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homullus posted:I am in favor of game companies being able to better figure out how desired a product is in advance of producing it. Oh, you're willing to donate more to see this done and get these extras, and fund this upgrade for everyone else? Cool! KS also aggregates all of the projects under one roof. I think most people don't go to every game company's website often enough for this ransom model to succeed when distributed across all publishers. It might be better in some ways to have a site that is games-only, because such a site could perhaps make the KS + Amazon cut of the action smaller. It would miss some of the exposure, though. This is where the IS KICKSTARTER A STORE argument starts up, though. For me, kickstarter serves two purposes: 1. It allows companies of any size to see before spending money whether or not a product has an audience. Projects like this aren't designed to make a ton of profit, or at least not more than they would have anyway. This is where larger companies like WotC can run kickstarters that are basically glorified pre-orders with bonuses. They aren't raising funds to get the project off the ground, they're just doing what they would do normally, with more publicity and less risk. I don't have a problem with that at all, but some people do on KS ideological purity grounds. This is the type of project where you really do have to look at what you are getting for the money, because that's all you are getting - you aren't really donating to a project you want to see through, since it would get made anyway - you're just in it for the pre-order bonuses. 2. Raising money to be able to afford a project that might be profitable, but that otherwise would never get made because of a lack of up-front capital. THIS type is where people get mad at companies like WotC, since they can drat well afford to make stuff on their own and don't need fundraising to do it. KICKSTARTER IS NOT A STORE people want every project to be #2, and the ones that are more like #1 piss them off because for those projects yes, KICKSTARTER IS A STORE.
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Apr 2, 2013 20:26
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Kai Tave posted:But the stuff you're "buying" doesn't exist is the thing. If I go to a mall or a grocery or whatever I don't give the cashier a bunch of my money as soon as I walk in and then if it turns out they don't have what I'm looking for go "aw shucks" and leave. I've paid for things that don't yet exist at Gamestop plenty of times. I guess Gamestop isn't a store.
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Apr 5, 2013 15:25
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Kai Tave posted:I guess Duke Nukem Forever would be the game that hosed everything up. Yeah, Gamestop takes pre-orders on their own initiative, just on good word from the publisher that the game is coming out someday. The publisher has nothing to do with it. You don't have to pay in full but you can. I don't know at what point Gamestop accepts that a game is never coming out - I'm sure that Duke Nukem guy could have gotten his money back at any point during that ten years.
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Apr 5, 2013 15:41
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Fenarisk posted:Kickstarter is run the same way PayPal is, with zero consumer protection because of precisely what it is. If you don't like that chance don't use it, just as a lot of people stopped using PayPal. Paypal has a lot of consumer protections though?
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Apr 19, 2013 19:23
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Gau posted:All of this raises the larger question, which is "why do people care so much if Kickstarter is a store or not?" Because KICKSTARTER IS NOT A STORE became a cliche phrase people use to shout down any complaints people ever have about pledge levels not being good deals or anything like that.
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Apr 19, 2013 20:32
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jivjov posted:Yes, because printing, binding, and shipping is free for them, apparently. That's not what he said at all. Evil Hat needs money to do things but they could afford to release Fate Core themselves. They don't need KICKSTARTER money, it just makes it a lot easier. People have this idea that kickstarter should only ever be used for projects that have zero chance of existing without kickstarter and that's not the sole intent.
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Apr 21, 2013 19:56
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Baron Porkface posted:Someone in the last thread quoted someone saying that there have only been 4 true innovations in tabletop gaming, and MTG was one of them. Does anyone know what the others were? I'd assume D&D was one of the others.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:15
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LumberingTroll posted:These are all very good points, I guess I wouldn't mind setting up a store after a set time and doing it at a pace I can manage. That way anyone who backed would have exclusivity to order more for a while. Then I could eventually open it up to other people. I have pleanty of room in my shot for multiple machines if I wanted I suppose. Yeah, definitely do not promise in your kickstarter that you will never start a company or sell this stuff on a larger scale. Feel free to say you have no current plans to do so but make it clear you are not promising one-time only kickstarter exclusive poo poo, because people will go loving nuts on you if you say that and then later (even years later) "go back on it".
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Apr 23, 2013 03:02
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Lakedaimon posted:I liked the system GMT games has used for like 10 years now. They would propose a game and have people "buy" it, which typically involved CC numbers. But customers did not get charged until the game was actually in production. And it would not go into production unless enough people had essentially pre-ordered the game for GMT to break even, which was usually between 500 and 1000 copies. This is exactly how kickstarter works.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:26
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Lakedaimon posted:I thought KS charged you as soon as the project was "funded"? Well it charges you at the end of the kickstarter, not at the point where the goal is met, but yes.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:48
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jivjov posted:I previously expressed my displeasure with project creators choosing to make their projects too complex for Kickstarter's own tools to handle and instead make their backers jump through hoops and use mandatory external pledge managing tools. That certainly is one way to put it. Another is that you steadfastly refused to accept that kickstarters built in survey tool is terrible, that external pledge managers are the norm, have been for most of the life of kickstarter, and that backerkit in particular has a good reputation and isn't a fly by night operation.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:46
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Also if you take a job laying out a book you are implicitly agreeing that the book is a product that should be published. People who disagree with you are going to consider you part of why the book exists, because you HELPED MAKE IT A THING. Walton is part of the culture that creates and accepts poo poo like this. He's not a villain but he is in the wrong here and it's completely reasonable to call him out on that and not want to work with him anymore, regardless of what high opinion one might have about his other work. I really like Enders Game but ill never give Orson Scott Card another dime and I'm not conflicted about that at all.
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Aug 9, 2013 23:41
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MisterShine posted:Let's talk Wrath of Kings. Im backing this KS, and Im grabbing two starters, Hadross the Undersea faction and Nasier the Masked warrior group. Now I really love the Nasier base line trooper the ashman but their secondary troop the Pelgarth has some issues. They're wearing minimum clothing because they don't have the balls to just make naked soldiers and say they don't wear clothes because they have armor skin. And/or people would give them just as much or more poo poo if they did that.
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Sep 16, 2013 04:23
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