|
I Might Be Adam posted:Is it the angle of the photo or is that bass drum slightly misshaped? 
|
#
?
May 6, 2014 04:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:32 |
|
|
Well, another week has gone and I had another band rehearsal and my middle finger pain flared up again. Last night, I spent a lot of time going between different weight and stick sizes and concentrated on my grip and I'm still having an issue. I'm starting to think that it might be the height or angle at which I'm hitting the ride, especially the bell because that's where I'm noticing most of the impact affecting my finger. It's swollen again, but not nearly as bad as last week. I don't think I'll play much next week so maybe I'll have some time for it to properly heal but since I've never had this issue before, I'm starting to think the ride is the culprit. I just can't seem to comfortably grip the stick while playing the ride without taking a lot of impact to my finger. Also thinking about seeing a doctor to make sure I haven't hosed something up and am only making it worse.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
Could you post a picture of your kit? I'm super curious now, with all the discussion about it.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 06:35
|
|
|
I'll take a pic the next time I'm in my rehearsal space. It's a basic rack/floor/kick set up with a crash on the hi hat side, ride over the kick, and a crash to the right of the floor tom. I'm really tall so I've found myself usually playing over the kit instead of sitting low to the floor. I had some issues with my new ride and I'm still trying to find the right height. I had a problem before where my right hand was sometimes hitting my right knee while playing the ride but now I feel like the ride is too high. It's been frustrating to say the least. I also noticed that switching to ride I sometimes default to french grip. Maybe the angle of the ride, the weight of the ride, the grip and the stick type is causing this. Maybe I'm just getting really terrible at drums 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
I Might Be Adam posted:I'll take a pic the next time I'm in my rehearsal space. It's a basic rack/floor/kick set up with a crash on the hi hat side, ride over the kick, and a crash to the right of the floor tom. I'm really tall so I've found myself usually playing over the kit instead of sitting low to the floor. I had some issues with my new ride and I'm still trying to find the right height. I had a problem before where my right hand was sometimes hitting my right knee while playing the ride but now I feel like the ride is too high. It's been frustrating to say the least. I also noticed that switching to ride I sometimes default to french grip. Maybe the angle of the ride, the weight of the ride, the grip and the stick type is causing this. Maybe I'm just getting really terrible at drums Nah, it's just about setting up familiarity. Sticking with a consistent setup is important because you will find yourself sitting at someone else's drums, or experience that weird sensation of unfamiliarity with your own kit at a gig; and in those situations you'll want to be able to adjust things quickly to suit your body's preferences. I liked having my ride flat and crashing it every so often, but would end up smashing my hand against the floor tom rim. Aside from angling the floor tom a little lower, just time and practice helped make me more aware of how my hands move in relation to the drums' spatial position so that I could continue smashing away without making any major adjustments to the setup I desire. I think it's called proprioception or at least related to it? Anyway it's cool because it makes you feel like you're in the matrix or whatever. Did you play a show recently? I have anxiety issues so I always end up really overdoing it at gigs due to stage freight, sometimes generating soreness that doesn't happen in the practice room. Only thing I can really do is compensate by playing much more relaxed in rehearsal than I would on stage. Prep and good practice habits, all I can really do at this stage. Anyway if you're finger is as bruised as you say it is, no amount of adjustment is going to make that pain dissipate. You need to rest those hands and let them heal. Unfortunately that may not be practical or possible, in which case check google for how to take care of injuries like that (sprains, sore muscles, etc). Use ice, it helped me with my shoulders, but YMMV. Check with your health care professional.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
I play shows on average about once a month with an acoustic americana/rock guy and I use 7As for his stuff because it needs to be a bit tighter, quieter and controlled for some of the gig locations/venues. I have never experienced issues when playing his material. In my rock band, I'm playing harder/faster and with 5As and this finger issue really started after I got this new ride. I even bought a new DW short ride stand to get some better placement and versatility over my generic boom stand that I've been using for years. I'm going to gently caress around in my practice space and try to fix it. If all else fails, my buddy and old drum teacher said he'd come out and take a look at my kit and grip and try to give me some pointers. Maybe just having another drummer notice something I'm doing wrong will help. This is what my setup looked like when I first got the new Ludwigs back in 2010:  That K crash ride is now to the right of the floor tom as a secondary crash and I got rid of the splash. I don't know what's happened in the last 4 years to give me problems as it's generally the same setup aside from some angle placement changes. Thanks for all the feedback though. I don't have a gig until next weekend but luckily it's that easy light rock stuff so I hopefully won't have anymore soreness.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
So I was getting, more or less, exactly what you described but on my left hand on the inside of the second knuckle of my middle finger. From the best I could tell it was from big snare down beats, german grip, over 15-19 years or so. I play with the snare fairly high and a lot of rim. If I hold the two fingers up, tip to tip (like I'm double flipping someone off) you can see that the knuckle is still kind of swollen or calcium built up or something. I honestly don't know how or why it happened but it definitely started getting sore "on the inside" but not unmanageable.  Fortunately I've since retired from that whole be-in-a-band thing and the pain went away instantly. The knuckle is still larger? different? But the pain is gone. Of course, related to that, I also don't play drums quite as much anymore so obviously that's why the ache and tenderness has subsided. So, hmm, I guess that really doesn't help you at all and is mere anecdotal commiseration?  Looking at your set up it really shouldn't be causing you too much of an issue. I mean, that's pretty much how I usually park my ride and I usually use big clanky bell-centric rides (22" A Custom for YEARS, 22" Meinl Soundcaster Fusion the last year and that was it WAY thicker) and never, ever had a problem with my right side joints.Maybe I missed it but, what ride exactly is it that's been the culprit? I mean, that really shouldn't even matter. Hell the old zildjian chunk'o'metal Earth Ride or 24" Alpha Rock Ride shouldn't matter as long as you're not death-gripping your sticks. That is the only thing, mechanically, that I could think would be the culprit at this point; your hand eating up too much of the vibration of stick-on-tin. Weird. Quick question: what brand of stick are you primarily using?
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
Yeah I want to know about the sticks as well, when I used to use a thinner 5a I got all sorts of weird pains in my fingers. I noticed a lot more vibration in the wood as I was hitting the kit, I guess the thinner diameter of the stick allows more flex of the wood and a stronger transfer of energy from one end of the stick to another, but it feels similar to holding a lawnmower handle or something similarly buzzy for a while. Instead of my fingers absorbing the energy of a single hit they are having to deal with a buzz of several short sharp hits for every strike. I moved to a thicker 2B stick after that which noticeably lessened the vibrations and made my hands feel much better, but now I am back down to a thinner and lighter stick but they are the metal and plastic Ahead sticks an there is practically no vibration transfer from tip to handle and are very smooth to play. I put a double layer of grip tape on also for added comfort and this brought the thickness back up closer to the 2B so they don't feel tiny in my hands.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 06:27
|
|
|
I'm using Pro Mark 5A Oak and 7A hickory. I bought a couple pairs of 5A Hickory because they are supposed to be lighter but they feel super clunky and heavy in my hands. I went from a 20" K Crash Ride to a 22" K Ride. There is a definite difference in feel between the two. I'm tearing down my setup tomorrow and spending some time getting it comfortable. Hopefully feeling comfortable on the kit will alleviate further issues. I know a lot of this is mental.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 07:39
|
|
|
Weird, I've used a 20K and 22K for years (as crashes mostly, laff) and never ever had a problem. Those have always actually felt kinda "soft". Been using 5Bn's since I think the first show I ever played - but, same: using the ProMark Hickory's and they definitely feel clunky. All I can say is start at the root: your grip. Then your set up. Then try a different brand of stick. But if you're not comfortable on the kit - dude, seriously, fix that first, foremost and fast. Ergonomics got a long way.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 07:52
|
|
|
If anyone is interested, I've either concentrated on my grip, allowed my finger injury to heal, or have found that the culprit is my ride stand. This new DW ride stand comes with an adjustable piece where the cymbal sits to allow you to adjust how close the cymbal sits to the top felt fastener, basically giving more/less movement when the cymbal is played. I may have been playing the cymbal a bit too tight which was causing more force to return upon striking the cymbal. I've loosened it up quite a bit to give it more movement and more cymbal wash since it's able to ring out more which is probably making me play it a bit softer now that I'm getting more volume. It's weird what a new piece of hardware can do to completely jack up your playing. Here is my current arrangement. 
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
http://youtu.be/osFBNLA7woY ride the waves sexier video: http://youtu.be/kpoanOlb3-w Kodo fucked around with this message at 04:48 on May 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 02:09
|
|
|
Ahhh ol' Mangini before his hair extension(s).  edit: pluralized. Duke Chin fucked around with this message at 02:43 on May 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 02:38
|
|
|
Can anyone tell me who makes the tom and beneath-ride mic clamps shown in this picture that are mounted to the drum stand hardware, and where I might purchase such items?
XYZAB fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jun 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2014 05:45
|
|
|
This is an odd request, but if you know any female drummers in Chicago could you get me in touch with them? A thing I volunteer for needs some helping hands. PM me or cortelus@gmail.com Thanks 
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2014 07:28
|
|
|
Handen posted:Can anyone tell me who makes the tom and beneath-ride mic clamps shown in this picture that are mounted to the drum stand hardware, and where I might purchase such items? Ha I haven't seen those types of mic clamps in yeaaaaaaaaaaaaars. Those are old as poo poo, can't remember the name off of the top of my head (going googling in a sec) and there are bunches of other just-as-good options around as well. But it's seriously annoying me that I can't remember what these are since I've used them a ton of times over the years - I just haven't seen them much in the last 5 or so years of touring. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2014 01:01
|
|
|
I posted this in the home recording thread, but figured y'all might be able to answer my question too. I'm looking to record myself practicing on drums, in multiple locations, for as cheap as possible and with as little setup as possible, and hopefully without having to futz with anything afterward. Last night I tried using a recording app on my phone in a tiny room, and the ride and crash were fantastic, the hi hat could be a bit louder (probably just the fact that my body was blocking it), and the drums themselves were awful and distorted. Is it possible to do what I want with just a phone? What are some alternatives? Thanks in advance!
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 15:37
|
|
|
Jazz Marimba posted:I posted this in the home recording thread, but figured y'all might be able to answer my question too. I'm just speculating here because I've never tried it with a phone before, but you might just try plugging in some mics to the input jack and see if any of them are to your liking. Then it's just down to placement of the mic on stage. I bet you can even find a decent EQ app too if you wanted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 03:55
|
|
|
Don't forget that most 1/8 inch jacks for phone recording require the 3 ring connector. There is a site on the web that sells XLR to 1/8" cables that work with phones. Mine was pretty good until it straight up quit working. I would just plug an SM 57 into it and place it in a corner and record band rehearsals. A lot better than letting the phone's mic record because all you would get is a lot of clipping from the hi hats.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 04:57
|
|
|
I was wondering what all of your practice routines look like, and if you could give me tips on how to organize mine? Right now mine is pretty unstructured and I don't write anything down. Most of the time I'll start with Stick Control over the bossa foot ostinato, and then start working on the latest thing I've been having difficulty with. The main books I'm working out of at the moment are Art of Bop Drumming, New Breed, and Odd Feelings. I'm also trying to spend some time with a book on chart reading, and one on developing soloing ideas. I usually have at least two hours a day to practice, and at least once a week I'll have the whole day (8+ hours). Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
Sheesh, I wish I ever had a regimented practice routine. Ever since retiring from the whole be-in-a-band thing late last year it's pretty much:
That and record songs for buddies at home is about it these days. I still like playing, for sure, I've just never, in all my years, had dedicated studying and practice schedules (outside of band practices). I probably should have though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2014 01:51
|
|
|
Jazz Marimba posted:I was wondering what all of your practice routines look like, and if you could give me tips on how to organize mine? I usually do a combination of different exercises, but generally try to focus on those things I feel are lacking in my playing (time, tempo, foot technique, EVERYTHING I SUCK AT EVERYTHING). 1.) I'll often start with Alan Dawson's rudimental ritual. I found it a bitch to figure out at first, but gets easier over time. I like to change up the hi-hat/kick pattern to suit whatever music I'm playing. I'll also play around with the dynamics and just repeat those lines I have trouble with. 2.) I like to take individuals grooves from songs I'm working on as individual exercises. Usually straight repeats for 5 min per groove, adjusting tempo as needed or to recalibrate. Works better if you're doing covers, so you can play beats you may not necessarily be comfortable with. 3.) Wing it. I know this isn't recommended but sometimes I'll come up with an exercise on the fly. Sometimes it works, but I find it works better when you're trying to figure out a particularly difficult groove and you break it down into it's constituent parts and use those parts as individual exercises as you build your way up to the full exercise. But, YMMV. Stick control exercises I do all on practice pad, I'd rather work on the pad rather than spend that time on the set so that I can focus more on independence exercises/song learning. Whatever exercise I'm doing though, I try to make sure that it is really pushing me in some direction, not just doing warm-ups for an hour.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2014 03:57
|
|
|
I've been slack as hell on the drum kit recently because I've been doing a lot more singing and guitar practice as well as rock and electronic music production so it's tricky to find the time to fit in a lot of drums. I've taken to spending 20 mins per day on the kit as soon as I get home from work and using this drum time as a warmup before a workout, and as prettymuch all I practice is punk beats between 140 and 180 BPM this gets me warm really effectively. I spend half the time just working on accuracy at a slow tempo then gradually increase until I go full speed for the last 10 mins. About once a week I spend half hour or so on the practice pad while watching our nightly episode of whatever series we are binging through to get some rudimental work in, but that timeslot has been largely overtaken by scalar and other technique excercises on guitar and bass. At this point I'm happy to just become really good at a handful of drum aspects as opposed to being a swiss army knife of drum skills, and slowing down the punk stuff allows me to cover the majority of rock drumming anyway. Edit: I stopped going to drum lessons at the beginning of this year because I felt I wasn't taking away $25 worth of instruction every week, and the internet has an answer to prettymuch any drum question I could ever have.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2014 05:46
|
|
|
quote:I was wondering what all of your practice routines look like, and if you could give me tips on how to organize mine? I never particularly succeeded with trying to keep a set routine for practicing over a long period of time, if that works for you that's definitely super efficient but that just never quite gelled with me. I still managed to get some solid periods of 6-8 hours of playing a day, but if I tried to be super regimented I couldn't sustain it, that's only really manageable for me if I'm relaxed, enjoying it, and feel like I'm making progress the whole time. Still was extremely focused when I was working on something, but I didn't let it bother me if I was in a different place working at different times every day, as long as I was working on it. I tend mold the process to the goal rather than making a goal of a good process - it helps to have external deadlines, but setting goals for yourself (that really push it) can be super useful. They should be specific, more "I'm gonna be able to play these 4 bars from this book as slow as necessary 10 times in a row without loving up" than "I'm gonna be able to swing at 300bpm next week". As your goals change, the way you spend your time can change. I find lately less and less of my time is spent at the drumset, even though I have one in my apartment I can play anytime - I don't exactly not want to play the drums, but I can work out rhythmic ideas just as well at my desk as on a drumset. The important thing is that you focus on some task that will get you to your goal (usually involving doing something that you can't do over and over until you can do it) and throw enough hours at it that it works. Kodo posted:
I can't imagine why someone wouldn't recommend it - this is the best poo poo. If you want to play any improvised music (and jazz definitely involves a lot of improvisation), free-form practice and consciously shedding "pure" improvisation are pretty important. Books and exercises are really useful for getting your chops up and getting the common "vocabulary" of whatever style you're learning under your belt, but listening, playing along with records, and just playing (by yourself and especially with others) are really important to learning how to improvise confidently & find a "voice" or whatever it is that's makes good improvisers not boring.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 21:28
|
|
|
killerllamaman posted:I can't imagine why someone wouldn't recommend it - this is the best poo poo. If you want to play any improvised music (and jazz definitely involves a lot of improvisation), free-form practice and consciously shedding "pure" improvisation are pretty important. Books and exercises are really useful for getting your chops up and getting the common "vocabulary" of whatever style you're learning under your belt, but listening, playing along with records, and just playing (by yourself and especially with others) are really important to learning how to improvise confidently & find a "voice" or whatever it is that's makes good improvisers not boring. I agree with what you say, I suppose I mean to say that 'winging it' or coming up with ideas naturally is a subconscious decision so you can't actively do it unless you're already playing something else. Ideas pop up at any given time, but to just sit there and jam until one does discover something is just one tool in the toolshed when trying to come up with ideas; and while fun it may not be the most effective practicing strategy under certain time constraints or playing levels. I feel like this topic can easily go on a lot of philosophical tangents about the music making process, so I'd like to leave that argument elsewhere and just reiterate that from my own experience and from the few teachers I had that jamming was not the most constructive use of my time for these reasons. My whole bent is if you aren't working on something you can't do, then it wholly eliminates the point of practicing. Exercises are easy to define and you can build off them as you work on them, whereas jamming and exploring should also have specific parameters even if they aren't well defined so that they don't end up reinforcing pre-existing habits i.e. "Today I'm going to play everything on rims" as opposed to "I'm going to jam for two hours." Hence my disclaimer of not recommended, UNLESS you do it properly and not just rock out on some cool jamz for a couple hours.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2014 01:33
|
|
|
Kodo posted:I agree with what you say, I suppose I mean to say that 'winging it' or coming up with ideas naturally is a subconscious decision so you can't actively do it unless you're already playing something else. Ideas pop up at any given time, but to just sit there and jam until one does discover something is just one tool in the toolshed when trying to come up with ideas; and while fun it may not be the most effective practicing strategy under certain time constraints or playing levels. I feel like this topic can easily go on a lot of philosophical tangents about the music making process, so I'd like to leave that argument elsewhere and just reiterate that from my own experience and from the few teachers I had that jamming was not the most constructive use of my time for these reasons. Yeah, totally agreed, perhaps a wholehearted recommendation of "winging it" was a bit overboard. I meant more the realm of consciously practicing improvisation than jamming. Hope I'm not getting into excessively philosophical territory but I think, especially within the context of jazz drumming (inferred from the Art of Bop Drumming in the original question), this stuff is pretty practical. It's also much less useful for getting better at anything other than improvisation itself, so if you're trying to get your co-ordination or polyrhythms together or trying to get your rudimental chops up, this won't help much, but it can help you get to applications and getting a serious feel down for stuff that is so far only technically "playable". That said, I draw a pretty big distinction between jamming and improvising (I think this is where the doing it properly thing comes in). I agree with that jamming is not super productive. But sitting down to "jam" is a lot different from sitting down to attempt a 20 minute coherent improvisation with a beginning, middle, and end and has cohesion and development or whatever you want to aim for, and I've found the latter to be an incredibly valuable method of focused practice (and it requires zero chops, I try to approach it with its own goals that are entirely independent of any technical goals). Your point about constraints is also super important, you won't actually get better at improvising if you only do it the way that comes naturally, you have to find every way you possibly can to force yourself to do things somehow other than the way you would by default. You may or may not do this when you're improvising in a performance, but it will make you much more aware of all the options for how you can go about developing your improvisation regardless. I think improvisation is a skill that you can practice through repetition/hours invested just like rudiments or chart reading, and if you want to play jazz it's just as important to practice improvising as it is to practice your technical stuff (but you need to practice that too, of course). It all still really comes down to whether whatever you're spending your time on is the most efficient way to reach your goals.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2014 07:57
|
|
|
So I've been playing for nearly 30 years. In the last 5 or 6 years I took a break from playing because I was burned out with the band I was in and wanted to learn some new instruments. I'd like to get back into playing but the house I live in now isn't really drum friendly. I tend to play kinda loud and I don't want to be that guy in the subdivision. I've had a look around at a few electronic kits and they seem ok but I was wondering if anyone here at any experience.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2014 15:55
|
|
|
Bonzo posted:So I've been playing for nearly 30 years. In the last 5 or 6 years I took a break from playing because I was burned out with the band I was in and wanted to learn some new instruments. My experience with electronic kits is that they are less than desirable for live performance but totally fine if you want to just play in your house to some songs or whatever. I used to play on an electronic kit at a church gig and even with the kit being routed through a laptop with BFD running, it just wasn't nearly close to the feel/sound of an acoustic kit. It wasn't the best electronic kit but in order to get something comparable, you're looking at Roland V-Drums and they get quite expensive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2014 16:06
|
|
|
Bonzo posted:So I've been playing for nearly 30 years. In the last 5 or 6 years I took a break from playing because I was burned out with the band I was in and wanted to learn some new instruments. So I have the old TD-20 kit from when I was apartment living and two acoustic kits at home and while I will always, always prefer to play the acoustic kit, the roland set was nice to have around when I had to be quiet. Just note that they are TERRIBLY overpriced (rolaaaaaaand  ). That being said, I also can't stand the kits that have the solid rubber pads as "drums". Mesh drums all the way. Did you have any specific questions about 'em?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2014 01:56
|
|
|
I have a TD-9 and totally agree that mesh pads are the way to go, rubber ones just feel like a practice pad and are fairly loud in themselves. I do miss the punch in the chest of an actual snare drum but having the ability to play drums at midnight far outweighs the missing feeling. A great thing about e-drums is that you can actually hear them clearly while playing, not filtered through a set of cans or earplugs unless you are direct monitoring through a bunch of mics. Being able to change the tone of the kit completely at the push of a button is great for inspiration, the different sounds can send you in a completely different direction. I'll probably get an acoustic kit later on when I can build a proper soundproofed drum room but I'll always own an e-kit for the flexibility and ease of use in recording. The only part of my TD-9 that sticks out as "not a drum kit" while playing is the hi-hat because I just have the static hat cymbal and detached pedal, but a lot of the better models have a moving had on a proper hat stand if that worries you. it's still fine when playing, but it is a bit different to an acoustic kit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2014 05:27
|
|
|
Thanks for the comments so far. I've played on a few kits in store and found the mesh heads felt much better. The hard rubber ones make me think I'll end up with some kind of stress injury because they don't have the same give as a drum head. One function that will be essential is plugging in my phone or running it through a Mac book so I can play along with MP3s or Songza and still hear my playing along with the music in my headphones. I'm also curious about how cymbals are handled. The hi hat would take some getting used to but there doesn't seem to be any option to get the effect of playing the bell or base of a ride cymbal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2014 14:09
|
|
|
The CY-12R on my kit is 3 zone so you can play bell, centre and edge the same as you would on a normal ride. Cymbals that say 2 zone give you centre and edge and will be used for most crashes and hats, and only the cheapest of the cheap kits have single zone cymbals or pads. All of the cymbals are chokeable when you pinch them at the front, the motion is almost identical to a regular cymbal choke, I think this is pretty standard on most mid to high range cymbals. Every e-kit brain I have seen has an AUX pass through so connecting your phone or macbook won't be a problem, and a lot even have the ability to play wav and mp3s from the unit itself. I think some of the newer ones can even do on the fly time-stretching but mine can't, I had to convert the files into various speeds before copying to the usb stick. Yamaha kits are worth checking out, when it comes to quality e-drums the market is dominated by them and Roland. Some Yamaha pads don't use mesh and have a textured silicone surface which is meant to be pretty close to the feel of a real skin but I have not used one before so can't confirm this. The standard rubber ones on the lower end kits aren't terrible, they have a fair amount of give so it's unlikely you will hurt yourself but they do feel a lot more like a practice pad than a snare so it can be distracting, and they can make a loud thwock noise when hit that can sometimes carry between rooms. Mesh ones still make an audible noise but it doesn't really carry that far. The cymbals are a lot less forgiving in their give but are still fine to play on for hours on end, they can't be any worse than their metal counterparts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2014 14:38
|
|
|
Is there any shot of my $700 Pearl Forum Series set sounding good in a uncarpeted basement? I'm in the middle of turning my drumset, taking advice from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udooOap4m2c and I can't get these things to lose the overtones. In fact, I've never gotten them to sound good because I've only ever kept my set in house basements over the years. I haven't put tape on the heads yet, but I'd like to know if anyone else has had serious problems getting rid of overtones while playing in a really echo-y part of their house.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2014 23:38
|
|
|
Grump posted:I haven't put tape on the heads yet, but I'd like to know if anyone else has had serious problems getting rid of overtones while playing in a really echo-y part of their house. Studio rings, moon gel, or as a last resort tape can work too. Next step would be new heads, since they might be in bad shape. I'd say practice tuning too, but heavily used heads make it almost impossible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
Grump posted:Is there any shot of my $700 Pearl Forum Series set sounding good in a uncarpeted basement? Change your heads, carpet the room; buy a new drumset? Seriously though, if you're playing in a concrete box see what you can do to have... less of that. All that stuff nukes the low end and bounces frequencies around everywhere. In your standard "band" set up, nothing is effected more by the room you're playing in than the drums. But, yeah, those Forums are gonna be tone-happy anyway. Rehead and gel/tape up.Bonzo posted:I'm also curious about how cymbals are handled. The hi hat would take some getting used to but there doesn't seem to be any option to get the effect of playing the bell or base of a ride cymbal. The ride cymbals (CY-15R's) on the upper end rolands have three zones: Edge body and bell - that's why there is two cables running to it. Crashes have two zones, Edge and bow. Hi hats have three and sensitivity for how hard you're compressing them - also w/ two separate cables running to it. I can't speak for the low end models though cause I haven't played any of those in forever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
Grump posted:Is there any shot of my $700 Pearl Forum Series set sounding good in a uncarpeted basement? Warning--big nerdpost on tuning overtones incoming. I know a lot of people do have very good reasons for muffling their drums and it sounds great, and I do it too if that's the vibe I need, but if getting rid of them doesn't work, there may be another way! (credentials: lived in and played drums every day in a concrete basement while going to music school. Not recommended, but if that's where your drums are that's where your drums are!) I think you probably can get those to sound really good (I have a very broad taste in tunings, but I have encountered very few drumsets I couldn't do something pretty cool with - I love kid's drumsets), but you're not going to get them to sound like that video when you're playing them in any room, let alone a basement. Those drums are all close-mic'd, so you hear each individual drum, unimpeded by the sounds around it, later mixed to the proper volume. That's not how drum sounds work when you're in a room with them - the drums and cymbals are all competing with each-other and any other instruments that are playing for sonic space and covering up each-other's overtones. I'm basically a huge advocate for overtones (they're literally how we tell the difference between instruments and what determines what's consonant and what's dissonant- read up on them if you don't know how they work!) and think it's usually better to try to make the overtones sound good in the room they're in than try to eliminate them. Being technical, if you got rid of all the overtones you wouldn't hear much of a sound anyway. A snare that rings for a few seconds by itself will sound crisp and full when it's playing with a ride cymbal, bass drum, guitar, bass, and wailing singer or whatever. Because of that, unless you have microphones really close to your drums that are going to either a recording or a PA system, you usually don't actually want your drums to sound like that when you're in the room with them. I think because we hear drums 90% of the time on recordings people tend to want their drums to sound like a great recording while they're playing them, but if you're in a room with a great drum take being recorded and then listen to it on the record, the drums sound REALLY GOOD both on the record and in the room, but not at all the same. Most recordings (quite possibly even the video you posted has some of this, at the very least it's a nice room with acoustic treatment and nice microphones) have the drums gated to reduce the ringing, limited, compressed, equalized to bring out the best overtones, and mixed to be exactly the right volume, and all of that is totally independent of what the drums sound like in the room. A concrete basement will amplify a lot of overtones that you may not want, and definitely not the same overtones that most recordings highlight, but that doesn't mean your drums have to sound bad just because you can't get rid of the overtones. There are a ton of different approaches to tuning, but really the only way to know if you're doing it right is to listen really closely and see if you like the overtones that come out when you're playing in situations you actually play in. You don't need to worry about whether it rings longer than you expect it to, just pay attention to whether the overtones sound good when it does. Basically, if you're trying to make your drums sound like recordings of drums, whether they're records or youtube videos, you'll spin your wheels for a long time. A totally unique tuning that brings out the best qualities of your drums and the space you're playing in is what you want to strive for, not a perfect match of somebody else's tuning for their drums and their space. If you genuinely think it sounds good, and you play it confidently, it will almost certainly sound good to everyone listening too, and I think the most fundamental way to get that confidence is trying every tuning you can possibly come up with back to back until you start to have opinions on which options are better/worse than which other options. It does help to hear other excellent tunings in person to learn from, but I don't know a good way to learn how other people's drum tunings sound in person than to just try to hang out with drummers and hear their kits, or go to shows and try to stand near the stage when they're setting up before they turn the mics on. If it's a bar or something you can probably just ask the drummer about their tuning. Pretty much every drummer likes talking about drums. If you can't find other well-tuned drumsets to hear, just, like, love your drums for who they are and try to bring out the best in them, don't try to mold them to be like other drummers' drums who were born in craftsmen's workshops and raised in lavish recording studios. Sidenote - I don't know if this is "accepted practice" or whatever, but while it's usually good to have a head mostly in tune with itself, I find that having the head slightly (or even significantly) out of tune with itself can help selectively change the overtones that are produced. It's not precise or anything, but it gives more options. EDIT: One more sidenote - When I play shows on less-than-stellar gear I sometimes tighten both heads of the snare drum as tight as I can get comfortably get them with a drum key and tune from there, and that's gotten me many compliments on snare sound. Sometimes the dumbest way is the best way (best to ask permission before attempting the dumbest way on someone else's gear though). killerllamaman fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jul 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2014 19:36
|
|
|
I had a few questions hoping you guys could help me with. I even bolded the important bits for you skimmers. First off I seem to have issues with my bass drum. It isn't very loud if I flat-foot the pedal, so I have to (I don't know the name of this technique if there is one) bring my whole leg up and come down with my foot also pushing down on the pedal to make a decent audible sound. Is this because my seating situation is bad (I'm using a lovely stool that isn't adjustable and I'm 6' 2" so I might not be at an ideal height), or because of my smaller than normal bass drum (Pearl Rhythm Traveler, only 20" x 8"), or something else? Well I guess that touched on my second issue, how should I play my pedal? Like I said I used to flat foot practice on the floor before I had a kit, but if I try that with my bass drum it's just way too quiet (disclaimer: my definition of flat foot technique is that my heel doesn't leave the pedal, instead it acts as a pivot and the ball of my foot is what goes up and down, using mainly my calf muscle as the motor, so I'm probably wrong). Should my feet sort of be floating just above the pedal, or what? When I sit down on my terrible stool (that isn't adjustable) my thighs are not parallel with the ground. They're going slightly up, which makes me think the stool is too short. Lastly, my shittacular kit brass cymbals are very bent out of shape already after only 6 months or so of sporadic use. Is brass worse for strength and durability than bronze? I wouldn't want to shell out big money for a nice set of cymbals only to have them warped after a similar amount of time. Does this mean I'm also hitting them incorrectly? I usually try to hit the crash with the shaft of the stick, not the tip. KiddieGrinder fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Sep 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2014 12:25
|
|
|
KiddieGrinder posted:I had a few questions hoping you guys could help me with. I even bolded the important bits for you skimmers. You're basically spot on about a lot of stuff already minus the terminology. Which is stupid simple. Keeping your heel on the pedal and pivoting on it is called "heel down", floating above your pedals with just the toes touching is "heel up", and both are totally valid & common. Because you're using smaller muscles, heel down gives you more control in some ways at the expense of power. If you feel like your bass drum isn't loud enough, I would definitely recommend playing heel up like you're doing, and don't be afraid to just practice playing your bassdrum loud (and soft and loud again) by itself for extended periods of time to build up leg strength and control. That bass drum is pretty small, so you might have to play the bass drum with a little extra force, or dial back on your hands a bit compared to a kit with a full-sized kick to bring it all into balance. Tuning can also make a huge difference in volume, if laying into the drum still doesn't make it loud, you might adjust the tuning. As for seat height, your thighs should probably not be angled up - plenty of people sit like that and I'm sure they have their reasons, but as far as I know for ergonomic purposes you want your seat high enough that your thighs are angled slightly downwards, and your snare high enough that your hands are not hitting your legs when you play it. Balance is a pretty important consideration with seat height, especially if you're playing heel up and your feet are hovering (but you never really want to use your legs to support yourself because then they can't focus on playing). A good test (for whenever you do get to change up what your sitting on) is too sit with your feet just over but not touching the pedals and then wave your arms in the air like a madman, or try out some gospelchops licks with your feet off the ground or whatever you can think of to get your torso moving and your mind thinking about other stuff - if you fall over or have to adjust your balance regularly, you either need to adjust your seat height or posture. quote:Lastly, my shittacular kit brass cymbals are very bent out of shape already after only 6 months or so of sporadic use. Is brass worse for strength and durability than bronze? I wouldn't want to shell out big money for a nice set of cymbals only to have them warped after a similar amount of time. Does this mean I'm also hitting them incorrectly? I usually try to hit the crash with the shaft of the stick, not the tip. This is common with really cheap cymbals, not really anything to worry about and well-made bronze cymbals are unlikely to warp unless you are hitting them with a hammer (but they might crack instead). For technique, the important things are: 1.) make sure your stick is not hitting the edge of the cymbal at anything close to a right angle, you want it to be pretty flat relative to the cymbal so you get some surface area contact. 2.) Make sure you are playing "off" the cymbal not "through it". http://zildjian.com/education/getting-started/basic-techniques/drumset describes it as a glancing blow, but I'm not quite sure that's the right word for doing it when you're playing loud but that's the general idea. A lot of players use a sweeping motion to achieve this, I tend to focus on relaxation more than anything so the stick rebounds almost as if I were hitting a drum. This will still bend your cheap cymbals though and there's nothing you can do about that other than play quiet, so definitely check your technique but don't worry too much about whether it's making a noticeable difference to these cymbals or not. Unrelated, I present the drum thread with a sick gnarly bass drop from hell, in which the bass is a drum (I think!): http://youtu.be/igPOYCzH77w
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2014 14:35
|
|
|
Thanks a lot! That really helps. Something else I neglected to mention is my snare is also below my thighs, so much so that I can rest the stick on my thigh and pivot it to hit the snare. Something also that happens when I play (not sure the terminology again) off hits on the snare, like when they aren't in time with the hi-hats? My arms sometimes make contact and it messes everything up. So I guess I should adjust my playing height and also adjust the snare and hi-hats to match, because I assume that's not meant to happen. Another problem is I use earplugs for protection, but that means (since I'm not using headphones) I have to turn my speakers up ridiculously loud so I can hear the music. I guess that drowns out the bass drum even more than it already is, because of its size. I guess I should learn to play with headphones instead. That 'how to play cymbals' link is worrying, because I've always struck the edge of them! My sticks even have little cut mark notches in them from it, it's that bad.  But I do always use the shoulder of the stick, so I guess that's something good. (Learning those technical words!)Thanks again for the help!
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:32 |
|
|
Glad it helped! Googling around idly I found http://www.drummagazine.com/features/post/how-to-set-up-your-drums which has some pictures that might help visualize the distances and heights of everything relative to a human playing them. If you are having trouble not hitting the edges of cymbals, they might either be too high or need to be titled towards you a little bit. Notches in your stick are to be expected, but for me they almost always come from either the hihat or the snare drum rim, so don't worry too much about tearing up your sticks, just something to be aware of. I have never found a good way to play along to recordings on speakers either, headphones are the way to go.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2014 19:58
|
|