|
99% of preordering is bullshit, and it's just a way to bank money before the games come out. I have never run into an issue where a title (boardgame, mini, or video game) is out of stock everywhere launch day because I didn't preorder the game. Companies realize this too, which is why they issue all these different preorder bonuses.JoshTheStampede posted:This is where the IS KICKSTARTER A STORE argument starts up, though. For me, kickstarter serves two purposes: It's worse than a store, because there is zero incentive for the kickstarter developer to take care of unhappy customers. Because you give them money, and wish something gets made, the company running the kickstarter has almost no accountability, doesn't have to refund "preorders", and can make whatever changes they like to the project as long as it's outside the chargeback window. A backer has zero recourse to get their money back from a pledge outside of the legal system if a kickstarter doesn't deliver. Just because kickstarter has "deliver something" in their TOS doesn't make it the rule of law. It's not a store, and it's not a way to invest in a company. It's a weird hybrid that takes the disadvantages of both with no real bonus for the person making the pledge outside of "you helped make this cool thing a reality." A real life example. For reasons, I wanted to cancel my pledge on Shadowrun Returns PC. Since I went through kickstarter, I'm out the money 100%, and Hairbrained Schemes is not interested in discussing it with me outside of "No, you're getting the product, hope you like it anyway." If I preordered it through my Friendly Local Neighborhood Video Game Store, it's not a problem, and I can use the money I put down with them on something else. Same thing if I backed a board game vs. preordering it at my FLGS. These local places have the incentive to take care of me as a customer.
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 2, 2024 12:55 |
|
|
I must disagree. Kickstarter is a horrible preorder tool, because at it's core, Kickstarter is not a store.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2013 01:18
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:Yes I did. I gave money. I got a game. Two games. You're arguing semantics. I, on the other hand, have physical evidence. Stop being deliberately obtuse just for the sake of argument. I gave money and did not receive a refund, so my anecdote counters your anectote. They require creators to do so, but it's just Terms of Service. If you're a dissatisfied customer? Or someone who received a broken item? Or the game has changed art direction, design, etc since you backed and you're not happy with it anymore? There's no recourse to receive a refund. Also with Gamestop, if I preorder something at Gamestop and change my mind I can use the preoder money for something else. If I "preorder" something on kickstarter and change my mind? I'm gonna have to sue for a refund because they're not obligated to do anything. Verdugo fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Apr 5, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2013 15:46
|
|
|
quote:Wasn't Kickstarter's original concept, like, a way to invest money in things? That's the nature of the model, but can't we agree that some people think kickstarter doesn't make it clear enough? The hinge of the argument seems to be: "Kickstarter may not be a store, but it presents itself to be close enough like one to make some people think so." Then it degenerates into: "nuh uh / yeah it is / no it isn't / yeah it is / no it isn't" I'm even guilty of this earlier in the thread. Sure, it's against the nature of kickstarter to advertise in giant letters "HEY YOU COULD LOSE YOUR MONEY THIS IS NOT A STORE" but it seems they don't make it clear enough. Kickstarter might not be a "store" technically, but some companies present their products like it is a store. Some people feel like they don't make it clear enough. Then when a consumer has an issue, too bad. Are we really supposed to go, "You should have seen it wasn't a store at all! Sorry you're out your donation!  " Kickstarter isn't a store, but eBay isn't a store either (just a venue) and they have a much better system in place to help unhappy customers, because they realize that without buyers they have no site. The only examples I can think of to illustrate my point are ridiculously stupid ones, outside of my own personal equally ridiculously stupid example. Anecdotes aren't evidence, because for every bad experience there's a good one, so feel free to skip over this next part, but this is where I'm coming from. I backed the Hairbrained Schemes Shadowrun Returns kickstarter. Now, Hairbrained Schemes also is doing pre orders on their site. I also can eventually pre order it on Steam if I was so inclined. Kickstarter states that the creator has an obligation to "provide a product." What if the product is so fundamentally different from the original idea? If I waited and preordered it, I would be able to get mymoney back. I reached out to them trying to recover my initial investment, explaining my concerns, and they basically said, "We are only "obligated" to return your money if we don't come out with something, but we're coming out with something, so we hope you like it!" And then a complete stonewall. Since my admittedly small pledge was on kickstarter, I really have no recourse outside of a lawsuit to recover my investment. A TOS is only enforceable And who is going to sue over $15? So I'm out cash, and lesson learned on my end. This was before the whole "we are releasing DRM free only at launch, if you want updates past launch you need to get Steam" problem that came up. Kickstarter seems to have all the advantages of a store for the seller and none of the advantages of a store for the buyer. eBay does the whole "we're a venue, not a store." Paypal does "we're not a bank, we're a venue." But even they have ways for people to get recourse. And really, everyone loses in some way. The unhappy backer loses because they're out money. Kickstarter and the vendor also both lose, becuase they lose future revenue from unhappy backers not coming back. But not as much, since they have the money. Verdugo fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 19, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Apr 19, 2013 20:46
|
|
|
LumberingTroll posted:That is an interesting idea. I wonder how people would take it. If you go that angle, a vocal subset of your original buyers are going to expect you to never go public, ever, even if it's stupidly successful, since you stipulated it in the kickstarter. A future discount like moths said, or exclusivity in terrain first for a period of time would work better, If that's going to work for you long term. If it's not, and you just want to fund your laser, make it a one time exclusive kickstarter deal with the caveat that they will be opened up for people to order after a period of time. One thing I wouldn't reccommend is what this dude did: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/772848122/underground-lasers-28mm-modular-terrain?ref=live -- so many confusing options. It looks like he's going to get so bogged down with options and orders etc that he's not going to be able to keep track of what's going on. This is one guy who should have just opened up his own web store. Have you looked at Litko? From what I understand it's one dude with a laser who takes orders, cuts stuff custom, and he has a waiting list, and people still buy it in droves. Shogun Miniatures is another one who works with metal. There definitely is a market out there for stuff. I wouldn't cut yourself off from it completely.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 23, 2013 02:45
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Well, again, they have every right to make a game about whatever subject matter they choose. And consumers have every right to buy or not buy it. So just to get this straight: Rape RPGs = OK. Using a non kickstarter site for post kickstarter backer surveys = FORGET THAT BUDDY! I want a refund! Nice to know where your priorities lie.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 9, 2013 00:46
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 2, 2024 12:55 |
|
|
Violence! The RPG is a pretty good Satire of RPGs. So is HOL by White Wolf.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 15, 2013 20:31
|
|