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  • Locked thread
DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder
i'm not really a programmer but unfortunately, i do a lot of programming. most of the programming i do would have been better off getting outsourced to india.

i can't really post in serious programming threads because i'll basically jsut get made fun of, which is fine, but usually i'll get made fun of and my question won't get answered. so here is a :siren:SAFE SPACE:siren: for bad programmers to hang out and try to get better at stuff.


i'll start this off with a question about preventing code from getting executed asynchronously. when does code get executed asynchronously? i always kinda figured that most code gets executed in a line, but it seems like when i call other functions, or espescially when i call some shell command, it won't actually block the thread and i'll end up with things happening at the same time when they really shouldn't be. i think they call this a race condition??

any pro tips?

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Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you
kill others then yourself

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder

horse mans posted:

kill others then yourself

umm did you not see the "SAFE SPACE" siren? I thought it made it pretty clear

GameCube
Nov 21, 2006

chumpchous posted:

i'll start this off with a question about preventing code from getting executed asynchronously. when does code get executed asynchronously? i always kinda figured that most code gets executed in a line, but it seems like when i call other functions, or espescially when i call some shell command, it won't actually block the thread and i'll end up with things happening at the same time when they really shouldn't be. i think they call this a race condition??

you're gonna need to be way more specific

Socracheese
Oct 20, 2008

phew, finally a thread just for me :o:

BONGHITZ
Jan 1, 1970

i name every variable x

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you
op here's som code i wrote for you hth

Python code:
if programmer.needs('safe space'):
  programmer.threads.gas()
  programmer.permaban()
  programmer.kill()

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003
i once made some easyUO scripts that set targets across the party and synced our explo/ebolt dumps perfectly and also used a pixelscan to drop a heal on a target before their client updated their health - that was p0retty kewl

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you
that is pretty cool smythe i like hacks and poo poo for games because it feels like you're breaking the rules of the /matrix/

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




my programming experience includes pascal in highschool, then some java and c++ in college before i decided there was no way i could write code for 10 hours a day and not kill myself so i switched from a CS major to an IT major and never looked back

no programming questions, sorry op

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003

I’d make eye contact with him and fart. I did it all the time for like two years. I didn’t even know his full name, just heard that his coworkers thought he was a nut for complaining about “the guy who would fart on me in the break room”

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

my programming experience includes pascal in highschool, then some java and c++ in college before i decided there was no way i could write code for 10 hours a day and not kill myself so i switched from a CS major to an IT major and never looked back

no programming questions, sorry op

cool, you traded a dumpster for the outhouse

Sneaks McDevious
Jul 29, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I studied business and IS but I can't code for poo poo and I 'outsourced' or didn't do most of my programming assignments. as a business analyst I am actually learning what I need as is comes (mostly vb for access/excel macros) but can't find the energy/time to invest in actually learning a language. probably java/c# if I do. will get around to codeacademy sometime

Wayne Knight
May 11, 2006

Tori CMOS posted:

cool, you traded a dumpster for the outhouse


quote:

Ho, man, I wish. Dumpster-brand trash bins are top-of-the-line. This is just a Trash-Co waste disposal unit.

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




Tori CMOS posted:

cool, you traded a dumpster for the outhouse

i sit in a corner office and manage the guys in the outhouse, so it wasnt a bad trade imo

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i've been writing code professionally for about 12 years with about 10 years of coding for fun/school before that

finally a thread for me

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i'm a terrible coder but everyone i work with is worse (i don't work at google or apple btw)

sports
Sep 1, 2012
paging tef... jk

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i have two guys on my team that aren't programmers but who program things

had to teach one of them about source control today, like really basic stuff like "no you don't have to check one file in at a time"

getting to old for this poo poo sick of being a team lead

next job i'm just gonna pretend i'm autistic so they stop putting me in charge of people

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you

Cold on a Cob posted:

i have two guys on my team that aren't programmers but who program things

had to teach one of them about source control today, like really basic stuff like "no you don't have to check one file in at a time"

getting to old for this poo poo sick of being a team lead

next job i'm just gonna pretend i'm autistic so they stop putting me in charge of people

hhah yeah 'pretend'

JG_Plissken
Oct 22, 2005

I went to a four year college and all I got was this stupid look on my face!
Wish I could block this thread, but posts keep showing up asynchronously

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you
hey man how'd ya get so good at pretending to be autistic

Moo Cowabunga
Jun 15, 2009

[Office Worker.




hi op i'm a farmer. here is the extent of my programming knowledge.

<html>
<head>
<title>Go gently caress yourself</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>loving fucker gently caress gently caress</p>
<p><marquee>hail satan</marquee></p>
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><blink>free kim</blink><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<a href="http://www.gofuckyourself.com/guestbook.htm">Sign my guestbook!</a>
</body>
</html>


Hope this helps.

Moo Cowabunga
Jun 15, 2009

[Office Worker.




see even farmers can programme or w/e gently caress you

Optimus_Rhyme
Apr 15, 2007

are you that mainframe hacker guy?

The last four months of my life have been spent in the pursuit of getting to know myself better. It all started about seven months ago when I was working at a job I didn't hate but I wasn't happy at. I couldn't put my finger on exactly why I felt the way I did so when a friend came to me with a job that offered twice what I was making and the opportunity to work on open source software I jumped at the chance. This is what I learned:

I am a bad software developer.

I walked away from that awesome gig after three months. It was a contract-to-hire situation and I got wind of some sort of internal political struggle at the company that I wasn't invested in battling. I wasn't any happier and I still wasn't unhappy. I just didn't find anything particularly challenging or interesting anymore. So I decided to take some time off and get it together.

I planned my sabbatical carefully so as to not risk my family's financial outlook. I had paid off my debts and had enough money to take 4-5 months off of work. I created the cash-flow spreadsheet, budget, and came up with a plan to take two months off completely, one month to interview, and the fourth month would be a buffer in case interviewing would take longer than I had anticipated.

I am now in the buffer zone and have interviewed with close to ten companies to date. I have not been offered a single job and have not made it past the technical interview in most cases. I am a programmer. Until recently I had believed I was a good programmer. However in an industry where hiring practices have adjusted to filter out the plethora of bad, unqualified candidates I've found it rather difficult to consider myself a good programmer any longer.

When I started expressing my anxieties to my friends and colleagues (most of whom I consider more experienced and intelligent than myself) they assured me that I was reducing the problem to terms that were far too simple to express the complicated reality I found myself in. These are people who have personally reviewed my code, hired me for previous jobs, and have a good idea of what it was like working with me. They had nothing bad to say about my work history, the quality of my work, or my skills as a programmer. I wasn't a bad developer, they would say, I was perhaps just bad at interviews.

If I was only faced with a handful of rejections I might have believed them. However I have received nothing but rejections so far. And only twice have I made it past the first technical interview. If I had at least one or two offers I might believe them but can the system be so wrong as to consistently overlook a good developer even if they are bad at interviews? Conversely isn't it possible that the system does work well and I am a bad developer being kept from taking good jobs away from qualified candidates?

For the record I'm not one of those people who complains that they're not good at something and does nothing about it. I practice code-kata every day before I get down to work. I have a few solutions to some problems on Rosetta Code in exotic languages just for fun. I contribute to open source software regularly. And I've even tried practicing speaking to people and learning how to sell myself better in conversation. The latter I find most challenging as I find it rather difficult to relate to people until I've been around them for a while. The moral of the story here is that you don't get anywhere unless you try.

The problem is that I'm not getting anywhere and it's wearing me down. This is the last month that I can afford to pay the rent and bills without going back into debt and I still don't have any offers on the table. I wanted to move my family out of this rented apartment in an aging condo and into a house with a yard. But it seems like I won't be able to work in this industry again. And I'm afraid that I don't know how to do anything else.

So what does a bad developer look like?

Well my bookshelf is stocked with the classics: SICP, On Lisp, TAOCP, Expert C Programming, Effective C++, and textbooks on algorithms, distributed computing, security, graphics, and maths of various branches. I've read most of them (I'm still digesting TAOCP a chunk at a time). I also frequently read papers and magazines from the likes of the ACM, IEEE, and various PhD's. If you were to judge me just by my reading list you'd think I was university-trained but I'm not. I just like programming and want to know everything that I can.

I contribute to a plethora of open source projects in a range of languages such as C++, Perl, Python, and even various Lisp-like languages. Some of these projects are bits of software that I've used that don't have the functionality I required, were new projects that needed developers to fix bugs or add missing features, or were otherwise ideas for libraries or applications I've found myself needing.

I'm concerned with improving my craft. As I mentioned previously I practice code-kata. At many organizations I've worked at I championed automated testing. I read plenty of books, papers, and articles. I write and try to teach others what I know.

I enjoy mathematics. After reading all that I could about information theory after coming across Shannon Entropy I started delving into Order theory. I really like joint semi-lattices, sets, relational algebra, sentential databases. I don't remember the particulars but I know that for every recursive form there is an iterative solution. If I need to know I have my journals and text books.

And for all of this I still blunder my way through an exercise to write a function which returns a boolean in response to the question of whether sequence A is a sub-sequence of sequence B. I still draw a blank when asked what the magnitude of complexity is for the guests function I just wrote (damnit, of course calculating the permutations of a list is n-squared, but this is an interrogation of the random trivia I can manage to recall and I feel like a deer in the headlights). Any shred of confidence I had has been beaten out of me with every mistake, blunder, and rejection.

At the end of my journey I find that I am depressed, desperate, and fear that I will let my family down. My daughter is going to ask me what I do for a living some day and I will have to bite my lip and tell her that I program computers. And I will have to dodge her probing questions as she gets older and avoid telling her that I do whatever I can to put food on the table. I never achieved much and there's nothing I have done that I'm especially proud of. I just got by as best I could even when the world decided I wasn't good enough anymore.

I am a bad software developer and this is my life.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003

I’d make eye contact with him and fart. I did it all the time for like two years. I didn’t even know his full name, just heard that his coworkers thought he was a nut for complaining about “the guy who would fart on me in the break room”

Optimus_Rhyme posted:

The last four months of my life have been spent in the pursuit of getting to know myself better. It all started about seven months ago when I was working at a job I didn't hate but I wasn't happy at. I couldn't put my finger on exactly why I felt the way I did so when a friend came to me with a job that offered twice what I was making and the opportunity to work on open source software I jumped at the chance. This is what I learned:

I am a bad software developer.

I walked away from that awesome gig after three months. It was a contract-to-hire situation and I got wind of some sort of internal political struggle at the company that I wasn't invested in battling. I wasn't any happier and I still wasn't unhappy. I just didn't find anything particularly challenging or interesting anymore. So I decided to take some time off and get it together.

I planned my sabbatical carefully so as to not risk my family's financial outlook. I had paid off my debts and had enough money to take 4-5 months off of work. I created the cash-flow spreadsheet, budget, and came up with a plan to take two months off completely, one month to interview, and the fourth month would be a buffer in case interviewing would take longer than I had anticipated.

I am now in the buffer zone and have interviewed with close to ten companies to date. I have not been offered a single job and have not made it past the technical interview in most cases. I am a programmer. Until recently I had believed I was a good programmer. However in an industry where hiring practices have adjusted to filter out the plethora of bad, unqualified candidates I've found it rather difficult to consider myself a good programmer any longer.

When I started expressing my anxieties to my friends and colleagues (most of whom I consider more experienced and intelligent than myself) they assured me that I was reducing the problem to terms that were far too simple to express the complicated reality I found myself in. These are people who have personally reviewed my code, hired me for previous jobs, and have a good idea of what it was like working with me. They had nothing bad to say about my work history, the quality of my work, or my skills as a programmer. I wasn't a bad developer, they would say, I was perhaps just bad at interviews.

If I was only faced with a handful of rejections I might have believed them. However I have received nothing but rejections so far. And only twice have I made it past the first technical interview. If I had at least one or two offers I might believe them but can the system be so wrong as to consistently overlook a good developer even if they are bad at interviews? Conversely isn't it possible that the system does work well and I am a bad developer being kept from taking good jobs away from qualified candidates?

For the record I'm not one of those people who complains that they're not good at something and does nothing about it. I practice code-kata every day before I get down to work. I have a few solutions to some problems on Rosetta Code in exotic languages just for fun. I contribute to open source software regularly. And I've even tried practicing speaking to people and learning how to sell myself better in conversation. The latter I find most challenging as I find it rather difficult to relate to people until I've been around them for a while. The moral of the story here is that you don't get anywhere unless you try.

The problem is that I'm not getting anywhere and it's wearing me down. This is the last month that I can afford to pay the rent and bills without going back into debt and I still don't have any offers on the table. I wanted to move my family out of this rented apartment in an aging condo and into a house with a yard. But it seems like I won't be able to work in this industry again. And I'm afraid that I don't know how to do anything else.

So what does a bad developer look like?

Well my bookshelf is stocked with the classics: SICP, On Lisp, TAOCP, Expert C Programming, Effective C++, and textbooks on algorithms, distributed computing, security, graphics, and maths of various branches. I've read most of them (I'm still digesting TAOCP a chunk at a time). I also frequently read papers and magazines from the likes of the ACM, IEEE, and various PhD's. If you were to judge me just by my reading list you'd think I was university-trained but I'm not. I just like programming and want to know everything that I can.

I contribute to a plethora of open source projects in a range of languages such as C++, Perl, Python, and even various Lisp-like languages. Some of these projects are bits of software that I've used that don't have the functionality I required, were new projects that needed developers to fix bugs or add missing features, or were otherwise ideas for libraries or applications I've found myself needing.

I'm concerned with improving my craft. As I mentioned previously I practice code-kata. At many organizations I've worked at I championed automated testing. I read plenty of books, papers, and articles. I write and try to teach others what I know.

I enjoy mathematics. After reading all that I could about information theory after coming across Shannon Entropy I started delving into Order theory. I really like joint semi-lattices, sets, relational algebra, sentential databases. I don't remember the particulars but I know that for every recursive form there is an iterative solution. If I need to know I have my journals and text books.

And for all of this I still blunder my way through an exercise to write a function which returns a boolean in response to the question of whether sequence A is a sub-sequence of sequence B. I still draw a blank when asked what the magnitude of complexity is for the guests function I just wrote (damnit, of course calculating the permutations of a list is n-squared, but this is an interrogation of the random trivia I can manage to recall and I feel like a deer in the headlights). Any shred of confidence I had has been beaten out of me with every mistake, blunder, and rejection.

At the end of my journey I find that I am depressed, desperate, and fear that I will let my family down. My daughter is going to ask me what I do for a living some day and I will have to bite my lip and tell her that I program computers. And I will have to dodge her probing questions as she gets older and avoid telling her that I do whatever I can to put food on the table. I never achieved much and there's nothing I have done that I'm especially proud of. I just got by as best I could even when the world decided I wasn't good enough anymore.

I am a bad software developer and this is my life.

shut the gently caress up

Moist von Lipwig
Oct 28, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
Tortured By Flan
op whats your workflow like

Moo Cowabunga
Jun 15, 2009

[Office Worker.




Tori CMOS posted:

shut the gently caress up

Oldsmobile
Jun 13, 2006

There's actually a syndrome where people who are in technical or demanding jobs think they've gotten to where they're at by decieving thheir co-workers and employers. Most of the sufferers are minorities or women.

Socracheese
Oct 20, 2008

imposter syndrome and i have it but its actually true

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you

Socracheese posted:

imposter syndrome and i have it but its actually true

you don't have it because there's no way to diagnose it

Papes
Apr 13, 2010

There's always something at the bottom of the bag.
Sorry op you aren't actually safe unless both hands are touching the base.

Socracheese
Oct 20, 2008

I also go to hospitals and tell the doctors I have Münchausen syndrome but I really dont

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER
If you're a bad programmer don't worry, there's plenty of really bad software that needs to be written for specific non-pure-tech industries. Even if "enterprise" software already exists for them, it's pretty much universally bad and your terrible programming has a good chance of being much better.


Also you'll make more money than a "real" developer.

Oldsmobile
Jun 13, 2006

I am an arrogant, flesh eating dominant white male and I have gotten to where I am by stepping on the faces of losers!

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007

i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

i do all my programming in DOS using turbo c and djgpp. does that make me terrible?

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you

Oldsmobile posted:

I am an arrogant, flesh eating dominant white male and I have gotten to where I am by stepping on the faces of losers!

saem

BONGHITZ
Jan 1, 1970

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

this is the worst wikipedia article i have ever seen

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder

BONGHITZ posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

this is the worst wikipedia article i have ever seen

at least im not a dunning kreuger

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames
10 print "gas and ban install opera"
20 goto 10

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PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Pissflaps posted:

10 print "gas and ban install opera"
20 goto 10

this is real bad advice just b t w

for all the bad programmers itt who might not know better :)

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