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Horace Kinch posted:Sequences of Geneforge I have a game pitch lurking in the back of my head that's basically the early days of Avernum, before the nation gets properly established. You get your starting heroes, i.e. Erika, Patrick, etc, and you're dropped off in the Eastern Cavern with gently caress-all for resources, and sliths and demons are everywhere. You have to send out parties to claim resources, build cities, establish and push back borders, and eventually lock Grah-Hoth into stasis. I have another one, for a roguelike where you play as a member of the First Expedition (the Imperial explorers who all ate poo poo before they decided to use the place as a penal colony). There the goal is to divest yourself of your uber gear in as inconvenient of a place as possible for future adventurers to find, and then die a really, really stupid death.  The emphasis would be on avoiding fights, while also angering the locals so that the future penal colony has as rough a go of it as possible. Bonus points for making observations and leaving diary entries recounting them on the walls of caves hidden behind secret passages.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:34
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Whybird posted:The first half of Exile 2 is very very similar to Ultima VI: weird monsters are attacking you from underground, you travel down to discover they're really just people with their own issues and culture, and then complete three trials to win their trust. Ah that's true, I'd never thought of that before. Maybe because I played Exile 2 before I was aware of Ultima but was familiar with the series by the time Avernum 4 came out. It's still a lot less specific than "there's a group of 3 shades that are remnants of a previous bad guy who appear randomly in different towns and make all the townspeople act strangely" I always thought the Vahnatai were a cool and unique race even though IIRC they look more and more like gray aliens in future iterations of the games. Yeah this was also one of the Blades of Exile/Avernum scenario ideas I had back in the day and never really did anything with, something about being early explorers in the caves before they became a penal colony. It was intended to have a "gotcha" ending where the Empire seals the cave entrance behind you. And you'd be tasked with building a portal leading back to the surface, and then after building it find out that it's a one-way portal that can only drop people into the cave.
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Mar 29, 2024 17:24
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For someone who played most Avernums Geneforge 5 & Mutagen, and is familiar with every other Spiderweb series - what makes Geneforge 2 different? Or is it more of the same? Not that there's anything wrong with it been more of the same.
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Mar 29, 2024 18:50
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I have a game pitch lurking in the back of my head that's basically the early days of Avernum, before the nation gets properly established. You get your starting heroes, i.e. Erika, Patrick, etc, and you're dropped off in the Eastern Cavern with gently caress-all for resources, and sliths and demons are everywhere. You have to send out parties to claim resources, build cities, establish and push back borders, and eventually lock Grah-Hoth into stasis. I'm working on a DnD 5e homebrew campaign for Avernum 1 for some friends. (It is a monumental task and will take me forever.)
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Mar 29, 2024 18:55
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Horace Kinch posted:I'm working on a DnD 5e homebrew campaign for Avernum 1 for some friends. (It is a monumental task and will take me forever.) I was a little sad when I grabbed Planegea (5e pre-history setting) and it didn't have much in the way of 'metal is cool and basically +1 on it's own' rules. Because I would have been tempted to steal them for an Exile styled campaign.Though it is otherwise neat in and of itself. My main suggestions would be, set your goals. Boil down what is actually important (to you) about the setting and/or plot (depending on how much you are taking from the game). Also be clear that NPC mages and archmages do poo poo that is not spell slots. Though that is personal D&D preference. The guy who can make cavecows and cave trees might not be able to cast magic missile or fireball. A PC wizard is a combat class, innately. tl;dr Good Luck!
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Mar 29, 2024 19:02
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ilitarist posted:For someone who played most Avernums Geneforge 5 & Mutagen, and is familiar with every other Spiderweb series - what makes Geneforge 2 different? Or is it more of the same? Not that there's anything wrong with it been more of the same. Geneforge 2 is pretty similar to Mutagen except with a lot more choices and some more creations. You have options for getting skills that aren't canisters now and the amount of canisters you use will affect your ending unlike in 5/Mutagen. It also has a new system that Guardians can use best that lets them do magic based on melee/ranged weapon skill which helps them feel more interesting. Also in general I think it works really well because its a true sequel to G1 and you can see how the genie that was the Geneforge and the general powderkeg of Sucia Island was not put back in the bottle when the Shapers finally came in force to smash it. Lots of recurring characters etc. Also G2 the original was the last game that had the old encumbrance system which was almost literally unplayable so G2:Infection rules for just being a much less annoying version to play.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:03
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GodFish posted:Mine said 27%. Maybe a bunch more people activated their key since then. Steam achievement stats tend to bounce around a lot right around release. I've seen games where some achievement would go from 12% to 0.3% and back several times before settling on whatever the actual number (presumably) was 
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Mar 29, 2024 19:04
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Zore posted:Geneforge 2 is pretty similar to Mutagen except with a lot more choices and some more creations. More choices sounds great. After playing Geneforge 5 in a past Mutagen felt a little basic and straightforward. I really appreciated more urban and political environment of G5, it felt very refreshing. The core idea of G1 is very limiting so I guess not much could be done about it. I didn't finish it and I think the big questions of the game become obvious very early, and I couldn't keep my interest at the end game.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:20
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im gonna make the obnoxious post, pray for me PoE2 Deadfire is my fave CRPG of all time, maybe fave RPG but Disco Elysium is p good, would the Avernum reremakes, which I understand have been streamlined and polished up well, be a good choice to dive into?
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Mar 29, 2024 19:31
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They are fairly fundamentally different games. That doesn't mean that they'll be bad, just that you should set expectations. The Avernum games have you making your own party members from scratch. They have no dialog or banter, aside from prompting NPCs on what to talk about next. The presentation is simple, with limited animation. There are practically no situations where you're presented with a narratively ambiguous choice and have to decide which option to go with. What you do get is quality turn-based tactical combat, neat environments to explore (described with flavor text, because the art budget is low), lots of little secrets to find, and grand quests with climactic set piece battles.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:04
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I too consider PoE2 be the best. Compared to PoE2 reremakes are much more simple and also combat-focused. These games are primary dungeon crawls. There are towns and even missions not involving fighting, but your characters are defined by the way they fight, they don't have any personality, they don't make any choices. And the story is not bad but it's a very functional high fantasy tale. The character and equipment systems are also relatively simple, and this is a game where you can often turn out your brain and to trash fights unlike PoE2 that wants you to sit on the edge of your chair and calculate how can you use that breastplate and it's possible upgrades in your party composition. Queen's Wish, Avaddon and Geneforge are both more similar to PoE2. They are still dungeon crawls but involve a lot of politics, choices, dilemmas. Avernums are great dungeon crawlers in relatively pure form, these other games add a lot of other stuff. Geneforge 5 felt like a game very close to Fallout New Vegas. As I've just said Geneforge 1 felt relatively basic story-wise to me, but I've played some original games and you'll probably enjoy it more than other games in this series.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:09
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im okay going into them with the understanding i can have a crunchy combat system and decent plot, but nothing too high level. i guess what im really looking for is system depth on that level? where I've been playing Deadfire for years and still find new synergies and interactive systems, or at least character build ideas
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Mar 29, 2024 20:36
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Radia posted:im okay going into them with the understanding i can have a crunchy combat system and decent plot, but nothing too high level. i guess what im really looking for is system depth on that level? where I've been playing Deadfire for years and still find new synergies and interactive systems, or at least character build ideas You're not going to get that.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:37
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Radia posted:im okay going into them with the understanding i can have a crunchy combat system and decent plot, but nothing too high level. i guess what im really looking for is system depth on that level? where I've been playing Deadfire for years and still find new synergies and interactive systems, or at least character build ideas Yeah remember this is largely a one person project with some outside contractors for art and music. The combat system is decently deep and you can have some really cool challenge runs by doing things like a pacifist run or runs with limitations on Torment (the highest difficulty), but normal gameplay doesn't have anywhere near as many overlapping systems as Deadfire.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:42
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Arrhythmia posted:You're not going to get that. Arrhythmia posted:You're not going to get that. okay, i'll add them to my wishlist and take a look next time im downbad for a new rpg experience. thank you!
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Mar 29, 2024 20:47
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am I gonna miss out on a lot by not playing Geneforge 1 first?
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Mar 29, 2024 20:49
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Fuligin posted:am I gonna miss out on a lot by not playing Geneforge 1 first? Your character is new and ignorant of the events of G1 so I would say you are fine. There is an LP of the original if you want a quicker version of it.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:52
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Part of the issue with Jeff's games people are used to RPGs looking like that being hardcore and wordy. So I totally understand where Radia comes from. But these games are, like, normal. You could imagine games like these being made by BioWare if their art and sound teams went on strike.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:53
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Fuligin posted:am I gonna miss out on a lot by not playing Geneforge 1 first? Not particularly, there are references to it because it was a major inciting event that is the direct cause of this and a lot of characters recur. The game stands on its own though and will absolutely get you up to speed without having played it.
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Mar 29, 2024 21:27
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Nice, into the Vogelverse i go
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Mar 29, 2024 21:33
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Item Getter posted:Yeah this was also one of the Blades of Exile/Avernum scenario ideas I had back in the day and never really did anything with, something about being early explorers in the caves before they became a penal colony. It was intended to have a "gotcha" ending where the Empire seals the cave entrance behind you. And you'd be tasked with building a portal leading back to the surface, and then after building it find out that it's a one-way portal that can only drop people into the cave. Radia posted:okay, i'll add them to my wishlist and take a look next time im downbad for a new rpg experience. thank you!
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Mar 29, 2024 22:34
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Playing the original geneforge 1 is something everyone should experience. The snot-UI is a classic.
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Mar 29, 2024 23:24
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just bought the new geneforge. looking forward to playing it. i liked mutagen but i was always more of a exile/avernum guy and never played the original geneforges. thinking about it, i played all 3 exiles, blades of exile, nethergate, all 3 of the avernum re-remakes, the 2 avadons, and queens wish. idk why i never picked up geneforge
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Mar 30, 2024 14:01
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i would say avernum largely appeals to the exploration center of an rpg fan's brain: filling in maps and finding secrets where the rewards can be anything from a simple combat encounter with a special reward at the end to a more involved event that might either give or require a key item.
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Mar 30, 2024 14:11
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Yeah the exploring in the Avernum games is second to none. Also the feeling of being able to go anywhere, that is lessened by the second remakes.
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Mar 30, 2024 14:16
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who are you calling an rpg fan
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Mar 30, 2024 14:17
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fart simpson posted:just bought the new geneforge. looking forward to playing it. i liked mutagen but i was always more of a exile/avernum guy and never played the original geneforges. Just curious, which of the 3 Avadons are you conspicuously slighting here?
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Mar 30, 2024 23:13
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I say subconsciously might be more likely! Or just life circumstances meant they never bumped into Avadon 3. I don't think any of those were kickstarted so you can hit a weird awareness hole.
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Mar 30, 2024 23:18
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Tequila Bob posted:Just curious, which of the 3 Avadons are you conspicuously slighting here? i didnt know there were 3 avadons lol
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Mar 31, 2024 00:25
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Horace Kinch posted:Playing the original geneforge 1 is something everyone should experience. The snot-UI is a classic. I played netherforge after playing avernum... 2? And sent an email to Jeff saying the netherforge UI is a big step up.
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Mar 31, 2024 09:47
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fart simpson posted:i thought jeff was in his 20s He is - Geneforge 2: Infestation was his 28th release.
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Apr 9, 2024 14:51
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I just discovered this thread. I played the original Exile back in the day but never got very far in it. Some of the indie D&D stuff I've been reading got me thinking about it again over the past year. So the Avernum trilogy is available for Mac, that's good.
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Apr 16, 2024 17:15
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Halloween Jack posted:I just discovered this thread. I played the original Exile back in the day but never got very far in it. Some of the indie D&D stuff I've been reading got me thinking about it again over the past year. So the Avernum trilogy is available for Mac, that's good. Be aware Exiles 123 have been remade twice. IIRC it's Avernum 1,2,3 (4,5,6). Then Avernum(1,2,3):ThisTimeWithASub-title as the more recent ones. I think I prefer the later version of the Avernums, they are cheap enough try all of them I guess.
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Apr 16, 2024 17:29
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Are the Avadon games worth going through? I'd lost my A1 saves years ago, but thanks to recently getting a gaming PC, I'm starting to revisit some CRPGs I never finished earlier.
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Apr 16, 2024 18:10
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They're much more on rails than Avernum. I wasnt as much a fan but they're still OK.
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Apr 16, 2024 18:18
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Tequila Bob posted:Are the Avadon games worth going through? I'd lost my A1 saves years ago, but thanks to recently getting a gaming PC, I'm starting to revisit some CRPGs I never finished earlier. Gameplay-wise, they're a bit more restrictive than most Avernum games in terms of both structure and tactics. You get given a mission that opens up a new location, you go to the location and do the mission plus whatever sidequests are in that area, you go get another mission that opens up another new location; it's pretty directly inspired by the structure of the Dragon Age/Mass Effect era of BioWare RPGs. Each character class plays fairly differently from the others, and each one pretty much has two or three sensible builds that you can go for, usually giving them a choice between focusing on direct damage or buffs/debuffs. The balancing in the first two games is a little wonky so some builds don't quite work right, but I don't hate the idea in principle; yes, in theory Avernum gave you more versatility in that it let you make a character who put points into every skill and could do a little of everything, but it's not like they'd be good. You can still make bad characters in Avadon but it will generally be more obvious that they're not working out, and there's a respec option. The one big thing you can't undo is your main character's class: there are a few solo segments in each game, so it helps to play as someone who can both stand up in solo combat and deal with locks, which pretty much means a Shadowwalker in the first game and a Shadowwalker or Tinkermage in 2 and 3. It's not absolutely necessary, though. As far as writing goes, the best way I can sum up my impression of the series' tone is that doing the standard RPG thing of walking into people's houses and rifling through their stuff for anything you can sell kinda hits differently when your characters are the secret police and half the people you meet are telling you to just go away and leave them alone. Avernum had a serious main plot but still had a lot of lighthearted moments and incidental comedy; Avadon isn't entirely humour-free, but it's notably less cheery. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 01:47
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I think the Avadon vs Avernum thing comes mostly down to how the world's been built. Sure, you have more character freedom in Avernum/Exile, but the things your dudes do are more limited, but-but all of that doesn't matter, as having simple archtypes vs bespoke themed abilities doesn't matter one whit when you're having fun blasting dudes, getting loot, and really enjoying the world, exploration, lore, and general drift of things. Which is why I never really clicked on the Geneforge and especially Avadon games, they're just so dang limited it felt. I might go back and give a proper shake to Geneforge1 someday. (Uhh, assuming it hasn't been rebooted yet?) I did complete Avadon1 so I feel my feelings are justified there.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:21
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Serephina posted:I think the Avadon vs Avernum thing comes mostly down to how the world's been built. Sure, you have more character freedom in Avernum/Exile, but the things your dudes do are more limited, but-but all of that doesn't matter, as having simple archtypes vs bespoke themed abilities doesn't matter one whit when you're having fun blasting dudes, getting loot, and really enjoying the world, exploration, lore, and general drift of things. Geneforge has been rebooted.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:27
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Serephina posted:Which is why I never really clicked on the Geneforge and especially Avadon games, they're just so dang limited it felt. I might go back and give a proper shake to Geneforge1 someday. (Uhh, assuming it hasn't been rebooted yet?) I did complete Avadon1 so I feel my feelings are justified there.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:54
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is there any way to join the awakened that doesnt involve getting rid of the drayk in the crystal mine. i have level 15 creations and he still just demolishes me
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Apr 20, 2024 10:52
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