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Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

ScooterMcTiny posted:

This is always a fascinating thread for me to follow as neither a home owner or landlord.

Read this article today - for me this is the far more terrifying prospect for our future than a guy who wants to own a few rental properties.

http://fortune.com/longform/single-family-home-ai-algorithms/

One company owns 16,000 single family homes.

The advantage to that is dissolving a corporate charter doesn't make people get up in arms about "murder". That said "We’re catering to a whole new class of Americans—the former buyers who are now either forced renters or renters by choice." is the kind of statement that should be guillotineable. Especially when the sentence prior was about how they're paying exactly as much as they would if they were buying the house.

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Snuggie for Dogs
Feb 19, 2008

All leeches will ever want to know is lying, cheating and stealing. Observing larger societal systems in action is like astrology to them.

Ramc
May 4, 2008

Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

I mean landlords have a lot more time and money to influence politicians to pass favorable laws than their tenants do. And if the tenants do have too much time and money well landlords have one weird trick for that too.

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:

Don't get me wrong I know this might be one of those, "in a gentle way you can shake the world" kinds of things but if you've really got beef with the institution of renting property for money why don't you take it to the doorstep of Sean Dobson or something instead of stampeding in on a bunch of generally reasonable people who try to conduct business in a what seems to be a largely decent and evenhanded way?

That is to say, if you want to be persuasive about the inevitable injustice of renting property (and the landlord tenant relationship) - and I think you can be! - why don't you try to be a bit more nuanced and sophisticated in attempting to persuade other thinking, breathing, valid, supposedly-decent human beings of the virtue of your perspective and the folly of theirs?

Except of course if the only actual avenues remaining to be a capital "L" leftist in the United States in 2019 are 1) to radicalize, leave the country for the third world where you'll pursue your ideology sincerely but with all the creature comforts and benefits of being born privileged in history's greatest hegemony discarded like so many of your outgrown teenage identities or 2) as an insufferable ongoing performance piece in which you posture about having read, thought, considered or talked about an endlessly tedious regression of ideas about ideas about ideas and where you botch every. genuine. opportunity. to persuade those who think or feel differently than you by clumsily deploying unconvincing memes or awkward catchphrases instead of meeting them halfway from the comfortable identity you've knitted together for yourself.

Because if instead of playing a role for fun on the internet you're trying to communicate real ideas with real meaning and real importance, you should know that the rest of the baggage is insufferable.

Unless you really truly believe that the citizenry of what qualifies as "the proletariat" in 2019's United States of America is ready for armed, bloody revolution against a capital class armed with a symphony of opioids (including some actual opioids) the likes of which Marx could have never imagined.

Idgi what need does the guillotine have to negotiate with the neck?

Tollymain
Jul 9, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
have you noticed that for all these opioids, here we stand, having this conversation?

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

Hot Diggity! posted:

I have been renting for like 15 years and have had exactly one good landlord. Never increased rent the four years I lived there, let me leech off their internet, fixed stuff quick when it broke, and were generally awesome people. All the other ones sucked rear end.

Me too. Oh wait no, that was the time I was part of a housing cooperative.

Landlords are leeches.


Edit: here's a big thinker for y'all: college town with high real estate costs. 5 students voluntarily pay twice the minimum that would cover costs for the property because we wanted to leave capital in the bank for future repair costs. We still paid hundreds less than the going rate in 2007-10.

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jun 25, 2019

IrvingWashington
Dec 9, 2007

Shabbat Shalom
Clapping Larry

EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:

a bunch of generally reasonable people who try to conduct business in a what seems to be a largely decent and evenhanded way?

Private landlords can never be reasonable, decent or evenhanded, despite the very best of intentions because of the power imbalance between them and their tenants. They ultimately decide if their tenant can continue to live in their home.

My current landlord is a pretty alright guy but if I'm ever in a position to need to complain, just to stand up for my legally protected rights, I still have to consider the fact that if I do so in a way that happens to upset him (for whatever reason, maybe he had a lovely day), he's capable of causing incredible stress and trauma for my entire family on a whim.

I had to consider exactly that last Friday, and then I had to explain it to my children. It's dehumanizing, deeply unpleasant, and entirely unavoidable. It's not reasonable that anybody should be made to feel that way. It's not decent that someone should earn income by putting people through situtations like that. It's absolutely not evenhanded, because that power dynamic overshadows every single interaction we have.

A landlord is either: someone who for whatever reason has not yet considered what it is like to live with the knowledge that your living situation is precarious and nonpermanent, or; someone who has considered that and decided to make money rather than avoid being part of that system. In the first case, putting my persuasive argument to them might well be to my benefit. In the second case, it's not likely because they've already made a value judgment.

In either case, I'm not putting my persuasive argument to them from an equal footing, because they are landlords and I am a tenant. I could make a wildly popular YouTube video that explains convincingly why being a landlord is immoral. Now 60% of the people who would have rented to me previously are no longer willing to, and I'm homeless again, except this time I've taken my family with me. It's hyperbolic, but only because I wouldn't want to risk putting my family in that position - not because it couldn't happen.

I can see how landlords might believe themselves to be reasonable and decent. I don't see how the system could possibly allow that to be the case.

Kaysette
Jan 5, 2009

~*Boston makes me*~
~*feel good*~

:wrongcity:

IrvingWashington posted:

Private landlords can never be reasonable, decent or evenhanded, despite the very best of intentions because of the power imbalance between them and their tenants. They ultimately decide if their tenant can continue to live in their home.

My current landlord is a pretty alright guy but if I'm ever in a position to need to complain, just to stand up for my legally protected rights, I still have to consider the fact that if I do so in a way that happens to upset him (for whatever reason, maybe he had a lovely day), he's capable of causing incredible stress and trauma for my entire family on a whim.

I had to consider exactly that last Friday, and then I had to explain it to my children. It's dehumanizing, deeply unpleasant, and entirely unavoidable. It's not reasonable that anybody should be made to feel that way. It's not decent that someone should earn income by putting people through situtations like that. It's absolutely not evenhanded, because that power dynamic overshadows every single interaction we have.

A landlord is either: someone who for whatever reason has not yet considered what it is like to live with the knowledge that your living situation is precarious and nonpermanent, or; someone who has considered that and decided to make money rather than avoid being part of that system. In the first case, putting my persuasive argument to them might well be to my benefit. In the second case, it's not likely because they've already made a value judgment.

In either case, I'm not putting my persuasive argument to them from an equal footing, because they are landlords and I am a tenant. I could make a wildly popular YouTube video that explains convincingly why being a landlord is immoral. Now 60% of the people who would have rented to me previously are no longer willing to, and I'm homeless again, except this time I've taken my family with me. It's hyperbolic, but only because I wouldn't want to risk putting my family in that position - not because it couldn't happen.

I can see how landlords might believe themselves to be reasonable and decent. I don't see how the system could possibly allow that to be the case.

Please make this the OP.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
e: I didn't mean to post in here.
ee: but I agree that it doesn't matter how nice an individual is within a fundamentally unethical system.

Happy Thread
Jul 10, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Plaster Town Cop

Somebody fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jun 25, 2019

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FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

There is not going to be a situation, at least not for a long time, where this thread can exist on SA and not be a huge mess. BFC is a good forum and I don't want to see all the mod attention and resources going to a continually-problematic thread. So I'm going to close this, and it's going to be a while before there's another. I know there are going to be a lot of people on every side that will be mad about this, but I think it's the best solution for BFC and SA at this time.

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