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Vaguely conciliatory is the right description. You want to come in here and question everyone else's motives and question their honesty, and then weasel out of actually taking responsibility for it. You want good will, can start by apologizing for calling me a liar and insincere. Until then, go gently caress yourself.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:36
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Vaguely conciliatory is the right description. You want to come in here and question everyone else's motives and question their honesty, and then weasel out of actually taking responsibility for it. You want good will, can start by apologizing for calling me a liar and insincere. Until then, go gently caress yourself. Okay, I’m game. I’m sorry I called you a liar and insincere. It doesn’t really look good on me, does it, after all the talking I did about how RPGnet is so superior for not letting insult people, to say a thing like that.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:41
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Jesus Christ you can't even apologize without coming off like a passive-aggressive jerk.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:44
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Rand Brittain posted:Okay, I’m game. I’m sorry I called you a liar and insincere. It doesn’t really look good on me, does it, after all the talking I did about how RPGnet is so superior for not letting insult people, to say a thing like that. So what you're saying is that you're literally incapable of controlling yourself without the threat of moderation hanging over your head?
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Feb 11, 2018 21:46
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Rand Brittain posted:Okay, I’m game. I’m sorry I called you a liar and insincere. It doesn’t really look good on me, does it, after all the talking I did about how RPGnet is so superior for not letting insult people, to say a thing like that. Were you born this much of a dense shithead or did you take lessons?
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Feb 11, 2018 21:48
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Rand Brittain posted:Okay, I’m game. I’m sorry I called you a liar and insincere. It doesn’t really look good on me, does it, after all the talking I did about how RPGnet is so superior for not letting insult people, to say a thing like that. You know how sometimes, when you say something, you shouldn't continue to talk after that and make yourself come off as an insincere rear end in a top hat by undercutting everything you just said? Actually, you probably don't, so: this was one of those times.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:54
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Anyone else remember that time when Rand Brittain decided he was going to go to bat for Holden when Holden was claiming WoD: Gypsies was 100% definitely not racist? Good times.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:56
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Lemon-Lime posted:Anyone else remember that time when Rand Brittain decided he was going to go to bat for Holden when Holden was claiming WoD: Gypsies was 100% definitely not racist? Good times. No, because that didn’t happen.
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Feb 11, 2018 22:00
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Rand Brittain posted:No, because that didn’t happen. Sorry, it might have been a different lovely ex/current RPG.net mod whose racism you felt the need to defend, you kind of all blend together. I'd go dig for receipts but I don't particularly fancy wading through human refuse right now.
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Feb 11, 2018 22:04
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Dawgstar posted:Eh, I wouldn't want to see you banned at the Big Purple, Kai. At the least I want to see how Morgrave turns out. I'll never stop being weirded out by the idea that there are actually people following this game. Makes me even more embarrassed by my lovely posting lately.
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Feb 11, 2018 22:35
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Hey folks! I was planning to reboot this thread today and I'd appreciate it if you could drop the RPGnet argument before then, thanks.
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Feb 12, 2018 01:20
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The rpg net mods sent in the tanks to crush the exalted uprising but don't forget they lynch pathfinder fans here.
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Feb 12, 2018 01:22
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Der Waffle Mous posted:The rpg net mods sent in the tanks to crush the exalted uprising but don't forget they lynch pathfinder fans here. 
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Feb 12, 2018 02:15
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The punchline is you could probably have flipped your PHB on the secondhand market and gotten enough scratch to buy a copy of EX2 and had money left over.
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Feb 12, 2018 02:20
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i too have many strong opinions about role playing games and.. uh... industry.
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Feb 12, 2018 02:58
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I for one like Exalted 3 and have no idea what the RPGnet drama around it was. I am interested in something about its production though - there was a lot of hay made about its layout being special and unique, and I have no idea what that ended up being/not being. Anyone know what was up with Ex3 layout hype?
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Feb 12, 2018 04:50
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Joe Slowboat posted:I am interested in something about its production though - there was a lot of hay made about its layout being special and unique, and I have no idea what that ended up being/not being. People at OPP who never noticed that Eclipse Phase and D&D 5e both set a much higher bar for "excellent layout" than they've ever managed, and also trying to desperately justify the huge amounts of time they spent on a layout that's bog standard for RPGs these days.
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Feb 12, 2018 05:09
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So I read the article linked a while ago with the Asmodee interview about counterfeiting. It was really surprising, I assumed that the hobby I like wouldn't have the volume or price conditions that would lead to counterfeiting. But the way they described it makes sense, because they can probe the market preemptively through Amazon marketplace and do some easy market research and minimize their own risk. Pretty clever. I also read the article about pricing. https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/39126/icv2-interview-asmodee-execs-new-distribution-policies It was pretty interesting. I deal with pricing analysis in my day job (very different industry), but the messages there make sense. It seems the strategy is that they want their games being sold primarily through the independent game store channel. The objective seems to be to increase the store margins. With the flood of games being released each year, it makes sense that they'd want to make sure that their products have an edge to get on a retailer's shelves.
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Feb 12, 2018 05:40
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Kai Tave posted:The punchline is you could probably have flipped your PHB on the secondhand market and gotten enough scratch to buy a copy of EX2 and had money left over. When that promotion ran D&D 3.5 had been out a bit and was still in print. People actually bought used copies of the PHB for $15-20 and then traded them for Exalted 2E, which was $40.
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Feb 12, 2018 06:47
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:When that promotion ran D&D 3.5 had been out a bit and was still in print. People actually bought used copies of the PHB for $15-20 and then traded them for Exalted 2E, which was $40. Yeah, I wasn't sure precisely when the prices started to rise so it could have come later on. I remember when I was living in Portland I'd see secondhand PHBs going for $50-60 at some stores.
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Feb 12, 2018 06:52
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Kai Tave posted:Yeah, I wasn't sure precisely when the prices started to rise so it could have come later on. I remember when I was living in Portland I'd see secondhand PHBs going for $50-60 at some stores. Wait, 3E stuff us actually worth money? Maybe I need to liquidate my collection, because gently caress playing that game again.
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Feb 12, 2018 07:03
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Ettin posted:Hey folks! I was planning to reboot this thread today and I'd appreciate it if you could drop the RPGnet argument before then, thanks.
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Feb 12, 2018 08:34
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Roadie posted:People at OPP who never noticed that Eclipse Phase and D&D 5e both set a much higher bar for "excellent layout" than they've ever managed, and also trying to desperately justify the huge amounts of time they spent on a layout that's bog standard for RPGs these days. I assume “layout” here is purely visual, because the information organization of 5e PHB is a mess.
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Feb 12, 2018 13:31
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Joe Slowboat posted:I for one like Exalted 3 and have no idea what the RPGnet drama around it was. I assume they wanted it to be super-nice, so they spent more money than usual and gave it to someone they don't usually use who won a lot of awards for nice layout and told them to make it super-nice. Unfortunately, this did not work, partly because the production debacles dragged things out so long that Cabardo couldn't devote the block of time to it that she'd probably been hoping for (because freelancers have to share their time between multiple projects), and party because spending more money is not sufficient on its own to revolutionize RPG layout.
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Feb 12, 2018 14:07
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rkajdi posted:Wait, 3E stuff us actually worth money? Maybe I need to liquidate my collection, because gently caress playing that game again. They were only worth that much during the transition to 4th edition. Pathfinder was still in beta or whatever they called it and grogs were scrambling to get the main 3.5 books.
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Feb 12, 2018 15:37
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Some 3.5 books are worth money, namely later / low-print. Core books are also decent sellers, though you're probably not going to necessarily get MSRP. 3.5 PHB is definitely worth more than Exalted 2e, the demand has remained fairly constant. 3.0 ain't worth a thing, though. I only got anything for it because I had the CD and sample adventure intact.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:26
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No game deader than 3 point nothin D&D.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:02
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Yeah, 3.5 is dead enough with Pathfinder, 4E, and 5E picking its bones in various ways. 3.0 is just worse 3.5, so its disco levels of dead.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:25
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Subjunctive posted:I assume “layout” here is purely visual, because the information organization of 5e PHB is a mess. Yes. Well, I mean, it's still got Ex3 beaten in organization, too (just compare the combat sections), but the nitty gritty of how the text is laid out, layering and position of art, etc is way, way better than any of Ex3's bog standard RPG layout "drop in rectangular art pieces that are sometimes full bleed" stuff. A simple example is page 38-39 of the 5e PHB, where the text, the art, the sidebar, and the quote are all laid out excellently, and you can tell they carefully tweaked the art and text on page 39 to work perfectly with the left-hand column (look at how "They live much longer..." breaks on "live" instead of "much") and even to mesh perfectly with the chapter title text next to the page number. Compare to page 40 of Ex3, where they didn't even make all the text flow smoothly with the art it's trying to haphazardly wrap around, or page 122 or page 126, where there's just a rectangular art box dropped in at the top or bottom of a page without even being actually full bleed (but part-bleed enough to actually just be more noticeably off).
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Feb 12, 2018 18:29
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Roadie posted:A simple example is page 38-39 of the 5e PHB, where the text, the art, the sidebar, and the quote are all laid out excellently, and you can tell they carefully tweaked the art and text on page 39 to work perfectly with the left-hand column (look at how "They live much longer..." breaks on "live" instead of "much") and even to mesh perfectly with the chapter title text next to the page number. Yeah, the visual designers were much more detail-oriented than the game designers.
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Feb 12, 2018 21:26
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Some 3.5 books are worth money, namely later / low-print. Core books are also decent sellers, though you're probably not going to necessarily get MSRP. 3.5 PHB is definitely worth more than Exalted 2e, the demand has remained fairly constant. It's worth noting that right around when 4e and the "graduate your game" thing from Exalted came out, 3.5 corebooks were in short supply--and since Graduate Your Game required the retailer to physically destroy the 3.5 corebooks to send to WW to get reimbursed...
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Feb 14, 2018 20:48
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White Wolf runs a 3.5 scalping ring
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Feb 14, 2018 21:30
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White Wolf is two kids in a trenchcoat trying to get into an Underworld screening.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:37
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Haystack posted:White Wolf is two kids in a trenchcoat trying to get into an Underworld screening.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:51
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White Wolf used to be a successful business. Now, Onyx Path doesn't even own the rights to the World of Darkness license and is on the life support of endless Kickstarter campaigns.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:25
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Sampatrick posted:White Wolf used to be a successful business. Now, Onyx Path doesn't even own the rights to the World of Darkness license and is on the life support of endless Kickstarter campaigns. I'd quibble with characterizing the Kickstarter model as "life support" given that Onyx Path's release schedule has been far more prolific and robust than, say, D&D 5E. These days operating via crowdfunding is just another business model, and honestly a more sensible one when it comes to a niche hobby like tabletop RPGs.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:30
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Kai Tave posted:I'd quibble with characterizing the Kickstarter model as "life support" given that Onyx Path's release schedule has been far more prolific and robust than, say, D&D 5E. These days operating via crowdfunding is just another business model, and honestly a more sensible one when it comes to a niche hobby like tabletop RPGs. I don't know that I would use D&D 5e as a good comparison - it has had quite a few supplements and adventures at this point and has had an absolutely massive volume of sale compared to pretty much every other RPG out there right now. My issue with the Kickstarter business model is that it relies very heavily on people who were not Kickstarter backers wanting to purchase the product after it has been released, and when a large number of the Kickstarter products are 20th anniversary editions whose market is primarily composed of those people who would support the Kickstarter it makes for a difficult environment to make a profit. That's without getting into the issues with Onyx Path competing against itself with World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness or Onyx Path not doing any advertising. I have no doubt that Onyx Path can continue to kickstart new products for years to come - my doubt mostly comes down to if they can actually run a profitable business while relying on Kickstarters as their primary sales.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:01
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I guess they'll be the test case to see if you can. It does make me sad that they don't have traditional distribution to game stores, and while I understand that business decision, it makes it difficult to grow the playerbase.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:04
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Please, do point to the RPG company that is running on a strong profit margin.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:04
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Mors Rattus posted:Please, do point to the RPG company that is running on a strong profit margin. The technically correct answer is Wizards of the Coast even if it ignores a lot of things. The more realistic answer is that if you're not producing D&D you shouldn't be in the RPG industry unless you're a wizard and have somehow managed to make World of Darkness popular once more.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:06
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