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Sub accuracy is an objective thing, not an opinion.
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Oct 4, 2015 11:58
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Tae posted:Sub accuracy is an objective thing, not an opinion. Well, I don't speak enough Japanese to make a qualified statement on how accurate a translation is. When I speak of sub quality, I'm referring to things like TV-N'a habit of leaving things untranslated and putting in a huge translator's note, or the readability of the subs (including font choice, typos, sentence flow, etc). If I've ever given the impression that I'm making a statement toward the quality of the actual translation, that is not my intention.
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Oct 4, 2015 12:07
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Unpopular opinion time: I would rather have inaccurate subs that flow well than technically accurate gibberish (ie TVN). You'll be surprised when you hear!
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Oct 4, 2015 14:09
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Poison Mushroom posted:You'll be surprised when you hear! 
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Oct 4, 2015 14:15
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Poison Mushroom posted:Unpopular opinion time: I would rather have inaccurate subs that flow well than technically accurate gibberish (ie TVN). TVN is not technically accurate half the time, it's inaccurate gibberish that's made up on the spot And if you don't care about accurate subs, why care about subs at all? Make your own fanfiction.
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Oct 4, 2015 14:18
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Fanfiction doesn't have a very high special effects budget. 
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Oct 4, 2015 14:28
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Poison Mushroom posted:Unpopular opinion time: I would rather have inaccurate subs that flow well than technically accurate gibberish (ie TVN). How many meters is the captain's length? :bigtran: I've asked this before, but does anyone have the blog/forum post from that one TVN guy saying how leaving things untranslated is more true to the original, and translating certain things is cultural appropriation?
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Oct 4, 2015 15:28
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Speaking of tvn, are any of their old projects actively being redone by anyone? The op is seriously out of date, so that's no help.
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Oct 4, 2015 15:49
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Serious Frolicking posted:Speaking of tvn, are any of their old projects actively being redone by anyone? The op is seriously out of date, so that's no help. I think Magiranger has been resubbed, though I don't remember the name of the group or know how accurate they are having not seen them myself. Over-Time is also currently working on Dekaranger and Shinkenger and MFC has done Goseiger. Not sure if any of their Kamen Rider projects have been/are being redone though. Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Oct 4, 2015 |
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Oct 4, 2015 16:03
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Fooley posted:How many meters is the captain's length? :bigtran: Gimme a minute, it's easy enough to find by giggling Tvn cultural whitewashing
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Oct 4, 2015 16:07
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We use swears in our subs because Kamen Rider is aimed at teens. *Ignores the commercials for toys and candy and literal Happy Meals that air during Kamen Rider*
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Oct 4, 2015 16:12
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Larryb posted:I think Magiranger has been resubbed, though I don't remember the name of the group or know how accurate they are having not seen them myself. Over-Time is also currently working on Dekaranger and Shinkenger and MFC has done Goseiger. Not sure if any of their Kamen Rider projects have been/are being redone though. Here's the Magiranger subs. I think they're alright. Not sure about translation accuracy because I don't know any Japanese but it seems OK. They're certainly leagues better than TVN's at least.
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Oct 4, 2015 16:25
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Waffleman_ posted:We use swears in our subs because Kamen Rider is aimed at teens. *Ignores the commercials for toys and candy and literal Happy Meals that air during Kamen Rider* Yeah, the thing some people don't seem to understand is that despite being able to get away with a bit more than we can due to different censorship standards, both Sentai and Kamen Rider are considered children's shows over in Japan just like Power Rangers is over here. In fact, literally speaking there are actualy very few swear words in Japanese, most of the common ones as I understand it are typically just ruder ways of saying the word "you". Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 4, 2015 |
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Oct 4, 2015 16:26
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Fooley posted:How many meters is the captain's length? :bigtran: reminder: its even better than appropriation, because it's erasure Japanese in subs: The problems with cultural whitewashing Submitted by takenoko on Thu, 03/03/2011 - 11:03 The importance of Japanese in translations for Japanese shows thread So last week some guy was mad at me for some reason in the Gokai 2 release thread. In it, he suggested that the Medals be translated instead of using stuff like Taka and Tora and Batta and stuff. It seemed strange to me, since even if you don't know Japanese, it can't be that confusing to keep track of which Medal goes with which animal. It was suggested that people would learn better by having the translation each time, a reenforcement of the meanings. And that makes sense, but it would seem to me that you'd learn a Japanese word better if you saw the Japanese phrasing. People more than likely know animal names like "hawk, tiger, grasshopper", it's the Japanese that they need practice on. Even if you missed a note, I'm sure you can infer "that's a bird" or "that has tentacles", it must be this animal. There's nothing wrong with saying there's a slight bump in the learning curve that one must overcome. I mean, you're watching a Japanese show with subtitles and not a dub or English remake for a reason, right? Plus it's more fun to leave it in Japanese. Taka Medal, Taka Can. Plus the songs are done based on the Japanese names. What would you have instead for Hawk, Tiger, Grasshopper? Would the song need to be translated next? Hatigra combo? I want to give you tools so that you can enjoy these shows, but I don't want to make the shows something they're not. There are a lot of problems with shoehorning one culture's thing into another's. Something is always lost. And to some extent, this is a sort of censorship of the original culture. A real good example of this is the first book for Harry Potter. In Britain it's called The Philosopher's Stone, referring to the famous thingy that is a philosopher's stone, something that was a thing. You can Google "philosopher's stone" and find references to it that aren't Harry Potter. For America, it was dumbed down to Sorceror's Stone? You Google "sorceror's stone" and only get Harry Potter results. And this sort of thing is done throughout the book; there's probably a list of the changes somewhere. In any case, I'd rather read the original British book and stumble on the quirky differences between our language (and y'know, maybe look up something every once in a while) than read something that was changed because some guy thought kids couldn't handle "philosopher's stone". I mean, do you really want other people filtering the content for you? This is the kind of thing that happens when people take liberties with the original material. They change stuff around and make stuff up. Is this stuff necessarily bad? Not exactly. I watched the Yu-gi-oh dub and enjoyed it. But I'm sure that the questionable content was cut out and certain references to the occult were cut out. Heck, didn't they even redo the animation so there was exposed bosom on the female characters? It's fine to enjoy the end result, but you have to admit that you're watching something removed from the original work. Sort of like watching a theater cut and a director's cut. People are probabaly going to have their preferences Well, we try to preserve the cultural stuff. That's not to say we make things purposefully awkward. I really like gonig back and forth with QC to try to find a good medium ground. I don't want to cut something out entirely because it might challenge the viewers. I want to believe that you guys are smart and that you guys are learning a lot of interesting stuff by watching our subs.
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Oct 4, 2015 16:52
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every time i post that i want to go through and pull select quotes to use as the next thread title but i end up just quoting the whole thing
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Oct 4, 2015 16:53
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Literally The Worst posted:every time i post that i want to go through and pull select quotes to use as the next thread title but i end up just quoting the whole thing I watched the Yu-gi-oh dub and enjoyed it.
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Oct 4, 2015 16:58
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Cliff Racer posted:I watched the Yu-gi-oh dub and enjoyed it. " I mean, you're watching a Japanese show with subtitles and not a dub or English remake for a reason, right?" always sticks out to me as being hilarious because hes the head of a group subtitling shows that dont get western releases and he says it like you're watching this because of the pure nihon and not because its literally the only way to watch it particularly then, when other groups were just starting to step up and redo tvn's poo poo or sub the new shows alongside them
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Oct 4, 2015 17:00
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I love that he works under the assumption that people are watching the shows to learn Japanese, and that leaving a word completely untranslated would somehow help someone learn a language.
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Oct 4, 2015 17:03
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DICKS FOR DINNER posted:I love that he works under the assumption that people are watching the shows to learn Japanese, and that leaving a word completely untranslated would somehow help someone learn a language. Especially when that word has a direct English equivalent most of the time. Though out of curiosity why do we typically refer to the shows as Super Sentai and Kamen Rider rather than Super Squadron/Team and Masked Rider which is what they literally mean. Note, I have no problem with using those terms, I was just wondering why those two get a pass as far as leaving things untranslated goes.
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Oct 4, 2015 17:12
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Larryb posted:Especially when that word has a direct English equivalent most of the time. Though out of curiosity why do we typically refer to the shows as Super Sentai and Kamen Rider rather than Super Squadron/Team and Masked Rider which is what they literally mean. Note, I have no problem with using those terms, I was just wondering why those two get a pass as far as leaving things untranslated goes. Looks cooler.
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Oct 4, 2015 17:17
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Larryb posted:Especially when that word has a direct English equivalent most of the time. Though out of curiosity why do we typically refer to the shows as Super Sentai and Kamen Rider rather than Super Squadron/Team and Masked Rider which is what they literally mean. Note, I have no problem with using those terms, I was just wondering why those two get a pass as far as leaving things untranslated goes. Kamen Rider started using Kamen Rider as the actual series branding with W is part of it, not sure how long Super Sentai has been doing it.
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Oct 4, 2015 17:19
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There's also avoiding getting confused with the Saban adaptation of Black RX.
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Oct 4, 2015 17:22
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i'm like 80% sure that for a minute there people used to translate the old shows as masked rider, too, but it mostly stopped once kamen rider became the brand name edit az is going to bust in and school me and im ok with that BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 4, 2015 |
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Oct 4, 2015 17:37
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Toei used to call Kamen Rider Masked Rider in English but fans generally didn't.
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Oct 4, 2015 17:39
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Literally The Worst posted:i'm like 80% sure that for a minute there people used to translate the old shows as masked rider, too, but it mostly stopped once kamen rider became the brand name The only time I've seen it translated was one sub of Agito that did sub the title in the opening as "Masked Rider Agito", don't remember the group that did it though. Kabuto also refered to its Riders as being part of the Masked Rider system. Is there a particular reason why Toei stopped using it as an official translation from W on or was it just a way of distancing themselves from Saban's version (was that even dubbed and aired in Japan? I know Dragon Knight was).
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Oct 4, 2015 17:45
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What I heard was that Dragon Knight was around the time Decade was, and Toei saw that English speakers were pretty comfortable with the name Kamen Rider, so I guess they figured what the heck.
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Oct 4, 2015 18:00
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They changed it after KRDK came out and used Kamen Rider in English on American television. I don't know if they ever officially said that the two were linked but I guess that they felt that there was no point after that.
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Oct 4, 2015 18:00
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Finished fourze, finale was amazing. Started drive, now up to episode 22. Gou's introduction is such a breath of fresh air compared to ryusei's drawn out deal. Every time I thought gou couldn't be more of a smug ostentatious prick, he amped it up and just went more ridiculous.  I honestly think it's the best secondary rider introduction I've seen out of the four kamen rider shows I've watched.
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Oct 4, 2015 18:13
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I'm relatively new to toku, but I don't need my subs to be pinpoint accurate. There's a slight language barrier that prevents any sub from being 1:1 anyways, so as long as subtitles retain the tone and convey the general thrust of the scene I'm happy.
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Oct 4, 2015 18:49
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I prefer Over-Time's method of translation to TV-N's ...whatever they loving do with sloppy mis-spelled, half-untranslated-photoshopped-letters bullshit.
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Oct 4, 2015 18:54
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I won't lie. I can't trust TVN after I found out how badly they mangled Ultraman Nexus. Their subs on Nexus are just atrocious, completely rear end backwards at times, and actively make no sense given vital important plot points. I have no point of reference for their other subs, but I do know that their version of Kamen Rider Blade was just... I've heard that they completely screwed up the first half of Blade and I'm not sure how exactly, but I do know that while I enjoyed Blade when watching it, I always felt like I was missing something, and NOW I can't remember a drat thing about the show beyond the broad strokes. I only watched the first handful of episodes as well.
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Oct 4, 2015 19:00
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Speaking of Gekiranger last page was there ever a good sub release for Gekiranger?
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Oct 4, 2015 19:01
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I've always been curious myself, what exactly did TVN screw up regarding the first half of Blade and what was it supposed to be like instead? I've seen Blade in its entirety so feel free to go into detail.
Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 4, 2015 |
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Oct 4, 2015 19:03
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Omnicrom posted:Speaking of Gekiranger last page was there ever a good sub release for Gekiranger? nope John McClane posted:I'm relatively new to toku, but I don't need my subs to be pinpoint accurate. There's a slight language barrier that prevents any sub from being 1:1 anyways, so as long as subtitles retain the tone and convey the general thrust of the scene I'm happy. dont watch tvn subs then Burkion posted:I won't lie. I can't trust TVN after I found out how badly they mangled Ultraman Nexus. Their subs on Nexus are just atrocious, completely rear end backwards at times, and actively make no sense given vital important plot points. I have no point of reference for their other subs, but I do know that their version of Kamen Rider Blade was just... man i just posted a whole thing from takenoko saying how translating thigns is cultural whitewashing, that should be a tip off as to how literally every other thing they do is
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Oct 4, 2015 19:11
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O-T is better than TVN, there's no denying that. However there are people in this very thread who say that you'd be better off watching raws than watching TVN for stuff that doesn't have alternate translations available. Stuff like that is simply bullshit. If you never plan on watching this stuff again (and lets be honest here, most people never rewatch a show) then you'd be far better off watching TVN and getting 98% of things translated correctly than watching raw and having to guess on everything.
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Oct 4, 2015 19:26
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Cliff Racer posted:you'd be far better off watching TVN and getting 98% of things translated correctly pretty high estimate there chief
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Oct 4, 2015 19:29
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Cliff Racer posted:there are people in this very thread who say that you'd be better off watching raws than watching TVN for stuff that doesn't have alternate translations available. You can probably get just as much through inference as you can through TVN's mish-mash of word diarrhea. They're super garbo and shouldn't be given even a first thoughs, let alone a second.
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Oct 4, 2015 19:50
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Cliff Racer posted:O-T is better than TVN, there's no denying that. However there are people in this very thread who say that you'd be better off watching raws than watching TVN for stuff that doesn't have alternate translations available. Stuff like that is simply bullshit. If you never plan on watching this stuff again (and lets be honest here, most people never rewatch a show) then you'd be far better off watching TVN and getting 98% of things translated correctly than watching raw and having to guess on everything. Actually I'd say the opposite. The big thing is that TV-N doesn't just leave things untranslated, they mistranslate things in ways which distort plot points or meaning. People have argued about character motivations in a very specific way based off translations which distort the meaning and then get upset when the show doesn't follow through on that. (To be fair that doesn't just happen with TVN. Gaim had that problem too.) If you read something in English, even knowing it is lightly translated, you're far more likely to give something that sounds right the benefit of the doubt.
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Oct 4, 2015 20:06
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Omnicrom posted:Speaking of Gekiranger last page was there ever a good sub release for Gekiranger?  Stop reminding me that the answer to this is a big fat N-O!
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Oct 4, 2015 20:11
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Literally The Worst posted:i'm like 80% sure that for a minute there people used to translate the old shows as masked rider, too, but it mostly stopped once kamen rider became the brand name I don't think anybody did before W, in the sense that nobody but tvn was really touching older shows before W, because toku subbing was basically just tvn back then. A lot of newer subs of older shows are definitely leaning into that distinction though. Larryb posted:Especially when that word has a direct English equivalent most of the time. Though out of curiosity why do we typically refer to the shows as Super Sentai and Kamen Rider rather than Super Squadron/Team and Masked Rider which is what they literally mean. Note, I have no problem with using those terms, I was just wondering why those two get a pass as far as leaving things untranslated goes. Honestly? Heat hates "Super Squad(ron)", so at least on our end that's just not likely to happen. The one-off thematic translations are one thing, but don't really work as a catch-all for the franchise, so we have this. Also, in the case of Gokaiger, translating it really misses the point of how much they use the word Sentai, and how. It's really finnicky in ways Kamen/Masked tends not to be, where you can more safely just go with what it says on the tin and not care. Larryb posted:I think Magiranger has been resubbed, though I don't remember the name of the group or know how accurate they are having not seen them myself. Over-Time is also currently working on Dekaranger and Shinkenger and MFC has done Goseiger. Not sure if any of their Kamen Rider projects have been/are being redone though. The only non-scrub of an older Rider that's moving forward regularly that I know of is Sub-Vent's Ryuki. There was a Faiz resub that was annoying the poo poo out of me for not being careful about use of FortMax's 60fps raws, but was otherwise fine. It isn't moving super fast though. Blade is probably the most targeted series for re-release, but everyone collapses under the weight of Onduru.
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