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Red Mundus posted:Just started Escape for the Pit and I'm amazed at how well-down and streamlined it is. I know some people dislike it but I like an RPG that doesn't punish you for making the wrong choice 5 hours back. AD&D I could never really get into because of this. I'm with you. I've always been peripherally aware of Spiderweb since Exile (I even played the Blades of Exile demo a long time back) but I never bought them because they seemed a bit too dry and impenetrable. I decided to pick up with Escape from the Pit, and it's fun as hell. I'm looking forward to playing the other games.
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Jul 15, 2013 15:59
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synertia posted:I messed around with agents when I was testing Geneforge and they seemed like fun, but I felt like I was missing the main point not being a shaper. Opinions? 
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Jul 15, 2013 16:02
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Jeff just did an AMA over on Reddit, where he answered some common questions people have had about his games, including some things people have commented or complained about in this thread (apparently he cut the party size from 6 to 4 when he remade Exile as Avernum because he wanted every character in the party to feel unique and indispensable, and 6 party members left too much room for redundancy.) He's also promised "far more substantive choices" in Avadon 2 compared to Avadon, so hopefully he's taken players' feedback on board in that regard.
Thuryl fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 13:40
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So I've finally taken the plunge due to the humble bundle deal. I've been loving around a bit, due to generally being overloaded with cool games this summer until I've hit Nethergate. I expected to hate it and turn it off after five minutes due to it being annoyingly ancient, but holy poo poo, this game is so atmospheric. My only fear is that the combat might get pretty repetitive, since it's mostly just a bunch of legionnaires running into stuff with no fun combat abilities of the other games. The one thing I don't really get is the difference between swords and spears. I assume there is some point to it, since the preset party had both a specialised swordsman and pikeman?
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Jul 16, 2013 23:19
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Some of the good/top-tier weapons are swords and some are spears? 
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Jul 17, 2013 00:23
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Zereth posted:Some of the good/top-tier weapons are swords and some are spears? It's pretty much this. Same reason it's separated out in every Avernum game (though in the later ones it became a one-handed sword, two-handed spear dichotomy to make it more clear).
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Jul 17, 2013 00:36
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Last time I played Avernum 1, I got to the endgame before every battle turned into a slog of everything in a battlefield casting midrange summon spells and taking like two minutes a round just for muted summon sounds. Are Avernum 2/3 going to be better than Avernum 1 was in that respect? I absolutely loved Exile 2/3 and I wanna try the new ones, but that discouraged me.
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Jul 17, 2013 00:43
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Thuryl posted:Jeff just did an AMA over on Reddit, where he answered some common questions people have had about his games, including some things people have commented or complained about in this thread (apparently he cut the party size from 6 to 4 when he remade Exile as Avernum because he wanted every character in the party to feel unique and indispensable, and 6 party members left too much room for redundancy.) He's also promised "far more substantive choices" in Avadon 2 compared to Avadon, so hopefully he's taken players' feedback on board in that regard. I have mixed feelings about this. I saw Avernum 1 before the Exile series, and I remember thinking "This is grand, but I wish that you could have more party members." I am not one to play through the same game multiple times, and when I do play through a game I want to see as much of it as I can, and "it" includes spells, abilities, and all the rest of it. I do not have the encyclopaedic knowledge of his work that some do, so my opinion doesn't count for much, but I will always feel a little sense of loss if I play through a game that has distinct classes A, B, C, D and E, but I have to pick 4 of the 5. I know that a lot of that can be classed as "replay value", and that is certainly an important thing, it just isn't my personal preference. For example, my favourite Baldur's Gate party (in terms of "completeness) was Blade (PC)/some tank/Edwin/Jan/Anomen/Jaheira. That way, I have access to every spell and every HL ability (as far as I know). Nevertheless, Jeff knows what he is doing far better than I.
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Jul 17, 2013 01:28
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Just got to the Spiral Pit and it's pissing me off. Is there a way to cheat to bring back the light or a "reveal map" cheat? This is starting to get ridiculous, tedious as all hell.
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Jul 17, 2013 01:41
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I'm pretty sure I've fought my way through the spiral pit about a dozen times by now. It's pretty much just an annoying grind.
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Jul 17, 2013 02:41
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Red Mundus posted:Just got to the Spiral Pit and it's pissing me off. Is there a way to cheat to bring back the light or a "reveal map" cheat? This is starting to get ridiculous, tedious as all hell. Use the annotated maps website for that part.
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Jul 17, 2013 03:20
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I bought the humble bundle and just tried out the most recent remake. Going to wax nostalgic for a bit here, and also grouse. Exile 2 was a defining game experience for me - it was the first RPG I played, and the first well-crafted fantasy setting I experienced. I loved Exile 2. I spent many hours on it, many more on Exile 3, went back and played Exile 1, and then more hours still on Blades of Exile. The deep-underground setting has remained an iconic one for me. I'd really like to replay Exile, but the 9-by-9-square viewing window is just so painfully small. The Avernum remakes fix this, definitely. But I have to say, the remakes just feel lazy. The first Avernum 1 (played the demo, it didn't grab me) and 2 (bought but didn't complete it) didn't even have area-effect spells, I didn't play 3 so I don't know if they added them or not. I see that the currently-modern remake does have AoEs, at least, but the spell list only has 20 mage and 20 priest spells. Everything's been pared way down, and a whole category (field spells) has been eliminated. Not even considering the laziness implicit in making a remake of a remake - the fact that neither of the remakes match the original series for options and complexity is quite a let-down.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:26
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Kylaer posted:I bought the humble bundle and just tried out the most recent remake. Going to wax nostalgic for a bit here, and also grouse. Exile 2 was a defining game experience for me - it was the first RPG I played, and the first well-crafted fantasy setting I experienced. I loved Exile 2. I spent many hours on it, many more on Exile 3, went back and played Exile 1, and then more hours still on Blades of Exile. The deep-underground setting has remained an iconic one for me. I'd really like to replay Exile, but the 9-by-9-square viewing window is just so painfully small. The Avernum remakes fix this, definitely. I don't think that it was laziness - I do not have the links, but I think that, in interviews, Jeff said that he deliberately streamlined the remakes for more accessibility. Not his exact words, but I get the impression that he felt that the Exile games were... bloated, for lack of a better term.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:35
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In the recent AMA he responded to that question specifically by stating that he would prefer to have a small number of well-balanced spells that each fill a particular niche than a poo poo ton of spells that are mostly crappily implemented.
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Jul 17, 2013 23:14
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And each remake sells better than the last, which is basically the point.
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Jul 18, 2013 00:13
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My personal take is that he is selling better more from bigger exposure he's getting than from streamlining gameplay. I liked Avadon quite a bit, but the character classes and development did nothing for me. Also, I don't know why he always mentions steam and the humble bundle, and almost never gog. It would cost him nothing and give him even bigger exposure among the no-DRM crowd (even if the games are actually DRM free?). But I better stop bitching because, in the end, I love what he's doing. And I still can't wait for Avadon 2.
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Jul 18, 2013 04:27
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andrew smash posted:In the recent AMA he responded to that question specifically by stating that he would prefer to have a small number of well-balanced spells that each fill a particular niche than a poo poo ton of spells that are mostly crappily implemented. There are some cool spells in Exile that I wish made it into Avernum, like Mind Duel I think it was called? That was a fun spell to use in the late game. But for every cool spell like that there were a bunch that you'd never use, like Sticks to Snakes.
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Jul 18, 2013 04:37
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mastervj posted:My personal take is that he is selling better more from bigger exposure he's getting than from streamlining gameplay. I liked Avadon quite a bit, but the character classes and development did nothing for me. Also, I don't know why he always mentions steam and the humble bundle, and almost never gog. It would cost him nothing and give him even bigger exposure among the no-DRM crowd (even if the games are actually DRM free?). Many of his games are already on GOG, Avernum 1-6, geneforge series, and avadon are all there at least.
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Jul 18, 2013 04:42
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The magic from Exile 1-3 seems like it could be scaled down while still keeping essentially the same things fairly easily, keep the really classic/useful spells (fireball, firestorm, bless/haste party, major blessing, curse/slow group, the heal spells, wall of force/blades (did anyone ever use wall of ice?), unlock, magic map) and then make the heals/cures/status removal spells/summons scale or do a Level 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 option that you select from one spell slot. The lack of fireball and only 4 party members is the main reason I've never played far into the original Avernum series.
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Jul 18, 2013 04:52
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andrew smash posted:Many of his games are already on GOG, Avernum 1-6, geneforge series, and avadon are all there at least. Blades of Avernum is in that Avernum pack also... 7 games for $9.99 base is a hell of a deal. Other than Nethergate: Ressurection and Escape from the Pit, he has his whole non-freeware library up there. He has more games total, I think, on GOG than Steam, since Avernum 1-3 and Blades are not on Steam. Probably would not be interest with no money in it and this is wishful thinking, but since GOG already has a handful or two of free games anyway, maybe he could get the 4 Exile games up on GOG as freebies. Those GOG guys are wizards at getting old games to run on modern systems, and it could get people to try his games and maybe generate more sales and exposure. Probably a fair assumption that many might not know about the games that started it all and that they are free from his site. Not everybody wants to muck around with running an XP virtual machine, I'd say. He doesn't seem to mention GOG as much when he talks about distribution - feels like he's doing them a bit of a disservice. GodFish posted:The magic from Exile 1-3 seems like it could be scaled down while still keeping essentially the same things fairly easily, keep the really classic/useful spells (fireball, firestorm, bless/haste party, major blessing, curse/slow group, the heal spells, wall of force/blades (did anyone ever use wall of ice?), unlock, magic map) and then make the heals/cures/status removal spells/summons scale or do a Level 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 option that you select from one spell slot. The lack of fireball and only 4 party members is the main reason I've never played far into the original Avernum series. That's a good idea, especially in regards to healing spells. Your post made me think about really old-school D&D games (video and pen & paper) where you get Cure Light Wounds at character level 1, which restores a totally random 1-8 hit points, and then the next heal spell doesn't come until Cure Serious Wounds at cleric level 7, which is a long way off. Later they added Cure Moderate Wounds at character level 3 or 5 (can't remember which level), and that did help. Then 3rd/3.5 came along and reorganized all of that and added spontaneous healing, which I did and still think was a fantastic idea, even if it did turn clerics into heal-bots. Then again, they kind of were before anyway.
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Jul 18, 2013 06:43
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In his AMA he mentioned GOG and that if you want Avernum 1-3, that's where you'd go.
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Jul 18, 2013 12:41
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JustJeff88 posted:He doesn't seem to mention GOG as much when he talks about distribution - feels like he's doing them a bit of a disservice. that's because GOG is still a small service compared to the marketing monster that valve created. It pays off to talk about stuff being available on steam because everybody who plays games on their computers knows what steam is but many people have never heard of GOG. It's interesting that it played out that way, considering that I personally think the steam client is slow and bloated and definitely prefer the GOG web interface - but it had to do with the timing of boxed PC games dying out and valve releasing HL2 with steam all in the same few years. It was the perfect moment to launch a real DD service and valve totally capitalized on it. Speaking of interface, the fact that you have to open steam to play your games is a stroke of genius too. I like GOG and all but I never go there unless I'm cruising for a sale or i heard from someone else that a game I want launched there. Steam on the other hand has ads in my face literally every day. andrew smash fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 17:43
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Is there a way to raise the max "to-hit" percentage to 100% instead of 95%? Because missing 4 times in row is when at 95% is giving me an ulcer.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:02
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andrew smash posted:that's because GOG is still a small service compared to the marketing monster that valve created. It pays off to talk about stuff being available on steam because everybody who plays games on their computers knows what steam is but many people have never heard of GOG. It's interesting that it played out that way, considering that I personally think the steam client is slow and bloated and definitely prefer the GOG web interface - but it had to do with the timing of boxed PC games dying out and valve releasing HL2 with steam all in the same few years. It was the perfect moment to launch a real DD service and valve totally capitalized on it. He could still mention it - GOG has more of his games than Steam, and it only takes a second. Valve does not need any help, and GOG is better in some ways. I like not having ads slammed in my face every waking moment, and I don't entirely trust Steam because their "offline mode" is a load of pisswiffle. I love the fact that I could download every GOG game I own, which is a lot, put them on a hard drive and play them anywhere with electricity. Not everyone has an internet connection every waking moment of their lives.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:51
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JustJeff88 posted:He could still mention it - GOG has more of his games than Steam, and it only takes a second. Valve does not need any help, and GOG is better in some ways. I like not having ads slammed in my face every waking moment, and I don't entirely trust Steam because their "offline mode" is a load of pisswiffle. I love the fact that I could download every GOG game I own, which is a lot, put them on a hard drive and play them anywhere with electricity. Not everyone has an internet connection every waking moment of their lives. I don't disagree with any of this, I just think it probably bumps his sales more to mention steam than it does to mention GOG. That's all. Red Mundus posted:Is there a way to raise the max "to-hit" percentage to 100% instead of 95%? Because missing 4 times in row is when at 95% is giving me an ulcer. Not sure, but i agree that it's annoying. Personally I think missing at all is annoying, and generally hate anything that feels like there's a time during which nothing is progressing (so I hate status effects like stun or daze or whatever when used on PCs) but it's hard to get around that in an explicitly old-school RPG.
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Jul 19, 2013 06:12
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andrew smash posted:I don't disagree with any of this, I just think it probably bumps his sales more to mention steam than it does to mention GOG. That's all. Fair enough - I tend to root for the underdog and got a little defensive. My apologies.
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Jul 19, 2013 18:09
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Anyone else have issues with the Steam overlay not showing in Avernum: EftP?
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Jul 21, 2013 04:56
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Nope but I only play in windowed mode.
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Jul 21, 2013 05:15
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Didn't they call it shareware?
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Jul 21, 2013 05:22
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Red Mundus posted:Is there a way to raise the max "to-hit" percentage to 100% instead of 95%? Because missing 4 times in row is when at 95% is giving me an ulcer. No. To-hit percentages vary between 5% and 95%. In essence, the entire to-hit/evasion system is ripped straight from D&D-esque 20-sided dice rolls. You have a base to-hit value for each attack (different for each spell/creation) and then all the factors are added up to figure out what you need to roll on a 20-sided die. So if you have high to-hit, that number is small (e.g., "roll a 3 or higher to succeed=90% success"). But no matter what, rolling a 1 is a guaranteed fail and rolling a 20 is a guaranteed hit, regardless of any modifiers.
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Jul 21, 2013 21:58
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I picked up the Humble sale pack of these games a couple weeks ago and just remembered it, which game should I start with? Escape from the Pit? Nethergate?
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Jul 22, 2013 20:33
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C-Euro posted:I picked up the Humble sale pack of these games a couple weeks ago and just remembered it, which game should I start with? Escape from the Pit? Nethergate? I started with escape from the pit and then Avernum 2-3-4, etc. Neithergate is a stand-alone story about Romans and Celts I believe, and Blades of Avernum I think was a one-off thing. I believe it came out between Avernum 3 and 4 but I might be wrong.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:45
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Yeah, it came out after 3 (much like Blades of Exile came out after Exile 3).
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Jul 23, 2013 07:29
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I like setting my roster so my priest is first in order to start battles with blessings, but it also means he's first in line to get hit. Is there any way I can move him to the back but still have him act first? This is in Avernum:EftP
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Jul 23, 2013 18:34
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There is a Trait that I forget the name of that basically makes the enemies mad at that character and go after them first. I'm a cheater and I use fast save (f3) and fast load (f4) quite a bit, so I do my blessings right before a battle then go in.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:44
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GreenNight posted:There is a Trait that I forget the name of that basically makes the enemies mad at that character and go after them first. I'm a cheater and I use fast save (f3) and fast load (f4) quite a bit, so I do my blessings right before a battle then go in. Are you referring to 'Champion'? I thought that it didn't work.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:47
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No, Challenger, but apparently it does nothing, which I just found out by reading GameFAQ's, so yeah. Nevermind.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:51
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In Exile 1-3 you could hit 'w' to have the active character 'wait' until all the others had gone (you could have some of them wait too) allowing you to have all your fighters sit around until you've cast the starting spells. I haven't played A:EftP yet, so it might not work, but I'd say its worth a try.
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Jul 24, 2013 02:10
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I haven't seen it mentioned here, but the entirety of GOGs Spiderweb catalogue is on sale for 80% (yes, 80) today only. Besides the Exile games, GOG has the entire catalog of Spiderweb games with the exception of Nethergate and Escape from the Pit. Avernum 1-6 + Blades is only $3.59, Avadon is $2.99, and the Geneforge saga is $4.49 (all prices USD). For those not familiar with GOG, there is no DRM and no client. Best digital distribution site on the net as far as I am concerned, at least in terms of user friendliness, compatibility, and retro grooviness.
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Jul 24, 2013 19:21
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JustJeff88 posted:For those not familiar with GOG, there is no DRM and no client. Best digital distribution site on the net as far as I am concerned, at least in terms of user friendliness, compatibility, and retro grooviness. There's an optional client that acts as a downloader if you don't fancy clicking a bunch of buttons.
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