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Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Kai Tave posted:

Nah, Rand resigned after completely blowing his stack at some other dude over something else I don't remember but he was really angry for some reason. It wasn't at Jack though. But this is now veering away from industry chat into "other internet messageboards chat" so I'm not gonna go dig any further into that here.

It was after DillyGreenBean Games announced that in the wake of a preschool shooting tragedy games they would be publishing only family-friendly games so as not to contribute to the culture of violence, or something. I expressed my feelings on this moralizing with exactly the kind of frankness and vitriol that RPGnet prefers its moderators to not have.

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Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Given the knock-on effects, you can probably make an argument that hiring writers for really low salaries is unethical even if the writers do come into it with their eyes open.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I think I can recall one appearance of a succubus in roleplaying that was vaguely interesting, and that was the one in Fires of Dis, which is focused more on separating her sucker from her than on the actual sucking process.

Oh, and there's the one in Torment, but she's based around playing against type, I think.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
If a hero wants to have a sharp stabbin' knife, he's got to occasionally spend time sitting down and sharpening his knives.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Terrible Opinions posted:

I believe the preferred modern nomenclature is Steven Universe fans.

Yes, yes, we're all very impressed with the people who only like Mature Things For Grown Ups.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Mors Rattus posted:

Yeah, I've noticed that often people seem to think that a happy ending can't exist in 'mature' fiction, it's not realistic unless it's unhappy.

Yeah, that's ultimately why I think Steven Universe is one of the best shows on television for people of any age—because it's "mature" in the sense that it's pushing a genuinely mature emotional outlook on problems and relationships even though it's all seen from the perspective of a ten-year-old.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Yeah, a quality ePub is a reasonable amount of work and Chuubo has a good ePub largely because I love Chuubo and love ebooks and make them for free. If I charged even a minimal amount for my services in that area there wouldn't be ePubs, because people don't buy them enough to justify it.

(Although, ePubs that are merely mediocre—basically, all the text just kind of there—are not that difficult to make.)

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I should also mention that a lot of publishers don't understand ePub's strengths and make really bad ePubs because they're trying to include all the things that the PDF and print copies will have, like color artwork and complicated fonts. Ultimately this often doesn't work (because you'll read an ePub on screens of extremely variant shapes and types), and you get things like Onyx Path's Anarchs Unleashed ePub, that winds up being slow to load and difficult to read on a Kindle because it tries to use big images and fonts that aren't designed to be read on an epaper screen.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Well, that and you can't create a game-manual-as-software out of your kitchen as a single non-programmer working out of your kitchen.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Speaking of which, they finally started selling the core 4e books in PDF again yesterday.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Yeah, one of the Chinese artists that Eos hired used extensive tracing, some of it from Touhou fanart and some from other stuff like vocaloids, and Jenna had to find replacements for quite a lot of pieces.

The Exalted guy responsible for Steam Observation Prana is probably from the same neck of the planet, honestly.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
We keep telling people that the Idol and the Child of the Sun are black, quite a dark black, but quite a few artists continue being confused by this notion.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
That would inevitably result in a Cugel movie that doesn't realize that Cugel is awful and makes him the unironic hero.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

dwarf74 posted:

This, I learned, was why the fantastic Young Justice got cancelled despite being really great and proving once and for all that Robin is better than batman.

Girls liked it. Girls don't buy action figures. Sorry, everyone, gotta shut it down.

A lot of the people involved in the show keep coming out to disclaim this one. Young Justice got cancelled because it didn't sell action figures, period, to anybody.

Other shows, I can't say.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

unseenlibrarian posted:

Oh, it's more insane than that.

See, they had action figures planned all the way through season 2, even before season 1 was finished; there were previews of some of the new characters and costumes floating around from conventions.

But the demographics came back as basically "Girls (And people in the wrong age bracket) are watching this too much, we'll never sell these toys, cancel the toy line." So they didn't sell action figures because -they didn't sell action figures-, because everyone knows girls don't buy them so there's no reason to sell them. It's a recursive marketing loop.

There are other similar stories from other shows on Cartoon network at the same time, (See also Symbionic Titan, which was canceled for lack of merchandising when they -never made any-) and then there's the Blade debacle on Spike (Blade was their #1 rated show. It was most popular with women. Spike had marketed itself as being the MAN NETWORK FOR MEN and so all its advertisements were aimed at the MAN NETWORK audience, and they were not prepared for an audience of mostly women, so they canceled the show.)

Now take a look at what happens when a bunch of dudes start liking a show made for girls, and it's even worse.

No, I mean, that story literally isn't true.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I won't lie, I've considered doing this with some old White Wolf books and just sending them the files out of the blue.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Yeah, but it's way easier to pay nerds $50 that they'll probably spend on your products to do it for you than it is to scan them all out yourself, especially when your team is slashed down to basically nothing.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

gnome7 posted:

I think part of that defensiveness when posting in a public place (like Twitter or the SA Forums) comes less from trying to say "oh you should try these vampire things, person who said they are tired of vampire things" and more "oh this person says vampire things are tiresome, I hope they don't convince other people that vampires are tiresome, here's a bunch of cool vampire things for everyone else to see so they know vampires are cool actually." It isn't even you specifically they're trying to convince, even if their spiel is directed at you. It's everyone reading your conversation they're trying to convince, because you want more people to like the things you like, right? You don't want them to also think the things you like are dull, so you need to talk about how cool they are wherever someone talks about how dull they are.

I think a lot of it has to do with the market being so small and relatively desperate that there's a meaningful incentive for fans to recruit new players for their favorite games just on principle and to likewise make an effort to prevent negative opinions from becoming prevailing wisdom.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
It isn't actually hyperbole if your use of the word is perfectly and absolutely correct.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Yeah, I've always associate the attitude in question with using "female" as a noun, not as an adjective. Really, using anything else as an adjective feels weird. Saying "woman game designer" feels kind of clunky in my mouth.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
It's like I'm reading Boy's Life again.

Is that still a thing? /checks

Apparently it is!

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I have to admit I don't actually give everybody a hire a "Nazi Y/N?" background check.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
If people want clean, art-free layouts, their solution is going to be in EPUB, not in anti-deluxe book versions.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Like many people, I find the whole "support FLGS y/n" debate perplexing and weird because I don't have a FLGS.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Kai Tave posted:

I can only speak for myself but I've lived in various places at various points in time and had a variety of game store availability at various points therein, and the availability or lack thereof has had a noticeable impact on the sorts of games I've purchased and played at those times. At one point the only game store local to me pretty much only dealt in Magic, so that's what I played. When I lived in areas where there weren't any active game stores in reasonable driving distance not only did I not buy games but I also didn't really play any. Now that I live in an area where there are several quality game stores within a reasonable distance I've bought into heavier boardgames as well as tabletop miniatures in the form of X-Wing because there are actually active communities centered around these stores. I wouldn't have spent hundreds of dollars on tiny plastic spaceships just to go to someone's house and play that one guy every other weekend, nor would I have bought boardgames like Argent or Steampunk Rally or Kemet because quite frankly I don't have a super close-knit circle of personal friends all willing to get together every week to play boardgames these days. So anecdotal though it may be, the presence of active social circles centered around local game stores has impacted both my purchasing and playing habits.

That makes sense, but I'm basically in a completely different boat because even when I had a local store, I shopped there only rarely. I've never actually had a gaming group that wasn't online.

I'm not completely sure if there are any other nerds in this town. I guess there probably are, and we just haven't met?

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Yeah, "no characters who aren't worthy of empathy" is basically a rule for me at this point.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Having just finished a big art direction project, I feel like an art thread would be really cool.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Pretty much every time this forum gives itself permission to broadcast negativity without restraint, the results are awful.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Maybe categories for things like "inclusivity" and "well-managed Kickstarter."

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

LashLightning posted:

Yeah, because he actually wants to rule Ankh-Morpork to make it work efficiently, not because he actually hates any particular part of the populace and wants to make their life hell or to use ruler-ship as a spring-board to making money elsewhere.

gently caress, what even was his end-game? I haven't read the last 3 or 4 books yet, including the Tiffany Aching ones. I know Wuffles has died, Vetinari is getting older, has Vetinari even figured out a successor? He's got his "Dark Clerks" and Sam Vines - some sort of eternal, self-running bureaucracy, painstakingly planned out so it doesn't gently caress up? Unless he's got a plan to nick his own hourglass from Death's house and, I don't know, put it on it's side so it doesn't run-out, Ankh-Morpork is kind of hosed once he's gone.

Granny passes the torch to Tiffany, right? Who can Vetinari pass the torch to?

It would basically have to be Moist von Lipwig, although I'm not really sure if Moist would ultimately be up for it.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
At present, nobody is actually making any money, so yes, everything in the industry needs to cost more than it does.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Nuns with Guns posted:

The paranoia kickstarter made £217,517 out of a £30,000 goal. They're doing fine.

That's not really a great measure of anything, honestly.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Nuns with Guns posted:

It's a measure that there's a lot of interest in the game. But I double checked the kickstarter, and I see they didn't charge for any shipping on their game boxes, which seems like a bigger misstep than a $50.00 PDF.

Well, that's what I mean? You can see that there's interest, but if they aren't charging enough per unit, most of that money is going to go into fulfillment and they wind up having a "massively successful" Kickstarter that didn't make any money, or lost money.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
True, I was taking "nobody makes any money in this industry" as correct based on personal knowledge.

Obviously a few people make some money, largely by serving as one-stop shops who do everything themselves, but generally speaking the combination of "the general level of art, design, and technical writing people expect to find in RPG products" and "the amount of money people are prepared to pay for these products" results in "nobody makes enough money to support themselves on."

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Kwyndig posted:

Writers and artists are criminally underpaid, nobody edits worth a drat

Incidentally, there's a connection here. There are a lot fewer people crying out for the chance to be published technical writing editors just to see their name in print, and for-serious editors are going to cost you multiple thousands of dollars, which in a lot of cases means an editor would stand to make more money off the book than the person who wrote it.

Thus, most books either go unedited or have a low-level editor who's closer to a proofreader-slash-beta-reader.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

jivjov posted:

I wonder how people would react to a Kickstarter stretch goal that was for "hiring a professional technical editor"

It's crossed my mind often.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Kwyndig posted:

I'm reading one now, but it's actually a reprint of two books jammed together.

It really bugs me that no ebook store appears to be able to sell bundles that aren't single files with all the collected books in one. How am I supposed to organize my library this way?

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Also nobody can afford it.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Elfgames posted:

It's kind of weird seeing you guys act like decent fluff and a technically written ruleset cant go hand in hand like 4e had in my opinion basically the best fluff in D&D it did have a problem with a few too many pages of powers but that's always a D&D thing

It's less about whether they can go together and more about whether hiring an outside writer or editor will make you more or less money.

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Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Caedar posted:

I think I can provide another data point.

My editing work on board-game rulebooks often amounts to technical writing. One internal metric I use is my edit count divided by the original word count, and a typical board-game rulebook hits 50% or more. Some games require four, five, six passes, hitting really close to 100% or more than 100%. I worked on one not too long ago that doubled in word count because it was just so underdeveloped. Right now I charge $40 per hour, which is definitely lower than I could charge in other fields. This hourly rate can work out to anywhere between a couple hundred (for well-written, smaller rulebooks) to one or two thousand (for poorly written, larger rulebooks).

This level of editing is, unfortunately, prohibitively expensive for larger RPGs, even though they're a bit easier because they're not solid blocks of rules. A large RPG (75-100k words) with mediocre writing would probably reach mid-four figures or more if I went in planning to do technical-level editing. That's not a particularly enticing ask for anyone but big names or people really committed to quality, so I usually have to set a per-word rate and triage well. I can't really "do it all" like I can with board games.

Yeah, I was hoping that we could use our next small Chuubo book (a collection of all 24 Arcs, including the ones from the corebook jazzed up and all the ones Jenna wrote for Patreon) to develop a relationship with a technical editor on a small project before committing to pay money for a big one. But at the size the book wound up being, we're looking at something like $4,500 just for the second tier of editing services that doesn't include mechanical stuff.

That's nearly equivalent to a small book's art budget. How many books would make more additional money from having technical editing than they would from doubling the amount of art?

(Nobilis might be one of them but I bet it's not true in a lot of other cases.)

It's definitely something that people need but it's the kind of need that gets put off for unsurprising reasons.

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