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EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
I've been giving access to Worldly from Noble to my players instead of Multiclass Dabbler. It keeps player niches safe, and it's kind of cool seeing them negotiate for who will get the most use out of any given move.

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EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
Another rescue from the old thread.

I think this could use some help. I like the flavor, I think it's a good class, but I'm not remotely sure if it's balanced or not. Ideas?

Beguiler posted:

THE BEGUILER
a Dungeon World class

Damage Die: d6
Hit Points: 6+CON

--Starting Moves--
Look Into My Eyes - When you use enchantment to ensnare the mind of an enemy, roll +CHA.
10+ - You make a command of three words or less, and your opponent follows it as best as he can. He will not harm himself directly.
7-9 - As 10+, but your command is a single word.

Beguiler's Cloak - When you weave an illusion to conceal your identity, roll +CHA.
10+ - Your disguise and poise is flawless and will not be noticed until it's too late.
7-9 - Something seems off about your disguise. While it will stand up to casual observation, it will fall apart under scrutiny.

Thoughtsend - You may communicate wordlessly and securely via telepathy with anyone you have a Bond with.

Daggers Behind Smiles - When you meet people who have no reason to believe you might betray them, they find you trustworthy and charming.

-- Level 2-5 Advanced Moves--

Man of Mystery
You may choose a move from the Thief, Bard, or Noble classes.

Trustworthy
You may roll +Cha instead of +Bond with anyone you have a Bond with.

Memory Adjustment
Instead of making a command with Look Into My Eyes, you may force them to forget a recent memory. Describe what they actually remember instead.

Regal Bearing
Your hirelings' trust is eerily implicit. Their loyalty is +1 and you may substitute "make me pleased" for their Cost.

Hypnotic Decree
You may add an additional word to your commands with Look Into My Eyes, for a total of 4 on 10+ and 2 on 7-9.

Gaslight
You may use Thoughtsend on anyone in your field of vision. When you use Thoughtsend to disrupt an enemy's actions, roll +CHA.
10+ - Your enemy is deeply shaken as you prey upon his innermost insecurities. You and your allies take +1 Ongoing against them.
7-9 - Your enemy is unnerved, but still capable of defending himself. You or your allies take +1 Forward against them.

Sift Through Secrets
When you read the mind of someone who trusts you in order to find their secrets, roll +CHA.
10+ - The secrets you uncover are deeply hidden, perhaps even forgotten by the person who holds them.
7-9 - The secrets you uncover are useful, but letting on that you know them will break their trust in you.
6- - The secrets you uncover are useless, petty, or boring at best.

Cloak of Invisibility
When you use Beguiler's Cloak, you may instead use your magic to render yourself completely incapable of being seen or heard. When you take violent action, you are revealed.

Charm Person
When you weave enchantment to force someone who trusts you into becoming more pliable and helpful, roll +CHA.
10+ - They trust you implicitly, and will treat you as an old friend. They suspect nothing.
7-9 - Your magic holds, but only temporarily. You must work fast to get what you need from them or they will become suspect.


--Level 6-10 Advanced Moves--

How Clumsy Of You
When you use Look Into My Eyes, you may cause your enemy to ignore self preservation and/or harm himself directly. If he would do damage directly to himself, roll your damage die.

International Man of Mystery
You may choose a move from the Thief, Bard, or Noble classes.

Cloak of Mists (Requires Cloak of Invisibility)
When you use Beguilers Cloak to turn yourself invisible, you cannot be touched, and you may pass through walls. When you take violent action, you are revealed.

Dominate Monster (Requires Charm Person)
When you roll 12+ on Look Into My Eyes, you may make your target a thrall. Their loyalty is 1, and your command becomes their Cost. You may only have one thrall at a given time, and if you use Dominate Monster while you already have a thrall, your previous thrall is released from your clutches.

Iron Hypnotic Decree (Requires Hypnotic Decree)
You may add an additional word to your commands with Look Into My Eyes, for a total of 5 on 10+ and 3 on 7-9.

Tabula Rasa (Requires Mind Sculpting and Sift Through Secrets)
When you roll 12+ on Look Into My Eyes, you may instead rewrite your target’s memories entirely.

--Alignments--
Neutral - Solve a problem by forcing your will on another.
Evil - Take advantage of someone weaker than yourself for your personal gain or amusement.

--Racial Moves--
Elf - Your elven eyes need only starlight to see perfectly in darkness.
Human - When people are charmed by or trust you, they will overlook minor discrepancies in your behavior.
Changeling - The changes you make with Beguilers Cloak are physical and real, you take +1 to Beguilers Cloak rolls.

--Gear--
You carry a dagger (hand, 1 weight, precise), and dungeon rations.
Choose two:
[] Black leather armor (Armor 1)
[] Adventuring gear and dungeon rations.
[] Impressive silk robes, and a snake staff with jeweled eyes (close, 1 weight, reach)
[] An inassuming blank sheet of paper that says exactly what you want it to say, when you want it to say it.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
Only in Dungeon World would I ever be amped as hell to play a mailman.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
I'm not sure if this is working as intended, but I've got a player using the Survivor preview. He used Defend, blew one hold on Redirect to Self, and blew the other three hold on "do damage equal to your level." He uses You Are Already Dead to trade the meager damage in for three Fate, and immediately cashes in, doing enough damage in one action to one-shot a mountain.

Make no mistakes, it was unconscionably bitchin, and I am completely OK with this sort of insane Exalted level of play. He had just piledrivered a centipede the size of a subway car into star dust.

I just want to know if this is intended behavior, and something I should be looking out for every time he rolls for Defend.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
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gnome7 posted:

This is not intended, although that is extremely clever. I think I will change the trigger to "when you deal your damage", rather than dealing damage by any means at all. Being able to obliterate anything by using Defend is not the intention at all.

I'll tell him his idea was extremely clever then! Thank you for saving an entire catalog of monsters from a fate worse than dying in outrageously awesome ways.

I might still let him gain a single Fate this way, since stepping in between an innocent bystander, lightly touching an opponent six times, and having them explode from every chakra point is still totally awesome if completely unintended. I wouldn't even want to imagine how to word it to make it fit on a playbook though.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
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madadric posted:

I'm messing about with a class done for chuckles' sake, The Fool.

A lot of the moves are about causing mishap and mayhem and just bumbling through. I'm also wondering if the Calamity mechanic of filling in squares will be fun.

I was kind of reluctant to look this over because the jester archetype is always so weirdly creepy, but this looks like a lot of fun. I like the idea of a somewhat pathetic character who was "just trying to help" messing up everything and failing forward all day, while out of game everyone knows that they're eventually getting a benefit out of it all.

Along those lines, though, I might tighten up the choices on Foolproof. "Everyone understands their role in the plan" is weirdly worded so that your mere involvement can baffle somebody else out of position. This is really the kind of class that asks that you, specifically, do most of the screwing up.

Outside of that, I'm not really sure which ones are the starting moves but that's pretty easily fixed.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Dungeon World's custom class bloat is like 3.5's custom class bloat except every new class is somehow cooler than the last.

I find that I absolutely have to trim down on the available classes for first-time players now. I set twenty-two classes in front of my last group and they just stared at me. "How can you ask us to make a choice," they asked, "when all the choices are correct?"

God I need to get back to my Beguiler, starting with a better name and going from there.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
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Oh no, no no no no, what I meant was that it's like the exact opposite of 3.5 class bloat. Instead of a new class being a vaguely new variant on something that already exists, I have been absolutely thrilled at the idea to play as almost every single new Dungeon World class. Even fairly similar seeming classes (Walker vs Assassin vs Thief, Fighter vs Improved Fighter vs Barbarian vs Gladiator, Wizard vs Mage) play out in drastically different fashions because there's so much design space available.

The problem with having "too many classes" isn't that there are too many, it's that there are so many cool ones that it's hard to make an immediate decision.

I can live with that problem.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 17:06 on May 14, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
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So, after a little extra tuning, I think that Beguiler might be ready for some critique.

Beguiler posted:

THE BEGUILER
a Dungeon World class

Damage Die: d6
Hit Points: 6+CON

--Starting Moves--

Daggers Behind Smiles - When you meet people who have no reason to believe you might betray them, they find you unusually trustworthy and charming.

Thoughtsend - You may communicate wordlessly and securely via telepathy with anyone you have a Bond with.

Hypnotic Suggestion - When you use enchantment to ensnare the mind of an enemy, roll +CHA.
10+ - You make a command of two words or less, and your opponent involuntarily follows it as best as he can. He will not harm himself directly.
7-9 - As 10+, but your command is a single word.

Beguiler's Cloak - When you weave an illusion to conceal your identity, roll +CHA.
10+ - Your disguise and poise is flawless and will not be noticed until it's too late.
7-9 - Something seems off about your disguise. While it will stand up to casual observation, it will fall apart under scrutiny.


-- Level 2-5 Advanced Moves--

How Clumsy Of You
When you use Hypnotic Suggestion, you may cause your enemy to ignore self preservation and/or harm himself directly. If he would do damage directly to himself, roll your damage die.

One With Shadows
You may choose a move from any class. Unless this move makes you more stealthy or better at clouding the minds of men, you are treated as being one level lower when you use this move.

Clearly Trustworthy
You may roll +Cha instead of +Bond with anyone you have a Bond with.

Little Voices
You may use Thoughtsend on any intelligent creature within your vision.

Hypnotic Decree
You may add an additional word to your commands with Hypnotic Suggestion, for a total of 3 on 10+ and 2
on 7-9.

Sift Through Secrets
When you read the mind of someone who trusts you in order to find their secrets, roll +CHA.
10+ - The secrets you uncover are deeply hidden, perhaps even forgotten by the person who holds them.
7-9 - The secrets you uncover are useful, but letting on that you know them will break their trust in you.
6- - The secrets you uncover are useless, petty, or boring at best.

Cloak of Invisibility
When you use Beguiler's Cloak, you may instead use your illusions to render yourself incapable of being seen. When you take violent action, you are revealed.

Charm Person
When you weave enchantment to persuade someone who trusts you into becoming more pliable and helpful, roll +CHA.
10+ - They trust you implicitly, and will treat you as an old friend. They suspect nothing.
7-9 - Your magic holds, but only temporarily. You must work fast to get what you need from them or they will become suspect.


--Level 6-10 Advanced Moves--

Gaslight
Instead of making a command with Hypnotic Suggestion, you may force them to forget a recent memory. Describe what they actually remember instead.

One With Night
You may choose a move from any class. Unless this move makes you more stealthy or better at clouding the minds of men, you are treated as being one level lower when you use this move.

Regal Bearing
Your hirelings' trust is eerily implicit. Their loyalty is +1 and you may substitute "the praise and approval of their employer" for their Cost.

Cloak of Mists (Requires Cloak of Invisibility)
When you use Beguilers Cloak, you may instead become a shadowy mist. You cannot be touched, and you may pass through even the tiniest hole or crack. When you take violent action, you become solid once more.

Dominate Monster (Requires Charm Person)
You can use Charm Person on any creature of at least animal intelligence.

Iron Hypnotic Decree (Requires Hypnotic Decree)
You may add an additional word to your commands with Hypnotic Suggestion, for a total of 4 on 10+ and 3 on 7-9.

Tabula Rasa (Requires Gaslight and Sift Through Secrets)
When you roll 12+ on Hypnotic Suggestion, you may instead rewrite your target’s memories entirely. It will take them days to regain a semblance of their previous self.

--Drive--
Take advantage of others for personal gain.

????

Third Thing


--Background--

Conman -

Secret Society -

Changeling - The changes you make with Beguiler's Cloak are physical and real, you take +1 to Beguiler's Cloak rolls.

Fourth thing???


--Gear--
You carry a dagger (hand, 1 weight, precise), and dungeon rations.
Choose two:
[] Black leather armor (Armor 1)
[] Adventuring gear and dungeon rations.
[] Impressive silk robes, and a snake staff with jeweled eyes (close, reach)
[] A collection of passports and forged letters of recommendation.
[] An inassuming blank sheet of paper that says exactly what you want it to say, when you want it to say it.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
While I was working on the Beguiler, I came up with a few ideas for another compendium class. I'm sure it could be stretched into some kind of Prince of Persia/Chrono Trigger core class but I think that it makes an OK compendium class too. It still needs a name, but other than that!

Escortmission posted:

THE GUY WHO DOES TIME TRAVEL AND ALTERNATE REALITY STUFF
A Dungeon World Compendium Class

When you cross over to an alternate reality or timeline, you may take "The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same" at your next Level Up.

The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same
As a result of your journey, you and those close to you are "unstuck" in time and space. You and those who you share a Bond with are unaffected by paradox and timeline changes. Objects and people that are not in their proper universe or timeline feel "wrong" to you.

--Advanced Moves--

More Than One of Everything
When you concentrate for a few moments and reach through time and space to take something from another timeline, roll +Con.
10+: You reach through time-space and take exactly what you need without temporal or spatial distortion occuring.
7-9: What you bring back through isn't exactly what you need, but it will have to do. Describe how what you receive is different than what you expected.

Never Alone
When you temporarily take advantage of being unstuck in spacetime to be in two places at once, roll +Con.
10+: You have about a minute before spacetime corrects itself and your double disappears.
7-9: You have precious seconds before spacetime corrects itself and your double disappears.

That's Not How It Happened At All
When you fail a roll, you may reroll with -1 forward. The second roll cannot be rerolled.

The Road Not Travelled
When you make a roll and try to influence the future, the GM describes an alternate outcome for your roll, and you may choose to take either outcome. The use of this ability is exhausting and unnatural. You take -1 Ongoing until you can get a chance to rest and clear your mind, and at the GM's option there may be further temporal or spatial distortion.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
Managed to get some playtesting done on the Beguiler tonight! I learned that the Beguiler's Cloak and Thoughtsend mechanics were surprisingly fun and rewarding, Daggers Behind Smiles didn't make much sense, and the Hypnotic Suggestion mechanic as written was kind of lame and hard to use properly. So I made some edits, threw out some moves that were garbage, installed put in some new ones, and I feel like it's really coming together.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1017317/Beguiler.pdf

It should only be missing Goals and a little more interesting equipment right now, and that can probably wait til morning.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
I guess the question to ask is whether there's enough design space for a full "bounty hunter" class. Bounty hunters take jobs, track down the bad guy, and bring them to justice. Tracking down the bad guy is arguably the largest and most fun part of the role, so would you really want to just reduce something that to two or three moves?

Maybe it would be better to come up with a new Basic Move for this sort of thing, something to get the ball rolling on an exciting manhunt. Maybe something like this.

Legwork
When you do about an hour of research and legwork about a dangerous criminal on the run, roll +CHA. On a 10+, choose three. On a 7-9, choose two. On a miss, choose one, and you make a dangerous scene as you're gathering info.
* You learn where his last known whereabouts are.
* You learn a fact about the criminal's strengths or abilities that isn't commonly known.
* You learn an exploitable weakness or quirk about your quarry.
* You cover your tracks discretely, and he won't know you're after him until you make your presence known.


EDIT: Alternatively, use Lemon Curdistan's Assassin. It's basically awesome and might be exactly the sneaky, calculating contract killer you're looking for.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 21:07 on May 22, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
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Overemotional Robot posted:

Yeah, meant to respond to that first suggestion but got caught up in something and forgot. You guys are right, the more I think about it the more I think that it could be any of them. I just had a players asking me about it and could have sworn I saw it as a CC or something. Thanks!


Has anyone tried using the Captain in a Dungeon Planet type game? I am thinking of running it.

Misread and I thought you said "has anyone tried playing Captain Planet in Dungeon World." Not sure if that's awesome or just awful.

I've had a player run Captain in a regular DW game and he was pretty thrilled with it. I don't see a reason why it would particularly not fit in Dungeon Planet, the class is already basically Han Solo. Just give them excuses to unload Cargo every so often and you'll be fine.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.

MadScientistWorking posted:

Well I finished my "compendium class*" which is a Firefighter. Its a bit problematic as I'm trying to bash an entire class archetype into a compendium class but I'd rather see some feedback for the moves I currently have especially with regards to Rescue Proficiency. I like the triggering mechanism for it but I for the life of me can't figure out what it should do mechanically. Also, discount the emergency wording trigger for some of the moves as I completely forgot that I need to rewrite the moves to make them easier to trigger.
http://goo.gl/979Wd
*Technically its a class but I've hit multiple snags with it and decided to work on half a dozen other compendium classes that I need to work on.

Backpack Water Cannon - This is a cool idea, although the tags are kind of a mess. Forceful is good, although it should have at least Close and maybe Loud. I'm not sure what water elemental is supposed to do, and you realize that if it can do lethal damage it can blow a hole in a guy's head right? I'm also not sure what it counting as your Signature Weapon is supposed to mean, can you use Blacksmith and Heirloom with it or does it combine with the Signature Weapon ability to get abilities like Serrated or Sharp?

Prime the Pumps - Do you have to be near water for this to work, or does the water come from somewhere else? How long does it take, a solid minute, a few crucial moments, can you reload instantly?

Bunker Gear - Most fire attacks also have Ignore Armor, maybe "takes two less damage from fire attacks" or even "takes half damage" or "is impervious to fire attacks." You're The Firefighter, facing fire is what you do. I have no idea what the other part about being armed and armored means, its almost implying that your gear protects you even though you're not even wearing it. Maybe "it takes you a split second to become armed and put on your armor" is a better reflection of what you're looking for?

Emergency Perimeter - This is pretty OK, although its not entirely clear if the civilians leave the surrounding area or they just all leave the burning building (I assume it means you can clear out rubberneckers). It's strictly a lot better than Discern Realities, but this is one of the Fireman's Things and doesn't actually come up that often, so I think that you're within bounds. It would be cool to get civilians to help by forming a fire bucket chain as an option, too.

Emergency Entrance - This is a really complicated Defy Danger DEX that uses INT. The class has a lot of moves already, is cutting this and using Defy Danger DEX an option?

Hydraulic Push - This is pretty great. Please please please put in a move that builds off of this that lets you hover like Mario Sunshine so I don't have to push the earth away from me like some kind of 3.5 player.

Light Speedrescue - Why is this using STR? This is another Defy Danger DEX that uses a different stat, why not just use the standard Defy Danger framework and let bad things happen on their own?

Rescue Proficiency - While I know this is part of firefighter training, this just seems more like something a ranger class would be doing. I'd also call it something Search and Rescue, moves should give a pretty good idea of what they do just by their name. That having been said, I want this sort of idea on my rangers now.

I think there's a cool class in here, but you should think of ways that the Firefighter can be useful in situations that aren't fires. Maybe something that lets him to use his axe to quickly and safely hack through a barrier or obstacle, or an ability to let you carry somebody over your shoulder (maybe two people?) without it counting against your Load (Fireman's Carry?). Do Firefighters know rapid first aid techniques? Maybe they can have something to let people ignore debilities temporarily or stabilize unconscious victims.

That's all I got man, good luck.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.

GimpInBlack posted:

It's been too drat long since I got my Dungeon World on.

So, Sage and Adam are taking the Barbarian away from the old D&D "rage monster" to the more Conan-esque "gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirths" angle. And that's cool. But it means there's thematic space available for The Berserk!

Like I did with the Gladiator, I wanted to play with some new mchanical widgets for this class. In the Berserk's case, I came up with a way of modeling rage that I think avoids the "tactical consideration" feel of the binary raging/not raging approach D&D takes. I also came up with a mechanic that handles the "you're an out of control rage maniac" risk without turning into "you don't get to play your character any more" bullshit.

This is still in pretty rough form. It's got a full set of moves, alignments, and lodges (instead of races), but no fluff or equipment yet. Move names are definitely temp. It's also completely untested; stuff may be totally busted all to hell. Still, I'm turning it loose in this thread for my fellow goons to rip apart.

I want to run one of these real bad. The damage might be a little too high across the board (d12+d8+d6 by level three? :drat:) but hopefully that will shake out in testing. While its always a little disappointing when a class doesn't get a multiclass move, not letting the Berserk get his hands on the Fighter's Signature Weapon is probably for the best.

When you Rage, do you get +1 STR/CON stat, or +1 Ongoing to STR/CON?

With Eagle Lodge, maybe you could get another question from Discern Realities instead of the +1?

Uhhh beyond that that's about it. Gonna print this out and see if somebody will put together a one-shot and let me play Brick.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Echophonic posted:

I really dig this. Love the Fringe reference for 'More Than One of Everything,' too. There's always 'The Slider' or 'The Leaper' for the name.

I was actually working on cleaning that one up a little, I thought it needed just one more move and a little clarification. I like "The Slider" a lot, so I'm stealing the hell out of that.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1017317/The%20Slider.pdf

I should probably get some of these into actual Indesign documents.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 01:23 on May 25, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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TheDemon posted:

Prophecy needs a little more oomph, I think. It's hard to justify taking that in place of a class advanced move, except for flavor.

I agree, this is the sort of thing that you could be straight up marking EXP for. Its a cool idea but even Discern Realities can get you multiple +1 forwards.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

Come with me
if you want to live.
While I'm wrestling with Inkscape to get Beguiler on a sheet, I wanted to throw out another rough draft of it before I start really getting my hands dirty. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1017317/The%20Beguiler.pdf

I'm also working on two other ideas that might be half-baked but I wanted to get some thoughts on.

Part Relm, part Willy Wonka, part Van Gogh, the idea behind the Visionary is a class that makes things that aren't necessarily machines or inventions. Mechanically they have a broad list of things they can make their art do, and are rewarded for "artistic" behavior by getting to make their art do more things. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1017317/The%20Visionary.pdf

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, the idea behind the Warmage is a straightforward 3.5-style blaster mage that rolls huge messes of d6s all the time, but remains balanced damagewise with the other classes. Influences include Apocalypse Now and Team Fortress 2's Demoman and Soldier classes. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1017317/The%20Warmage.pdf

All the names are obviously playtest names, as much as I'd like to keep "Killed Fiddy Men" there's probably a less jokey name for it.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jun 2, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Androc posted:

Would the +1 forward along with marking xp make the move worth it? The only alternative I can think of is +1 ongoing as long as you're acting within the dictates of the prophecy or something but that could get bonkers fast.

I guess the question is "what are you taking +1 forward or ongoing to?" Are you getting a bonus to fulfill the prophecy? The move is triggered by fulfilling it though. Are you being rewarded for fulfilling it? Why?

Does this move reward you for fulfilling your destiny or does it help you fulfill it? An alternate version might be "you take +1 forward whenever you either act to bring the prophecy to fruition or fight against it," which could bring an entire "destiny does not control us" feel to the class.

Its a neat idea, it just needs tuning.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Androc posted:

At the beginning of each session, work with your GM to come up with a vague and symbolically-worded prophecy. Attempts to fulfill or subvert the prophecy are made at +1. If the attempt is successful, both you and the person who fulfilled or subverted the prophecy mark xp (you only mark 1 if you fulfill your own prophecy). A prophecy can only be fulfilled or subverted once per session.

Yeah NOW we have a move that sets you up for a Compendium Class.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jun 2, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Lemon Curdistan posted:

The fact that the rules are based around how oldschool D&D was played: you're based out of a single region and you go around finding dungeons to raid.

It's a thematic choice, yes, but it's an obstacle to DW replacing D&D fully, for me at least. Toodling around in dungeons and playing oldschool style is all well and good, but my D&D games were about courtly intrigue and extraplanar exploration.

Fortunately, Dark Heart of the Dreamers goes some steps towards fixing this, and Inverse World should give us a suite of tools for handling travel-heavy games so you can basically play LotR in your Dungeon World, with minimal adaptation.

That aside, the 3-18 stats still make no sense, and several of the core classes aren't as good as the others.

I had cruised over Dark Heart earlier not really knowing what it was, it's a really solid $5 spent, thanks for the tip.

For content, I've had one or two players bothered by the wide-open, essentially freeform nature of the game. Apparently they were super used to tactical 3.5 combat and had no idea what to do in a freewheeling melee where conditions were constantly changing and they didn't have a preset combat protocol to follow.

I know it isn't right to judge other players for their preferred playstyle but as they clammed up, trying to get through their turns with as little input as they could, it sort of felt like I was playing with scared, abused animals. :( DW isn't really for players that have difficulty with being spontaneous, I guess.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jun 9, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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My favorite, almost revelatory Defy Danger was saying "OK roll DD Dex to avoid damage." The player's eyes got really big like he was reaching into a giant cookie jar as he replied, "No. Can I roll DD Con? I don't want to avoid his attack, I want to ignore it."

:black101: DUNGEON WORLD :black101:

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Evil Mastermind posted:

Just to expand on this a bit, I think my biggest issue with classes right now is that there's too many of them. I get people like making new classes, but I think we're hitting a saturation point.

I agree that I'd like to see more non-D&D derived things, but apart from Inverse World, Planarch stuff, and Jeremy Friesen's "Take On" stuff, all we seem to be seeing is a 3.x-ish wave of new classes. Personally, I'd like to see more settings, modules, expansions, things like that.

Part of the reason there's a huge flood of custom classes, is that they're not only easy and fun to make, there's a lot of mechanical crunch that hasn't quite been explored yet. To some extent there's a lot of crunch that can't entirely be explored in similar games like Dungeons and Dragons. Inverse World's Captain, for example, is the kind of class that would make the average Pathfinder DM's eyes bug out furiously and mumble angrily about weeaboo anime bullshit.

Is the game hitting a saturation point because of it? Well, yes and no. There are so many classes that it's a little ridiculous, and a GM really needs to prune the initial selection of classes that he allows into a game. There's a lot of kind of uninspired concepts that have decent mechanical backing, and a lot of cool concepts that don't have the numbers to back them up, and some classes unfortunately don't have much of either. Even just between "the PhB," Mage, Priest, Artificer, Templar, and Inverse World, most of which are pretty universally agreed to have a place in Dungeon World, that's 20+ classes. Uncontrolled, things just get ridiculous (especially with multiclassing), but with a list in place at the beginning of the game instead of letting your players go hog wild its pretty manageable.

If I can beg anyone who is going to make future content, please please please check out what already exists, and see if you can't add to what already exists instead of reinventing the wheel every time. There are straight up like, 18 guys whose entire shtick is "they are stealthy and kill dudes," including one of my own classes, and if I had a dollar for every unfinished Warlord conversion I could afford better metaphors. If your class idea truly doesn't exist, seriously, look into your heart and ask yourself truthfully if you can't make this class as a compendium class. Are there really 24 moves worth of totally unique material in your concept? Can you pare your ok-ish mandatory filler moves down into 5-7 solid gold moves that make you dread using Level Up moves because you still can't decide which move you want even though you've been staring at the sheet for a week? If you absolutely cannot, do it, make the hell out of that class. I want a copy of your class. But please, just check out what everyone else is making before you half-build a class. There's so much conceptual overlap right now that its hard to even keep the cool classes straight much less slog through the average ones.

tl;dr - if you're gonna make a new class make sure it's awesome because we got like fifty million already :black101:

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jun 17, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Alright, I have a confession. :ohdear:

I've been running this game for something like four months, and I have no idea how a front works. I've pored over everything I can get my hands on and something is just not clicking.

Can somebody explain this to me like I'm a grandma?

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Mar 4, 2009

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Glazius posted:

A front is a dude or a bunch of dudes that wants a thing. Generally a bad thing. This thing is the front's impending doom. Maybe there's a thieves' guild who wants to take over a town. Maybe there's a rogue magician who's doing crazy experiments that will blanket the earth in demons. Maybe there's a gargoyle lairing near a peasant village that's going to kill a couple villagers and a bunch of sheep. All of these things are fronts.

If the PCs don't do anything, the front's impending doom is going to come to pass. But along the way to that impending doom are grim portents - signs visible to the PCs that something is going wrong. A bunch of toughs shake down a merchant for protection money. A water demon bursts out of a well in the town square and starts wreaking havoc. Three sheep are found dead. That kind of thing.

Introduce grim portents at your leisure, when the PCs stop for downtime or if it would make sense as a consequence when they honk a move.

Fronts also often have custom moves associated with them, either narratively linked to the threat (and available to you as a GM move) or handling something the PCs do to confront them as a special case. These moves are not grim portents in their own right, though they can lead to them. The thieves' guild runs recon on the PCs as a threat. The rogue magician learns the true name of a demon too powerful for him to control. The gargoyle scars a shepherd who was trying to protect the sheep.

Ultimately, a front is there to help with your bookkeeping, and provide a context for the moves you're making against the PCs.

So, lemme try to make an example, to see if I'm doing this 100% right.

If I'm going to run something based fairly closely on Die Hard, Hans Gruber and his men are the main Front.

Their Impending Doom is "Break into the basement vault, take the money, and escape scot-free."

Various grim portents might include "The douchebag yuppie coworker tries negotiating with the terrorists," "the giant german guy Karl shows up with breaking people in half on his mind," and "the power is turned off, unlocking the final lock on the vault." I'm not super sure on the last one, but the general idea is "these are used to break up the monotony when things need to start getting worse," right?

Various custom moves might be "Send a goon to investigate," "Display command over the building's security systems," or "Announce that a hostage will be executed in the next sixty seconds unless a demand is met." They are kind of long move names, but they represent things that can be done fairly frequently in response to the party's actions.

Is this about right or am I off base still?

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Wait a minute.

Follow me on this one, and tell me if I'm on the right track.

In addition to an adventure-planning tool, a Front is also mechanically something like an adventure-sized monster.

Its Impending Doom is like its Instinct.
Its Grim Portents are like some kind of adventure-sized moves to make the player's lives harder, and bring related custom movesets online.
In fact you could just write a BBEG as a Front and not even have him physically show up til the Grim Portent "With a slow clap, BBEG physically shows up" activates. Then in the ensuing conflict, he would be some kind of double monster.

Man this is some next level poo poo, I feel like I just had the mysteries of the pyramids explained to me.

:aaaaa:

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jun 25, 2013

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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I had a player who absolutely hates this game, claiming that he feels like he is being limited by the lack of mechanical detail in his moves. Am I the only person who got that sort of feedback?

I'm certainly not going to make him play DW if its not what he's into, but I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around what he's saying and he isn't being particularly forthcoming about it. For what its worth he's a major fan of Pathfinder and 4e, maybe its some kind of Stockholm syndrome? :confused:

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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I decided to update and sharpen up my old Beguiler class from a few months ago. Some basic rewording, some switching things around, and a new death move because death moves are the new sweet thing to add to your class.

http://www.mediafire.com/?armlrbmnfzd608t

i still don't think this has been peer reviewed, so if somebody wants to run this through the wringer feel free.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Sep 12, 2013

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Mar 4, 2009

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djw175 posted:

Out of curiosity, how would you handle a shapeshifter with Cloak for Two? It doesn't seem to make sense in fiction to me.

Without revising anything, the ally would outright shapeshift as well. Which mostly works, but I'm not sure if I'm entirely satisfied with that. I might mess with the wording on the Shapeshifter on that one.

EscortMission fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Sep 12, 2013

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Mar 4, 2009

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Elderbean posted:

Dungeon World has spoiled me, I don’t think I can use anything else for fantasy romps. I’ve been running games for my shipmates over the course of this deployment and being able pick everything up and play on short notice has been invaluable.

Yeah, when somebody tells me about how game X or game Y is imbalanced or hard to use, I have to bite my lip so people don't think I'm actually an android programmed to say "Use Dungeon World instead chucklehead."

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Overemotional Robot posted:

Hope you don't mind but I went ahead and started typing your class up into playbook format. Here's the download:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/8xw0cxri13yycqb/The_Beguiler.docx


I only changed wording here and there when it made sense to clean up grammar, didn't change any mechanics or add anything.

Oh man this is cool of you! It would've been even cooler if I hadn't been doing the same thing last night, making last minute tweaks to the wording on a few of the moves and coming up with sample names/looks/hairs/etc.

This is the final version of the Beguiler, unless anyone finds any ridiculous flaws in it.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/armlrbmnfzd608t/The_Beguiler.pdf

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Mendrian posted:

Thanks for the advice!

When it comes to lethality, I mean, I imagine a lot of that is in the DM's hands no? Like if a monster has a move like, I don't know, "Impale", that is hypothetically license to kill or maim a character if you have an excuse to use it - but like, you'd have to be kind of a dick to kill somebody with it on the first available hard move, right? Just because you can argue that a move would kill a character doesn't mean that you should?

Getting impaled isn't necessarily a death sentence! Sometimes it's just an excuse to slide up a spear and murder the poor idiot who thought he was safe from your wrath on the other end.

You also don't have to impale people. Impale the environment, stab a scorpion tail through a tree, uproot the thing, and now your players have to deal with a giant scorpion swinging a tree at them. Whatever escalates the situation.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Well start with "Eats Flesh" and then follow naturally from what a zombie would do.

"Your opponents vicious teeth sink into your flesh. You bellow and shove the shuffling corpse back, and while you have an opening now, your blood still runs cold. You can't stop thinking about what your chances of being infected are."

Its not an exact science, Dungeon World is very much a game of "yeah that sounds about right."

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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PerniciousKnid posted:

Does anyone have suggestions for movies/books/graphic novels to help me fill my head with ideas for future GMing?

If somebody in my group hasn't watched Stardust, we all sit down, make popcorn, get beers, and watch it again before anyone makes characters for anything.

Conan the Destroyer comes in at a close second, and I also get a lot of mileage out of Avatar: the Last Airbender.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Tell me that Grim World getting 666 backers at the end of the Kickstarter isn't some sort of death metal omen. :black101:

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Fenarisk posted:

Alright, the Mesmer rough (rough) draft.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/zam340an51h1z5e/Mesmer.doc

As usual lay on the feedback/criticisms.

Man I wish I woulda thought of "Mesmer" as a name for my Beguiler, its just an all-around better name. My fault for not playing Guild Wars I guess!

Just some general critique down the line, since you asked.

The interaction between Mirror Image and Illusionary Servant is sort of difficult to understand, do I make shards with MI or IS? Are IS shards subject to the same rules as MI shards? Illusionary Servant might work better as an advance that automatically bolts onto Mirror Image, something like "when you make a shard, choose one of the following qualities for it, or spend an Illusion to choose three" and then list out the Illusionary Servant qualities. Rolling two INT checks is weird and slows things down. Also, on the topic of shards, enemies technically don't suffer debilities because they don't make rolls. They just become confused and stunned instead of Confused and Stunned if that makes any sense. Same idea, just different wording.

Speaking of shards again, actually, is there anything preventing me from using Shard Crafter to make two shards, and immediately exploding them for 2d8 damage in a blast of splinters made of myself as the most obnoxious, self-centered IED ever invented? Can I make FOUR shards and use myself as a human ladder? Please tell me I can. :getin:

Illusionary Enchantment is a pretty cool idea, but you should consider bumping the classes damage up to 1d6, letting them hit with +INT, or giving the +1d4 for free if you're going to give them a core ability that asks them to be in melee combat. Having Illusionary Enchantment as one of their starting moves tells me "the Mesmer does this all the time and its really simple but effective when they do it." If you want more of a buff-flavor, can they give their Illusionary Weapon to another person? Even better, does Illusionary Enchantment have to be a weapon? It would be cool to basically be a walking illusionary forge, making illusionary tools and weapons and armor all the time because even though they're not real, your magic makes them "real enough for our purposes." Also I know its probably the Guild Wars name but you're missing a great opportunity to use the name "Mind over Melee."

With the advances, I think overall you're straitjacketing yourself into only things that the class does in Guild Wars and its honestly giving off a little bit of an MMO vibe. Spread out your inspirations, have your moves naturally flow from your starting moves! If you want to focus on the Truth thing, look into inspiration with other psychics or seers. If you want to focus on shards you should look into Paizo's Summoner or other horde commander type classes. Maybe an ability that lets your shards to automatically Aid you or let you roll +INT to Hinder others from afar, or lets your shards attack people as if you were the one doing it so you're benefiting from this shard creation thing in ways that aren't "you heal some and thats cool" or "they explode and you aren't freaked out by exploding yourself as a combat tactic". There's a lot of growth potential in this class, its just not Dungeon Worldy enough yet.

But keep Dream Home ok, Dream Home is bangin. I'm so pissed at myself because I didn't think of it for my own class.

Also now I want to put together a Shardmind Mesmer that starts making Shards and exploding them to hit everyone with the shards until everyone is sick of the word "shard."

OK that's all I got. Hopefully its even remotely helpful.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Len posted:

Which do you guys think would work better: the party raiding ruins full of undead and finding the vampire already dead in his crypt with a knife that has a gold beholder on the handle or a living vampire that tries to talk the party into helping him in his power struggle against an evil beholder lich? I'm torn between the two ideas.

What's that, getting to negotiate help from a strange and shadowy ally against a common foe?

Then when the vampire gains a significant advantage after the death tyrant is dead, they get to fight their former ally, who has information on how to hurt them now?

Yes please.

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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So I'm spitballing a very rough outline for a different take on "fast, reckless character who hurts people." I'm trying to cover more of the TF2 scout/street rat/thug angle than the traditionally methodical, self-aware D&D rogue. Weirdly most of the +DEX classes skew very heavily toward professional, precise individuals and I think it'd be cool to have somebody loud who solves his problem entirely by being faster and meaner than his opponents.

Any feedback would be awesome, including "wow this is a big fat waste of time."

The Lance posted:

“The Lance huh, thats a dumb name.”
“Are you familiar with shogi, friend? The Lance is a piece that throws itself into the enemy ranks heedlessly, able to move unlimited spaces forward but unable or maybe unwilling to move backward. Most of them are captured within their first two moves, but only a seasoned opponent can deal with the ones that survive. People like you, you're Lances.”
“Huh. Anyone ever tell you you're boring, old man?”



THE LANCE

1d8 Damage, 6+CON Hit Points

Drive
-Violent Nature – Take glee in hurting somebody regardless of whether they deserve it.
-Brotherly Nature – Prevent somebody weaker than yourself from coming to harm by putting yourself in danger.
-Thirst for Recognition – Be recognized for your actions. Your friends recognition is nice but not enough of what you're after.

Starting Moves
-Eat My Dust - The speed of the average person is nothing compared to yours. When you use your superior agility and reflexes to close the gap between you and an opponent, choose one.
*You easily slide over, under, or through your opponent's cover.
*You get within your opponent's reach, engaging them at Hand instead of Close or Close instead of Reach.
*You may roll Hack and Slash with +DEX instead of +STR.

-Hey I'm Talkin To You - When you taunt or insult an opponent to get his attention, roll +CHA.
10+: You draw his attention away over to you, causing him to ignore whoever had his attention previously. Lets hope this was a good idea.
7-9: You draw his attention away over to you, but that's not the only attention you have. Maybe this wasn't such a good idea.

-Dodge Arrows - As long as you aren't wearing armor, you have a base Armor of 1.

CHOOSE ONE:
-No Regrets - When you do something unexpected, without thinking it through or planning with your allies, take +1 Forward.
-Who The Hell Do You Think I Am? - When you loudly announce your presence to people who do not expect you, you take +1 Forward and +2 Damage Forward to your next aggressive action.

Additional, unsorted Advance moves
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1017317/Dungeon_World/Unsorted%20Lance%20Beta%20Moves.pdf

EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Magic is a wily force that does what it pleases, magus. Its power cannot be contained or tricked, only guided.

A lot of the Mage's strength lies in the subtleties. While causing an illusionary distraction could be opposed to the Tower, I don't see why raising a series of sandstone walls in a desert to act as temporary bastions would go against its principles, even if you plan on abandoning them.

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EscortMission
Mar 4, 2009

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Personally I like setting up Hx for my group and just calling them Bonds. My players chafe at how narrow some of the Bonds are, and become more invested in their interpersonal interactions when they aren't part of the EXP checklist. One EXP one way or another isn't a huge deal in their eyes and it gives them more of an excuse to try new things that they might fail at.

Bonds serve their purpose for a game more focused on dungeon crawling or a couple of one-shots, but Hx seems to work for our group a little better.

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