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Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

TheUnforgiven posted:

This might actually be the place to ask this. I acquired a set of WW2 Dot(?) Camo at my local surplus store. They were sold to me as reproductions because they arent sure if they are authentic or not. I'm not either, the price was pretty good even if it is repros. I'm curious on how about I could check to see if they are authentic or not?
The parka has no stamping that I can tell, but the pants are stamped.





I can take more pictures, higher rez, ect if needed.

Ask in TFR, in the Milsurp thread. They know about all old war stuff, not just guns.

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Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
And also the developers of the Deep Battle doctrine. And also soldiers trained in demolitions, infiltration, and taught how to train partisans. Stalin was colossally idiotic.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
The US didn't start invading from the West and South until 1944. I have not seen a single historian suggest that the war was winnable by Germany in 1944.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Er, I specifically meant the "second front" Stalin was asking for. Not that the US didn't do anything until 1944.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Stalin got his head out of his rear end pretty early on, and let his generals do their jobs, which got the strategic initiative back into the Soviet hands by 1942/43.

As for badly trained/equipped, the Red Army wasn't peasants with pointy sticks like the History Channel makes them out to be.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Mans posted:

Was there any dicking around during the Victory parade in Moscow? I know in France African soldiers were screwed out of the parade so the white boys who barely fought could march, was there any similar thing in the Soviet case?

I read some memoirs where an officer from border guard forces got a request to send some people to the parade, and one of the requirements was a height of 175 cm or higher. He complained that there were no men in his unit that would meet that requirement, since being tall is a disadvantage when you want to be stealthy. He didn't say if the requirement was lifted or if his unit got shafted, though.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Porsche is my favourite, he funneled tons of money and resources into projects that were inherently useless.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
RGASPI is in the process of digitizing Stalin's document library, so if there was such an order, it should turn up in a few years.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
The Red Army was still unpurged, and various forward thinking officers were still around.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

You should try not to think of real life things in video game terms. For one, the Nazis are not rearming any Soviet soldiers and sending them back to fight their own country, because that's a clusterfuck. Who is going to lead them? Who is going to supply them? What weapons are they even going to use? How will the Germans manage them at all? There's a million problems here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army :colbert:

Mr. Sunshine posted:


Do you, like, imagine that the end-goal of Barbarossa was a battle mano-a-mano between Hitler and Mecha-Stalin in the Proletariat Doom Fortress in central Moscow?

http://johnl.org/2009/08/27/stalin-vs-hitler/ :colbert:

But seriously, keep in mind that the Germans considered Slavs just a little above on the racial totem pole than Jews and Gypsies. Why would you ever recruit people that you consider inferior to fight with you? This isn't the middle ages (or early modern, whatever) where you can pay off the enemy mercenary company to fight for you instead.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

meat sweats posted:

Do you think tagging 'I'm not going to contribute to the perpetuation of the "clean Wehrmacht" myth' on the front of regurgitating the very definition of the clean Wehrmacht myth makes it OK?

I wish these threads were better policed to keep the military fetishists out. It's not that you guys are Nazi apologists per se, it's just that you've bought into this general notion of ideologically and morally neutral armed forces that you think you can admire "just" for their honorable fighting of a war, as if wars just happen divorced from context. The war was fought for the Nazi domination of Eurasia. Whether any individual soldier personally killed a Jew (or any of the other victimized groups) doesn't matter -- the entirety of his life from 1939 to 1945 was devoted to one and only one goal, which was establishing the conditions by which the Jews, Slavs, etc. could be killed.

There is a problem when people who have the superior knowledge of tank repair manuals and no moral sense get to take over the discussion of the Nazi period, and the problem is it leads to attitudes like "the 'actual armed forces' are morally blameless because soldiers just follow orders."

In my experience, the "clean Wehrmacht" people haven't read a primary source in their entire life and pollute the "tank repair manual" community as much as they do any other.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Cyrano4747 posted:

So much to comment on so little time. I'll just say that the Wehrmacht was balls deep in every atrocity type you care to name. Also post war justice and trials politics was a lot more complex than so far portrayed.

Also the notion that Russian archives became accessible after 90 is a joke. There was a maybe five yer window where we got some things then it slammed shut.

Circa Putin tha window got bricked over.

Really? Which archives? TsAMO is open, RGASPI, RGVIA, at the very least. Some of them are slowly but surely starting online repositories, even.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
A bunch of the really juicy secret archives are classified as Special Folder, and it takes a shitload of paperwork to declassify a Special Folder. In the late 80s and early 90s people cared less about some old stacks of paper and more about not starving, so a fistful of dollars would buy your way into the deepest and darkest corners.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
I'm pretty sure some people did get shot for not shooting civilians.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Cyrano4747 posted:

Go read Mein Kampf.

This is hard, as he is a fantastically lovely writer.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

gradenko_2000 posted:

Were the SS significantly better than their Heer counterparts throughout the war? I can understand that they would be from 1940 up to say 1943, but by the later years wouldn't they have suffered enough losses without enough training time nor men to maintain their edge?

A few SS divisions were more or less on par with Heer, the rest varied from meh to hilariously awful.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
You could always become an engineer and invent dumb poo poo no one needs, as long as you can justify its value somehow.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Kuiperdolin posted:

There is a considerable amount of Nazi propaganda that still gets parroted today. See also the Bismark, Blitzkrieg, the Versailles Diktat etc.

Basically anything about the Tiger tank, too. For some reason, the decent designs are ignored and everyone gushes about how SS-Sturmbahnfuhrer whoever destroyed 500 Pershings in a single evening.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
My favourite overglorified Tiger commander was probably Whittmann, who destroyed a bunch of Stuarts and artillery observers and then got blown up for running out in the middle of a field like an idiot. Yes, this is a man whose achievements we should all celebrate.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Last Buffalo posted:

How much if Blitzkrieg a myth? I haven't read that opinion much, I'd be interested in hearing it broken down.

My understanding is that blitzkrieg-like strategy works well against smaller targets, but is at a great disadvantage when fighting others with significant reserves, is that not true?

The myth is that the nazis (specifically Guderian) came up with the invincible strategy of using high speed combined arms formations to swiftly penetrate enemy territory, bypassing pockets of resistance, even though military thinkers have been talking about that sort of thing for ages (for instance, Tukhachevskiy and Deep Battle). Also, German contemporary sources never mentioned the word "blitzkrieg". It was mostly used as an excuse by Allied commanders. We couldn't do anything, they used Blitzkrieg on us!

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Omi-Polari posted:

I'm curious whether a similar process occurred in the Soviet bloc.

While the West had German generals to write the history of the Eastern Front for them, the Soviets really didn't have anyone. There is a lot of pointing out that the Allies promised a second front and didn't deliver until nobody but the most steadfast fanatics believed in German victory, really basic factual information (major offensives, who went where, meeting at Elbe), the begrudging admission that the Sherman was a good tank too (not as good as the T-34 or IS-2, of course), and the obligatory mention that the entire Western world shat their pants when they saw an IS-3 and scrambled around to find a countermeasure to it ASAP.

OctaviusBeaver posted:

You don't spend years and years dumping your defense budget into a giant wall because you are preparing to go on the attack.

Actually, the Polish war plan with Germany included a counteroffensive. But yes, the Polish dream of fighting everyone and retaking all "their" territories would have never panned out. Although they should really have gotten Galitsia back, I think.

moths posted:

If you're not a tank nerd, sloped armor conveys has huge advantages: There's both some force deflection of impacting shells, and you 'cheat' extra thickness since incoming rounds must traverse the not-shortest path to breach the armor. (Think of crossing a street directly (regular armor) vs crossing the same street at a weird 45 degree angle.) With sloped armor you get more protection out of your armor, which is better design all the way down since it weighs less and puts less stress on other design elements.

I like the German metaphor.



If you cut diagonally, your sausage slice will be longer!

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Also had an abysmal high explosive shell, a nearly blind gunner, and a hilarious front to side armour ratio. Other than that, it was good.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Kopijeger posted:

What, if anything, did they say about their naval power, strategic bombing capability, the massive industrial capacity of the United States and the atomic bomb? And when did the "Western World" ever see an IS-3 in action, considering that it was apparently only used in Manchuria?

Haven't read anything on naval power and bombing. The IS-3 was seen in the parade, I don't think there were any used in Manchuria.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Cyrano4747 posted:

*shrug* How did they manage to encircle the Kiev and Minks pockets, to name just two of the larger ones?

Leningrad failed for a number of reasons, the primary one being that they never quite cut it off. The bodies of water were godsends for the Russians, as the Germans could never secure them and they allowed a trickle of supplies in throughout the siege, whether by boat or over the ice in the winter. If anything a mass encirclement of Moscow would have been far more effective as Moscow didn't have the luxury of being near water.

It's also a little problematic to blame Germans for not applying the failures of Leningrad to the drive on Moscow, since the two were happening roughly in tandem.

There was also a pipe built underwater to deliver fuel to the besieged city year-round, so that there was no pause when the ice was too thick to boat through, but too thin to drive over.

Edit: as for Moscow, I read that the plan was to blow up a bunch of dams and let the city flood, which would impede its defenders quite a bit and neutralize the subway network as a bomb shelter.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
And here I thought Cooper, Rezun, and Kuptsov were a bit loony, but this guy took it to a whole new level.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
I am sure that Ferdinand Porsche's works were influenced by a large amount of some manner of substance or substances.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Kanine posted:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but seriously why does North Korea still exist? At least why is it allowed to continue existing in it's current state?

Invasions are expensive and sending them some food once in a while is cheaper than trying to unfuck the country. Plus an unfucked North Korea is probably just going to be reunified with the South, and China isn't going to be super happy about bordering a US ally.

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Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Nintendo Kid posted:

No, not really. Please bear in mind that current estimates is that the North Koreans could only reliably hit the outer northern suburbs of Seoul, and then a bunch of mostly not that populated farmland across from the rest of the DMZ. Like I said, it's akin to the Nazi wunderwaffe in terms of effectiveness.

The military threat is greatly overplayed and becomes more so by the year since the Soviets stopped handing out all the free support they could ask for in the 80s, while the economic costs of it finally going under keep getting way more important.

There is a Russian study on ammunition storage I need to find, but the jist of it is that even 30 year old shells don't work quite as well as they should, and the downright antique North Korean ammunition is probably at way under the projected maximum range. That is if the batteries will even fire.

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