|
I have a question regarding dukkha. I know it means suffering, but hitting a toe against the table's leg also causes suffering and I think that's not called dukkha. Let's say a person likes some food a lot, for example chocolate. This person can go long times without chocolate, but still experiences cravings for it from time to time, thinks about it and toys around with the idea of giving in to the urge to eat it. Is this dukkha?
|
#
¿
Jul 20, 2013 15:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 1, 2024 08:27 |
|
|
Folderol posted:Here's Walpola Rahula's perspective; it's not too long and may be helpful to you in sorting this out: Hmm, so impermanence or imperfection is just as valid translation for dukkha as suffering? I remember how we were told in comparative religion class in high school how according to Buddhism "life is suffering". I wonder what kind of image would've been left to us students if dukkha were traditionally translated to something else. I remember thinking that Buddhism's view must be pretty grim. As a side note, I've seen Dharma Talk podcasts recommended pretty often in this and the previous thread. Has anyone listened to Zencast? I used to listen to it relatively much while jogging. I just wonder why it's Dharma Talks that's recommended so often but I don't recall anyone mentioning Zencast. There's not something wrong with it, is there?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2013 06:28
|
|
|
ashgromnies posted:Imperfection more so than impermanence I think. Impermanence is something else, "annica". Dukkha is more like inherent unsatisfactory nature of all things. Impermanence is that all phenomena are temporary. Imperfection then. As a total sidenote, I'm going to cancel my Audible subscription, but I have a credit left and while browsing I encountered Practicing Mindfulness: An Introduction to Meditation. Because I don't know what I want to buy and that at least concerns an interesting subject, I want to ask your opinion on it, people in this thread. And in case that is some shallow new age podcast, do you happen to know any good audiobooks on meditation or Buddhism?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2013 18:18
|
|
|
I wish to talk with you about music. Is there music that supports meditation? Is it even good to listen to music while meditating? Do you like music that can be considered meditative or "Buddhist-like"? For example I find this track interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHTaCVTqolA It invokes a state of mind in me that can be called tranquil or attentive. By this I don't mean I pay attention to my surroundings more than usual (less actually, because I concentrate on the music), but I find it much easier to sink into this song than many other pieces of music. I haven't yet tried to meditate while listening to it (or any other music for that matter). What could follow, some sort of state of trance? Could it be dangerous? Of course simply listening to music while laying on the sofa with one's eyes closed is pretty close to meditation, so maybe not much will change if I simply sit the way I do when I meditate. I also like certain types of chants and singing. Is there music that can described as Buddhist, the way this song is Orthodox Christian? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXMfn-0VVdA And is there throat singing you'd recommend? I find it also pacifying and meditative.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2013 14:36
|
|
|
Paramemetic posted:Meditating listening to music that seems meant to induce experiences is a form of contemplative meditation, though I wonder what is the motivation for doing that? If it is to realize the illusory and transient nature of experience, how it is arbitrary and can be induced artificially, that's awesome. If it's to have a good time having an experience, that's less awesome but still okay, just be wary of grasping. It's because I want to get deep into the music. I think I tend to listen to the music too superficially, since I rarely take the time to just lie down and listen to it. Usually it's on the background. Sometimes I listen to it when I commute. Therefore I think I may miss something important, especially in an experimental piece such as Ebene. And if listening to it while laying down and concentrating on it is good, it follows that meditating to it is even better. I also like the idea of relaxation that could bring, since I'm sometimes anxious and stressed. Trance also intrigues me. I know that if I have too little time for music it means I cram my schedule too full. There's the gym five times a week, there are books to be read, I'm learning a language and on top of that I play video games or watch tv series. And all that is just on free time. I know a Buddhist would say those are all attachments. In fact I'm actually trying to kick a stupid habit partly because it's attachment and partly because it consumes time.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2013 08:44
|
|
|
Hi again, thread. I posted in the previous incarnation of this thread for the first time ovee two years ago after experiencing a burnout and constant anxiety. Things have gotten better, but anxiety has liked to return from time to time. Yesterday it returned with a blast when my girlfriend said she likes to spend some time by herself and doesn't want close contact right now. This is nothing strange, since we've been together for five years, but anxiety kept me awake the whole night. I went to work in the morning only to return instantly, cause I couldn't bear being there. I also haven't managed to sleep. Apparently I'm pretty codependent. That thing made me anxious because of my alcoholic mother who ruined my childhood. Today I spoke with my friend who us also codependent and suffered from an alcoholic parent. He said his anxiety is a mixture of anxiety and aggression. I noted mine was a mixture of anxiety and fear. Later it hit me. My anxiety _is_ fear, or at least it's one of the ugly fruits that sprouts from the root that is fear. As a 5-year-old I learned to fear for my mother as she disappeared for weeks without warning and fear her as she exploded in rage. Now I recognize that I react to nearly all things by being afraid of them. When I used to fear anxiety, it was actually fear I was fearing. Now that I see the thing as it is, what next? How should one meditate to let go of fear? My anxiety disappeared when I made the realization, but now it has returned. Though I feel more scared than anxious. Right now I'm on a bus going to my aunt for a weekend and I'm scared if I can manage the last 20 minutes of the trip without a panic attack or something.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 26, 2013 15:46
|
|
|
The-Mole posted:Fear is something every human can understand and relate to. It is one of the natural ways our body has of keeping us out of danger. It's very effective, to a point, though when it gets out of proportion, it can become disabling or disruptive. I think I experienced too much fear as a child and thus accustomed to it. At least now that I've recognized it I can change my attitude and way of thinking. I understand it's usually pretty basic things which keep the mind their prisoner. Anger and all sorts of hedonistic feelings such as lust come to mind. But fear is mentioned much less, so it didn't cross my mind that fear might be my hindrance. It feels like there are many quotes floating around attributed to the Buddha according to which it is important to defeat anger in order to achieve inner peace, but there are less about defeating fear for the same purpose. Surely the Buddha must have adressed that as well?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2013 17:58
|
|
|
I know where my irrational fears come from, at least most of them: when I was very small, my mother would sometimes leave me without warning. When I was 5, she'd disappear for weeks and I'd stay with my aunt whom I constantly harassed by asking "when will mom return? Is she still alive?" What I remember especially well is when I was 9 and she went out to buy cigarettes in the morning. She said she'd be gone for 5 minutes. She was gone for 12 hours, since she went into a bar with her friends. She also drank a lot from time to time and I had to take care of her, try to cheer her up and assure her I loved her. Later when we moved to another country she had my little brother but pretty soon my stepdad left us. When I was 13, I had to take care of alcoholic, depressed mom and a little baby. A few times mother tried suicide and threatened to kill my brother and stepdad. Now I'm codependent and my girlfriend's wish to spend more time by herself causes me anxiety. I am seeing a therapist twice a week and next time is Tuesday. I think I did realize a major thing when I noticed that much of my anxiety is fear. Fear's an emotion that's not encouraged to show in our culture and I've probably tried to rationalize it away. Thus it has manifested as anxiety and neuroses and sadness and (self-)pity. Anyway, I haven't yet discussed this realization with my therapist so I'm eagerly awaitung for Tuesday. It makes me really angry that due to my mother my girlfriend has to suffer from this - and me of course as well. We both deserve better. I know where this stems from, but this well of pain and fear is still so loving deep. I will have to focus on concentrating on my body and not fearing anxiety when I meditate. My concentration skills could be better (the mind always tends to wander), so I will have to practice concentration by focusing on a physical object and watching it. I do believe I will eventually overcome this. But so far I want to give my girlfriend space if she needs it without feeling restless because of it.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 29, 2013 17:59
|
|
|
Ugrok posted:It's great that you already know what's behind all this. I think it's a necessary first step. But as you feel already, knowing does not solve anxiety issues ; as you say, i think that now you need to allow yourself to live the difficult, terrible emotions that lie behind your anxiety. Meditation can really help with this since it allows you to deal with whatever comes. I really think you are doing the right things by having a meditation practice and seeing a therapist. Don't be discouraged, as it's a really long process and sometimes feels like three steps forward, two steps back, but be assured that at one point you will feel more at ease with yourself and others. I wish you the best ! Thanks, this kind of reassurance means a lot. I feel this whole thing has progressed really rapidly past few days. Like I wrote earlier, I was spending the weekend at my aunt's in the country. I felt anxious and restless there as well, but picking lingonberries in the forest put my mind at ease. Chopping firewood worked too. During the weekend it struck me how codependent I really am. On Saturday and Sunday I was pretty anxious because of how little my girlfriend was texting with me. So far we've been in constant communication with each other. We live together, but each morning on our way to work/school we've texted each other trivialities such as "have a nice day, I hope you slept well". And when at school or not together we've texted as well. Our fifth anniversary is this month, but I didn't think until now that we've been in way too close a contact with each other. Both my friends and my aunt have said this amount of texting is unnecessary and not normal. (Now that I wrote this it seems clearly like dukkha to me.) When she suddenly dropped the amount of contact during the weekend I got worried if something was on her mind, if she wanted to dump me. Yesterday she finally came through and said she wants to move on her own, because living together causes her anxiety. However she doesn't want to end our relationship. I took it surprisingly well, because for the past day or two I had really thought a lot about how we've been in excessive contact and I had planned to give her space anyway. The fact that she didn't want to dump me made me also happy, since that's what I was fearing. Also if we lived separately I'd have a much better chance at solving my codependency. Yesterday we went to the gym together and I expected us to go home together as well, but she went swimming with her friend. That's when I did something I don't usually do: called my friend and went hanging out. My girlfriend is pretty introverted and when she moved to the city we live in when we moved together she had nobody her but me. She didn't want to see other people that much either. And I accommodated her by letting my other social life stagnate (I had learned to adapt to my mother's needs after all). This year we've been going to the gym which has given my girlfriend a lot more energy and confidence, but I've been stuck in my routine of being either with her or at home and waiting for her to come. I've seen my friends sometimes, but rarely. The ones I've seen the most are my girlfriend's friends as well, so it's "my" friends I have seen the least - the ones who aren't part of her social circle. I've even seen less some of the people she hasn't liked even though she has said it doesn't bother her if I see them. It occurred to me just yesterday how wrong all that is. Now that I've seen it I can't understand how I didn't notice it before, but it was the same with burning out because of too much work two years ago. Anyway, now that I've noticed this I've decided that not anymore: yesterday I want to see a friend, today I'll go to play board games with my fellow students (after seeing my therapist), tomorrow I'll probably watch a movie with the friend I saw yesterday, the day after that I'll go to the local Buddhist sangha (there are meetings for beginners every Thursday, but I've gone only twice in over two years, but now I will be going every week) and on Friday I'll go to a museum with a friend and to another friend's house welcoming party. Earlier the thought of doing new stuff and seeing people made me anxious, because I didn't know how to. But this was surprisingly easy, I made all those plans yesterday. My emotions are still a rollercoaster and I feel frightened when I think about the future ("how will I manage?" - since over two years ago my girlfriend has always been there for me when I've been anxious, and this is what's tired her, but as long as I'm capable to work I'll endure discomfort from time to time), but overall I am hopeful right now.  Even though being hopeful makes me scared as well. But at least I've identified fear as part of my thought process and perspective, which has lessened its power.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 1, 2013 10:57
|
|
|
Folderol posted:So many thoughts come to mind reading this, of which very few relate to Buddhism. You should really cross post this to E/N. Yeah, the same came to my mind. Originally I planned to say only that I'll attend to the local sangha each week from now on, but then all that other stuff came out as well. I won't be posting about this here anymore, at least if it doesn't relate to Buddhism. I won't be starting an E/N thread now either. I guess I just really valued Buddhists' perspective.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 1, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
Folderol posted:You should absolutely keep posting here, because the perspectives in the thread are indeed very valuable ones. I started a thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3573487 I went to the local sangha two days ago. We did metta meditation. I guess it was nice, but there were only five people including me and everyone else clearly knew each other well. There was another man in addition to me, but he left very soon and then I was with three 50-year-old women. We drank tea and ate biscuits after the meditation, but as a guy half their age I felt pretty outsider and uncomfortable. Two previous times I was there the meditation was led by a nice man. The woman who led it this time was nice too, but if it had been that dude I'd have felt more at ease. I hope he's there the next time I go there.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 5, 2013 05:52
|
|
|
Razage posted:Good thread, I often post advice in E/N but the other posters have you pretty well covered. There are others, I think. At least that location had a note according to which it was used by a few other groups in addition to the one I participated with. I'll have to check out if they are as open to beginners as that one.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 5, 2013 22:37
|
|
|
The-Mole posted:Also there was a pretty good quote from a long-dead Buddhist woman (lightly paraphrased), Wow, this kind of perspective was new to me. I'm currently going through an extremely difficult period of my life and I'm clinging to a dysfunctional relationship and to fear of starting anti-anxiety medication. I've been so full of anxiety, fear, worry and stress that I haven't been able to meditate properly either. It helps to see this as a chance to grow out of my codependency and learn to value myself instead of a life-shattering event.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 7, 2013 08:11
|
|
|
I feel as if my concentration isn't strong enough to keep focus on my breath and I've read about practicing concentration in Ingram's Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, linked in the OP. I took a glass and put it on the clean table and just stared at it for 10 minutes. I was surprised when time passed: I thought I had been sitting only 5 minutes. At some point the glass and the table also started to seem very large. Regrettably I have repeated this exercise only once and with a different object (life had happened after that) and it didn't feel the same. Perhaps the object wasn't featureless enough.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 10, 2013 17:15
|
|
|
I just came home from a friend's place and when walking I remembered the walking meditation we did at the sangha I've visited a few times. Just for the sake of trying I decided to slow down to the same pace: perhaps a step a second and small steps, just moving one foot in front of the other. I didn't even want to meditate, just walk. It's weird how different all suddenly felt. I was moving so slowly it felt funny and almost awkward and dumb. At first I felt almost uncomfortable how slowly the trees growing next to the road were going past me. It also felt absurd it might take me 10-15 minutes to walk the last 400 meters to my home. But then I thought, what hurry was I in? I was going to eat and pack a little after getting home and there was no strict schedule for that. The entire day I had either done something with someone or I was going somewhere with a purpose (to do stuff with people). I did have my own time in the early evening, but I used it for a 5 kilometer run, which doesn´t exactly give the mind time and peace to observe its surroundings. This was the loosest I've let my leash today and it felt nice. I've been home for half an hour already and now I don't even want to do much anything, just sit and be. Walking really slowly outside feels different from simply sitting at home. The mind can rest in both situations, but home is very familiar, so the thoughts start to wander much more easily. When walking it was interesting to watch how the wind made the trees move and what the surroundings really looked like. It was also the first time a rabbit spotted me and didn't immediately run. It let me approach it for half a minute at least. I recommend trying that. At first it feels ridiculous how you're almost standing still, not really going anywhere. But do you have to? And are you anyway?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 23, 2013 20:39
|
|
|
Heh, crossing the street did get much more interesting. I was looking for a gap in traffic. Luckily there weren't many drivers since it was 10 PM and I took my 20 seconds to cross the street without seeing any cars.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2013 08:54
|
|
|
The-Mole posted:Also there was a pretty good quote from a long-dead Buddhist woman (lightly paraphrased), Do you know the source for this quote? I'd like to read more about her and her thoughts.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2013 19:36
|
|
|
I have a question about something that has been part of me most of my life. I have always loved nature and animals and therefore felt a lot of pain, anger and anxiety because of how they are treated. Mistreatment of animals has been one of the biggest sources of negative feelings for me. When visiting Russia I made the mistake of going into a pet store and felt awful (too many animals were kept in too small cages). I understand the thought of making the world a better place our own little personal corner at a time. I know the importance of compassion. But what if there is too much compassion? What if I want to save all the animals in the world from mistreatment by humans and suffer because I can't? I have learned to ignore this feeling since there's nothing I can do, but I've always carried it. This thing has been difficult to process, since I haven't heard other people speak about it. However it occurred to me today that this is really a form of feeling suffering for the entire world and wanting to take its weight on one's shoulders. Surely the Buddha, who preached compassion and good thoughts and deeds, said something about drowning in sorrow because of compassion and wanting to save the entire world? There must have been people in his time who were distressed by people suffering from poverty or war and who couldn't help. I'm just distressed because of animals. (I feel so much sympathy towards animals and want to protect them because unlike people they don't understand what's happening if they are imprisoned for example. I imagine a caged animal constantly expecting release and going between hopelessness and expectation. I'm also probably projecting, since I felt lots of hopelessness and despair as a child.) Oh, and I second my request for source for this. Surely there must be? The-Mole posted:Also there was a pretty good quote from a long-dead Buddhist woman (lightly paraphrased), Rurik posted:Do you know the source for this quote? I'd like to read more about her and her thoughts.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2013 21:02
|
|
|
Rhymenoceros posted:In my experience, compassion does not lead to sorrow. Sorrow is perhaps, due to a misunderstanding? There is suffering in this world, but sorrow over suffering is just more suffering. If it's not compassion towards animals that causes me to suffer because of their suffering I don't know what is. Suffering of animals causes me these negative emotions because I care about them, how else could it be? quote:It may be helpful to contemplate what compassion is; what does compassion feel like. From my own experience, thinking about the suffering of people and animals, compassion is always followed by a strong urge or wish; "May you not suffer, may you find ease from this suffering, may you be well, may you be happy." To me at least, it seems that loving kindness is never far away from compassion, so ultimately I think compassion is free from unpleasantness. Hmm. When I think about suffering of animals and people, that kind of wish does not follow. Instead what follows is this choking thought or feeling: "I can't do anything about this suffering, it exists and it is awful but nothing can be done about it. Looking at it will only drown me under it." So it's best to try to look away, even though I know it continues to exist. For example one memory from my visit to Russia causes me grief still, even though it was 2,5 years ago. It was a hot spring day, maybe even +30 Celsius and I was walking outside under a balcony when I heard a strange noise. Three hours later I was walking the same way and this noise came again. I looked up and there was a beautiful big cockatoo on the balcony, straight in the sun, in a cage way too small. I felt devastated. For how long had it been in the sun without food or water in that too small cage? And what could I do to save it? I contemplated going to the door, knocking and offering to buy the poor animal from the owner (if they were home), but what then? There was nowhere I could take it, I didn't even live in Russia and if I released it to the wild it would've most probably died.  quote:It is great to have such sympathy towards animals, but maybe you should try to investigate your perspective; why is your response distress and sorrow? It seems like this might not be the right response, as you are also a being who should not suffer. Meditate and investigate Thinking about suffering of others and how they shouldn't suffer comes much easier for me than thinking the same things about myself. Also, I originally started meditating to cope with my anxiety, so I haven't dared to meditate on thoughts that might cause me anxiety very much. But I feel I might be ready for that too bit by bit. Razage posted:In Shambhala, this is called the "Joyful Heart of Sadness." A very complex notion and I make no claim to understand it completely myself. The issue isn't having too much compassion, that's the notion that gets us caught in close-mindedness. "Oh, I care TOO much about the animals and it hurts me. Therefore the solution is to close myself to their suffering and then I don't feel so bad." It's a slippery slope that can easily lead to a misanthropic view of the world, and causes much more suffering. Heh, I've teetered on the verge of that slope too many times. I've just been too compassionate to slide down it. Could you point me some reading about this Joyful Heart of Sadness? Googling it brought up nothing. I'm very interested in hearing about it, since nowhere have I been able to read about this particular cause for my suffering.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2013 16:16
|
|
|
I have really enjoyed the talks by Ajahn Brahm. In this one he talks about how life gets easier when you don't own things in the abstract sense like "I got a promotion because of what kind of person I am". That's because if you go owning the promotion in that way you have no choice but to own being fired as well if you get fired. I would like to take some distance from the kind of thinking that things happen because of me and because of how I'm like. But I wonder how to stop that kind of owning. If something good happens, should I just remind myself "it's not because of my personality"? Somehow that feels it wouldn't work. Would it be better to search for a cause elsewhere than to emphasize to myself that the cause wasn't me? For example, if my habitual thought response was "it was because of how awesome I am this nice thing happened" (or "it's because I'm so terrible that this bad thing happened"), would it be better to think "how lucky that this happened to me, sometimes you encounter nice things in this world" (or "how unlucky, sometimes you encounter bad things") instead of just denying that the cause was me? Because while taking everything personally is bad removing yourself from everything and becoming detached would be no better either, and focusing on how something has NOT to do with me might lead to that. Focusing on outside causes feels it might be a good approach. I got to say I really like Ajahn Brahm's talks. In the one I linked he tells the importance of keeping in mind that we are good enough as we are and what we do is good enough as well. That thought is really liberating.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2014 13:33
|
|
|
That sounds good, but I feel I'm doing it wrong when I try to think that way but still see it through the perspective of "this happened because of how I am". But I realize that self-centered thinking has had a lot of reinforcement. I'll just have to be patient.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2014 13:56
|
|
|
I have been enjoying Ajahn Brahm's videos. He is wise, compassionate and down-to-earth. I like it how he offers a perspective of how Buddhism can be applied to everyday life. Lately I've been interested in knowing more about Hinduism and Taoism. Are there videos by any good speakers of those religions? I'd rather learn about the subject that way than by reading a dusty 500 page book.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2015 12:05
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 1, 2024 08:27 |
|
|
Crack posted:Besides, the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.  Good one.Thanks for the recommendations, people.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 16, 2015 07:44
|
|