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About trying to bomb Auschwitz, wasn't the wildly inaccurate method of strategic bombing at the time another factor in deciding whether to attempt to destroy it? The gas chambers were pretty small buildings relative to the rest of the camp, and the only way to ensure hitting them would have been to just wipe out the entire camp, killing up to 100,000 prisoners in the process. And even after all that it was still possible that the gas chamber buildings would still be standing. You run into the same type of problem attempting to bomb the correct rail lines leading into the camp, and those are much easier to rebuild afterwards. And not to mention that by the time this question was being debated in the summer of 1944 Auschwitz had already finished with the great majority of its extermination process. With the Hungarian Jewish population now already exterminated the deportations en masse had ended. Even if everything went perfectly and the gas chambers were blown up without wiping out the prisoner population how many lives would it have really saved in the end? I don't mean to be argumentative but I think these are also important pints to make.
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Apr 1, 2013 20:00
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I would go further and argue that Germany had no chance of winning the war as soon as it set foot on Polish soil, no matter what. The Germans had no way to force the British to surrender and it was a matter of time before the US got involved in the war. The invasion of the Soviet Union 2 years later just assured that the war would end in the complete annihilation of the German state. Seven Hundred Bee, you mentioned that you specifically study a lot about the radical right wing parts of American politics. What are your general feelings on the recent resurgence of right wing groups in the US? Not only the extremist separatists groups but also how mainstream Republicans have continued to shift even further to the right so much that you can see national politicians basically broadcast hate speech and get away with it.
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Apr 1, 2013 22:20
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Whats your opinion on Richard Evans?
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Apr 2, 2013 01:10
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Thats good since I just started reading the first part of his Third Reich Trilogy, which is apparently the definitive narrative account of the Nazis.
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Apr 2, 2013 01:17
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:good luck! after that you should read kershaw's two-part hitler biography. then you can dazzle people at cocktail parties with your knowledge of nazi germany. Oh yeah, that should lead to some intellectually stimulating conversations and back and forth debate. "I'm sorry but I've watched the History Channel for 15 years and its known for a fact that Hitler was a devout devil worshipper behind the scenes. He also had one testicle. Maybe you should open your eyes and not believe everything those liberal professors of yours tell you." (This is not an exaggeration, I was told this during a discussion that originally was about Indiana Jones) Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 01:26
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When were camps like Treblinka and Sobibor discovered and understood by the Allies? Since they were completely dismantled and hidden well in 1943 it had to have been post war.
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Apr 2, 2013 04:25
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Unluckyimmortal posted:Speaking of counterfactuals -- I've always wondered what the plan was in the event of a successful invasion of the USSR. Did the Nazis think that there simply was no other threat? I mean, if the Nazis had eked out a win at Stalingrad in 1942, for example, they might have exhausted the USSR and forced its surrender. At that point, though, Nazi Germany would be in a shambles, Africa would be lost, the strategic bombing would have only accelerated, etc. Even if the Nazis managed to beat the Soviets and negotiate some kind of peace with the remaining Allies, how could they possibly repair their economy or deal with hordes of demobilized soldiers? With hindsight the Germans had absolutely zero chance of winning by the time Stalingrad happened but you bet they had plans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
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Apr 2, 2013 06:39
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What was the deal with Rudolf Hess and his wacky adventure to Scotland?
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Apr 2, 2013 20:12
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 Well there goes the OP for a week.
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Apr 3, 2013 01:42
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For anyone interested in learning more about the Holocaust I very highly recommend the 6 part BBC/PBS documentary Auschwitz: The Nazis and the 'Final Solution'. It goes into great detail exactly why the Holocaust was so unique and devious in history. Its on Netflix instant right now, so go watch it.
Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Apr 3, 2013 |
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Apr 3, 2013 14:56
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While there is truth in Hitler's weird medical habits I believe a lot of the more ridiculous stuff is just apocrypha stories as a lazy way of trying to explain "why" he did what he did.
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Apr 4, 2013 05:00
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brozozo posted:If the July 20 plot succeeded, what did the conspirators plan to do with the country? I know they had a government ready to take over once the coup was complete, but what were their intentions beyond killing Hitler? Desperately beg the Western Allies for a conditional peace. They then would have been told to go gently caress themselves and the war would have gone on. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Apr 4, 2013 |
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Apr 4, 2013 05:39
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That German diplomat who tipped off the leader of the Danish Jewish community was personally involved with several Einsatzgupen massacres in the East to the tune of tens of thousands of killed. He alerted the Danes because his orders to purge Denmark of Jews were vague enough to allow him to just let them all run to Sweden. He did it because he was lazy and didn't want to spend the effort to arrange the shipments to Auschwitz.
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Apr 8, 2013 05:13
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The Soviet Union of 1918-1920 was hardly a burgeoning super power. It's by sheer good fortune that they even lasted at all. I doubt they were taken into account by the Allies as they decided how to end the war. At least directly, of course the allies feared a spread of Communist revolutionary movements across the continent.
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Apr 27, 2013 13:51
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Mans posted:Why are the pretty ones always nazi Well they did literally practice eugenics.
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Apr 27, 2013 15:44
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Actually the Germans intelligence on the size and strength of the Red Army was nearly dead on. The problem was that they assumed that the "whole rotting structure" would collapse well before the deep source of reserves could be mobilized. They also weren't aware of the existence of the t-34 and KV tanks but that wasn't too big of a deal on the strategic level.
Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 23:05 on May 2, 2013 |
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May 2, 2013 23:01
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The ONLY and I mean only alternate scenario that may have resulted in a German victory over the Soviet Union would have been if someone knocked off Stalin during his paranoid self seclusion during the first atrocious days of the war. If that had happened theres a good chance that the USSR would have internally collapsed due to infighting and break away attempts. But noone even tried to kill Stalin during that time because, ironically, his purges worked and noone dared to move against him. In the end though the Western Allies would have eventually defeated Germany either way as the Germans simply didnt have the resources to exploit and protect their newly conquered territories. But we would have seen Generalplan Ost initiated and it would have been unfathomably destructive. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 23:58 on May 4, 2013 |
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May 4, 2013 23:52
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As it should be. Its a shame that the US education system merely brushes over shameful events like Indian removal and the Japanese just ignore their crimes completely.
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May 5, 2013 13:40
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Mans posted:Was there any dicking around during the Victory parade in Moscow? I know in France African soldiers were screwed out of the parade so the white boys who barely fought could march, was there any similar thing in the Soviet case? Considering the alleged Vodka consumption I don't think there was any time for racism.
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May 9, 2013 13:08
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What was the composition of the Weimer Republic's political structure? You had the Presidential election, and then separately the Reichstag elections both in run off voting. Is the Chancellor the representative of the majority party in the Reichstag or is he appointed by the President? I know Hitler was appointed by President Hindenburg but that was after the Reichstag was basically made defunct by the conservative element around HIndenburg so I don't know if that's how it was always done.
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Jun 19, 2013 01:55
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In summary, gently caress Bruning and Van Papen to hell.
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Jun 19, 2013 06:11
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The Japanese could have sunk every single American carrier at Midway without the loss of a single one of their own and within a year they would have still been out numbered. Within 2 years it wouldn't have even been close. All it would have done was delayed allied offensive operations in the Pacific for another 6 months to a year. Which would have seriously sucked but it wouldn't have changed the eventual outcome.
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Jun 29, 2013 04:55
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Was it true that at the very end of the war Göring mulled over jumping into a fighter and going down fighting in the sky? Of course he didn't because he was a coward too fat to fit in the plane but I think I remember hearing something like this.
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Jun 29, 2013 16:49
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The Nazi's literally had Einsatzgruppen units all organized, set, and ready to go for the expected conquest of Palestine in 1942. They were going to begin murdering right away, there is no question about it.
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Jul 1, 2013 20:46
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MothraAttack posted:They were marked as "asocials" and put into concentration camps. You'd find more than a few people in the US who would support that today.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:36
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brozozo posted:Why did Hitler get off so easily after the Beer Hall Putsch? That's a surprisingly complicated question actually. Thanks to Richard J Evans I can finally answer it. A huge problem with the early years of the Wiemar Republic was that it lacked legitimacy in the eyes of many, most importantly in the eyes of senior civil servents. These people, while not revolutionaries themselves, did long for the days of the strong Bismarkian Empire and easily emphasized with those who were proactive enough to try and restore it. Such people, in their minds, put a distinction between the current government in Germany and the Reich itself. So when Hitler and other small time revolutionaries like himself rose up in treasonous revolt they were thought of as misguided patriots, who, in their hearts, loved Germany and had her best interest at heart. Thus they were able to get away with a slap on the wrist, even after literally attempting to instigate a civil war. Now, if Hitler were in Prussia, the bastion of Wiemar democracy and the stronghold of the Social Democratic Party, he would have had a much harder punishment. But the state of Bavaria was much less sympathetic to the Republic. I think that covers the basics. 
Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 04:34
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EvanSchenck posted:It is also worth mentioning that the Weimar Courts tended to pitch softballs at Nazis and other right-wing street fighters, but they threw the book at leftists. The consequences for being a fascist thug were pretty light, but if you were a commie caught tuning up some fascists on the streets, you'd be hurting. Absolutely and I should have mentioned this. Right wing subversion of the Republic was not only condoned but often encouraged. Left wing subversion however was cracked down upon with extreme violence by all facets of the state. Then the right-wing groups, groups that freely admitted their hatred of the Weimar State, were allowed by the state to use violence against the Left with impunity. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 07:09
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GreyjoyBastard posted:You sure about that? Wages of Destruction makes a strong argument that Hitler saw the US as the second greatest threat to MASTER RACE SUPREMACY (and Britain as the only true major inevitable ally of Team Germany). Well Hitler believed that the US was controlled by the Jewish conspiracy to gently caress over Germany so it's all the same to him.
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Jul 13, 2013 17:31
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edit: never mind that wasn't what you asked at all.
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Oct 7, 2013 02:55
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David Irving was literally proved in a court of law to be a lying piece of poo poo. So yeah.
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Oct 12, 2013 21:51
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He shouldn't be allowed in any country. He should be confined to the wreck of the Principality of Sealand. Speaking of revisionism, there are currently people in the D&D photo thread unironically white knighting Stalin and the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Oct 13, 2013 |
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Oct 13, 2013 00:54
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Answers Me posted:Assuming everything went their way, at what point would the Nazis have considered themselves to have achieved all their military aims, and the war to have been won? Was there an endgame in mind, in terms of how far to expand territory etc? Generalplan Ost and then a more "tame" version for the Western occupied territories.
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Oct 14, 2013 07:06
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There was a weird Titanic movie made by the Nazis in 43.
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Oct 16, 2013 04:19
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"Where did the Jews go? They were evacuated to Siberia STOP ASKING QUESTIONS"
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Feb 10, 2014 16:40
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The Nazis had quite a bit of trouble with the Catholic parts of Germany when things like crucifixes were forced to be removed from schools and such. There was actually mass protests that led to the Nazis giving in as strange as that sounds.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:32
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Has Ancient Aliens gone more contemporary and claimed that Hitler was an evil demon alien yet? Because I know it's coming.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:03
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Baron Porkface posted:Is it true that some huge portion of Italian merchant marine was in Allied ports when Italy declared war? Yeah like a full third or something. Italy's war is one long series of comedic errors.
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May 12, 2014 23:46
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Hypation posted:Have to say "Autobahns" but still it's right thing, wrong way. Weren't the autobahns planned during the Wiemar years?
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May 13, 2014 00:18
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Ostkrieg: Hitler's War of Extermination in the East by Stephen Fritz is the best book on detailing Generalplan Ost and the Hunger Plan as it relates to Barbarossa and the war in the East.
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May 16, 2014 23:36
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Is it Hitler's Hangman by any chance?
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May 20, 2014 08:15
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