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- If you want to be career navy (hah) and have any reason to think you can't get a TS clearance, you may want to avoid going subs. The secret clearance check is kind of a joke, the TS one is not. I had a friend of mine whose wife was a Lebanese? national get told he was either to divorce his wife or leave the Navy (he left.) I think it restricted even his access to things on his JO tour, it certainly meant he couldn't do a DH tour. - Regarding the silent service, technically you're never allowed to tell -anyone- whether you'll be shipping out or pulling in until within 24 hours of departure / arrival. If you follow this to the T, it is a royal pain in the rear end. You need to have ways of taking care of your rent, car, other bills etc that are reliable yet don't depend on anyone knowing when you're coming or going. For married guys, this data is sort of an open secret to the wives' club, but that doesn't mean you can tell them. For single guys, get used to figuring out good excuses to tell that girl you just slept with why you can't say when you'll call, but it might be six or seven weeks out. - Similarly, when you're at sea, your life basically stops. Ok, you might work on quals but for the most part it's rote routine day in and out. It can be disorienting to deal with the fact that time does not stop for the people you leave on shore; your relationships may have changed dramatically without any of your involvement. This is a problem for any military deployment but the op tempo and isolation of subs I think really makes it an extreme case. - Regarding women on subs, I'm kind of curious how it'll work out, mainly because you're basically sniffing each other's asses for weeks on end. It's bad enough on a boat with all dudes, you already get guys underway that gently caress anything with an inviting orifice (not even talking other sailors, I mean vacuum cleaners, funnels etc) and the prettier dudes can get pawed at rather badly. Just banging on a table and demanding higher professionalism isn't going to magically make that go away, and having women in the surface navy (or female middies on summer sub cruises) haven't exactly always had the most encouraging outcomes. This isn't magically the fault of the women and it certainly isn't a reason to not put them on subs, but it'll be interesting to see nonetheless.
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Mar 10, 2013 15:51
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Mortabis posted:1. How much gay sex actually goes on down there? 1. It's not gay underway 2. Assuming they're not prior enlisted, JOs get 2-300 bucks a month extra for sub duty. The nuke bonus is considerably more, but does not require you to be on subs. All of this money is normally taxable.
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Mar 10, 2013 18:29
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Boomers have a little more room for exercise gear than fast boats. The boats are kept cold because there are lots of sensitive electronics, much of them 10-30 years out of date by civilian standards so they make a lot of heat. If you lose air conditioning it can get fairly unpleasant quickly. You generally don't have alarm clocks because they make noise, and noise is a no-no. A junior sailor goes around and wakes up the oncoming watch sections, with varying reliability. Because of drills / alarms etc you get conditioned to not sleep all that deep anyway. You still use 24 hour time and not everyone is always on an 18 hour rotation. Seeing as this is an officer thread, it should be pointed out that officers get staterooms that they generally share with a department head and another JO. This stateroom has maybe 8 square feet of floor space, but it does include a desk and some additional storage. It also has a door. This means JOs can figure out a schedule where they can, well, JO without having another human within arm's reach, a luxury few enlisted get. It doesn't really matter because you get used to beating it while making eye contact with other men in fairly short order. In fairly rare cases of overcrowding the juniorest JOs will be put into the nicer parts of enlisted berthing.
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Mar 10, 2013 22:29
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Ohio class SSBN hulls are a lot wider than attack sub hulls because of the size of the missiles. Also the relatively tall cylinder shapes of the missiles means there's a lot of room in the missile compartment. The SSGNs use the same hulls, even loaded for bear they are still much roomier inside than an attack boat. A quirk / design feature of the Ohios allows loading bulky equipment more easily. Fast boats don't have this. As a consequence, things like exercise bikes often have to be cut up, brought on board and then welded back together; since they get passed around between boats this can leave them pretty crooked and screwy after a while.
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Mar 11, 2013 01:52
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Any shmuck can go into Control and look at the charts to tell where you are. At least, I never did an op where this wasn't true. Officially we might be off the coast of 'Country Orange' but it wasn't a big secret (within the crew) of where that was and roughly why we were there. People talk during chow and in the waiting line, and JOs standing EOOW tend to brief the nukes working aft about what they see during training watches up forward. You can bring a laptop, desktop, DVD player, XBox, three foot rubber dildo, whatever you want, if you can find a place to keep it. In my last rack I had a toaster-sized PC, two external HDs, a PS3 and a 15" TV, because I was clever with mounting. I was also in good with the supply mafia, so I had commandeered a supply locker you had to climb into my rack yo get to, and I had personal lockers 'for test equipment' back aft and knew where seabags of clothes could be stashed without getting ruined. Boomer dudes will have more space. Dumb nub hot-rackers will have trouble finding room for their socks and underwear. Every now and then there'll be an issue with something being stolen from someone's rack, but that's generally in port. E: apparently that's all wildly out of date, lol
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Mar 11, 2013 02:08
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genderstomper58 posted:Did you read the guys post who is still in..... Yeah, wow Just think about a multiple-month underway with only some crusty shared copies of Randy Grannies and memory jacks to keep you sane Or even not having music for exercise / after watch cleanup Ugggh
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Mar 11, 2013 02:12
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This is another thing you will have to get used to if you go subs: there will be random shore-based officers, not sub dudes, not nukes, sometimes not even line, who will dump random and wildly foolish policies on you without any clue how or if they're going to work. At one point we had an in-port force protection plan pooped on us that was based on some destroyer plan, despite us having a third of the crew and almost none of the equipment. Our liberty rules while tied to the tender in Italy were more restrictive than those of the tender crew members < 6 months out of boot camp. On one joint op we were being given orders by non-Navy people who hadn't been given the need-to-know that we were even a warship. It's a quirk of sub chain of command, skimmers tend to stay under skimmers and the carriers carry all their decision-makers around with them.
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Mar 11, 2013 02:31
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Well at least you've still got beards, sodomy and the lash If putting women on boats means getting rid of those, might as well scuttle the hulls
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Mar 11, 2013 02:49
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That show might as well have been a documentary. I was stunned at how well researched and spot on it was
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Mar 11, 2013 05:16
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If it's a PCO level course, what job would be left to fill on a submarine for that rank other than captain anyway? Haven't the students already done an XO tour? E: I guess it's PXO. So if you fail you get cut from subs before your XO tour instead of after. That really doesn't sound as dramatic as it's made out to be. Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 04:38
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Golli posted:During port ingress/egress, surfaced - the periscope was routinely used by nav folk to mark bearings every three minutes or so, to keep us off the rocks. After our nav div failed to keep us off the rocks, one of the things we did was buy a Garmin and bring it up into the sail. Since I was the only nuke up there, I operated it. It was a nautical GPS, not one of the road ones, so it didn't have GPS lady voice so instead you got shivering RC divver voice.
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Mar 18, 2013 03:42
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To clarify, the "Sonar officer" is a JO in charge of the admin tasks of Sonar division. It is not, IIRC, a watchstation, he doesn't sit there listening to fish gently caress all day. Other than maybe getting to go in the sonar dome for inspections, there's not much especially tech-centric about the job, same as the other Div O positions. The Navy does tons and tons of sonar research but I think the bulk of the work is done by civilians one way or other. If you're interested I'd recommend looking into General Dynamics or whoever builds the specific sonar gear.
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Mar 27, 2013 13:00
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Pretty much every division has its own junior officer. Exceptions, the cooks and the supply guys (they have a new name that forget, were SKs) both fall under the Supply Officer, also known as SuppO or Chop, who is technically a department head but is usually only an O-3. There is an admin department, usually two or three yeomen. I think they report direct to the XO, generally, and sort of to the COB. What I've generally seen is that brand new nub JOs get sent back to the nukes. The paperwork is unforgiving but nuke LPOs and chiefs are most likely to know what they're doing and can handle coddling a fresh ensign or JG for a little while. Plus as a nub JO your first watchstation and much of your study time is spent back aft anyway. Coner division officer billets go to the guys already qualified EOOW/EDO, who know (just) enough not to be snowed by a senior enlisted trying to skate past doing the admin / prep work that really needs to be done. A-gang (the forward mechanics) generally get a more junior one since it's still technically under Engineering, anything under Weapons is usually a pretty senior JO because those divisions tend to be filled up to the leadership level with knuckledragging fuckups. There are exceptions to these rules if there's a sudden onrush of nub JOs (sometimes right after a deployment or before you hit the yards.) So nukes you have mechanics, electricians, reactor controls, chem/radcon. These plus A-gang make up Engineering. Nav divisions are navigation (obv), radio, I think another I forget. Weps gets torpedomen, sonar, fire control. Supply and the yeomen I already mentioned. Boomers have missile techs and maybe something else, presumably under Weps. There are also collateral divisions (Deck div, divers etc) and they'll probably have a JO with a regular division that also handles them. E: goddammit E2: Oh yeah, I forgot the doc
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Mar 28, 2013 03:17
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Mr. Nice! posted:It's a boat, not a ship. When surfaced you will in fact generally rig up a civilian radar set like you'd find in a moderately nice civilian motorboat. Radar is as much about being seen as it is seeing others and for self-explanatory reasons civilian ESM doesn't pick up military radar well. You'll also put up big radar reflectors, a light mast, etc. Surfaced subs would run around constantly blazing Roman candles if they could - even the big ones are hard to spot on the surface with eyes or radar and getting run over is no fun for anybody.
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Mar 28, 2013 21:41
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Best Friends posted:With that tight space, what is the deal with BO and farts? I imagine dudes who reek are seriously loving hated and hazed. y/n? Until recently it was very rare to have enough water for everyone to shower every day. Showers are still brief affairs. The laundry services are questionable. You end up smelling quite a bit of butts but there are plenty of other unpleasant odors stirred in.
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Mar 28, 2013 21:50
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 This is a moored submarine. I forget the jargon but the cleats flip over leaving a flush surface so they don't cause drag/noise while submerged. The capstan also retracts; it's very rarely used, I don't think I ever saw it employed. This isn't my picture but I think on this boat it's under that front bight. I used to be able to name all the lines and tell you the arrangements, but not any more. The lines look like IXXI. Lines are stored below and if at all possible the dock's lines are used instead, it's a big pain in the rear end unstowing and stowing the onboard ones. Shore power adapters are kept on board for emergencies but in general you need shore-provided cables. Couple things to note about this pic. Subs sit very low on the surface and often are under pier level (depending on tide) unlike a surface ship that pretty much always looks down onto the pier. You can see the brow just sort of dumps you onto the unrailed deck. This can lead to entertainment when guys come back to the ship ripped drunk in a foreign port. Subs obviously do not carry their own brows, unlike many surface ships. The big black thing you see under the brow is a Yokohama barrier; a sub's widest point is underneath the surface so it needs these special barriers to keep from banging into the pier. These are also not carried onboard. If you don't have a shore-side brow and something like Yokohamas, you're not docking. On the other hand you can do unassisted landings. They can be tricky, especially depending on who's driving (they're often done for quals for new officers), weather and current conditions etc. We had one utterly botched port call in Panama City where we had to do a no-poo poo unassisted landing, no tugs, no lines, unfamiliar pier, had to shout at the dudes from the Chinese oiler on the other side of the pier to help us handle the brow. That port call also saw the only unassisted takeoff I've ever heard of (we just tossed the brow overboard.)  If you look here, see the guys up in the sail, the guys standing on top, that's where I usually stood as we came in / left port. That white dome thing over their heads is the civilian radar temporarily mounted on top of the nav ID mast. My understanding was the bigger ships, ones where the bridge may not be manned all the time, have some sort of alarm that screams if it starts getting painted with a surface search radar to get someone to come up and check for contacts, but I don't remember where I got that. Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Mar 29, 2013 |
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Mar 29, 2013 06:13
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We dropped ours as part of some workup. It didn't break. Everyone did seem surprised. We dropped our outboard once and it fell off so I guess the karma evened out.
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Mar 29, 2013 21:48
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genderstomper58 posted:Haha never even though about e-cigs, figured everyone just went to dip or murder 
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Mar 31, 2013 08:00
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I compacted a big bottle of blue ink once. That shitstorm lasted weeks. It doesn't matter what goes in the ocean. Dilution is the solution.
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Mar 31, 2013 20:49
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Cerekk posted:Florida shot a bunch of Tomahawks at Libya. The Georgia was supposed to but some jerk had dropped a bolt in her reduction gears. Right around the beginning of the Iraq War, the US and France were having diplomatic issues, with Chirac stubbornly refusing to formally OK the war and continuing to deliver weapons to Saddam pretty much until our bombs started to fall. The De Gaulle was in the Gulf and keeping her E-2s in the air, and there was some concern that the French were using them to track American strike aircraft and possibly giving the data to the Iraqis. Then, within a week of the war starting, the De Gaulle skedaddled out of the Gulf rather impromptu. There's a sea story that we parked a 688i or two in her vicinity and told the French if she kept flying her AWACS once the shooting war started that we'd send her to the bottom; like all sea stories, take this with a cup of salt. When you're not fighting WWIII, submarine roles lean heavily to intelligence gathering and similar sneaky poo poo, so there are probably more 'got shot at' stories out there than 'got to shoot' stories.
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Apr 1, 2013 02:21
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When we messed with the Gotland in '05? they also had a bunch of super-hot women on board
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Apr 2, 2013 03:47
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Among many other things you can't really control the heat output from decay heat like you can with a critical reactor. You want to be able to turn it down and, most importantly, turn it off.
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Apr 2, 2013 05:45
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Hauldren Collider posted:Questions from someone who knows basically nothing about submarines apart from the obvious-- 1. The AIPs get up to about 20 knots or so submerged. Not sure how long they can sustain it (obviously not as long as a nuke boat.) You're thinking of diesel boats running on battery. 2. The question doesn't really work. The US doesn't have a huge coastal defense problem; we don't have pirates sieging our ports or a viable threat of amphibious invasion. The kind of small-boat drug-running, human smuggling etc that does go on is better dealt with by Coast Guard cutters and the like. We also have huge, huge coastlines. AIP boats are constrained in total range, time on station (by food stores as much as fuel), average speed, etc. They make sense for countries with limited littorals (Sweden, Israel etc) but the geography of pretty much anything the US wants to do requires the endurance of nukes to do effectively. 3. Generally we just used flashcards and Post-its. Snoring was strictly prohibited, they hid all the Rice Krispies boxes and you were required to sit to pee.
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Apr 3, 2013 06:22
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We spent weeks at UQ. Our coners actually complained because they were getting behind on their crews-mess movie watching. UQ means no after watch cleanup. One COB pushed for a 'patrol quiet' which was just like UQ only you still had the hour of cleanup, because "ORSE is coming." Made taking the spec op seriously a little harder.
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Apr 3, 2013 11:39
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genderstomper58 posted:We still did after watch clean up, field days, drill walkthroughs and training no matter what We came off station for field days and drills. I guess the bad guys didn't do anything important on the weekends.
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Apr 3, 2013 15:35
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Watchstanders have 6 hours to clean already, if your boat was that filthy that fast you probably had a bunch of lazy slobs.
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Apr 7, 2013 23:40
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Baloogan posted:Do you guys pressurize the air inside the sub? Inside the hull pressure is kept at 1 atmosphere (give or take.) You don't need to take SCUBA-type ascent/descent precautions for nitrogen absorption or anything like that. The pressure hull is very strong to handle the difference in internal / external pressures. This is also why the hull compresses somewhat as you dive. And if you get a hole, water blasts in instead of just kind of trickling.
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Apr 8, 2013 00:25
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Golli posted:There are too many reminders - reprocessed air, no sunlight, up and down angles. Constant man-on-man groping
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Apr 8, 2013 00:48
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Gay but Spooky posted:Is anyone gay on the sub? Is it ok to be gay on a submarine? What are the gay friendly areas on a sub? The short answer is "it depends, it depends, it depends" Keep in mind I've been out of the Navy for six years. My boat didn't have anyone officially out that I knew of (this was during DADT, after all) but there were many guys that were only barely secret about it (one guy in my division was known as "The Riddler" because he was 'so questionable'.) No one really gave two shits about it one way or other. To my knowledge there was no genuine gay romance underway (being underway is considerably less sexy than you'd imagine) nor were there any genuine gay unwanted approaches. That was my boat, other boats differed. There were always stories from other boats about unwanted homosexual activity, usually tied to abuse of rank (i.e. "I woke up in my rack and the nav was blowing me!") I'm sure there were boats that were more hostile. Even with DADT in the sub (and especially nuclear) navy it would have been absurd to boot people simply for being gay, because you needed to fill the billet; I had a guy practically go Corporal Klinger queen to try to get out of nuke school and his chief refused to process him. Now we did have what is euphemistically called "a lot of fruity poo poo" from otherwise hetero dudes (think friendly locker room antics) but that's all over the military. We had at least one larger fellow who liked to paw at the smaller and prettier boys in an often unwelcome manner, but that was likely less to do with sexual preference and more to do with the guy being a creepo. Sexual frustration also leads to some really odd behavior after a while (I've mentioned before that we had one guy that raped all the vacuum cleaners.) I'm not sure what you mean by "gay friendly areas." There is zero privacy on a sub so there's little reason to go somewhere to do something you wouldn't do on crew's mess. I'm pretty sure I saw other dudes ejaculate many times but they did have the decency to do it under a sheet and only once can I recall the guy making eye contact. How this all differs from today's theoretically gay-friendlier Navy, I dunno. EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:So if somebody rips a heinous fart, do you end up smelling it for days? No, because the boat smells constantly of farts, balls and rear end sweat (and nasty chemicals) the moment you shut the hatch.
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Apr 8, 2013 01:20
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EvilElmo posted:Is there a ocean equivalent of turbulence? Chop. Submarines don't roll well with waves to begin with, you get stormy weather and wind going and it can be a rough ride. The deeper you go the less of an issue it is.
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Apr 24, 2013 09:18
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It was ok to sleep to. It sucked sometimes being up in the bridge (surfaced, not PD, obv.) On watch it could be awful. My first maneuvering watchstation was shaft alley phone talker and I'd get really nauseous, lie down under the shaft and often fall asleep, got kicked awake by the EWS once. Standing watch you could watch some of the levels rock back and forth with the boat. We did a surface dropoff for some idiot to get off the boat in the middle of a tropical storm, ended up having to touch the pier for it, I ended up throwing up at the RPCP, RT brought me in a trash bag, I blew my business (undigested spaghetti noodles, I wasn't eating anything more complicated in that scenario) and then went back to taking logs.
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Apr 24, 2013 17:30
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Hauldren Collider posted:If it flips over, how do you correct it? I assume it doesn't result in the boat sinking. That is, sinking permanently. Your assumption is wrong. Zero-speed depth control is purely a ballast issue but in motion (particularly at higher speeds) it is a function of the control surfaces, sort of like a plane. If a sub rolls beyond a certain angle as part of maneuvering, it's like rolling a big jet; it will dive uncontrollably and almost assuredly be destroyed. When my boat got a new rudder, it was different from the old one in certain ways, making us unique in the fleet and outside design parameters. So we did certain tests to check the performance that involved disabling certain interlocks and violating normal limits. Several tests had failure conditions involving corkscrewing to certain death. There are also a lot of bilges and tanks vented to the people space that are going to barf all over you if you bank too hard, so you want to avoid doing that. If a boat rolls hard because it hit something (been there, done that, needed a new rudder from it) it's quite bad, but if the ship's not completely hosed up, it will right itself. Take a look at the Hartford pics where she hit another ship hard enough to nearly take the sail off as an example. Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Apr 25, 2013 |
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Apr 25, 2013 02:17
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GAS CURES KIKES posted:Why? Ballast tanks are open on the bottom. When you normally blow ballast, the water is pushed out the bottom, lighter air stays in the tanks and you rise. If you are inverted or beyond a certain roll angle, the air just squirts out and you die. Think of it like holding a bucket of air underwater and then tipping it over.
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Apr 25, 2013 03:00
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Shimazu I'm sure you understand why we don't talk reactorland stuff here. Old subs used to have twin screws, fairly small, side by side. Newer (American) boats are all one big screw out the boat's centerline. They can also put some serious, serious torque on that screw if you give it the beans. Think of the behavior of, say, a twin-engine Beechcraft vs a P-51 (a race one with clipped wings.) Think about how that souped-up P-51 is going to react to inadvertent strange angles of attack and what kind of action / response time is needed to recover it. Sort of how a race P-51 flies a few hundred feet off the deck, the sub only has a few hull lengths to move in the vertical before it is either crushed by sea pressure or broaches (which has other dangers.) You could estimate how long this would take, if you cared that much, using publicly available numbers.
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Apr 25, 2013 06:27
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grover posted:While moving on the surface, can the control surfaces on the tail act as ailerons to counteract roll and keep the boat steadier? No.
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Apr 25, 2013 10:58
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I'd never make it in the Air Force, my golf handicap is far too high
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Apr 26, 2013 02:55
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Independent control surfaces means more mechanical apparatus, more pressure hull penetrations (bad) etc. We probably don't want to get into the physical details. There is delay in control response and I don't see how a human driver could react quickly enough to make it worthwhile; I'm not sure how much purchase the tailplanes have on the surface anyway. The entire teardrop hull concept is optimized for submerged ops at the cost of surfiace handling. It's not worth design compromises for the short surface transits needed.
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Apr 26, 2013 03:52
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holocaust bloopers posted:I didn't even think that a jammed control surface could even happen to a sub. Couldn't you just kill the props to stop any motion if you were in a jammed dive? Everything has an asston of momentum, you don't stop on a dime. Also, think how the controllability of a plane gets if you just cut the engines or reversed thrust.
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Apr 26, 2013 04:18
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Just as an example of what I mentioned to Shimazu, let's use the public numbers of 20 knots top speed and 700 feet dive floor. 20kts * 1.15mi/kt * 5280 ft/mi * 1 hr/ 60 min = ~2000 feet / min of speed. Assume the best case depth of 350 ft for max safety margin. Now assume a failed control casualty yielding a 30 degree up/down angle. pulled that number from nowhere because it makes for nice math; namely sin (30) = 0.5 so our vertical rate is 0.5 (2000) or 1000 ft/min. So you have 350/1000 minutes or 21 seconds to identify the casualty and correct before you broach or violate a depth limit. Now think of the force necessary to crash stop a 7000-15000 ton warship in 21 seconds.
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Apr 26, 2013 04:36
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ded posted:"Jam dive" ranks up there with "Torpedo in the water" as far as just how hosed you are in sub lingo. A jammed control surface is one the things you would do an emergency blow for. Also there are no "props" on a sub, it's called a SCREW. There are far worse things than either 'jam dive' or 'torpedo in the water'. I won't go into what these would be for nukes but for instance for sonarmen like ded it would be 'showers secured'
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Apr 26, 2013 05:10
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