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I know it's been a couple of weeks, but can we go back to the spider for a minute? (Sorry, I've only just now read the thread.) I know a tiny bit about Buddhist philosophy from my brief stint as a religion major years ago, but this is something I've never quite understood. The spider, in this instance, is ending a life, but is it really causing suffering? An ant's mind isn't really that developed; correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, isn't it debatable whether or not an ant can even be credited with any intelligence, by the conventional definition? Whereas a spider is demonstrably more intelligent - or maybe what I should say is higher-functioning in terms of its mental capacity. Is there any privileging of an animal's mental functions in determining suffering? Anemones and sponges are animals, but they don't really have any mental functions whatsoever, and going by how we think of animals' minds and behaviors, they seem closer to a cabbage than, say, a turtle. Or what about its ecological importance? Spiders have undoubtedly kept some insect-borne diseases in check. I understand that killing is essentially Not Good, but I don't quite understand the equation of animals' killing with humans' killing, which doesn't occur for survival and which is based in malice, something which most animals lack. To use another example, my pet turtles found a snail in a plant I gave them to snack on and killed it. I felt bad for the snail (I didn't see it in the plant), but it didn't "suffer" (in the conventional, not philosophical sense), and provided nutrients for the turtles. They didn't act with any malice toward it; they just recognized it as a food source and quickly killed it to eat it. It's hard for me to think of the turtles having bad karma because of their actions. Which actually brings me to another question -- what is the Buddhist philosophy (or philosophies, if the schools differ) on humans' responsibilities toward animals? I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household in the South, so I'm well aware of the Old Testament imperative for men to act as stewards for animals, but that too often gets interpreted as "we can kill them for sport because God said we're better than they are." Does Buddhism, with its concern for all living things, have any specific views on how humans should treat or engage with them?
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Jun 24, 2013 11:52
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Quantumfate posted:Animal stuff Paramemetic posted:More animal stuff I'm aware of Buddhists releasing rescued turtles, and I have mixed feelings about that (sorry, turtles are my thing  ) since I've heard of them being set loose in ecosystems they don't belong in, which is hazardous to local wildlife and to the turtles themselves, for instance, putting freshwater turtles in saltwater. /turtle stuff On a completely different topic, and this may be a really dumb question, but one of my friends moved to China, began studying and practicing Buddhism, and then as she became increasingly devout, she announced on Facebook that she'd been given permission to enter Tibet, provided that she stayed with her lama (I think it was her lama, but I could be misremembering). Without warning anyone, she deleted her FB account shortly afterward. Is that most likely a personal decision, or is there actually a social or spiritual requirement to be cut off while studying Buddhism in Tibet? I know that's probably the dumbest question, but it really surprised me because I'd been following her posts about her life in China with great interest. Still haven't heard anything from her, and this was maybe a year ago.
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Jun 24, 2013 18:04
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I only just realized I didn't thank people for their answers last time. Paramemetic posted:You might like reading things about, for example, this: http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/08/04/photos-buddhists-bless-liberate-hundreds-of-u-s-lobsters/ . I also read recently of a nun in I believe Seattle whose sangha bought the entire local fishing capture, blessed, and released them. The fish then become a cause for liberation of other fish as they brush up against each other and so on. Thanks for sharing. Quantumfate posted:Parroting wafflehound, deletion of the FB account was probably a requirement of social media restriction more than anything. Coincidentally, bettas are among my favorite animals, and that is kind of a facepalm moment. With female bettas it shouldn't be bad, since they're quite docile, but like you said, most pet ones are male. They are quite good at jumping and relocating themselves to find their own territories, though, so maybe some of them are able to cope with being released? I used to "rescue" bettas from sketchy vendors by buying the sickly ones or ones in the dirtiest conditions and try to nurse them back to health, or to at least give them a place to die comfortably. I bought one from a flea market that I didn't expect to last the night because it was so lethargic and a pale, unnatural grayish color. After a few weeks of care, it became a lovely pink with reddish fins/veils. I kept it in an aquarium, not a bowl, with lighting, heating, filtration, natural live plants, and a little cave it liked to sleep in. It went on to live around five more years. I loved that fish. (For the record, I lived in an area that was definitely not the natural climate for a betta, so a mass release of bettas would just result in a lot of dead bettas.) Now I have a completely different question, also not on the current Zen topic. Can anyone recommend any reading on women in (any school of) Buddhism? I'm always interested in important female figures and feminist issues in any religion. I briefly joined the Catholic church for its veneration of Mary (aaaaand left because I found it to be full of misogynists). I'd like to read some detailed perspective on women in Buddhism or biographies of prominent women Buddhists. Sorry for interrupting Zen chat. 
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Jul 9, 2013 12:26
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