is going to revive your guys. It was quite an event with everyone dead. Only did it with the remake.
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Mar 31, 2014 01:07
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As a kid with the original game I tried to use Battalion Sword and such to attack the hands and head at the same time, figuring I would need to take them out anyways and because they probably had less HP. Turns out it was a waste of time and I should have just went for the head immediately. Lame!
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Mar 31, 2014 01:13
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Chapter 45: Saying Our Goodbyes  Unlike the original game, we don't immediately cut to credits once we've beaten the big bad and saved the girl. Instead we get a chance to walk around, unwind, talk to everyone... just enjoy our victory. So let's!  : Well, now that I am back, I'll show my pride and power every day!  : Just think, if I hadn't met you in the forest that day, I never would have learned what I'm really made of. Hiro, you helped me discover the best part of myself, the strength and inner resolve. I'm going back to being a dancer, but I'll never forget you.  : And I'll tell you, Hiro, even when I was trying to capture you, I liked you. You carry with you a sense of justice... of power. When we first met, I had lost my sense of justice. You helped me find it again. Thank you, Hiro. : I think that defeating Zophar has made me the world's first playboy/hero! Pretty funny, huh? One of the saviors of the world, and I have a major vice!...Kyle? History, not one of Ronfar's strong points, apparently. : Well, anyway, I guess we have to part ways here. Stay in touch, you two!For now, we'll skip Nall and instead walk around town.   : I can't believe that you were able to stop Zophar! Just think, if you had listened to me, we'd all be history by now!: Well then, it's a good thing we just watched your lips flap and didn't listen... like we're doing right now...    : Maybe it's people like you that made the goddess want to come to us as human. She may have been impressed by the good qualities of humanity... Well, not Ruby. (How would you even fit it on her neck?)  : Hey! Maybe I'll write a book about it! I'll call it 'Interview with the Maniac!'I'm not sure how you'd get that kinda book from what just happened. You'd really have to interrogate the events from the wrong perspective.   : Is it because Zophar has been stopped, or is it just my imagination?Uh....  Probably not your imagination. I mean, step one of becoming a video game villain is constant stormy weather. : Oh well! I don't care... I'm off to play! : And I only had to sacrifice 10 Barneys on the burning altar of rage! That was definitely purple well-spent!...okay.  You know, in the midst of this big celebrations, even the smaller victories are-  : I mean, what else can we do? We don't have the money to move elsewhere...Regardless of the reasons, still, good things are happening!   : Times have certainly changed! The whole world's bein' run by kids now!You see, this lady starting to see the stark reality of the JRPG dystopia in which she lives. ...good things.   : In fact, tell you what I'm gonna do! I'm closing the shop early today! Maybe I'll go out and get rip-roaring drunk to celebrate! Ha ha!For a good reason, none of the shops are open.   : You have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Well done, Hiro!  : Now that this world is at peace, perhaps she will see me for what I am... a great big, huggable super daddy who's sweet on her.And who says romance is dead. Yeah, let's go talk to Nall.   : At least peace has come back to our world for a while. Now I guess it's time to jam. Say Ruby, why don't you come to Taben's Peak with me? : Taben's Peak? You mean you want me to hang out with the Lostest Boys? : Sure, why not? You're free now. You'd fit right in! But, I'm not forcing you... : No... No, I want to go. Sounds like a lot of fun. Hey, Hiro, is it okay if I head to Taben's Peak with Nall? I promise I'll come visit you soon. Oh how could we say no? : Well then, I guess I'm off to Taben's Peak! I promise I'll come back to see you soon, Hiro!  : We're going to have a blast together, Ruby! Just wait 'til the Lostest Boys find out you've come to play! ...Oh, and Hiro, I have this for you. Read it. You might find it interesting.    : "Although once I was known as the goddess Althena, I am now Luna, and I shall remain so. I have chosen happiness and love as a human. A mortal. As such, I will not be able to tell you this in person. I have seen your coming, but my life will end long before you are even born. I have but one regret, and you can correct it, for the sake of true love. : Lucia is left to protect the Blue Star. Living, not for herself, but for others. She waits silently for the Blue Star to revive, and now, she waits alone. I wanted to teach her all about human warmth, love, and kindness.... But that chance has now slipped beyond my grasp. Hiro, you must free her from servitude and loneliness on the Blue Star. For me, and for love...   : Well buddy, what are you waiting for? This is it! Show time! Lucia's right here! I saw her goin' in to the guild mansion. Go for it, guy!Wait, I was just there, and I know for a fact she wasn't- oh whatever.  : Much has happened since we first met at the Blue Spire. It... it seems like ages ago. You've shown me so much of this wonderful land. The cool breezes that blow in the afternoon. The warm sands of the beach... and most of all, the kind people, whose spirit cannot be broken in adversity. I want the Blue Star to be all of these things and more... someday. That... is my dream. I'm so glad that you were the first person I met here. Thank you, Hiro.: ...Lucia, why not come back with me to Grandpa Gwyn's house? I'm sure that Grandpa won't mind. What do you say?: ...all right, Hiro. Everyone's waiting, we'd better go.Good, let's go, because if these two get any cuter I swear I'm gonna hurl.  : She even found true love and happiness with Dragonmaster Alex.: I have seen the strength and joy of humanity. I want to see so much more. Maybe Althena had the right idea... human... hm... oh, who am I kidding? : When you two are in the area, don't forget to stop by Vane and say 'hello.' Remember, you're honorary members of the guild now!  : I...: Ah, ah, ah! Don't even try to make me feel better. We all know he's the best! Anyway, I'm headed back to the carnival. Promise me you'll stop by soon!All this needs is for Jean to pointing finger guns at Lucia and saying, "go break yourself off a piece of that."  : If I had come to my senses just a bit earlier, I would not have put you in this terrible situation, Lucia. Know that I'm sorry, and that I pray you can revive the Blue Star. : Knowing what you were, your words mean so much more to me now. Thank you, Leo. : And Lucia... get this boy some decent clothes, okay? See ya 'round!Ronfar, you are the best. Sadly, though, I think it's time to go our separate ways.   : Hey, Hiro, if you're heading back to Grandpa Gwyn's, I'll go with you!: Hey! What the heck are you tellin' Hiro that for? You just finished saying you'd go back to Taben's Peak with me!: Oh..yeah...right. Well, I knew that. Well, Hiro, I guess you'll have to make your way home without me. But at least you have Lucia to keep you company! I'm going back with Nall to Taben's Peak. He promised to show me how to morph into a human form. Hopefully it doesn't make me as immature as he is.: Hey, who are you callin' immature, you little pipsqueak?: *sigh* OK, read my lips... YOU!Yeap, they were pretty much made for each other. : Well, chief, it looks like your gamble paid off big. You saved the world, and picked up a cheeky little babe in the process. Now that everything's calmed down, I think it's time for me to pack away the old magic ivories and settle down with Mauri back in Raculi. I know, I know, it doesn't sound like me, but hey... it's time. : Hey, Ronfar, if you ever get the urge, I'd be happy to accept your magic dice as a donation to the Vane Magic Hall of Fame. It's going to be mega-cool, I promise! Think about it, okay? Now that I'm massively experienced from fighting that panty-wad Zophar, I'm sure I can revive the rich history and tradition here in Vane. By the way Hiro, I've made you an honorary member of the Guild, so come back and visit sometime, OK? : I'll never forgive Lunn for what he did to me and the other children he corrupted with his terrible teachings... But at least now I can try to forget. Now that I've come to terms with my past. I can dance with absolute freedom, unrestrained by the specter of my terrible secret. Thank you, Hiro. : Hiro, your strength is admirable. The fire in your eyes reminds me of days gone by. But before I can move forward, I must re-evaluate everything I once took for granted. I'm leaving to find something I only know in my heart. And when I find it, my life will begin anew.: I'll never forget the adventure we all shared. If any one of us hadn't been there at the final battle, Zophar might have won. You all deserve the best in life, and I know you'll find it. Well, we'd better get started back. Goodbye!  : Yes, I suppose we should continue on... but...: But what, Lucia? What's the matter?: No... nothing. Forget it. I'm just glad to know that someone will always be here for me.: That's kind of a weird thing to say out of the blue... of course you'll always have me around!: You... you're right. From now on, no more bad thoughts! Okay, as Ruby would say, 'let's get this show on the road, Hiro!'  As they travel, one of the game's two vocal themes play.   : Hm? Oh, Hiro.: You seemed to be lost in pretty deep thought. What were you thinking about?: Oh, nothing really... I... I was just wishing we could continue this journey forever... I know, it's silly.: Oh Lucia. It's not that stupid. I've had that same thought myself. Ya know, after we visit gramps, we can take the Destiny and start another adventure! Whaddya think? Cool, huh?: That sounds lovely, Hiro. I'd die to do that...: Okay then! We'll call it a plan! I can't wait! This'll be great!   : ...wait! Hiro, I'd like to stop at the Blue Tower first.: But... Lucia? Why can't we visit Grandpa Gwyn first?: Please Hiro? For me?: ...okay, Lucia. For you.      And when they reach the top...  : Lucia? Lucia? : This world will be hard to forget. I've come to love so many things here. The bright green grass, the dazzling light of the clear blue sky, and the people... whose strength of conviction shines brightly on to eradicate evil. Yes, the inner strength you humans possess is the kind of magic that can revive the Blue Star. You have the strength and power to control your own destiny... and that's the greatest gift of all.: Lucia? What are you talking about? : Lucia? Lucia?!  : Wait! No! Lucia! : During our fight with Zophar, he said one thing that was very true.  : He said that I couldn't believe. That I was incapable of believing in the power of humanity. And so, Hiro, I could not believe in you. : No, no! Lucia! You can't! : When I came to this world, I did not even know the meaning of humanity's power. So how could I believe? But you changed all that, Hiro. You showed me the power of your inner strength and made me believe. I return to the Blue Star far richer than when I left. : For you see, I now know that one day, when it is restored, I can safely entrust it to humans who will care for it as tirelessly as you have cared for Lunar.  : And Hiro... I know that day will eventually come...  : Because I hold the most miraculous power of all in my heart: the power of love. : Lucia don't go!       : Lucia! : I will never forget this place. The people here, they will live on in my memory... forever. : I must go, Hiro. Please understand why. : Lucia... : Hiro, I must go back... the Blue Star needs me.  : Goodbye, Hiro. I'll always love you.      : LUCIAAAA!         : Lucia... I will find a way!   Hey, where did you come from?  : Hiro, where are you going?: You should know Ruby. : But... but Hiro, that's impossible! No one has ever done it! You'll get yourself killed trying. C'mon, Hiro, she's gone... just forget about her.: Nope.: Why can't you just accept the fact that she's gone?: Because she's alone out there... waiting... And I intend to find a way to get to her, with or without your help.  : Hey, don't be like that! I intend to stick with you! And, Hiro, there's no way you can talk me out of helping you. : 'kay? : Thanks Ruby. : Now, let's move! Our next adventure lies right before us!      : I will find a way, Lucia!And from here, we cut to credits. The credits is also the only place this next vocal track will ever play.   Well, this was one hell of an ending. I guess I need to give my final thoughts.  In a nutshell? Lunar 1 is a good game, albeit dated. Lunar 2 is a great game.  And I'm not joking around or anything. Despite my snide comments here and there, I do love this game! I loved it then, and I still love it now, despite doing this LP.  Oh, I'm not even going to remotely state that it's perfect or anything. I've made several comments to the contrary. And it shows its age, certainly. It's also a twenty year old game (I am so old) but it holds up so much better than you'd think.  The story and characters are, when you get down to it, nothing special, but are presented well enough that I don't care. Cliche, when done well, can still be compelling.  One thing I really love about the plot in this game is that it doesn't really drag like Lunar 1's plot did (and many JRPGs of the era). Yeah, there's some over-long parts here and there, but for the most part, it feels like every single location in the game serves the plot and characters in some way.  My love for this game is probably why I was always a bit... underwhelmed by the remake. It had a hard act to follow!  However, comparing at least the earlier parts of this game to the remake via Crowetron's LP forced me to realize that the remake does mostly improve on the original. There are definitely some parts in the original that needed a bit more fleshing out (mainly the Mauri part) and, erm... it didn't hurt for Working Designs to re-write part of their script. Moreover, while I'm not fond of how much they streamlined the gameplay, it did need rebalancing. (Even if they took out my beloved Blue Dragon Vigor.)  On the other hand, the remake does add a lot of fluff and flab the game just doesn't need. That, and, well, after the huge changes that Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete gave us, the fact that the remake is pretty much the same game is disappointing. Still, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete is a drat good game, and a good version of Lunar EB.   Man, though, this is a hell of a place to leave off, isn't it?  Wait, what's this? Camel Pimp fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 01:10
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That's right, we're not done yet!
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Apr 1, 2014 01:11
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Honestly I have to agree with you-- both in favouring SSSC and vanilla EB. EB certainly benefitted from a balancing and a fleshing-out, but I don't think what was done in EBC was necessarily the balancing and fleshing-out EB needed, if that makes sense. Unrelated to the remakes, I like this ending. I don't really care for how the not-done-yetness finally does end. But... we'll see how seeing it again after so many years makes me feel. I might have softened some.
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Apr 1, 2014 01:39
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The epilogue bosses are pretty pointless in the remake, can't remember if they were any meaner in this version.
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Apr 1, 2014 02:49
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Yeah I like a lot of the additions to the remake of this game, but I didn't like what they took out, which was quite a bit. Some dungeons were completely removed, spell graphics toned way down for unknown reason, and the final dungeon is pretty lame compared to the grandiose evil palace in this one. Overall the remake felt pretty rushed or cheapened compared to the original. Also as a kid, I had no clue what Epilogue meant, and was extremely surprised when I came back to the game a few days later and selected that new option!
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Apr 1, 2014 02:50
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I still prefer Lunar: TSS to Lunar: SSSC because too many of the changes were bad changes (IMHO.) In particular, I liked the old Black Dragon Situation better and didn't appreciate 2 extra sexy bitches catering to the Lowest Common Denominator added to the game. I did like that they gave Alex more lines and Luna more presence in the party but I felt they largely changed the game for the worse and it really started to drag on. Mossy Quark did look cooler though. Insofar as EB is concerned, I felt the vocal work was better in the original but the anime sequences are pretty good in the remake and I liked most of the added animated cut scenes. The characterization was also improved. However, from an art-stance I think the quality was about the same and the CGI was bad. From a design aspect, making Luna an old lady was an excellent call and changing Lucia's eyes from blue to green was a good choice. However, a few key significant events and scenes had to be altered and/or removed from the game to facilitate the story changes from SSSC/other mysterious reasons and I just didn't like that. Also higher level spells unlocked at level up, which to most gamers was good but was a pain to me because I could no longer just farm MEXP on low-EXP/High-MEXP monsters and max everyone's magic while still beating the game at like level 27 or whatever it was I did it at. Jenner fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 08:50
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Jenner posted:I still prefer Lunar: TSS to Lunar: SSSC because too many of the changes were bad changes (IMHO.) In particular, I liked the old Black Dragon Situation better and didn't appreciate 2 extra sexy bitches catering to the Lowest Common Denominator added to the game. I did like that they gave Alex more lines and Luna more presence in the party but I felt they largely changed the game for the worse and it really started to drag on. Basically this. Then again, this is the game that brought us Nash in a silly robot suit. quote:Insofar as EB is concerned, I felt the vocal work was better in the original but the anime sequences are pretty good in the remake and I liked most of the added animated cut scenes. The characterization was also improved. However, from an art-stance I think the quality was about the same and the CGI was bad. The eyes got bigger and farther apart in the animated sequences, which was really awkward. The characters looked a lot more stylized in way I wasn't really digging. Some of the monster redesigns were p. badass, granted (though I will always and forever miss the bizarro red fiend from the original when playing the remake), but the style-change in the cut scenes fell flat with me by comparison. Everyone looked like they'd de-aged by, like... five years. Also, Jean telegraphing her whole boo-hoo backstory in the remake was such a stark difference from the original English translation that it rubbed me the wrong way. I really like how it was handled in the first iteration. The remake? Not so much. quote:From a design aspect, making Luna an old lady was an excellent call Yessssss. I was actually kind of surprised by that when I played the remake, and it was a great callback. Nall's response was markedly different, as well.
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Apr 1, 2014 10:24
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Jenner posted:I still prefer Lunar: TSS to Lunar: SSSC because too many of the changes were bad changes (IMHO.) In particular, I liked the old Black Dragon Situation better and didn't appreciate 2 extra sexy bitches catering to the Lowest Common Denominator added to the game. I did like that they gave Alex more lines and Luna more presence in the party but I felt they largely changed the game for the worse and it really started to drag on. Hey, Phacia at least was important to the plot. Royce just existed to have a really baffling outfit and take work away from Xenobia, so yeah she should have been removed. Honestly, I feel the original Lunar 1 is pretty flawed, so I can't hate what the remake does it. If nothing else, I respect the fact that the remake is an actual freaking remake and not a lazy port or just a graphical overhaul. I was afraid that was going to be the case, even back then. An Old Boot posted:The eyes got bigger and farther apart in the animated sequences, which was really awkward. The characters looked a lot more stylized in way I wasn't really digging. Some of the monster redesigns were p. badass, granted (though I will always and forever miss the bizarro red fiend from the original when playing the remake), but the style-change in the cut scenes fell flat with me by comparison. Everyone looked like they'd de-aged by, like... five years. I'm glad I'm not the only one who really doesn't like the style. The Sega-CD version's cutscene are pretty static and lack movement a lot of the time, so the remake does have a leg up on that, but sometimes the faces just look off. Maybe I'm just an old fogey, though. Camel Pimp fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 17:46
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It was pretty rare to get an RPG with an epilogue, wasn't it?
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Apr 2, 2014 22:31
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Glazius posted:It was pretty rare to get an RPG with an epilogue, wasn't it? The original Dragon Quest had one, actually. Well, an epilogue of sorts. Technical limitations and all that. Although I'm trying to think of another JRPG that lets you roam the world after the final boss, and I'm coming up short. DQ9, Earthbound, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, the F Arc of Tales of Graces... that's all I can think of, at least, out of games I'm familiar with.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:40
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Suikoden II did that too. I'm not sure about the original, since I only played it once, but II definitely had it.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:59
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Camel Pimp posted:The original Dragon Quest had one, actually. Well, an epilogue of sorts. Technical limitations and all that. Although I'm trying to think of another JRPG that lets you roam the world after the final boss, and I'm coming up short. DQ9, Earthbound, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, the F Arc of Tales of Graces... that's all I can think of, at least, out of games I'm familiar with. Pretty sure Dragon Quest II had one too. I've been extremely slowly getting around to going through the series. I haven't beaten part 3 yet but it might be the first game to have the "haha, you thought this guy was the big bad? No, THIS guy is the REAL big bad!" that's familiar to anyone who's played most of the final fantasys, and they actually play it off as a fake-out epilogue.
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Apr 2, 2014 23:21
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A lot of Dragon Quest games have playable epilogues, actually. DQ8's is my personal favorite, especially since it alters the ending (gently caress that Darksteel Dragon though). If I ever get a new, decent computer, I may have to LP DQ8, which is still one of my favorite PS2 RPGs. DQ9 is probably the weirdest example, though, since it's kind of a joke that the 30-40 hour main game is basically one big prologue, and the "epilogue" is actually the main game, which consists of hunting randomly-generated dungeons down and clearing them out, and fighting old DQ bosses. It doesn't help that you don't even get world map flight until the epilogue.
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Apr 3, 2014 05:16
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