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Tony Montana
Aug 6, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Wow, in Australia you bring your own fridge and washer and dryer. The stove is pretty much part of the property, so that makes sense, but the movable white goods you supply yourself. I wouldn't really want to use someone else's fridge and considering for $300 if you keep an eye out you can pick up a great second hand one.. but yeah ok. I guess for the lower rents when you've got students trying to make tiny budgets work another 1500 for whitegoods can sink the whole ship.

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Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
I live in an area with low rents in the US midwest, and anything above a dorm room has a full-size refrigerator, freezer, and oven. If you don't have those essential appliances most tenants will dismiss the place out of hand or ask for steep discounts. Having an onsite washer and dryer is pretty standard in any apartment complex except for the smallest ones, although most of them are coin operated.

Edit: Also, newer appliances are a major selling point at all rent levels, and are a good way to differentiate your property. If you're renting lower end property, having a fridge that is less than 5 years old will allow you to raise your rent to cover it, since nobody wants to pay the electric bills for an old one that is more likely to fail and spoil all your food.

Konstantin fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Oct 19, 2013

Tony Montana
Aug 6, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
That's really cool and blows me away a bit.

Just for story, I'm in Bardonnecia, Italy at the moment on holiday. It's a small town in the Alps, I've rented an apartment here for 6 weeks. I've got another one in Sestriere which is close and I'll be renting that for around 4 months. In this current one, there is no washer and no dryer. There is nothing in the whole drat town, except for a single little washing room business run by a sweet old lady. This sweet old lady who smiles nicely and seems so lovely just charged me 22 loving Euro to do a load of wash.

That's 30 bucks, American. Yeah she washed it and dried it and folded it, but gently caress me backwards you cheeky little... I have no other option here, I'm looking at it now but it's probably cheaper to take my washing down to the train, get on the train and go to the next bigger town, do the washing in a coin-op laundry and ride the train back. If it works out even a little cheaper I'm loving doing it because screw you, you rip-off washer-woman.

razz
Dec 26, 2005

Queen of Maceration

Konstantin posted:

I live in an area with low rents in the US midwest, and anything above a dorm room has a full-size refrigerator, freezer, and oven. If you don't have those essential appliances most tenants will dismiss the place out of hand or ask for steep discounts. Having an onsite washer and dryer is pretty standard in any apartment complex except for the smallest ones, although most of them are coin operated.

Yeah I'm from the Midwest and if a place didn't have a fridge and a stove that would be a deal-breaker for me. It really doesn't make sense for people who rent to own the appliances.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Tony Montana posted:

That's really cool and blows me away a bit.

Just for story, I'm in Bardonnecia, Italy at the moment on holiday. It's a small town in the Alps, I've rented an apartment here for 6 weeks. I've got another one in Sestriere which is close and I'll be renting that for around 4 months. In this current one, there is no washer and no dryer. There is nothing in the whole drat town, except for a single little washing room business run by a sweet old lady. This sweet old lady who smiles nicely and seems so lovely just charged me 22 loving Euro to do a load of wash.

That's 30 bucks, American. Yeah she washed it and dried it and folded it, but gently caress me backwards you cheeky little... I have no other option here, I'm looking at it now but it's probably cheaper to take my washing down to the train, get on the train and go to the next bigger town, do the washing in a coin-op laundry and ride the train back. If it works out even a little cheaper I'm loving doing it because screw you, you rip-off washer-woman.

Labor in Europe is expensive and coin ops are unusual as just about everyone has the machines themselves. The woman ripped you off also has to do with your inability to ask for a price before you had her do your laundry.

Tony Montana
Aug 6, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Keetron posted:

Labor in Europe is expensive and coin ops are unusual as just about everyone has the machines themselves. The woman ripped you off also has to do with your inability to ask for a price before you had her do your laundry.

Quanto costa? How much does it cost? I can speak enough Italian that I'm not a stupid tourist, I just assumed it wasn't going to be something like $30. Come on, man, $30 for a load of wash is ridiculous. In Rome I paid 8 Euro and a dude did a load and folded it all for me. But yeah, there are coin-ops everywhere back in Australia, maybe your machine breaks or you've just arrived and can't afford a machine yet (I guess back to what we were saying that low budget rentals don't come with a washing machine usually).. so you can spend about 10 bucks in a coin-op. Bloody good commercial machines in there too, when I had to use one when my machine broke I was surprised how clean my clothes were.

Gamesguy
Sep 7, 2010

Weinertron posted:

I see renting for 2% of its value thrown around all over the place as a rule of thumb, is it a sign that one should rent if rents are under 1% of property value in a neighborhood? There's an upper middle class neighborhood near me where there are only a couple of rental houses, but they are being rented for $2400/mo in an area where homes are $380k+. Is this insane landlords losing money?

I think the 2% rule is for economically depressed areas, you're basically slum lording. I own two rental properties in San Diego outright and I don't even get 1% despite purchasing them at below market value(both were foreclosures) and near the very bottom of the housing market. Maybe I've just been lucky but when I see people throwing numbers out like 50% of the rent going towards expenses I don't even understand how that can happen. Here's my personal experience with being a land lord.

I purchased the properties a few months apart for similar amounts in the same neighborhood. Both were in decent enough condition when I bought them that repair costs were under $5000 total. The biggest one-time cost I've had was replacing a garage door that cost me a grand. Initially I didn't do enough tenant screening and I had a few bad tenants that cost me a few months rent. After a bad experience with a couple who left dog poop all over the house(literally, they had a dog who just shat in the house) I decided to up the rent and deposit for the next tenant. It took me longer to fill the vacancy but as of today I have two tenants who's been in those properties for 1.5 and 3 years respectively. They take decent care of the property and I make sure whenever they have a problem I get someone there right away to fix it or replace what's broken.

My ROI was about 8.5%(~16k-17k net income on ~200k properties) until this year when home values in the area went up massively. So now I'm getting a little over 6% and my properties have appreciated ~33% in value.

Now granted I could have gotten more from the stock market, but I wanted to diversify and I firmly believe that SD's mobile tech/biotech economy is very robust and housing prices will continue to rebound alongside the economy.

Dazzleberries
Jul 4, 2003

Gamesguy posted:

I think the 2% rule is for economically depressed areas, you're basically slum lording. I own two rental properties in San Diego outright and I don't even get 1% despite purchasing them at below market value(both were foreclosures) and near the very bottom of the housing market. Maybe I've just been lucky but when I see people throwing numbers out like 50% of the rent going towards expenses I don't even understand how that can happen. Here's my personal experience with being a land lord.


My ROI was about 8.5%(~16k-17k net income on ~200k properties) until this year when home values in the area went up massively. So now I'm getting a little over 6% and my properties have appreciated ~33% in value.

Now granted I could have gotten more from the stock market, but I wanted to diversify and I firmly believe that SD's mobile tech/biotech economy is very robust and housing prices will continue to rebound alongside the economy.

It's not so much slum lording, it's all about location where you can get 2%. Equivilent houses can have radically different values in different areas, while rents vary less. You can get a 50k house that rents for 1k in many areas, but in other areas the exact same house might cost 150k, and you'd be renting it for only 30% more.

1% is a decent guideline but when looking at a house to purchase with financing you must have a spreadsheet that breaks down everything. Include the price, your down payment (typically at least 20%), your anticipated expenses (use 40-50%), anticipated rent and your return and then you can start to get a feel for what would work in your area.

The 40-50% expenses are long term realities. If you bought a brand new house, and turned around and rented it your expenses will be much lower, initially at least. Chances are there is no way a brand new house is a good rental investment so you'll likely have a house much older. While your expenses one year may be low, the next you may have to replace the roof and the furnace and lose money that year.

A lot of people think or try to convince others (to sell them bad investments) to think that Rent - Mortgage Payment = CASH FLOW, but that is short term thinking because it does not include the realities of owning a house, which includes random and not so random expenditures.

Gamesguy
Sep 7, 2010

Dazzleberries posted:

It's not so much slum lording, it's all about location where you can get 2%. Equivilent houses can have radically different values in different areas, while rents vary less. You can get a 50k house that rents for 1k in many areas, but in other areas the exact same house might cost 150k, and you'd be renting it for only 30% more.

1% is a decent guideline but when looking at a house to purchase with financing you must have a spreadsheet that breaks down everything. Include the price, your down payment (typically at least 20%), your anticipated expenses (use 40-50%), anticipated rent and your return and then you can start to get a feel for what would work in your area.

The 40-50% expenses are long term realities. If you bought a brand new house, and turned around and rented it your expenses will be much lower, initially at least. Chances are there is no way a brand new house is a good rental investment so you'll likely have a house much older. While your expenses one year may be low, the next you may have to replace the roof and the furnace and lose money that year.

A lot of people think or try to convince others (to sell them bad investments) to think that Rent - Mortgage Payment = CASH FLOW, but that is short term thinking because it does not include the realities of owning a house, which includes random and not so random expenditures.

See I don't agree with this at all. Roofs here last 15 years or so, and a full replacement will cost ~10k(less for me since my dad is a contractor) for the size of property I have. Annualized over the its lifespan, the cost is less than $700 a year or only 4% of my net income. Furnaces are even less, a full replacement costs only about $1500, annualized over its lifespan and the cost is miniscule. Water heaters are cheap as well, and damages from a broken water heater or a leaky roof is covered by my insurance.

As for things like vandalism by tenants. My landlord insurances covers all of that plus it has a rent guarantee if I get some deadbeats I have to evict. When I add it all up and run the numbers I don't get anywhere near 50%, more like 10%.

Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Oct 22, 2013

Dazzleberries
Jul 4, 2003

Gamesguy posted:

See I don't agree with this at all. Roofs here last 15 years or so, and a full replacement will cost ~10k(less for me since my dad is a contractor) for the size of property I have. Annualized over the its lifespan, the cost is less than $700 a year or only 4% of my net income. Furnaces are even less, a full replacement costs only about $1500, annualized over its lifespan and the cost is miniscule. Water heaters are cheap as well, and damages from a broken water heater or a leaky roof is covered by my insurance.

As for things like vandalism by tenants. My landlord insurances covers all of that plus it has a rent guarantee if I get some deadbeats I have to evict. When I add it all up and run the numbers I don't get anywhere near 50%, more like 10%.

But that's the thing, expenses are anything you spend money on, they aren't only repairs. You probably pay property taxes, you say you pay insurance, and in many situations you have to cover utilities, either all the time or at least during vacancies.

Now let's say one of your tenants trashes the place and leaves, you have the security deposit for that right? Well let's say it costs 1k more than their deposit to fix the damage, oh now it's decision time, is that enough to warrant going after them in terms of your time and likely your money? Do you spend 1k to get a judgement for 1k and then have them declare bankrupcty? Or do you just eat the 1k and fix it? Just last month I was in this scenario and I opted to just eat it, only to later get a bankruptcy notice.

Same with eviction. Person stops paying, that's your time and/or your money to get them evicted and depending on your states laws, you may have to pay to store their junk, and you won't be getting rent for at least a month.

Without a doubt, if you are handy and can do many repairs yourself, manage your rentals yourself etc, you can have lower expenses (I'd say mid to high 30s) over a 15+ year period, but when you are evaluating what is a good purchase, it helps to use a conservative number like 50% to be able to identify what is a good investment or not.

Gamesguy
Sep 7, 2010

Dazzleberries posted:

But that's the thing, expenses are anything you spend money on, they aren't only repairs. You probably pay property taxes, you say you pay insurance, and in many situations you have to cover utilities, either all the time or at least during vacancies.

I deducted these things, that's why I said net. You do have a point about vacancies, but so far I haven't had trouble filling fairly quickly.

quote:

Now let's say one of your tenants trashes the place and leaves, you have the security deposit for that right? Well let's say it costs 1k more than their deposit to fix the damage, oh now it's decision time, is that enough to warrant going after them in terms of your time and likely your money? Do you spend 1k to get a judgement for 1k and then have them declare bankrupcty? Or do you just eat the 1k and fix it? Just last month I was in this scenario and I opted to just eat it, only to later get a bankruptcy notice.

Same with eviction. Person stops paying, that's your time and/or your money to get them evicted and depending on your states laws, you may have to pay to store their junk, and you won't be getting rent for at least a month.

None of the above, I file an insurance claim and my insurance reimburses me. Same thing with the eviction.

quote:

Without a doubt, if you are handy and can do many repairs yourself, manage your rentals yourself etc, you can have lower expenses (I'd say mid to high 30s) over a 15+ year period, but when you are evaluating what is a good purchase, it helps to use a conservative number like 50% to be able to identify what is a good investment or not.

Adding absolutely everything including expected maintenance costs I still only get a 25% figure.

Harry posted:

How much is this insurance costing a month? Just from the numbers you're giving it's like $80 a month, which can't possibly cover all those things.

Both policies combined cost a little over $1000/yr per property.

Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Oct 22, 2013

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
How much is this insurance costing a month? Just from the numbers you're giving it's like $80 a month, which can't possibly cover all those things.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down
I just got a letter from the city my rental is in that they are now (assuming just starting the program) inspecting the exterior of all non-homesteaded homes because of the recent glut of them from the collapse. They said they will be charging me $125 for the first inspection and $56 for subsequent (every two years) inspections with good sized fines for violations (obvious blight stuff I don't have to worry about) and permit issues. I'm a bit nervous as I had a small deck and fence connecting my deck to the garage (non-perimeter if it matters) put in before it moved out without a permit.

I am certain it's highly location dependent, but what inspection/permit issues have you guys encountered? I have the option to be there for it, which I am considering but fear being put on the spot and say a damning statement that I can respond to later.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos

TraderStav posted:

I just got a letter from the city my rental is in that they are now (assuming just starting the program) inspecting the exterior of all non-homesteaded homes because of the recent glut of them from the collapse. They said they will be charging me $125 for the first inspection and $56 for subsequent (every two years) inspections with good sized fines for violations (obvious blight stuff I don't have to worry about) and permit issues. I'm a bit nervous as I had a small deck and fence connecting my deck to the garage (non-perimeter if it matters) put in before it moved out without a permit.

I am certain it's highly location dependent, but what inspection/permit issues have you guys encountered? I have the option to be there for it, which I am considering but fear being put on the spot and say a damning statement that I can respond to later.
Local bylaws will tell you whether a permit was required for that work as they are generally only needed for decks of a certain size.

Four Finger Wu
Jan 11, 2008
Los Angeles has a comprehensive inspection program for rent-controlled property called the Systematic Code Enforcement Program - or SCEP. They inspect every three years or so for violations of the housing code, which includes building code issues as well as health and safety and civil rights/tenants rights issues. I think it is very important to show up for the inspection to answer any questions for the inspector as well as do your best to guide the inspector around any problem areas. Also, the inspectors are not all terrible people and they may appreciate having a host. Usually situation that you could put your foot in your mouth over will be just as bad if there is no one around to explain it, and the inspector draws his or her own conclusion.

I once had a situation where a tenant misunderstood and thought the inspector was a repairman (tenant was not a native English speaker) and he proceeded to guide him around the unit showing him all the areas to be repaired... "oh the rug here is torn, and this window doesn't close.. this faucet leaks." Thankfully they were mostly minor issues and most of them weren't written up.

TraderStav posted:

I just got a letter from the city my rental is in that they are now (assuming just starting the program) inspecting the exterior of all non-homesteaded homes because of the recent glut of them from the collapse. They said they will be charging me $125 for the first inspection and $56 for subsequent (every two years) inspections with good sized fines for violations (obvious blight stuff I don't have to worry about) and permit issues. I'm a bit nervous as I had a small deck and fence connecting my deck to the garage (non-perimeter if it matters) put in before it moved out without a permit.

I am certain it's highly location dependent, but what inspection/permit issues have you guys encountered? I have the option to be there for it, which I am considering but fear being put on the spot and say a damning statement that I can respond to later.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down
Great points from both of you, thanks! I will look into the bylaws and let them know I want to be present. It's roughly a ten by ten deck with only a foot high. More of a platform... It's the fence from the house to the detached garage I'm concerned about. But nothing I can control now.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down
Just checked the website. ALL fences and decks require permits. Welp, here's to them not looking!

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006

Does anyone in this thread own commercial property? Man, it seems so enticing to lease out a property on triple net terms, but in my area it seems like you either have tenants permanently or a constant flux of tenants going out of business rapidly and leaving you vacant more than not.

edit: I don't have any commercial property, but I like the idea of it.

sleepy gary fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Oct 30, 2013

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down
Any guidance on how to respond to the question in my above situation for "Does that have a permit?" when he points to my deck/fencing? I imagine that saying it was there before I bought the house isn't an excuse.

KaiserBen
Aug 11, 2007

DNova posted:

Does anyone in this thread own commercial property? Man, it seems so enticing to lease out a property on triple net terms, but in my area it seems like you either have tenants permanently or a constant flux of tenants going out of business rapidly and leaving you vacant more than not.

edit: I don't have any commercial property, but I like the idea of it.

Sounds like you want a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_tenant_lease. Hope you've got *deep* pockets.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos

TraderStav posted:

Just checked the website. ALL fences and decks require permits. Welp, here's to them not looking!
They would technically need a permit for construction but once it's built as long as there aren't any major obvious problems with it then it should be fine. Something would have to give them a reason to ask about it - like if it was obviously unsafe or breaking zoning bylaws.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006

KaiserBen posted:

Sounds like you want a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_tenant_lease. Hope you've got *deep* pockets.

I don't know if things are different around my area or what, but I talked to a bank about buying a building with a small branch of a national bank as one of the tenants. There was nothing special about the financing. It wasn't a gigantic plaza or something, though. It was a few storefronts and a few apartments.

crazypeltast52
May 5, 2010



DNova posted:

I don't know if things are different around my area or what, but I talked to a bank about buying a building with a small branch of a national bank as one of the tenants. There was nothing special about the financing. It wasn't a gigantic plaza or something, though. It was a few storefronts and a few apartments.

With a national tenant like that you have to look at how much lease they have left and what will happen when it expires. The Boulder Group puts out cap rate research on a lot of single-tenant stuff, but for mixed use like that you'll still be able to direct cap the apartments, but you'll want to run a dcf on your retail spaces.

KaiserBen
Aug 11, 2007
Yeah, you only get a CTL if the lease is long, with a nationally known tenant, triple-net or bondable, and the property is typically brand new.

Mixed use properties (commercial + residential) would not qualify. CTLs are typically single-tenant new buildings (eg: 7-11s, CVS, Dollar General are all common names).

Multi-tenant retail, particularly strip malls, has been hti really hard lately; banks are getting a bit shy on lending without solid numbers, experienced ownership and long leases from good tenants.

TouchyMcFeely
Aug 21, 2006

High five! Hell yeah!

I'm bumping this old thread because I'm potentially facing a promotion/relocation and need to try and figure out what to do with my house.

Unfortunately I'm not sure I could sell my house for what I paid for it but I think I could rent it. I'm not underwater, thankfully, and I think I have enough equity to not be considered a risk for a buy and bail. My monthly payment, as it stands now is $666 (:rock:) which is less than 10% of my yearly gross income. The only other debt I have is a student loan which should be paid off within a month or two.

The house is a little on the small side as a 2 bed/1.75 bath but sits on a 1/3rd of an acre and has an unfinished 1300sq ft basement. Looking at other rentals in the area I think I could get $750 a month which would be enough to cover the mortgage and the property management fees.

The house is in good condition, the only major concern being the age of the furnace. The roof and A/C are both less than 5 years old and the appliances are all good quality and in good condition.

Ideally we would like to move to our new city, spend a year or so renting ourselves and then buy a new house.

Is there anything I'm missing here or that I should be aware of? I understand the risks associated with being a long-distance landlord but I'm looking for info specific to the "rent the old house while you buy a new one" situation.

timp
Sep 19, 2007

Everything is in my control
Lipstick Apathy

TouchyMcFeely posted:

I'm bumping this old thread because I'm potentially facing a promotion/relocation and need to try and figure out what to do with my house.

Unfortunately I'm not sure I could sell my house for what I paid for it but I think I could rent it. I'm not underwater, thankfully, and I think I have enough equity to not be considered a risk for a buy and bail. My monthly payment, as it stands now is $666 (:rock:) which is less than 10% of my yearly gross income. The only other debt I have is a student loan which should be paid off within a month or two.

The house is a little on the small side as a 2 bed/1.75 bath but sits on a 1/3rd of an acre and has an unfinished 1300sq ft basement. Looking at other rentals in the area I think I could get $750 a month which would be enough to cover the mortgage and the property management fees.

The house is in good condition, the only major concern being the age of the furnace. The roof and A/C are both less than 5 years old and the appliances are all good quality and in good condition.

Ideally we would like to move to our new city, spend a year or so renting ourselves and then buy a new house.

Is there anything I'm missing here or that I should be aware of? I understand the risks associated with being a long-distance landlord but I'm looking for info specific to the "rent the old house while you buy a new one" situation.

Sounds like you've got it covered, I'd say. I don't know if this helps (or if you'll even need it), but if you're able to prove to the PM company you plan on renting from once you move that you've enlisted a PM company to rent out the house you currently own, you can claim the income you'll get from their rent as part of your monthly income, which can help qualify you for properties with higher rent.

SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006

TouchyMcFeely posted:

My monthly payment, as it stands now is $666

I think I could get $750 a month

So after the property management company takes their 10%, you will have a whopping $9 in monthly positive cash flow... so long as the property is never vacant, never needs maintenance, and never needs you to pay to acquire a new tenant. And that's before you consider the taxes - the quick summary there is that unless your monthly depreciation expense (0.3% of the structure's value - excluding land) exceeds the principal portion of your mortgage payment, you will have net taxable income and owe tax at your marginal rate. Your $9 won't cover that, so you'll have to pay it out of your other income, too.

No way is this worth it in your situation. Be happy you're not underwater and sell the place.

TouchyMcFeely
Aug 21, 2006

High five! Hell yeah!

SlapActionJackson posted:

So after the property management company takes their 10%, you will have a whopping $9 in monthly positive cash flow... so long as the property is never vacant, never needs maintenance, and never needs you to pay to acquire a new tenant. And that's before you consider the taxes - the quick summary there is that unless your monthly depreciation expense (0.3% of the structure's value - excluding land) exceeds the principal portion of your mortgage payment, you will have net taxable income and owe tax at your marginal rate. Your $9 won't cover that, so you'll have to pay it out of your other income, too.

No way is this worth it in your situation. Be happy you're not underwater and sell the place.

The numbers are bad, no doubt about it. The bigger problem is that I'm not sure I can sell the place. Within 2 blocks in any direction are 5 or 6 empty foreclosures some of which have been for sale for over a year. I owe $108,000 and think I might be able to pull $125,000 with the way the neighborhood market looks. If I weren't surrounded by foreclosures I think I could pull closer to $140,000 due to the unusually large lot size and improvements made.

The dilemma I face is do I take the risk of the house sitting empty for months while I wait for someone to buy it (considering the time of year, the harshness of winters here, etc), paying everything out of pocket, and likely end up selling it in for a lot less than I'd like out of desperation or do I put it up for rent and have it (mostly) pay for itself while the market improves. In an ideal situation selling it would be the best option, no doubt. But if I can rent it out for a year or two, even if it ends up costing me a bit in the end, I'll be in a much better position to sell and get some of the equity back.

I could go the other way and try to sell it for $145k, willing to accept $135k (what I paid for it 8 years ago) and then rent if it doesn't sell but that seems likes a riskier approach since I'll have to float the home, hoping things work my way in a buyers market and hope that nothing happens to the house while it's sitting empty. That seems like an awful lot of hoping compared to just flat renting it out.

Enigma89
Jan 2, 2007

by CVG

Tony Montana posted:

That's really cool and blows me away a bit.

Just for story, I'm in Bardonnecia, Italy at the moment on holiday. It's a small town in the Alps, I've rented an apartment here for 6 weeks. I've got another one in Sestriere which is close and I'll be renting that for around 4 months. In this current one, there is no washer and no dryer. There is nothing in the whole drat town, except for a single little washing room business run by a sweet old lady. This sweet old lady who smiles nicely and seems so lovely just charged me 22 loving Euro to do a load of wash.

That's 30 bucks, American. Yeah she washed it and dried it and folded it, but gently caress me backwards you cheeky little... I have no other option here, I'm looking at it now but it's probably cheaper to take my washing down to the train, get on the train and go to the next bigger town, do the washing in a coin-op laundry and ride the train back. If it works out even a little cheaper I'm loving doing it because screw you, you rip-off washer-woman.

If it's that expensive, you can just wash it in your tub and hang dry. I did this for a couple of months and it's really not hard to do.

Wicaeed
Feb 8, 2005
Asking this question purely as a renter:

Under what conditions is a lease considered ended?

My room mate and I are in the process of trying to move into a townhouse that belongs to a friend. In order for us to do so, we have had to (on our own) put up an ad and find someone to take over our lease. Any potential applicants we have found have had needed to fork over 35 bucks for a background check/credit screening before being accepted.

We actually had one renter meet the requirements, which is a huge relief to us. However now the property management company is pressuring for a move out date so that they can get the unit occupied asap. The problem is that we are still working on a lease/rental for the place we want to move in to, and so far haven't signed anything that would let us so much as guess on a move out date.

I just want to be 100% sure that because WE HAVEN'T SIGNED ANYTHING, be it terminating our current lease, or going into a new one with our friend, the PMC can't do ANYTHING to the current lease without our signatures. I would hate to end up sleeping on the curb because of some stupid misunderstanding regarding move in dates.

Our rent is paid for this month, too, so they can't claim we're behind on rent or any of that jazz.

Edit: I should specify that all of this is in California

Wicaeed fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Dec 10, 2013

SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006

TouchyMcFeely posted:

The numbers are bad, no doubt about it. The bigger problem is that I'm not sure I can sell the place. Within 2 blocks in any direction are 5 or 6 empty foreclosures some of which have been for sale for over a year. I owe $108,000 and think I might be able to pull $125,000 with the way the neighborhood market looks. If I weren't surrounded by foreclosures I think I could pull closer to $140,000 due to the unusually large lot size and improvements made.

You can list it both for sale and for lease at the same time, see which generates more interest. If you can sell for $125K now, that seems a much better deal than renting it in the hopes the market improves in a year.

silicone thrills
Jan 9, 2008

I paint things
Hello BFC folks. I've got a question on choices - a what to do first.

So my current house has a 625ft 13ft tall crawl space/ daylight basement that could probably be renovated to a full 1bd apartment for about $70k and another 20 to 30k for landscaping to make it easily accessible + an extra parking spot. The apartment would bring in approx 800 to 1000 a month - we are in a desirable neighborhood in a city that doesn't have nearly enough rental stock.

I'd also have another possibility. A house went up for sale near by that is 2400sqft, 900sqft daylight basement, 4 level split. Its a super low price because it needs a facelift. It would be a 350,000 purchase with maybe 20,000 in facelifting. Rent could bring in about 2000 a month for the main portion and another 800+ for the basement. (depending on some things. I haven't seen it yet so i'm not sure how the basement is laid out yet). I've got a call to my realtor to look sometime this week.

As someone considering renting/landlording for the first time - would you think the smaller investment or bigger investment. The other notation about the house is there will be a new light rail / transit station just 3 blocks away so the value on the property is going to jump in about 6 years when the station completes. Then again the desirability of our own house is going to jump as well.


Oh and a note that applies to both - I've renovated my own house so I can definitely do everything that is cosmetic. The only things I will end up hiring out are plumbing and heavy equipment usage if needed and pooossssibly heavy electrical work. Smaller electrical jobs are something my husband and I have done as well.

silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 23, 2013

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X
90-100k outlay for 9.6k annual income before expenses? So you're looking at a decade plus payback period? That's too long term. Control costs further and charge more rent or find another deal, IMO.

silicone thrills
Jan 9, 2008

I paint things

SiGmA_X posted:

90-100k outlay for 9.6k annual income before expenses? So you're looking at a decade plus payback period? That's too long term. Control costs further and charge more rent or find another deal, IMO.

TBH Since we would do most of the work ourselves, its probably far less. We got a quote from a GC just to get an idea so it probably will end up more like a 60K outlay total. The term length isn't a big deal for us FYI. We never plan to sell this house and this isn't a hardship or slowing down our retirement. I should have put that into the first post I guess.

Another note is that our neighborhood will be able to support the increase. We will be gaining that 625sqft as usable space in our house. Another bathroom, another bedroom, etc so it builds the equity a lot in case we ever do feel the need to sell it. We've got houses on our block ranging from 300,000 to 800,000 and we are sitting in the 375,000ish area.

silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 24, 2013

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb


Tigntink posted:

TBH Since we would do most of the work ourselves, its probably far less.

Are you accounting for the time/labor that you'll be putting in instead? Potential stress, time increases, unexpected costs from doing it yourself, etc..? Though your previous experience should help mitigate this somewhat.

silicone thrills
Jan 9, 2008

I paint things

SiGmA_X posted:

90-100k outlay for 9.6k annual income before expenses? So you're looking at a decade plus payback period? That's too long term. Control costs further and charge more rent or find another deal, IMO.

So given I have 100,000 to invest - what is a better thing to invest that money in with similar time lines and risk? I honestly don't know of an easier more convenient investment.

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

Tigntink posted:

So given I have 100,000 to invest - what is a better thing to invest that money in with similar time lines and risk? I honestly don't know of an easier more convenient investment.
Vanguard S&P500 index, total market index, etc.. I should say I'm on the pro rental property side of things, based on my folks experiences a few decades ago. I just think your ROI may be a little low, but if you're going to DIY and come in at 40-60k vs 90-100k, that would surely change my opinion. I would make sure to make it connect to the main house pretty easily, locking fire door top and bottom of stairs or something. When it comes time to sell it, an accessible mother in law suite may be a plus, or guest quarters.

ThatBasqueGuy posted:

Are you accounting for the time/labor that you'll be putting in instead? Potential stress, time increases, unexpected costs from doing it yourself, etc..? Though your previous experience should help mitigate this somewhat.
Some people enjoy making things, and it fills both months of hobby time and adds income and equity, possibly. My hands-on hobbies just cost me money, and guarantee to take more money as they work better vs make me money. And don't kid yourself about unexpected costs. You get similar to more with a contractor too.

silicone thrills
Jan 9, 2008

I paint things

SiGmA_X posted:

I would make sure to make it connect to the main house pretty easily, locking fire door top and bottom of stairs or something. When it comes time to sell it, an accessible mother in law suite may be a plus, or guest quarters.
Some people enjoy making things, and it fills both months of hobby time and adds income and equity, possibly. My hands-on hobbies just cost me money, and guarantee to take more money as they work better vs make me money. And don't kid yourself about unexpected costs. You get similar to more with a contractor too.


We are definitely a couple that enjoys making things. We completely remodeled our own kitchen, 2 rooms from top to bottom and we are about to tackle our first bathroom. There's just something so satisfying about stripping something to nothing and building it back up exactly how you want it. We've made a fair amount of furniture together as well. Currently using an 11ft LVL beam that's been sanded baby smooth, stained and clear coat epoxied for our desk so there wouldn't be legs. It's been 3 months since I finished it and I still feel a massive amount of joy every time I sit down at this desk.

We're probably going with the daylight basement 1 bedroom set up. The house I saw on zillow today was literally already sold when I called my realtor. Market is hot as poo poo up here in Seattle. Even if it doesn't end up being rented out 100% of the time (which it will, Seattle is growing so fast that apartment builders can't even begin to keep up with growth), if we ever have a kid, when they are a teenager they are going to be living down there because gently caress living with teenagers. I remember how much of a poo poo head I was. I don't want to live with one.

blugu64
Jul 17, 2006

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
So I've been a long time renter of apartments and rooms, wanting to buy something where I don't have to worry about moving in a year. I've never owned any property, and would appreciate any advise. Is it a horribly dumb idea (financially and life quality) for a late 20s early 30s single guy to buy a duplex and rent out the other half? I'd rather not use a property management company since I'd be right there.

I'd want to live there until I find my ~soulmate~ and buy a single family place (either keeping or selling it depending on the financial situation)

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Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
Anyone have experience with the legal hoops for adding a separate apartment to a property? We're looking at a duplex with a huge garage and would like to look into renovating the garage into one or two apartments. State is VA.

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