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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:This is like one of those old Duelist puzzles. I can't come up with any three-turn set of game actions that could have resulted in that state. T1: Forest, Birds T2: Birds -> Sprawl, Forest + Sprawl -> BTE, Nykthos for 4, Garruk, untap lands and faceroll spells
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May 14, 2014 15:20
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:This is like one of those old Duelist puzzles. I can't come up with any three-turn set of game actions that could have resulted in that state. Garruk is on 5, so that means he had to be cast on t2. Primetime doesn't say haste and he swung, so that means he also had to have been cast on t2 right? lord of saturn is right, that would let him untap nykthos and the utopia sprawl forest, retap nykthos with 6 on the board, casting primetime on 2. thats loving crazy. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 15:39
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T1 birds T2 nykthos, sprawl, bte, activate nykthos for 4 Garruk, untap forest and nykthos. Activate nykthos for 6. Primetime. E:fb
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May 14, 2014 16:41
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jassi007 posted:Garruk is on 5, so that means he had to be cast on t2. Primetime doesn't say haste and he swung, so that means he also had to have been cast on t2 right? Nice to see someone making it work. I've gotten double BTE, Nykthos, Garruk, Primetime a few times on turn 2 before. Pretty much it was the exact same game state seen here except no Bird. I've hard cast Emrakul turn 2 while goldfishing on my living room couch, but that's magical Christmas land, draw the perfect 9 cards stuff. After another train wreck of a modern Monday I'm probably giving up and trying Amulet combo, because I refuse to play a "real" deck in this format. I'm so tired of getting screwed by this deck giving me draws that are statistically impossible.
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May 14, 2014 17:00
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suicidesteve posted:Nice to see someone making it work. I've gotten double BTE, Nykthos, Garruk, Primetime a few times on turn 2 before. Pretty much it was the exact same game state seen here except no Bird. I've hard cast Emrakul turn 2 while goldfishing on my living room couch, but that's magical Christmas land, draw the perfect 9 cards stuff. After another train wreck of a modern Monday I'm probably giving up and trying Amulet combo, because I refuse to play a "real" deck in this format. I'm so tired of getting screwed by this deck giving me draws that are statistically impossible. Don't feel bad buddy. My local store meta is apparently all combo and control. Affinity is not great in this environment, so next modern FNM i'm bringing mono-u tron. The funniest cheap modern deck I can think of. I really like blue tron but it sucks against agro funny enough, but it does mean mean things to combo/control.
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May 14, 2014 17:23
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Yeah, the lack of early game disruption really hurts Tron when it is matched up against aggro or fast combo decks. Still, Mono-U is better than RG in that regard since most aggro decks have zero answers to a resolved Platinum Angel with probable countermagic backing it up.
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May 14, 2014 17:31
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Konstantin posted:Yeah, the lack of early game disruption really hurts Tron when it is matched up against aggro or fast combo decks. Still, Mono-U is better than RG in that regard since most aggro decks have zero answers to a resolved Platinum Angel with probable countermagic backing it up. This happened to me last night playing GR tron in the top 4 of a LGS modern tourney vs a guy I had 2-0'd in the swiss. Sigh. There is nothing more annoying then losing to a Aven Mindcensor that he resolved the turn before I draw a sundering titan that would've wiped all his lands.
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May 14, 2014 18:25
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mcmagic posted:This happened to me last night playing GR tron in the top 4 of a LGS modern tourney vs a guy I had 2-0'd in the swiss. Sigh. There is nothing more annoying then losing to a Aven Mindcensor that he resolved the turn before I draw a sundering titan that would've wiped all his lands. What does Mindcensor do to Sundering Titan?
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May 14, 2014 18:28
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What a Judas posted:What does Mindcensor do to Sundering Titan? Probably just had the mana to cast trinket mage and cast sundering on the same turn
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May 14, 2014 18:30
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What a Judas posted:What does Mindcensor do to Sundering Titan? Kills you before you can play it and win the game lol. My turn: I'm at 3 with a sundering titan in my hand. He has a Goyf, Clique and Nacatal out. I draw a Firespout off a cracked Relic of Progen but have to tap Karpulsan Forest for R/G to wipe his board with it and he flashes in the mindcensor at the end of my turn and kills me. I guess i paid the price for not having grove of the burnwillows there too...
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May 14, 2014 18:38
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GR tron runs sundering titan? What happened to 3x wurmcoil 4x karn 1x emrakul setup everyone was running
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May 14, 2014 18:41
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Mortimer posted:GR tron runs sundering titan? I have those too. I board a singleton Titan cause it's a blowout against zoo and scapeshift.
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May 14, 2014 18:43
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mcmagic posted:Kills you before you can play it and win the game lol. The way you wrote the other post it seemed like he played the Aven a turn before you could play the Titan and I was confused why it mattered. Makes sense now.
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May 14, 2014 18:44
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jassi007 posted:Don't feel bad buddy. My local store meta is apparently all combo and control. Affinity is not great in this environment, so next modern FNM i'm bringing mono-u tron. The funniest cheap modern deck I can think of. I really like blue tron but it sucks against agro funny enough, but it does mean mean things to combo/control. Don't even get me started on Tron. Modern in general is pretty much all combo and control, which half the time throws Resto and Kiki-Jiki in anyway because. There's robots, which still has a combo feel to it, and zoo which is just not good. That's why I (usually) love playing this deck; at best, people have no idea what's going on and are intrigued, and at worst it's borderline condescension at that cute ramp deck. But at least it's original, you know? I just need to put some work into it. And I need Wizards to reprint Wild Growth for modern. But seriously, 3 games of literally nothing but land draws off of an otherwise decent starting hand, and 2 more of mulling to 4 and playing through the entire game (all but one of the flood games were against Tron too, so it's not like they were over in 3 turns.) without a single green mana source really seems like it should be pretty much Edit: not actually impossible, obviously. Just statistically impossible, especially for only having played 9 games. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 19:24 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 19:08
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Mortimer posted:GR tron runs sundering titan?
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May 14, 2014 19:31
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suicidesteve posted:Edit: not actually impossible, obviously. Just statistically impossible, especially for only having played 9 games.
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May 14, 2014 20:34
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Wadjamaloo posted:This is literally not how statistics work. Ok, what are the odds that those things happen in 9 games in a 60 card, 20 land deck where 15 lands are green or effectively green? Assuming sufficient randomization, which I question, but I shuffle for a good minute or 2 every time. Let's say those games lasted 10 turns, which is probably a good average, and with me being on the play for 3 of them. I bet it's astronomically low. That'll teach me to edit around someone posting "but that's not what impossible means!"
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May 14, 2014 21:17
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Over the course of a tournament, a million different things happen which have terribly low odds of occuring. That's kinda how a deck works. The chances of drawing any one hand is astronomically low, but in the end you do draw one of those hands.
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May 14, 2014 23:23
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suicidesteve posted:Ok, what are the odds that those things happen in 9 games in a 60 card, 20 land deck where 15 lands are green or effectively green? Assuming sufficient randomization, which I question, but I shuffle for a good minute or 2 every time. Let's say those games lasted 10 turns, which is probably a good average, and with me being on the play for 3 of them. I bet it's astronomically low. The funny thing is that the part you crossed you out was correct. quote:seems like it should be pretty much impossible.
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May 15, 2014 00:35
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I've been playing around with a Modern Goblins deck. It's pretty fun; obviously not super powerful or competitive, but it has some pretty good match ups. Also: it's just fun. Deck: Modern Gobbos  //Main 19 Mountain 4 Goblin Grenade 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Foundry Street Denizen 4 Goblin Bushwhacker 4 Goblin Guide 4 Legion Loyalist 3 Dragon Fodder 3 Krenko's Command 3 Mogg War Marshal 4 Goblin Chieftain 3 Goblin King 1 Hellrider //Sideboard 2 Tormod's Crypt 3 Shattering Spree 1 Dragon's Claw 1 Blood Moon 2 Zo-Zu the Punisher 3 Leyline of Punishment 2 Hellrider 1 Krenko, Mob Boss  Display deck statisticsTurn one Foundry Street Denizen into Turn 2 Goblin Guide and Legion Loyalist is pretty much wonderful. Follow it up with a Goblin Chieftain and it's hard to lose. Worst match up I've found for the deck is that Knights tribal deck you see frequently on MODO, which is basically an auto-lose because 2 mana 2/2 first strikers with pro red just beat goblins, period. On the other hand, the deck can just bash it's face into an awful lot of other decks and come back from nothing. Had some really great wins against Affinity, Tron, Ad Naseum, and Jund. I think I need to stick slightly more land in, probably some Cavern of Souls to help it against America / UR Young Pyromancer, because I desperately want more Hellriders landing. Hellrider landing with any Goblins on board basically wins the game immediately. Probably cut some of the two-mana-get-two-goblins. Also need to really mess with that sideboard. Probably should just replace Krenko with something more interesting, since I think he's just unplayable with my current mana base.
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May 16, 2014 04:34
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That deck really does look fun! Out of curiosity, have you considered Warren Instigator, not to put goblins into play for free, but as a dude who gets double the benefit from your lords? I guess that's probably just worse than Dragon Fodder actually since it's better to sac a Dragon Fodder token to Goblin Grenade, but that was my first thought.
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May 16, 2014 05:20
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Warren Instigator would be great if there were some better larger Goblins to trick in in Modern, or some Goblin Recruiter type dudes.
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May 16, 2014 05:27
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Zorak posted:Warren Instigator would be great if there were some better larger Goblins to trick in in Modern, or some Goblin Recruiter type dudes. You act like Siege-Gang Commander wasn't reprinted. There's also the nice bit about cheating in a lord on the first strike step making your slower goblins tougher. I love goblins as a deck, I just can't figure out how it keeps any sort of presence through a Firespout or Anger of the Gods with no card draw. Dangerous Wager? Pyrite Spellbomb?
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May 16, 2014 05:31
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Tharizdun posted:You act like Siege-Gang Commander wasn't reprinted. There's also the nice bit about cheating in a lord on the first strike step making your slower goblins tougher. The thing with Siege-Gang is that you're never going to hardcast it, and it's not impactful enough to justify it just for the cheat factor. Warren Instigator in fact just feels like it makes you empty your hand into wraths even quicker  And with wraths, I dunno, post wrath almost every card is equivalent off the top deck because ideally you've weakened them to that it doesn't matter what it is.
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May 16, 2014 05:38
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Zorak posted:I've been playing around with a Modern Goblins deck. It's pretty fun; obviously not super powerful or competitive, but it has some pretty good match ups. Also: it's just fun. Hell yes, someone to talk shop with re: Goblins. This is the list I'm finishing up that I stole from Molybdenum's friend and added a sideboard- Deck: Modern "Goblins" //Lands 4 Contested War Zone 14 Mountain //Spells 4 Goblin Grenade 4 Kuldotha Rebirth 4 Mox Opal //Creatures 4 Goblin Arsonist 4 Goblin Bushwhacker 2 Goblin Chieftain 4 Goblin Guide 4 Legion Loyalist 4 Memnite 4 Ornithopter 4 Signal Pest //Sideboard 3 Grafdigger's Cage 3 Lightning Bolt 3 Shattering Spree 1 Goblin Chieftain 2 Magus of the Moon 3 Reforge the Soul Display deck statisticsAdmittedly it's half Affinity and half RDW using Goblins, but in goldfishing the deck swinging for double digits on turn 2 isn't too tough. E: Tharizdun posted:I love goblins as a deck, I just can't figure out how it keeps any sort of presence through a Firespout or Anger of the Gods with no card draw. Dangerous Wager? Pyrite Spellbomb? Kill them before turn 3 
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May 16, 2014 05:40
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C-Euro posted:Hell yes, someone to talk shop with re: Goblins. This is the list I'm finishing up that I stole from Molybdenum's friend and added a sideboard- That list looks like it'd be so much better with Foundry Street Denizen instead of Arsonist, you generate tokens so fast that the dude along swings in for like five or six.
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May 16, 2014 05:46
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I'm sure you've got good reasons for its omission but it just feels like a deck like that is screaming for Aether Vial.
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May 16, 2014 05:51
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Zorak posted:That list looks like it'd be so much better with Foundry Street Denizen instead of Arsonist, you generate tokens so fast that the dude along swings in for like five or six. You're probably right, I just don't have a playset. Stinky Pit posted:I'm sure you've got good reasons for its omission but it just feels like a deck like that is screaming for Aether Vial. Honestly the deck is so fast that a card like Aether Vial seems too slow (my turn 2 damage record from goldfishing is 18  ). I can try it but at first glance I'd rather play Guide or Rebirth or even Signal Pest turn 1, and Vial doesn't do anything the turn you play it nor can it swing for damage the turn after you play it.
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May 16, 2014 06:04
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I played a good bit of Legacy Goblins and Aether Vial was my favorite 1 drop. It let the deck do a lot and have games in matches it otherwise wouldn't of and I love that, I'm sure Modern is much different but I can't help imagining Stingscourging away a critical Emrakul or Wurmcoil Engine and it makes me think "Yeah, I want to be able to do that even if it means being a little slower most of the time"
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May 16, 2014 08:22
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Modern Goblins just doesn't have access to the mana denial to make Vial worth the time it takes. No Wasteland or Port locks you into the fastest possible beatdown plan pretty hard.
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May 16, 2014 09:40
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Stinky Pit posted:I played a good bit of Legacy Goblins and Aether Vial was my favorite 1 drop. It let the deck do a lot and have games in matches it otherwise wouldn't of and I love that, I'm sure Modern is much different but I can't help imagining Stingscourging away a critical Emrakul or Wurmcoil Engine and it makes me think "Yeah, I want to be able to do that even if it means being a little slower most of the time" I'm sure legacy is much different from modern but I can't imagine why you wouldn't play cryptic command in a control deck in legacy. I can only imagine bouncing away a critical birthing pod or countering a critical splinter twin and it makes me think 'man maybe my experiences in one format are almost wholly irrelevant to another'
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May 16, 2014 13:56
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Rollie the Guar posted:Modern Goblins just doesn't have access to the mana denial to make Vial worth the time it takes. No Wasteland or Port locks you into the fastest possible beatdown plan pretty hard. Also you're missing Ringleader to reload, matron to tutor, Warchief for mana acceleration, incinerator to uncounterably kill things and get CA... Mostly Ringleader though I think, it lets Legacy goblins be a kind of weird control deck.
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May 16, 2014 14:14
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cryptic is a LOT of mana in a format with wasteland and rishadan port..
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May 16, 2014 14:15
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Vilgan posted:cryptic is a LOT of mana in a format with wasteland and rishadan port.. Perhaps why one shouldn't base card evaluations in one format based on their performance in another? :p EDIT : vvv : Holy hell y'all missed my goddamn point. Shavnir fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 15:24
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Vilgan posted:cryptic is a LOT of mana in a format with wasteland and rishadan port.. Plus, as good as Cryptic is, JtMS is still JtMS.
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May 16, 2014 15:34
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Elyv posted:Also you're missing Ringleader to reload, matron to tutor, Warchief for mana acceleration, incinerator to uncounterably kill things and get CA... Also Piledriver! Basically modern goblins lacks like, every key goblin so it's pretty miserable. I'm not really seeing what that list does better than affinity, to be honest. Zoness fucked around with this message at 15:42 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 15:39
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Zoness posted:Basically modern goblins lacks like, every key goblin so it's pretty miserable. Except that it works pretty OK as a synergistic agro deck and also: it's fun. I don't think anyone is saying it's the super secret deck that's gonna make waves in Modern. It definitely could do with having some of Legacy's more synergistic goblins though. Goblin Warchief (making it more reliable to power out the top end) and Piledrivers (just breaking stuff) would open up so many more options.
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May 16, 2014 16:30
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Zoness posted:Also Piledriver! It is better at not costing hundreds of dollars and has way better flavor.
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May 16, 2014 16:31
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AgentSythe posted:It is better at not costing hundreds of dollars and has way better flavor. It's playing mox opals, that's like half the cost of Affinity already. Well, one of the lists is at least. (I didn't see Zorak's list originally). And flavor is like, just your opinion, man. Zoness fucked around with this message at 16:39 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 16:36
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Shavnir posted:'man maybe my experiences in one format are almost wholly irrelevant to another'  Man, if only I was aware of that. The post you quoted literally says "I know Modern is different" and the post before it started with "I'm sure you have good reasons for its omission" but I guess we can't discuss those differences or reasons for that omission here in the eternal format Magic thread, that would just be stupid. Rollie the Guar posted:Modern Goblins just doesn't have access to the mana denial to make Vial worth the time it takes. No Wasteland or Port locks you into the fastest possible beatdown plan pretty hard. Elyv posted:Also you're missing Ringleader to reload, matron to tutor, Warchief for mana acceleration, incinerator to uncounterably kill things and get CA... These are pretty much what I assumed at a quick glance. Sacrificing that little bit of speed for vial doesn't seem to produce much of a oay-off later on since the pool of modern Goblins is pretty lacking. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 16:51 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 16:39
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