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The communist party was also under strict orders from Moscow to not do anything. Stalin didn't like the idea of left wing movements starting up things he didn't plan. His actions in Germany and during the Spanish Civil War were amazingly good at putting down the opposition against fascism. :cryingtrotsky: How did the military forces spread around the remaining nazi footholds heard about the surrender and how did they buy it? Wouldn't they be used to constant propaganda? Some units were stuck in the alps, in Poland or in Denmark. The fact that they surrendered in at most two days after the surrender actually shows just how "eager" the German troops wanted to fight until the end. As soon as the bell rang they immediately surrendered, ignoring the fanatics of course.
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Apr 1, 2013 18:42
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Tojai posted:Can someone expand more on the bolded? I've heard the Holocaust is unique in terms of the industrialization of the process and also possibly in terms of scale, but are there other unique features as well? It was an industrialized genocide. Factories, infra-structure, administration and bureaucracy was created to enable the efficient process of the Jewish genocide. This wasn't a typical genocide of moving entire populations out of their homes, murdering the majority of them in a great movement of masses , blind raids into towns to murder the populations or the forced impoverishment of a population and deprivation of autonomy until they die out.
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Apr 3, 2013 10:54
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BigDave posted:This might be a little off topic, but I've always been curious about the British Fascist movement, the Black Shirts, BUF, Oswald Mosley and all that. How much influence did they every really have? Did they have any kind of real support? What was up with the Daily Mail's headline "Hurrah for the Blackshirts"? What the hell was with Edward VIII, did he really have that much affection for the Nazis? Although France and England maintained stable governments because of their victory in WW1 and had a few of the semi-functional democratic governments at the time, the rise of fascism inspired the jackboots in these countries too. One can say that these democratic institutions, coupled with the lack of "national loss" felt in the rest of Europe, might've helped to quell the right wing masses from ever reaching power with fascist groups. This is not the entire truth though. Even though modern day american liberals love to talk about peace, love and showing the other cheek as the only way to do any sort of politics i doubt Mosley wouldn't be kicked out of politics if the british fascists didn't suffer the public rear end kick they received during the battle of cable street or if numerous French left wing parties didn't unite while "non-affiliated" leftists kicked the french jackboots in the streets too. It's sort of ironic how one of the most important ways to eliminate fascism in these countries was by doing what so many people said the German communists shouldn't have done in Germany. Would the world be different if the KDP and other leftists were more pro-active? To be fair, 1919 must've been a terrible scar for German leftists, so it's understandable their more "conservative" approaches during the late 20's and early 30's But yes, they did have some support, they were growing in popularity but were cut short by efficient street action. Edward was a fervorous anti-communist and didn't want Britain to be involved in another world war, so he promoted politics of appeasement and support of Nazism against the Soviet Union. He didn't send them any war plans or anything of the sort during the war per-se, he was just supportive of Hitler before the invasion of Poland. In short: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7mRG88KPbA Amyclas posted:It's pretty amazing that the regime was able to field such a large war machine in spite of the arbitrary nature of their economy. Plus, it's easier to do it when any dissent is sent to the camps, your labor force is composed of slaves and you survive on loot obtained like a 20th century equivalent of a 30 years war mercenary.
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Apr 4, 2013 03:24
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Hogge Wild posted:Might be. I think that Hitler would have totally been a E/N poster and a Pet Islander. And I've been thinking about others also. If ancient philosphers had had internet, they would probably have just wasted their time on procrastination instead doing anything productive. Napoleon would just have played Total War and Paradox games. Renaissance masters would just have photoshopped art before internet. Greek philosophers would turn FYAD into their home.
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Apr 11, 2013 14:34
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DasReich posted:Honestly, it's a wonder the Weimar Republic didn't collapse and Germany revert to pre-unification states, each with its own standing army and government, especially since they could say, "Well, the Grand Duchy of Baden didn't sign any treaty, so gently caress off!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Alsace-Lorraine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig
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Apr 26, 2013 22:41
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Gromit posted:I don't have anything to add to the discussion, knowing nothing about Nazi Germany, but thought someone might like to see a photo of my grandfather who fought for them in the war. That is to say, it doesn't mean he was a Nazi himself, but was German. Mind you, for all I know he WAS a Nazi. I know next to nothing about him and have lost all contact with my German relatives since my parents died. Why are the pretty ones always nazi 
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Apr 27, 2013 15:33
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MN-Ghost posted:I have a question. Why did Hitler break the non-aggression pact with Russia and invade them before securing the western front by forcing Britain into surrender? I was taught that being forced to fight on two front between France and Russia was one of the biggest reason Germany lost WWI. So given that Hitler should have already learned this lesson, this always seemed to me to be a monumentally dumb move. In Hitler's mind, they either invaded under-strength, unprepared and unorganized in 1941 or they waited until 1942\3 when they were in not much better conditions against a fully re-organized Red Army. Had Germany invaded in the summer of 1942 most fortifications of the Ukraine and Belarus would've been prepared and the T-34 would've been deployed in quite decent numbers. While the idea of the fascists being stomped as soon as they dared to invade the Soviet Union is great, Hitler didn't really think that way. It was either attack in 1941 while the purges' effects were still being felt or never.
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May 2, 2013 17:05
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Sunshine89 posted:At that time too, the Red Army was in the midst of re-organizing and re-arming. Much of the officer corps, including three of five Marshals had been purged, much of the air force consisted of biplanes, and there wasn't much of a navy. If Stalin had his way, he would have completely rebuilt the Army and Air Force, and build a navy, including an insane sixteen battleships from scratch in the early 1940s. Remember that Stalin ordered a lot of veterans from the Spanish civil war to be executed. He also executed shitloads of officers and soldiers after World War 2. Stalin was one of the biggest idiots in the history of mankind and the fact that the Soviet Union managed to survive through his regime is nothing short of amazing.
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May 2, 2013 21:16
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PittTheElder posted:Stalin was totally an idiot, but it's not exactly miraculous that they managed to beat Nazi Germany. The Germans had just about everything go exactly as well as it could have for them, and they still weren't that close to winning. Well, i was mostly talking about the overall government, not only talking about Stalin exclusively during World War II. Still, Stalin's eagerness to starve the Ukrainians could've been used as a massive kick in the balls had the Nazis any brain in their heads and the stubbornness with which he refused to accept the information of an imminent German invasion could've save countless lives. And in the end he took all the loving credit. Chuikov? Rossokovsky? Zukov or Konev? The night witches? That kickass sniper dude of Stalingrad? No one knows them unless they study the war. Stalin is still considered a hero all over the world by some people. At least we got a kickass war-cry thanks to him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAWktuDM8XQ
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May 3, 2013 23:00
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Devour posted:No it's not a joke. Without the U.S. in the Europeon theatre, it was basically Britain & the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany and its allies. Again, Britain did not have the resources nor the manpower to invade Nazi-occupied france/the Atlantic wall without the support of the U.S. militarily or economically. Meanwhile, Nazi Germany has already conquered Europe & North Africa, effectively taking control of the resources/raw minerals in these occupied territories. You really need to go back to the history books and re-read the whole 39-45 period because you really didn't seem to read the period that well. For content, what was the position of Sweden during the war? It's interesting how the managed their neutrality even though they were pressure on all sides to act on their behalf. The same question can be asked about Turkey.
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May 5, 2013 07:15
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I'm not even getting into the specifics of how badly trained/equipped the Red Army was, or how stupid Stalin was with his generals.
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Was there any dicking around during the Victory parade in Moscow? I know in France African soldiers were screwed out of the parade so the white boys who barely fought could march, was there any similar thing in the Soviet case?
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May 9, 2013 08:59
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Doctor Malaver posted:I was joking and being a little provocative but I think the question is interesting - would any of the experts care and dare to list a few positive traits that at least some of these men probably had? How do you become a key XX century figure without any? I don't think it will turn anyone pro-nazi. A lot of them died fiery painful deaths thanks to the Allied might, starved to death in Siberia, lynched, beaten or hanged during the final years of the war and the years afterwards and they got such a beatdown that their country was thorn in two. They were really good at dying and it's a shame so many of them didn't exploit this positive trait to it's fullest.
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Jun 26, 2013 16:07
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