Quantumfate posted:

But the dilemma is that in this instance you are perfectly poised to help a sentient being- Should you intervene on behalf of the ant? On behalf of the spider? Should you remain inactive and simply say Manis and Mantras to help the ant attain a different birth and to help the spider who causes suffering with a necessary act?

Paramemetic posted:

In Tibet where some practices involve hundreds of thousands of prostrations there are additional counters that attach right to the mala to let you keep track of way many more numbers. So yeah. The mala is a tool. It's a religious tool, and often blessed, but it is a tool regardless, so feel free to use it as such.

Also in Tibet they are sometimes used for divination and decision making so there's that. It's really a very utilitarian device. I guess as long as you're not using it to count murders or something it's fine. The only exception I can think of is mala consecrated for use in deity yoga, which need treated with respect throughout the practice at least.

khysanth posted:

I'd really like to try one of these retreats but with a wife who doesn't meditate using all my vacation days for a year for it seems pretty unreasonable.

Quantumfate posted:

Pema Chondrup, big western buddhist writer.

The Dark Wind posted:

I attend a Shambhala center weekly and the leader of the group usually refers to the practice as Samatha, although lately I've also been visiting a Zen center and practicing Zazen.

Rurik posted:

If it's not compassion towards animals that causes me to suffer because of their suffering I don't know what is. Suffering of animals causes me these negative emotions because I care about them, how else could it be?


Hmm. When I think about suffering of animals and people, that kind of wish does not follow. Instead what follows is this choking thought or feeling: "I can't do anything about this suffering, it exists and it is awful but nothing can be done about it. Looking at it will only drown me under it." So it's best to try to look away, even though I know it continues to exist.

For example one memory from my visit to Russia causes me grief still, even though it was 2,5 years ago. It was a hot spring day, maybe even +30 Celsius and I was walking outside under a balcony when I heard a strange noise. Three hours later I was walking the same way and this noise came again. I looked up and there was a beautiful big cockatoo on the balcony, straight in the sun, in a cage way too small. I felt devastated. For how long had it been in the sun without food or water in that too small cage? And what could I do to save it? I contemplated going to the door, knocking and offering to buy the poor animal from the owner (if they were home), but what then? There was nowhere I could take it, I didn't even live in Russia and if I released it to the wild it would've most probably died.




Thinking about suffering of others and how they shouldn't suffer comes much easier for me than thinking the same things about myself. Also, I originally started meditating to cope with my anxiety, so I haven't dared to meditate on thoughts that might cause me anxiety very much. But I feel I might be ready for that too bit by bit.


Heh, I've teetered on the verge of that slope too many times. I've just been too compassionate to slide down it. Could you point me some reading about this Joyful Heart of Sadness? Googling it brought up nothing. I'm very interested in hearing about it, since nowhere have I been able to read about this particular cause for my suffering.

Paramemetic posted:

Also, the whole conception of salvation being necessary is kinda non-Buddhist. I mean, original sin? Heck naw dawg, only cause and effect.

Mr. Mambold posted:

Do you know for a fact we all possess Buddha nature?

First find your own buddha nature, then surprise, surprise. The enlightened mind is neither buddhist nor christian because those are at best, belief methodologies. free means free.

ObamaCaresHugSquad posted:

Do you possess it like you possess your own hand? Do you experience it like you experience typing on your computer?

Do you possess your own hand?

ObamaCaresHugSquad posted:

Paramemetic posted:

Yes and it's awesome. I'm on my phone right now but I'll hopefully remember to get you some material on that.

Edit:

Examinations and the Organization of Debate
Procedures and Rules of Debate

The debate is basically a formalized procedure where they are questioned on and have to prove points pertaining to texts or ideas. There's a pretty neat accompanying "martial art" that involves gestures and clapping when points are "scored."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77BR567yEMM

All in all it's a pretty neat aspect of Tibetan Buddhism. So far as I know, it does not appear in any other forms of Buddhist study.

Blue Star posted:

Even when you die, there will still be the arising of perception, sensation, and so on. You may die, but again, you were just a string moment-to-moment happenings, and those moment-to-moment events of sadness, joy, anger, sight, hearing, touch, taste, lust, boredom, and so on, will still occur elsewhere. It's like if a baseball game comes to an end, there is still the concept of baseball, and there are still other baseball games being played. That particular baseball game, which took place at THAT field on THAT afternoon with THOSE exact players and THOSE exact spectators, ceased. But baseball continues elsewhere. So YOU, as a particular arrangement of sensation, perception, etc. will cease, but sensation and perception and so on will continue elsewhere. There will be new arising of happiness, fear, arousal, and what not.

Guildencrantz posted:

I mean, let's say you have a teacher who has legitimate lineage and suddenly goes off his rocker and makes claims similar to those of a certain poster in this thread. At what point does the Buddhist community exclude this guy, and how does that happen?

ashgromnies posted:

It's inaccurate to say they aren't qualified. Maybe if you read a list of them they aren't, but original Pali suttas describe them in depth.

Paramemetic posted:

Firstly, taking life typically is regarded as referring to that of sentient beings. The definition there varies, but it is generally accepted to be "things that look like they suffer." It's not a very scientifically rigorous taxonomy, and yet it works because we tend to empathize naturally. So like, bugs, for example, are sentient, because when a bug is trapped in a spider's web, it looks like it is suffering. When a bug's leg is off, it looks like it is suffering. Bacteria? Not so much. Fish? They look like they suffer when we fish them up, so yes they are sentient. And so on.

quote:

Taking life is an act of hatred, greed, or delusion because there are no circumstances I can think of that one would need to kill that do not involve that. Killing for food? Greed - why is your life worth more than the lives of your prey? Delusion - why do we tend to think the lives of predators are worth more than those of prey? We're all the same. And so on.

quote:

Yes, it is part of the human condition that we must live with exploitation, that a lot of what we have is based on exploitation and killing and so on. But then again, of course it is! We're in samsara! If we weren't in samsara, there would be no suffering, and there would be no problems from killing, and so on. But we are in samsara, and everything is dukkha. So, practice the noble eightfold path. Don't kill things. If you must kill things, such as to survive, be mindful of this. If you must benefit from killing of things indirectly, such as by eating meat, be mindful of this. Keep these things in your mind so even as you commit them bodily, you renounce them mentally, until you can renounce them completely.

quote:

They are inherent to a samsaric existence involving suffering. They are not inherent to a liberated existence. There is no suggestion they are "wrong." "Right" and "wrong" here are not meant as moral judgment. They are not saying that all sexual activity is a moral bad thing and you'll go to the hell realms for it. Rather, sexual activity is a worldly pleasure, indulgence in it encourages desire and egoistic grasping. Desire is suffering, because desire cannot be fulfilled permanently. Therefore, desiring sexual activity is a cause of suffering. Renouncing sexual activity is a cause of the cessation of suffering.

quote:

Greed is suffering, because desire of material things is suffering. Renouncing material possessions and renouncing greed and jealousy is a cause of cessation of suffering.

Do we need money to survive? Yes. Should we want to survive? Yes, of course, to benefit sentient beings. So do we need to work to earn some money to benefit sentient beings? Yes, naturally. But! That's not greed. That's compassion and lovingkindness. Can we get money totally without exploitation, totally without suffering? Sadly, no, not in the global economy in which we live. But we can do our best.

The Noble Eightfold Path is not a "do all these things and you win" checklist. It is a guideline for the kind of moral conduct that leads to the cessation of suffering. By practicing the path, we reduce our suffering. Perfection of the path comes later, don't worry about perfecting your practice of the path. Do your best, use the path as a map to get where you're going. Straying from the path leads to suffering, but that is expected! We're here in samsara ruled by suffering. Our desires, grasping, attachment, aversion, and so on, all of this causes suffering. We need to reduce this. We reduce this by practicing the eightfold path as best we can.

There is no judgement in the noble eightfold path. Just action and result.

The Dark Wind posted:

Thanks guys, I'm definitely gonna go ahead with this retreat, finances permitting. I've had nothing but great experiences with Shambhala before, and I like Trungpa's teachings a lot, even if he is quite the controversial figure.

The Dark Wind posted:

I just recently moved to NYC and have been going to a different meditation group almost every night.

Prickly Pete posted:

I could be referring to that one. Phone posting keeps me from checking sources, but I feel like there is a specific passage I am thinking of from a sutta that relates loving others as one would a child. Ill look around later. The point is basically the same though.