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DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
Basically, if you're giving money to a man whose primary income comes from making a product named the "Least I Could Do" you've made an error in judgement.

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DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Terrible Opinions posted:

From the numbers I've heard it's okay for business but nowhere near as good as owning the rights to either the Star Wars RPG license or the 40k RPG license.

So, the biggest name in RPGs is now Fantasy Flight?

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

And only a year late.


Serf posted:

Their business plan is bizarre, because you gotta sell books to make money, but they're not doing that.

I think it's pretty clear that they weren't making any money selling books, and that's why they're going to stop. There was an article by the D&D Brand Manager a couple years ago about how the brand is so much bigger than just the RPG. I interpreted that to mean that Salvatore and Greenwood are making Hasbro money, but Mearls isn't (directly).

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Maybe I'll do a more detailed look once we're a month in or so, but it'll be interesting to see if anything actually... well, interesting comes out of this, or if the store will just be buried in this generation's equivalent of Power Classes.

Well if someone was going to make a proper adventure I'd hope it would take more than a couple days.

There could be a chance that crowd-sourcing in this way would have a beneficial effect on development like Murano glassmakers. A hope, not an expectation though.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Halloween Jack posted:

Here are some more thoughts now that I'm not phoneposting: what are the reasons to use the DMG, or the 5e SRD, or the OGL?

I understand that, for all the reasons inklesspen detailed, the DMG is mainly only useful for people who would be writing a zillion words of Forgotten Realms homebrew anyway. They're inviting you to use their IP and to bank on making more through their official store at 50% than you otherwise would at 60% or 75% through DTRPG.

Well with the DMG you get direct access to the entirety of Wizard's carefully cultivated community. Just look at their forums... Oh, they shut down their forums.

I'm beginning to think that they're just bad at this.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
I'm not sure why spiked chain usage always seems to be ascribed to psuedo-evil cultists rather than the more likely batshit insane wire-fu martial artists that looked at the nunchaku and said, "That's nice, but you didn't go far enough"

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Kai Tave posted:

Star Wars was firmly in WotC's hands at that point so good luck there.

Wait, now I want to hear about who made the mistake of dropping this license.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
No. I meant who dropped it at WOTC so FFG could get it.

Okay, you sort of answered that too.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Nuns with Guns posted:

So what do you guys think about the third party making an oculus rift virtual tabletop featured on Dragon+?







I can think of multiple ways you might do a VR or AR experience that fits into a Virtual Table Top.
So why is the one these guys came up with so amazingly stupid?

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Bar Crow posted:

Good design involves abstraction. You want to separate the overall meaning from the specific complexies so you can bring it to forefront.

I didn't even think about this. It's such a basic tenet of design that I guess I assumed anyone capable of designing such a program would have already understood that.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

homullus posted:

In the case of Dragonlance, the name of the setting comes from Important Items That Exist in the setting. There is lancing of dragons with dragonlances, which are . . . lances that do lots of extra damage to dragons, and are wielded primarily while mounted on dragons.

TSR 1982
"Hey, I played this cool arcade game called 'Joust', have you guys heard of it?" -Tracy Hickman

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Evil Mastermind posted:

Remember Mikan and the rat swarm?

Insect Swarm is a creature in Basic Rules Cyclopedia that could easily be abstracted as a template. So, a solved problem for at least 25 years.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
I still can't believe that WOTC opened up a storefront that's name has the acronym DMG.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Arivia posted:

Which works out amazingly well for one person who is primed to make extraordinary good use out of the DM's Guild: Ed Greenwood. He has already started the wheels rolling to get his own stuff up in the DM's Guild, since basically all the core design team of the Forgotten Realms has wanted for decades is the ability to print more stuff as much as possible and to do it without editorial interference.

They're doing Volo's Guides and actual Mirt the Moneylender stories, and all that matters is that license to publish their own stuff for the Realms. It's going to be AMAZING.

:aaaaa: I've been trying to figure out who the target audience for submitting to the DMG is, here it is.

Good for him!

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
It's just a ploy for attention. He knows perfectly well his target audience is people that already shop at Raggi's storefront and he'd get a better cut there anyway.

I'm gonna go back to forgetting this guy exists.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Libertad! posted:

Sounds like Yu Gi Oh was originally a horror manga, then became something else to make it more palatable to the masses.

The Shonen Jump strategy for success involves removing all the interesting ideas from your manga and instead adding tournaments.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Ettin posted:

Did he ever say anything publicly? Not that I don't believe he'd wash his hands of the Marxists are coming to impose Sharia law on gamers! guy, but still.

I also want to know if Mike Mearls ever held those con roundtables about social issues he claimed he was secretly organizing.
The only thing I have heard about WOTC and cons in two years is that they bailed out of gencon, presumably because Hasbro stopped their buck.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Asimo posted:

Yeah. It's interesting census data because it at least shows what people say they want to play (on that site...) but it doesn't really have any correlation to the numbers of what's actually being played. Especially since there's a notorious number of "bathroom reader gamers" in the hobby.

I don't have either of those profile entries filled out. If you're a GM that has to use roll20's comically inept search system to find players then I'm not interested in being in your game.

Terrible Opinions posted:

I think it's only active games because at least the Munchkin number went down from the last time we got a report.

It's probably 'campaigns that currently exist'. If I wanted to play Muchkin I'd probably whip up a campaign instance and then destroy it when we were done playing because all you need is the card deck.

Actually, I'd probably just run it in my test campaign and not change the game type tag.

DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Apr 24, 2016

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

paradoxGentleman posted:

Hm. Is it at all possible that this exposes the ugly underbelly of the D&D community? Could WotC manage to swipe that under the carpet should that be the case?

I'm not sure how this is going to cause people who previously didn't care about Magic to mingle with Magic nerds.

But maybe that's because I think Zendikar is phenomenally dull.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Fair enough!

I was amused at the fact that they hadn't worked out how to keep walls from blocking LoS. You'd think this was a solved issue in video game design, but I only play the things.

Small production teams usually license a physics engine.
Large production teams sometimes are able to 'roll their own'.
Ryan Dancey.

You now have all the pieces you need to determine what went wrong.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Paolomania posted:

Who coined the term "bennies"? It's an annoying word for an expendable resource that sounds like trying to be 90s monetary slang.

It's in my copy of Paranoia 5th so it was almost certainly coined in the 90's.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
According to BGG, Greg Bilsland is leaving WOTC?

https://rpggeek.com/blogpost/54880/greg-bilsland-announces-departure-wizards-coast

Is it just Mike and the "Brand Manager" left?

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Golden Bee posted:

Great qualifying questions:

My family and friends have abandoned me. All I have left are the ENnies.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Mors Rattus posted:

In fairness, this exact thing happened to Apocalypse World, too.

Okay, but AW was good, and the Black Hack was mediocre at best.


Kai Tave posted:

ridiculous elfgame partisan,

Pretend I posted a polearm joke.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

dwarf74 posted:

"Based on the patterns, the problem is clearly about getting new players, which Pathfinder gets few of with 5E available. It's a hard sell at this late stage for a staff member to suggest Pathfinder when 5E is right there."

This is hard for me to understand. Pathfinder and 5e seem about as mechanically distinct as two 3e clones could be. All I can imagine is that customers are coming into the store and literally asking "Do you have that D&D game?"

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Jimbozig posted:

This is silly. Most people don't care about mechanics at all.

Ah, let me rephrase that.

This is hard for me to accept.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
How about I give you 10 bucks and you give me an empty cardboard box that Monte Cook spit into?

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Evil Mastermind posted:

Does it have to be Monte's spit?

No, no, no, something's wrong here. This is... this is Johnathon Tweet's spit. That wasn't the deal!

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

gradenko_2000 posted:

And personally, I as a GM pick the games I want to play, and run the games I want to play, as long as I can find mutually interested players. Someone coming up to me with a copy of ... Eclipse Phase without any prior warning and asking me to run it for them would probably be met with a flat no.

If somebody bought me an RPG and asked me to run it I would be much more likely to feel insulted than honored. Unless they chose the RPG very carefully.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Mors Rattus posted:

cowards

traitors


Luke Crane stomps angrily back and forth in front of a row of d6s lined up on his desk berating them for failing him, yet again.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Evil Mastermind posted:

That came up before, but I still love how nobody in the comments is buying it. And GMS's passive-aggressive "I don't wanna deal with critics" post.

I don't like critics either. And I deal with it exactly the same way GMS does, by never releasing any products.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

ErichZahn posted:

Do you remember the Paranoia weapons chart that just has random loving numbers that don't make any sense? I'm not sure if that was a joke about the industry or just, just a normal chart. :smith:

Working as intended.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Evil Mastermind posted:

"How about other games like Pokémon or role-playing games? (Who can remember them, now?)" - Tom Kirby, GW Chairman, 2013

"It's not like a formerly wildly popular property would ever regain it's former popularity by innovating in some way, that's for sure." - Tom Kirby, probably

Edit: Although to be fair, I guess GW has innovated, just in increasingly terrible and stupid ways.

DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Sep 10, 2016

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

dwarf74 posted:

I think we can break it down to its literal meaning here, since we're talking about Monte Cook - "inventing again." As in, "inventing" stuff that someone else already invented, while claiming credit for innovation. Passive perception, Compels, the list goes on....

Is Monte Cook Games reinventing the wheel?


Desiden posted:

What I find most hilarious about that article is they make such a big deal about how they've never seen anything like it, omg, the kicktraq curve is like nothing else in kickstarter! Not only is it a perfectly normal curve with occasional spikes like any other kickstarter with marketing pieces and stretch goals in the middle, but they actually provide a picture of the curve that shows that its bullshit.

Yeah, the daily data is exactly the picture of any niche product with a kickstarter of that size. Can you guess which days they did publicity interviews? Yes, yes you can.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Comrade Gorbash posted:

That seems to be exactly whats going on. I suspect a lot of what happened is that the D&D team found themselves having to justify their existence to upper management, and made an internal pitch that was a lot like the external pitch to the consumers.

In real terms, D&D just doesn't make enough money as a game to justify much attention from Hasbro. The license for Forgotten Realms and the video games and so forth is a lot more valuable than the game itself. From a business perspective, it would make more sense for Hasbro to let someone else pay them for the right to make D&D. But the D&D team at WotC want to keep their jobs, so they need to convince management that they can put out a product that will make bank.

So they show up and say, hey - here's what 3.x made, and here's what 4th edition made. All edition warring aside, the evidence points to those being pretty similar. Next, they actually use the edition wars and Pathfinder to their advantage and argue the two editions have mostly separate market bases. So then comes the over promise - the same over promise they made to consumers. We'll make one edition to rule them all! It'll keep the 4th edition fans, and steal the 3.x fans back from Paizo. So they get to add the numbers from earlier together as the potential for the new edition.

Layer on the DDI subscriptions and tighter IP control of 4th - very attractive at a corporate level. There's no real reason a new edition can't keep those rolling. Now you've got something that's worth Hasbro's time. So Hasbro greenlights it.

From there, we know what happens. The D&D team doesn't deliver. The game is a not as well executed regression to 3E, which means it turns off 4E fans and doesn't do enough to lure back the 3.x people who left for PF. On top of that, there's a series of own-goals in terms of PR during the development and early release. You've got Mearls pissing someone off every time he opens his mouth, the weird Monte Cook is back/Monte Cook is gone again thing, and finally the controversy over the contributors. Plus, the online portion crashed and burned, so there goes subscription money.

By all accounts what 5th Edition books are out sell well - but well in terms of the RPG market. It's probably doing about as well as 3rd and 4th. In a vacuum that would be fine, but in context? It's significantly less than what was promised, and it came with a lot of entirely avoidable PR messes.

Now Hasbro is in a weird spot. They really only want D&D to license it, but now they've got this game tied around their neck and it's not delivering what was promised, and clearly never will. But they can't turn around and license it out immediately - they can see enough about how the RPG market works that there needs to be a little breathing space between editions, lest they compound fan ire. In the meantime, they don't want to kill off what sales they're getting by axing the team outright and cancelling the line.

So they let it die of inattention. The team attritions out and isn't replaced, releases occur less and less frequently and eventually stop altogether. The end game is simple - let things cool off for a bit, then turn around and sell the license to make D&D tabletop games to someone who actually wants to, then get rid of whatever's left of the WotC D&D team. Hasbro keeps the really valuable part - the right to sell D'rizzt novels and get a cut of digital games. Essentially, they run D&D like Lucasfilms used to run the Star Wars licenses.

My guess is Fantasy Flight Games ends up with the license to make D&D by 2020. They're on record that they want to be the biggest player in the RPG market, and you pretty much have to be making D&D for that to happen. Plus they have a lot of experience with similar agreements, what with Warhammer 40k, Star Wars, and now L5R. At this point it makes a lot of sense for both parties to do a deal.

e: This is also why they don't give a poo poo about burning bridges with their international connections. They don't plan to work with them in the future anyways. As long as whoever they're talking to isn't also handling MtG or something else they actually care about, it doesn't matter. Most likely, the people who actually knew how to do this left already, and they've given some marketing hack a directive to extract every dollar from this white elephant possible before they cash out.

This has been my working theory for awhile, as well. Whether it will play out that way, well I don't know, because

Liquid Communism posted:

Irrationality in this market is a norm.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
Theater industry really feeling the pain of losing the audience of people most likely to explosively vomit inside their theaters.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Halloween Jack posted:

This is the dumbest thing in BECMI:



This is a rule that would have made perfect sense in OD&D but makes absolutely no sense outside of that context.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Halloween Jack posted:

Rob Kuntz wants $24 for a 72-page book about Dave Arneson.

I'll give him ten for a PDF.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Gobbeldygook posted:

it was just 5e versions of classic dungeons.

This entirely explains why it was nominated for an ennie.

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DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Jimbozig posted:

I'm a bit surprised at the love for Veins of the Earth here, but I'm still reading through the bestiary, so maybe it gets better later.

I think the bestiary is the weakest part of the book.

That said, my standout thought about Veins was when it dawned on me that,
I had just read about a setting that was a days march underground.
It has dozens of monsters that are almost certain to kill party members.
And all the people that live there are too alien to be playable as characters (arguably, I guess, but there certainly isn't any advice for it.).

Edit:
Bestiary? More like worstiary. :smaug:

DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jul 10, 2017

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