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timp
Sep 19, 2007

Everything is in my control
Lipstick Apathy

Popcorn posted:

I'm not a drummer. Do common rock patterns have names? For example, I've heard the pattern at 2:05 in this video in lots of songs (snare on every quarter-beat, kicks after the third and fourth):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iekm107fgqs&t=124s

I know there's a four-to-the-floor. Are there any more famous patterns with names I could go and look up? Like, ah, the old Bronson Backbeat, or the Herbert Special, or the Doubletime Reverse Clutch-Kick?

afaik there are names for general styles, like rock, samba, bossa, whatever, and there are certain qualities that all beats of that variety will share. Once that's been established you kind of just have to get as descriptive as you want/need to be (snare on the quarters and bd after beats 3 and 4 to use your example). It seems like you're talking about variations on rock beats, though. Usually written notation or tabs are used for specific direction like that.

That being said drum set is not my area of expertise...if there actually are some specific beats with names I've never heard people use them. I too wish this was a thing.

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Popcorn
May 25, 2004

You're both fuckin' banned!
Well, drummers, you know what to do. Start agreeing on some names.

Gym Leader Barack
Oct 31, 2005

Grimey Drawer
There's the D-beat which underpins a lot of hardcore punk.



This guy.

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO

Popcorn posted:

I'm not a drummer. Do common rock patterns have names? For example, I've heard the pattern at 2:05 in this video in lots of songs (snare on every quarter-beat, kicks after the third and fourth):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iekm107fgqs&t=124s

I know there's a four-to-the-floor. Are there any more famous patterns with names I could go and look up? Like, ah, the old Bronson Backbeat, or the Herbert Special, or the Doubletime Reverse Clutch-Kick?

I love how consistent the drummer is with his beat placement. It's practically a perfect circle.

I guess that's the reason most people just tell the drummer to do whatever. I find it helpful if a non-drummer can specify a piece of music or drum fill where they like the drums.

Anyway, even though it's basic, I found Tommy Igoe's groove essentials poster to be at least somewhat helpful back when I didn't know poo poo about drums. Maybe it can help you. If you can't read pick out the ones that you're curious about and I can try to find examples, or you can google it.

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/groove_essentials/GrooveEssentials1.pdf

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/groove_essentials/GrooveEssentials2.pdf

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/groove_essentials/GrooveEssentials3.pdf

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/groove_essentials/GrooveEssentials4.pdf

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/groove_essentials/GrooveEssentials5.pdf

maybe this one too: http://www.vater.com/education/Vater_BeatPoster.pdf

Here's the purdie shuffle

Kodo fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Mar 16, 2014

Popcorn
May 25, 2004

You're both fuckin' banned!
Thanks, Kodo.

Kodo posted:

I love how consistent the drummer is with his beat placement. It's practically a perfect circle.

Can you expand on this? Also, are you talking about the drumming in the original song or this guy's particular timing?

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO

Popcorn posted:

Can you expand on this? Also, are you talking about the drumming in the original song or this guy's particular timing?

It's in reference to his stick control - the tip of his stick lands on practically the same spot with every stroke and you can see it on the snare beater head. That's the kind of control that gets you money as a recording artist.

teen phone cutie
Jun 18, 2012

last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself
You guys ever see this? I don't think I could play these. I need to feel something when playing, and this would totally throw my rhythm off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IleSbkcmEt0

Duke Chin
Jan 11, 2002

Roger That:
MILK CRATES INBOUND

:siren::siren::siren::siren:
- FUCK THE HABS -
Ahh good ol' Rodnel :unsmith:


Yeah they're pretty gimmicky and amusing but, same - I need that tactile response plus, y'know, something to rebound off of.

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO

Grump posted:

You guys ever see this? I don't think I could play these. I need to feel something when playing, and this would totally throw my rhythm off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IleSbkcmEt0

$100 says blue man group uses it in their next show

Gym Leader Barack
Oct 31, 2005

Grimey Drawer
There was some videogame during the height of the guitar hero/rockband frenzy that used a similar concept, waving sticks above sensors without any physical contact, and it was received as poorly as could be expected. I recall there might have also been something in Wii music that did similar stuff with a couple of wiimotes? I remember messing with it prior to owning any sort of kit and it was very limited, and then I spent some time loving around playing the guitar hero drum set through midi, and then I bought a roland and never looked back.

But yeah It'd just be a novelty, I'd prefer hitting my thighs or something at least rather than giving myself accelerated wrist-whiplash by constantly reversing the direction of the stick and absorbing every ounce of stick energy into my precious bones and ligaments.

edit: It was Power Gig. The guitar part was just as lovely as the drums.

Gym Leader Barack fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Mar 18, 2014

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO
Required viewing for beginners, intermediates, advanced, pros: http://youtu.be/_fiPB3pjkk4

I am forever grateful for discovering AdventureDrums

teen phone cutie
Jun 18, 2012

last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself
Yeah. That channel is pretty great. I still haven't been able to get over this beat. It makes me so happy every time I hear it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVpJZYUseSs&t=2m45s

Duke Chin
Jan 11, 2002

Roger That:
MILK CRATES INBOUND

:siren::siren::siren::siren:
- FUCK THE HABS -

Grump posted:

It makes me so happy every time I hear it

Speaking of "happy" HEY OH :rimshot: this guy made this really boring song about 115 times more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-ga4G6kxIU

moctopus
Nov 28, 2005

I will be receiving a drum kit for a temporary time period and the guy taking it to my house says I should get a thick rug to put it on so it doesn't move around or damage anything.

Is there a cheap solution to this? Should I just go to a music store and pickup a "drum rug"?

Just trying to save a few bucks.

Gym Leader Barack
Oct 31, 2005

Grimey Drawer
Any solid rug, mat or other floor covering will do. Check out hardware stores that sell outdoor mats, maybe even visit some carpet stores to see if they have any old offcuts they want to get rid of. Some of the proper drum rugs have superior grip on their bases which is better suited to polished floors than plain carpet is, but a rubber-backed outdoor mat should work just as well.

moctopus
Nov 28, 2005

RandomCheese posted:

Any solid rug, mat or other floor covering will do. Check out hardware stores that sell outdoor mats, maybe even visit some carpet stores to see if they have any old offcuts they want to get rid of. Some of the proper drum rugs have superior grip on their bases which is better suited to polished floors than plain carpet is, but a rubber-backed outdoor mat should work just as well.

Cool this is what I was looking for, thanks.

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.


Bought a £10 mat from a garage a while back, perfect size, rubber backed, brilliant. I only went in to grab a sandwich.

I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

I went to Home Depot a long time ago and bought a large carpet/rubber bottom outdoor mat for $10. Was big enough to cut in half and give to a friend. I fold it up and use it for outdoor gigs. For indoor use, a rug is really to prevent your bass drum legs and pedal spikes from damaging the floor or sliding around. Those drum rugs/mats that they sell at music stores are over priced and have a weighted/solid bar on one end to prevent your bass drum from sliding around.

CARRIERHASARRIVED
Aug 25, 2010

Does anyone have any tips for doing 4 over 3 stuff? I told my teacher I wanted to learn the various drum beats and stuff from around the world, so he's got me doing Bembe and Abakwa beats, which took me some time to get together with my other limbs; my teacher wanted me to do quarter notes in the foot to counter the triplets that my right hand was doing on the ride, and the same for Bembe, so the kick was always hitting the quarters as my hand was doing a triplet pattern. Now he's got me doing Bembe with my right hand on the ride and Abakwa with my left on the snare, and as a bonus challenge he said that I could try to do quarters with my right foot on the kick and follow the Abakwa pattern with my left foot.

I got the Bembe and Abakwa together in my hands, though it's a little shaky sometimes and now I want to try the full four limb engagement idea. Obviously I decided to work into it, doing Abakwa beat with right hand and foot with the left foot trying to follow the right hand. I tried for about an hour yesterday to get the two to agree and follow but I couldn't hear the beat in my head such that I would be able to keep the left foot going. I had something for a little bit but then I lost it. Basically does anyone have a method of thinking about this beat that I might be able to try?

For example of what I mean, Abakwa gave me a lot of trouble because I was only able to hear the kick as dotted quarters and thus the triplet pattern as regular eighth notes. It certainly worked but I was really angular in my playing of it. As soon as I got into the mindset of playing it as a jazz beat it was much easier to understand and it helped get into a groove.

Gym Leader Barack
Oct 31, 2005

Grimey Drawer
"Pass the goddamn butter" was how my drum teacher got me to learn 3/4 stuff. "Nice cup of tea" works for 3/2.

It's hard to really describe over text but just say it as you are doing the pattern and you'll get it.
Emphasise as "PASS the GODdamn BUTter"

timp
Sep 19, 2007

Everything is in my control
Lipstick Apathy

RandomCheese posted:

"Pass the goddamn butter" was how my drum teacher got me to learn 3/4 stuff. "Nice cup of tea" works for 3/2.

It's hard to really describe over text but just say it as you are doing the pattern and you'll get it.
Emphasise as "PASS the GODdamn BUTter"

:neckbeard: Glad I wasn't the only one!

Except I was taught ketchup instead of butter.

killerllamaman
Mar 20, 2006

RandomCheese posted:

"Pass the goddamn butter" was how my drum teacher got me to learn 3/4 stuff. "Nice cup of tea" works for 3/2.

It's hard to really describe over text but just say it as you are doing the pattern and you'll get it.
Emphasise as "PASS the GODdamn BUTter"

Not totally relevant to the question, but there's so many good ones to be discovered/created. One of my favorites, for 5 against 4: "SHE's PREGnant, DONT know WHAT to DO" (same deal, impossible to convey over text but if you say it over the pattern you'll hear it immediately)

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO
Can you read? Would make it infinitely easier if you can write out the rhythm and practice it slower than molasses. Also I don't fully understand what you're asking - whether it is learning to play both beats over each other or just the simple 4 over 3 pattern.

If you can't, I suppose the vocalizations help but whether it's just me or how people interpret it, there can be a tendency to confuse the swing/straight subdivision (again, easier to illustrate through notation).

Here are my suggestions:

1.) Find an audio example by someone demonstrating the 4 over 3 very slowly. I'm sure you can find those on YouTube easily. You could also ask your instructor to record an example for you. Modeling is always helpful.

2.) get a fancy metronome that let's you program polyrhythms. I have a .99$ one from the iTunes store that does everything a Dr. beat can do and then some. Very useful for practicing at a manageable tempo rather than trying to follow a pro who plays way too fast for your abilities.

3.) Ummm...profit?

4.) did I mention slow? These styles will not come easy and outside of what you would usually hear on modern pop radio. You're in it for the long game and to work on independence (or as Steve Smith would rather say, interdependence! gently caress you Steve, you're always right). Write it down however you can to ensure you're not playing mind games with yourself. Record yourself and verify.

Kodo fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Apr 11, 2014

teen phone cutie
Jun 18, 2012

last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself
If I said I had a bass drum pedal where the spring keeps slipping from the axel-thingy, would you guys be able to tell me what part I'm missing?

A few years ago, I remember losing some type of screw or something from the pedal, but I can't remember what it was or where it is supposed to be, and I can't tell just from looking at the pedal itself, but the spring keeps coming undone if I hit the pedal too fast, and it's really annoying.

The spring keeps coming off here:

teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Apr 14, 2014

I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

Normally that spring clips into a groove or "wheel" type piece on the pedal shaft but I guess that it can vary from pedal to pedal. Post a pic of it, maybe?

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO

I Might Be Adam posted:

Normally that spring clips into a groove or "wheel" type piece on the pedal shaft but I guess that it can vary from pedal to pedal. Post a pic of it, maybe?

Either that or when the foot pedal is depressed the spring tension is so low it slides off. You could try increasing tightening the spring tension to prevent slippage.

A Winner is Jew
Feb 14, 2008

by exmarx
So I hope you don't mind but I thought I would ask this thread a quick question about music theory in relation to drums.

Now I'm horrible when it comes to writing music and even worse at writing percussion parts to the point where I've only just now discovered that it's the snare that keeps time and in 4/4 the snare is typically hit on the down beat of 2 & 4. No joke, I've been playing music for 20 years and while I started to write about 10 years ago I quit after 2 because I was an idiot about theory, got frustrated and quit and only recently picked it up again but supplementing my knowledge with theory books and about 10x the money to throw at gear and it's really helped me get over a lot of the roadblocks I use to always run into.

However the problem I've discovered is that more often than not I find myself defaulting to writing things in signatures like 5/8, 7/8, 5/4 & 6/4, as opposed to 4/4 so my question is where does the snare go in those signatures and/or is there a book that explains how someone who would be mostly programming a drum machine (because my wife would actually kill me if I got a kit) how to work in those signatures.

e: Most of my drum programming knowledge comes from this book and while it has the best preface of any theory book it's information about programming in time that's not 4/4 is non-existent.

A Winner is Jew fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Apr 15, 2014

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO
Really not sure where to start with this question. If you're doing the mixed meter stuff, you just need to count and take note which numbered beat your snare lands on. Usually we break mixed meters into groups of two or three (5/8 -> 3+2 or 2+3, 7/8 -> 3+2+2 or 2+2+3, etc) with the snare beat coming in at the end of every grouping. Another way is to think of it as a truncated 4/4, so for instance in 7/8 the snare beats would be in the same place - it sounds like 4/4 but the downbeat sounds 'earlier' when the sequence repeats. But these examples are massive generalizations and really hard to describe purely through text and understanding of theory. Where the snare goes really depends on the music you are writing over. Can you provide an example?

As for the programming bit, any modern drum machine or software sequencer should be able to program an odd-time sequence, but that question is better left up to the gear thread or to someone who is familiar with this stuff. I know that almost every DAW worth its salt can designate odd-timed measures.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Yeah, what kind of music are you writing? Rock? Electronic? Putting a beat to something isn't really a music theory thing to me, it's just something that is intuitively felt. If that doesn't really make sense to you, then start paying specific attention to the drums when you're listening to music, and play along by patting your hands on your legs. One hand with the hi-hat, the other with the snare and tap your foot to the bass drum.

If you keep concentrating on listening to the drums, you should get a feel for how beats fit with the music.
Next, try coming up with a beat of your own in 4/4, still tapping on your legs. Once you've got it going, imagine an instrumental groove or melody in your head that could go with the beat you're tapping out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbbuaIA3Ds
For a specific example: This song is in 7/4 time. The snare drum in this song hits on beats 2, 4, and 6, which makes a 2-2-3 feel.

Listen to your own tunes, and tap out a beat that matches the feel. I don't think I'm very good at articulating myself when it comes to music, but I hope this helps you in some way.

A Winner is Jew
Feb 14, 2008

by exmarx


Thanks, I sort of got it from Kodo's post but the example that Gaffle used really helped me grasp the foundations of non 4/4 signature programming which was what I was looking for since I've probably listened to that track hundreds of times but never really analyzed it. In the past I've mostly just been writing over a beat that someone else made but I've been wanting to program my own stuff over my own work and drumming's never really "clicked" for me until the book I referenced pointed out that virtually every 4/4 song has a snare hit on 2&4 and now I can't un-hear that when I listen to a song in 4/4... but any other signature I never understood how to count it out so couldn't really process it.

I'm mostly into writing things with synths so EDM/Rock/Soundtrack/Soundscape stuff, but growing up I had a kick rear end dad who turned me onto progressive rock so that's probably why my brain defaults to odd signatures which isn't bad since I find that most four on the floor EDM stuff bores the poo poo out of me.

CARRIERHASARRIVED
Aug 25, 2010

Thanks to everyone who posted advice, even if I wasn't completely clear. I managed to get it together better after talking to my teacher, and

Kodo posted:

Can you read? Would make it infinitely easier if you can write out the rhythm and practice it slower than molasses. Also I don't fully understand what you're asking - whether it is learning to play both beats over each other or just the simple 4 over 3 pattern.

this definitely helped too. I had it written down and it made it much easier to understand.

I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

Have any of you experienced recurring stress/injury on a particular finger? For the years that I've played drums, other than just over playing soreness in my limbs, the worst thing I have ever experienced are blisters and the occasional popped blood vessel in my fingers. Lately, I've noticed on a few different occasions a soreness or almost bruising in my middle finger on my right hand. I'm guessing it's from stick vibration. I'm thinking it might be because I'm playing some new material and uncertainty about what I'm playing so I'm not super focused on finesse and instead, just banging out patterns. I'm also horribly out of practice even though I play regularly. Anyway, I'm not worried about my finger as it doesn't really hurt, it's just swollen and a bit purple, but I'm worried that my technique is influencing this or maybe it's the stick weight.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

That doesn't sound normal. Can you take a picture of your grip?

I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

Not at the moment but I know my grip lately has been a bit sloppy. This all kinda started after I got a new ride and started messing around with placement of my kit. I had some height issues with snare/floor tom and my ride that have made for some awkward playing. I feel like I've really had to over reach lately to get the bell of the ride. I don't know how much of this is mental or physical. You know that awkwardness when you first set your kit up after tearing it down and not everything feels quite right? That's what I've been dealing with for a few weeks.

I use 5A Oak and thought maybe the weight was too much so I started using 5A Hickory but I'm not noticing much of a difference. I use 7A Hickory for a lighter project that I play in and have little to no discomfort but when I play with my other heavier rock band, they just don't cut it which leads me to believe that I'm overplaying for volume with heavier sticks and my sloppy grip is causing the butt of the stick to impact my middle finger more than it should as it's slipping.

Kodo
Jul 20, 2003

THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO
The butt of the stick is hitting the back of your middle finger? So your pinky and ring finger aren't touching the stick at all?

I assume that is the case. There's nothing inherently wrong with that kind of grip per se, but you are not getting a lot of efficiency out of it. It might explain the bruising, as you are probably absorbing a lot of the shock from rim shots rather than letting the stick naturally reverberate (and giving a better sound overall). Placing the pivot point all the way back there does give you some mad power and volume but sacrifice control and rebound (I just did a quick self-test). And yeah, I can feel lots of force hitting my middle finger which might explain your bruising.

Also that grip and the intensity you play at necessitates keeping your hands in shape. You can't slack off since at this point it is more of a health consideration than it is a musical one. Blisters and blood vessels are OK under certain circumstances (learning new grips, new stick weights, etc) but with time you just don't get them anymore unless you're Zach Hill. Bruising is an even more dangerous sign, as one bad rim shot could cause serious pain and injury.

Like you said, slippage might be the culprit here. Sloppy hands will lead to choking up on the stick or the stick slipping out of your hand, thus forcing pressure on different parts of your hand that aren't necessarily geared towards dealing with these new pressures. Chop out on a pad some more and be relaxed. A stick flying out of your hand because it is relaxed is a better problem to have than a stick that never leaves because you are squeezing the life out of it.

Addendum: I get calluses on the 2nd digit of my middle finger and at the base of my pinky, ring, and middle finger. I chalk that up to hand positioning as I move around the drum and the occasionally slipping into a french grip, particularly when striking crash cymbals or getting overzealous on the ride. Back when I didn't practice as much as I should have these were prime spots to get blood blisters and occasional shots of pain. The practicing made that go away, not the calluses. Analyzing how I move around the set and what my hands are doing when moving around the different parts helped as well.

Kodo fucked around with this message at 04:16 on May 1, 2014

I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and confirms my assumptions. I'm more or less looking to see if anyone else has experienced that or had any insight into it. I'm going try relaxing a bit. The only time I'm gripping the stick that low is when I'm playing the ride and I start losing my grip. I really don't like gripping the stick that way and attempt to correct by choking up on the stick again. I realize how horribly inefficient it is. I think it's an over compensation for volume and a lack of being comfortable with what I'm playing that's leading me to focus on what to play next and less on how to play it, thus my grip slipping. It's just ugly technique on my part. I'm definitely slipping in my technique, accuracy, and control. I know I need to work on that.

As far as calluses go, I typically only form one on my right index finger where it connects to my hand from stick friction and those only form after I've taken a long break from playing.

scuz
Aug 29, 2003

You can't be angry ALL the time!




Fun Shoe
These cuties just popped up on craigslist, just as I was thinking I need a bigger kick. Darn you, craigslist!

Schlieren
Jan 7, 2005

LEZZZZZZZZZBIAN CRUSH

scuz posted:

These cuties just popped up on craigslist, just as I was thinking I need a bigger kick. Darn you, craigslist!

I want one of those huge but also really shallow kick drums because they look sweet

scuz
Aug 29, 2003

You can't be angry ALL the time!




Fun Shoe

Schlieren posted:

I want one of those huge but also really shallow kick drums because they look sweet

Oh you mean one of these. Yeah, they're pretty awesome.

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I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

scuz posted:

These cuties just popped up on craigslist, just as I was thinking I need a bigger kick. Darn you, craigslist!

Is it the angle of the photo or is that bass drum slightly misshaped?

I stupidly saw that Quest Love Ludwig mini kit the other day. Looks like a great little club kit for the price and I keep telling myself that I don't need it. Even if it would keep me from transporting my full size everywhere.

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