|
Winson_Paine posted:Why is it harsh, why do you find this unreasonable? We are going to make a good poster out of you yet. I actually just arrived at work, if you would like me to, I will be glad to elaborate when my lunch break hits.
|
#
¿
Aug 9, 2013 22:08
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
Winson_Paine posted:Why is it harsh, why do you find this unreasonable? We are going to make a good poster out of you yet. A lot of the disagreement was me taking a much more...involved definition of 'association'. I was looking at it from a "who actually created the sword-rape content and who is just doing layout work" whereas the Inverse World folks were using a much more general "he worked on a thing that we don't like". From my end of things, I see it as harsh that a guy who did not write one single word of Oldest Cruelest Sword is being judged by said content. However, if the the goal is "I want as many degrees of separation between that project and ours" then it's perfectly reasonable from that context. I understand that consequences exist, but the way I saw it "you no longer get to write a stretch goal that X number of backers were to receive" seemed disproportionate to the act of "did layout". Were I in charge of inverse World, I probably would have gone with including a small disclaimer that Inverse World and all authors and contributors thereof are not affiliated with and do not support Misery Index et all, and perhaps refraining from working with that layout guy in the future.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 9, 2013 23:12
|
|
|
I guess the one distinction I've been drawing that's been the main subject of discussion is "author" vs "layout artist". While I do wholeheartedly agree that if you accept an offer to work on a project you're giving some manner of stamp of approval on it. However I've been plotting the culpability for that on a sliding scale, from 'lead author' to 'head artist' to 'layout guy' to 'lawyer on retainer who helped you with the copyright notice' all the way down to 'sandwich shop worker who you let look at a draft cause he asked about it' I personally see "did layout work" as a much looser involvement than a lot of other jobs in getting the finished product together, at least in terms of the content (rather than presentation, the layout guy is very much involved in presentation). That said, I don't know how much a typical layout guy actually has to do with the internal content, so I may be way off on that.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 10, 2013 01:02
|
|
|
moths posted:I saw this in the Reaper thread and maybe it could use some discussion over here. Stretch goals are tricky no matter how they're done. Look at something like Fate Core; super low initial goal (which they hit in, what, 2 hours tops?) with a campaign designed around adding more and more and more content. Then you look at something like Project Eternity (not Trad Games, I know) where the last couple stretch goals were really iffy if there's be enough funding for them. And then there's lots of projects that barely squeak past the initial funding goal, regardless of the posted stretch goals. It really comes down to the individual project; do you want to only promise a bare bones thing and make it fancier later? Or ask for a larger funding goal that may not be reached at all? I personally prefer projects that go with the former; I'd rather have a less fancy thing than see a cool project go unfunded.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2013 16:33
|
|
|
Something I just stumbled upon; the official Kickstarter FAQ makes mention of stretch goals (though not by that name):Kickstarter FAQ posted:What happens when a project is overfunded? Emphasis mine.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
Mikan posted:That "this is a hobby and you should do it for the love of the game" bullshit is toxic and awful. Folks deserve to get paid for their work, and if people feel it's worth shelling out money then awesome. Well, there's a difference between "Here's a 50 page setting guide" and "here's a front-and-back character sheet I slapped together in Word '98"
|
|
#
¿
Oct 8, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
For small amateur stuff (like my aforementioned "here's a character sheet you can fill in"), I think the best way to handle it is PWYW. Either a formalized Pay What You Want payment option or just a personal blog with a "Like my stuff? Here's my donate link" thing.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 8, 2013 20:51
|
|
|
Rulebook Heavily posted:I got a bunch of anonymous hate and abuse for selling a 64-page full art supplement with a color cover, internal hyperlinking table of contents and index, a share-alike creative commons license with no watermarking in the pdf and an upcoming PoD version for 7.50$. Most wanted it cheaper. A few said I was a terrible person for not simply giving it away to everyone for free and asking for any money at all. You can see it has an award for being a bestseller on its site, and it still hasn't made its cost back in sales. A post made by Fred Hicks even inspired me to speak out about it. (And all credit due to Hicks for taking a stance.) When Mounted Combat was released, my kneejerk reaction was "man...$7.50 is kinda a lot for something so small" but then I bought in and saw how much work had gone into it, it was totally worth the $7.50 and more besides. With the advent of places like DriveThru, where anyone with an account can start selling stuff and anyone with Microsoft Word can make said stuff, I think the problem is half "gamer entitlement" and half "deluge of half baked poo poo". I compare it to Steam Greenlight, where anyone can toss up their Indie game project and try to get it approved to be sold on Steam. Many of the projects are utter crap, thrown together in a couple hours in GameMaker to try to make a quick buck. I think the current TradGames environment is similar in several ways. Things like Kickstarter, DriveThru and Print-on-Demand have made it easier than ever for someone to create and self-publish and sell a game. However, that leads to a whole lot of projects that just don't have huge art, QA, playtesting, and marketing funds behind them that companies like GW, FFG, and Wizards can utilize. Someone sees "64 pages, PDF, $7.50" without it being from a big name publisher or big-name game (although Dungeon World becoming a big name is happening more and more) sets off knee-jerk reactions from some people. I think in a couple more years when more indie and small press projects start getting more attention, the trend will decline, but for now we're stuck in a world where if it isn't from one of the bigger names, people want it for peanuts.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2014 06:27
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:The only difference between this and the RPG market of ten or even five years ago is simply that it's easier for people to self-publish, as you point out, not a matter of quality. "Deluge of half-baked poo poo" can easily describe plenty of games put out by ostensibly "professional" RPG publishers. Catalyst's latest edition of Shadowrun is rife with atrocious editing and rules that I doubt were even read by playtesters let alone actually playtested, White Wolf has a rich history of producing games that turn into complete messes, FFG is infamous for lousy editing, Rifts is Rifts, etc. I didn't mean to come across as making a sweeping generalization on the quality of small/indie press. My prime point is that indie stuff that's poo poo tends to look like poo poo at first glance. A poorly formatted document. A no-art block of 20 pages of text that says nothing. Stuff like that. Professionally published stuff from the bigger companies can still totally be poo poo, but there tends to be a lot more production values that can mask it. You mention FFG's editing. I love the poo poo out of my 500 page full color hard-back tome that is Edge of the Empire. But yeah, there's more than a few typos hanging out between those covers. But at first glance, FFG's stuff is gonna look a hell of a lot "better" than something put together by a couple of people using some simple PDF authoring tools.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2014 06:57
|
|
|
If GenCon was in Lee's Summit I would totally go. That's within spitting distance of my house. Anyway, there's always the Overland Park Convention Center, I'm rather fond of that venue.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2015 05:12
|
|
|
As far as GMS goes, his tweets about GenCon were actually semi reasonable.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2015 13:04
|
|
|
Dumnbunny posted:I'm often bemused by the claim that RPG books cost too much. If anything, they cost too little. I think the "costs too much" complaint is mostly coming from people new to the hobby, comparing RPG books to other hardcovers of similar pagecount. A novel is the written work of one or two people, with a handful of editors and publishing staff, and usually with only a couple of art pieces (front cover, back cover, maybe an title page illustration or two). RPG books have a much higher number of people (and thus work) involved in their creation. I know a couple people that never thought about it that way until it was explained to them.
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2015 22:56
|
|
|
Everblight posted:Saint's Row IV Kinzie's in particular. Especially if you talk to her again afterwards.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 10, 2015 22:46
|
|
|
Yeah; complete anecdote...but every time I try to tell a friend or coworker just what it is that I'm up to on Tuesday nights the conversation goes something like this: "Well...its like D&D but I don't actually use that game. Its a different tabletop RPG. Yes, there are others."
|
|
#
¿
Jun 23, 2015 04:18
|
|
|
Dr. Tough posted:George Lucas' treatment of Star Wars fans came pretty close That's honestly a bit of butthurt revisionist history, really...That's actually been brought up in the Star Wars thread over in CineD over the last couple days, and isn't quite as true as it gets parroted.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2015 03:05
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:George Lucas' treatment of his own films has been awful. But his treatment of fans has been pretty great. He's always been highly supportive of fan-made Star Wars content, for example, actively encouraging fans to do their fanfilms and stuff, the whole cosplay scene, all that. Which stands in stark contrast with GW, who send C&Ds and actively sue fans for daring to sully their IP. Yeah, this is the core of it. There's this weird mythology built up that Lucas makes tweaks and changes to his films to actively spite fans, and that the prequel movies were intentionally poorly made, and that everything good in Star Wars came from one of the other people working on the saga. By his own admission, Lucas doesn't work well with people. He's the "ideas guy" and really needs a good crew to handle other duties. Lemniscate Blue posted:Yeah, I'm not inclined to set metaphorical foot in that muck to dig up a grain of value. A quick summary or link to where the discussion starts, please? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3514675&pagenumber=601&perpage=40#post447656368 Here's a good one.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2015 03:30
|
|
|
The trick of Star Wars EU though, is that before Disney the story group was just there for guidance and had to retcon a lot of stuff after the fact. Now, post-Disney, the story group has explicit authority to maintain one unified continuity, and all the non-film stuff is considered to have the same canonical weight as the films.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2015 13:54
|
|
|
A lot of the complainers seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how freedom of speech works. Yeah, if some guy wants to make and publish "tournament of rapists", they're certainly free to do so...but DriveThru is under no obligation to host it on their site. People are mistaking "freedom of speech" for "freedom from criticism" and some kind of weird obligation for any platform to enable their speech. On a very tiny other hand, though, I do wish the official policy was a bit more specific than "we'll know it when we see it". Some basic guidelines would not be amiss there. But i do applaud the CEO for taking personal responsibility.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 3, 2015 11:15
|
|
|
I could get behind having to have an account. (But not a purchase requirement), just so any assholes who submit fake flags can get shut down.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Didn't they pull Rey toys off the shelves because they had a lightsaber? The Rey figures with the saber were streetdated to not come out until a day or two after the movie, to preserve the surprise. Some stores put them out and sold them early. One guy posted a picture of said figure, that he had walked into a Wal-mart and purchased legitimately on the Star Wars Action News facebook page. The post got taken down and that guy got a several-day ban from Facebook for "copyright infringement".
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:Incidentally, on WotC and hateful speech: I learned yesterday from Mark Rosewater's blog that at tournaments, use of misogynistic or hateful speech is now against the rules - if you witness someone using slurs or stuff like 'that deck raped me' they encourage you to call over a judge to handle the situation. This, I think, is a real cool thing. This is a really good sign for the health of the hobby as a whole.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2016 14:43
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:Is it, though? I mean, they're admitting there's a problem, but I don't see much actual action being taken. People won't call anyone out on it. I mean, whatever happened with xbox live banning or suspending you for hate speech? That was a ~big deal~ a year or two ago and I don't think that was ever actually enforced. It is going to come down to individual judges being willing/able to make rulings on stuff like that stick...but the fact that the higher ups are willing to say "this is unacceptable behavior" at all is a great sign. And honestly, if people know about that blog post and know that they can call out toxic players, I really think they will.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
Elfgames posted:yeah i agree but it shouldn't be allowed in the first place Why should people be disallowed from volunteering? Stores aren't lassoing people off the sidewalk and pressing them into indentured servitude. People voluntarily say "hey, I'd like to help out and I don't want any compensation except your gratitude".
|
|
#
¿
Apr 22, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
So people do not have the agency to voluntarily decide they want to donate their time and effort, free of charge, to a hobby they enjoy?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 23, 2016 05:32
|
|
|
Elfgames posted:stupid people deserve to be taken advantage of? Is it really so stupid to voluntarily elect to donate time and effort? Again, the key word here is "voluntary". Nobody is making these judges work, nobody is being put into an MtG labor camp. Some people just like having local Magic scenes enough to be willing to help out to make it happen.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 23, 2016 05:41
|
|
|
It's poo poo like this that really makes me hate the world. People are seriously bent out of shape in 2016 that women, which make up half the world's population, make up half the number of speakers at Gencon? Simple math would suggest that would be the case every year.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2016 11:20
|
|
|
I am incredibly late to the discussion, and only know who Zak S is based off the posts on the last few pages...I've decided that I don't ever want to support him or his endeavours...but I see people mentioning Urban Shadows a lot in relation to him and I'm not seeing his name anywhere in the credits or acknowledgements or anything. Could someone tell me (preferably via PM; I have zero intention of starting a random thread tangent) what exactly his involvement was? From what I've heard about him, it seems worth it to purge the volume from my collection if he's some kind of major contributor. EDIT: And on that note; what would be a better way of getting rid of my copy of Vornheim? Destroying it, or returning to my FLGS (not for a refund; just giving it back to the store it came from) and telling them why I'm doing so? jivjov fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jul 28, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
Oh good; that makes me feel slightly better about that one then. Thanks guys
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2016 03:38
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:I don't think anyone here is going to throw you out of the hivemind for owning a copy of Vornheim. Oh I know. I just personally don't want it in my possession any longer.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
Caedar posted:Mark just posted a short followup: https://plus.google.com/+MarkDiazTruman/posts/2aRBa37wEtf At face value, this looks good. Basically "oh poo poo, I did not know everything that was going on. Lemme reassess a bit"
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
Speaking of Vornheim...it just popped up in the current Bundle Of Holding. On a whim, I contacted the BoH Facebook page and suggested they not give Zak S any exposure due to his actions. Sadly, the canned response I got back was "Vornheim the book isn't objectionable and has provoked no complaints."
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2016 00:50
|
|
|
Is it possible that Truman doesn't want to speak out too explicitly harshly against Z in fear of some manner of reprisal?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2016 19:07
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:But that's the problem; most of the game seems to be there to give it some "weight". I'm reminded of Luke Crane's "Burning Wheel is meant to be a book" argument. Monte is going full bore on this being a physical experience loaded with feelies.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 15, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
DalaranJ posted:If somebody bought me an RPG and asked me to run it I would be much more likely to feel insulted than honored. Unless they chose the RPG very carefully. Yeah; I'd be much more receptive if it was phrased more as "hey, we're interested in playing this, do you have interest in running it?" rather than "here's this book, when can we start?"
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
WaywardWoodwose posted:I got my package from Crane the other day and when i popped it open, found out i had accidentally ordered another copy of Burning Wheel Gold by mistake ( I just clicked the first thing that gave me A book and was done with it), when i already own two already. I know it's my own fault, but I am still so mad at that loving obtuse poo poo he put out that made me stay away from his kickstarter page, and ignore his updates. I would have PMd this, but it doesn't look like you have them; I might be cautiously interested in buying your new-printing copy of Gold off you (if you aren't sending it back to Luke for a refund)!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
chaos rhames posted:I just googled burning wheel pdf download torrent and the first result was a pirate link for the gold edition so I don't think his policy's working out too well. But at least Luke can rest assured that it was dastardly dread pirates who pilfered the magical tomes from the cask of the Great Crane Wizard. The archmage himself is blameless in these infernal proceedings!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
WaywardWoodwose posted:sure, not like i need a third. lemme figure out shipping first. Cool; I don't get paid til Friday anyway.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
LeSquide posted:Can we have an example of this wizard speak? Just read brought the project page for the Codex project. The entire thing is written "in character" as some kind of arcane wizard
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2016 14:03
|
|
|
WaywardWoodwose posted:I just realized i can pop it in another usps flat rate envelope for like, seven bucks. email me at leatherfacexx @ hotmail.com if you're still interested. It's still shrink wrapped and in bubble wrap. I unfortunately had some automotive maintenance issues crop up that ate up this paycheck. I'll hit you up in a couple weeks; if you hold on to it that long. 
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2016 22:52
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
I just can't believe he has any defenders left. Any time someone mentions how late Far West is, a dozen people jump up to say "Oh but he's working on it! For real!"
|
|
#
¿
Sep 7, 2016 19:27
|
|