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Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
You'll probably get a lot of poo poo posts like Elephantheads here.

Here's a thread on Fatwallet that's been around for more than a decade. Most boards that have to do with investing usually have a rental property thread on it, so just browse around. The main thing I've seen is to make sure your property has good cash flow. Don't get trapped into the logic of "well they're paying down the principal so I'll be making money when I sell" mindset.

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Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

TouchyMcFeely posted:

Things are starting to look a little clearer now. Thanks for everyone's efforts.

I saw a discussion on the BiggerPockets.com forum where you should estimate roughly 50% of the gross rent in operating costs for a property.

Does that sound about right to folks here? That seems awfully high but the people over there seem to trust it and if it's a solid rule of thumb it makes evaluating property a lot easier.

That's about right. It's a purposely conservative number.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

Gringo Heisenberg posted:

I've got a question about property management companies, if anyone has experience with those. When, say, a government organization tells a rental property's management company that X needs to be fixed, what is the process like? Can the property management company go ahead and do it, do they need to get permission from the owner, do they have a certain amount that the owner lets them spend on repairs without needing approval, or something else?

A run down of how property management services run would be great, if someone doesn't mind. The way I loosely understand it, they get the rent and maybe repairs come out of that and they pocket what's left over?

I'm not 100% sure for single family homes, but generally with things like code violations if it's on the outside they can just send someone out to do it. If it's inside, they give a day or two warning to the tenant that someone is coming in. Major repairs will always involve the owner in some way.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
How much is this insurance costing a month? Just from the numbers you're giving it's like $80 a month, which can't possibly cover all those things.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

moana posted:

I'm considering buying another single-family home in a city a couple of hours from where I live to rent out, and would like an outside opinion.

The home is a 4-bd SFR in a semi-rural area on a little over an acre of land. It's priced at $360k which, hey! is coincidentally what my first house cost me. The reason I'm considering this home in particular:

- The house neighbors my uncle's home, and he would manage the property. He's a good handyman and has lots of contractor friends, so I'd be able to get renovations/fixes done on the cheap. I hope to rent to church friends of their family's so we know they'll be good renters. I've rented to lovely tenants before and I don't want to do that again. I would pay my uncle (if he lets me), but it's nice that he would be the property manager for me since I know and trust him.

- The place is semi-rural, down a dirt road right now. However, the area it's in is surrounded on three sides by rapidly developing cities. The county is pushing to be more business-friendly and while the area got hit hard by the recession, it's coming out of its slump and the place is booming with new property development. While my home in San Diego is valued at 90% of its peak price a few years ago, this house (and the surrounding areas) are valued at just 60% of the peak.

In my opinion this house is in an area ripe for development with corresponding value increases. However, if the economy crashes again and it stays undeveloped, it might make a nice home to retire to in the future since I would like to retire on a large, semirural property anyway.

Financial deets:

Savings
I have $60k sitting in the bank right now as a possible down payment and could also get a home equity loan on my first home if I needed to cover any unforeseen costs (I owe $250k, it's valued at $540k, so I don't think that's a terrible risk if I need a little extra $$). I have $120k saved up for retirement and will be continuing to max out my IRA and 401k even with this new debt.

Cash Flow
Right now I make $6k/month pretax at my day job and approximately $8k/month from my side business (this is variable, though). My current mortgage is $2k/month with 14 years left on it, and my expenses are around $3k/month. The new mortgage would likely add an extra $1500-2000 to my expenses, and I'd want to rent it out for $2000-$2500 or so, giving me an 8% return renting it at full capacity. Of course this doesn't take into account tax benefits, etc.

I understand that this kind of return is lowish for real estate, and am looking for ways to lower my down payment so that I have more leverage and a better rate of return. Any thoughts?

Unless you have the financing already, it's pretty drat hard to get an investment property without 25% down. Which it looks like you don't have. I also think they will instantly reject you for having to take out a home equity loan for it (not sure on that one though).

As for the rest, I wouldn't want to be stuck with a house several hours away in a semi-rural area dependent on upkeep from an uncle. I mean, you can take the hit financially pretty easily, but I think there's a much higher chance of it end poorly for relatively little extra cash flow.

Harry fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Dec 31, 2013

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
You do have to factor in that commercial space can be vacant for a while and even a quick turnaround will take like 6 months of no rent.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

moana posted:

I'm certainly not in a huge rush, but with interest rates so low

You keep saying this but it doesn't make sense. If interest rates rise (doubt it), house prices will fall.

Buying houses as rentals has been a really hot investment for a few years now. There's a lot more flipping than you think, and very few people actually hold it for any meaningful time.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

adorai posted:

I don't think it correlates as well as you are implying it will. There are still many cash buyers, and some people who are selling simply aren't able to if home prices fall too much, keeping those properties off the market. I do agree that home prices do move in accordance with rates, but my house isn't going to lose 10% of it's value overnight if interest rates rise by 1% and either are potential investment properties. In fact, some investment properties may even rise in price as potential homeowners are priced out of mortgages and are forced to continue renting.

I never said they'd fall that drastically if it goes up 1%. You sure as hell are going to have a drop in value if they go up to 6% though.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
Depends how much time you have, but there's a thread on Fatwallet that's been active for like 11 years.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/59627/

Pretty much any site that deals with finances has rental property topics. Here's a good one on 2+2. Spex x goes into pretty good detail early on in the thread so I think it's a good read. He talks a little more about finances than the fatwallet one does.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30/business-finance-investing/ask-me-about-real-estate-investing-99351/

Pretty much every site you look at they all say get a property that actually cash flows positive.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
A couple of things off the top of my head:
1) It might be years before they try to purchase it
2) Plans could change
3) Might use eminent domain to buy at a price they deem to be the fair market value (aka not whatever he wants)

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
They're expensive, but you can setup a lockbox at a bank. It will have a fixed mailing address, and just send you a list of check images that were received that day.

As for the tenants needing their hand held, that's just one of the downsides of taking subsidized housing. It's also why a lot of landlords in that situation just include utilities as part of the rent.

As for the property management software, you might want to try this: http://www.yardi.com/markets-we-serve/residential-property-market/single-family-homes-property-management-solution

I've used their multifamily solution before, and I'm imagining it's just the same. Probably going to be a bit pricey though.

Bloody Queef posted:

Did you read his post where he stated that his tenants typically don't have internet or checking accounts? He's kind of dealing with a different situation then is common.

This is actually unbelievably common. Even at nice properties, it's rare to have lower than 20% of the people living there paying by money orders.

Harry fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Sep 1, 2014

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

FlashBewin posted:

Trimming this down to avoid needless details... Not sure if it matters or not, but it's in Michigan.

My sister died and owned five rental properties, condos. I own them now. I have five LLCs and one INC

I have each property in it's own LLC.

Each LLC is owned 100% by the INC.

Not only did my lawyer recommend this, but i also thought this meant that if someone got hurt/something went boom, the injured party could only go after the value/insurance of the LLC.


From what i understand, When tax season comes, i file taxes for me (the guy with a SSN) and taxes for the INC.

My sisters' mentor, who has been renting properties and owning businesses for a long time, said that i should put all five properties into the INC directly, as opposed to the LLC. He also said i should bump my insurance policy (Each property has a 300k policy) up to a million.

So what i have is LLCx5 ----> INC

What he recommended is 5 Properties ---> INC

Which is the right way to go?

When originally setup, that might have been the way to go but I can't imagine it being worth it now.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

Actie posted:

Anyone here got experience with umbrella policies for LLCs? I'm buying a few rental properties with some partners. Each property has its own LLC and its own landlord's policy with a good amount ($1M each) in liability coverage. But we're risk-averse and wary of litigation and would like an additional layer of liability defense.

I'm not sure if we should get one umbrella policy that supplements all the LLCs, or one umbrella policy *per* LLC (meaning several umbrellas total), or what. And I'm not really sure which insurers do what we're looking for (I used Farmers/Foremost for the landlord's policy, but they don't do umbrellas for our case). The properties are in multiple states but all in the NYC area, in case that figures. Anyone here ever tried to do something like this?

Getting even more insurance would just be lighting money on fire for no gain.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

Because you have multi member LLCs and have them split out per property. Combine that with the fact that virtually nothing will cause more than a million dollars worth of damages makes it extreme overkill.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

Actie posted:

Well, I wish this were true, but there are a great number of things that could, in litigation, result in over a million dollars of damages. Is it possible that you missed the fact that I was talking about liability insurance, not premises insurance?

You've already made up your mind. Go get it.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

TouchyMcFeely posted:

I'm confused by your first post.

You gave your landlord notice that you're going to be moving.

If you're moving before the lease is up you're still responsible for paying rent until the lease ends. Unless there's some release in the lease agreement you're still on the hook. You might be able to work with the landlord to get an early release or a discount on what you owe but that is at the discretion of the landlord.

If you're not breaking the lease and you're moving after the lease is up then there's any number of reasons why the landlord isn't looking for a new tenant but that's their problem and not yours.

The landlord said he'd send them the deposit at one point. I can't imagine a scenario where this is anything other than releasing them from their lease.

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Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

Arkane posted:

I'm planning on converting my primary residence to a rental property.

I bought it for 233k. Zillow has it worth $362k (realistically, probably closer to 325k). I owe $158k, and have an interest rate of 2.75% through mid-2020. Don't need the equity for my new home.

My plan would be to rent this for the foreseeable future. I don't need the money, and the home is in a nice area with good schools, so it should be fairly easy as an annual rental with good families coming in (assuming it is priced correctly). I'm expecting a mid single digit return on my equity, accounting for poo poo breaking/non-rental, but wouldn't be surprised by closer to 10%.

It looks like I have two options here on avoiding paying any capital gains: (1) I immediately sell it to an S-Corp or (2) sell it to an S-Corp within the next 3 years (which would allow me to qualify for the 2-in-5 years exclusion). Am I correct in that? And would it not be more advantageous for me to delay selling it to an S-Corp due to my 2.75% interest rate?

I know I need a lawyer/accountant to answer this 100% accurately, but just wondering if I am headed in the right direction here.

There's no real benefit of putting it into an S-Corp. It'll be single member so your liability protection doesn't exist, and you can't sell it to your S-Corp, you would quitclaim it which would probably trigger the loan to being due. And depending on your state, just by having an LLC/S-Corp you have to pay a certain fee. California I think is $900.

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