Ask us about Buddhism: This thread is Avici

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Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Annual Prophet posted:

many thanks for the reply! some areas have more centers and richer opportunities and others fewer, but I'm a bit remote, so it's more the latter here, which always leaves me interested in others' experiences and sanghas. (fortunately, though it was pure serendipity, i happened to find a good group in what for the most part is my own tradition: Soto Zen, though I am shamelessly syncretic and mostly practice oriented).

Yeah, I feel much more drawn to Mahayana than Theravada but welp the latter is that sangha I was talking about, so RIP me. (Well, not really; but you know what I mean.)

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 07:38

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 05:12

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I have a question for the Jodo Shinshu folks such as Senju (I think? Forgive me if I'm missing a nuance):

The core concept of Jodo Shinshu is that you have to abandon yourself to "other power," right? I am curious how this is made compatible with dharma study, organized temple/sangha organization, and so forth, since it seems like these things suggest that you are still trying to do things by "self power."

Also am I searching wrong or are the resources for Jodo Shinshu online kind of lovely, lol.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 10:54

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At a friend's suggestion I watched the episode of "Chef's Table" on Netflix which featured Jeong Kwan's approach to temple cuisine. This basically owned as a television show, although there was far too much input, I thought, from random jagoffs from the New York Times who were saying incredibly basic things.

However one thing which Kwan (Venerable Kwan? unsure, she's a nun) kept seeming to say was that the purpose of the temple cuisine was to encourage a 'static' sort of energy. Is this something actually relevant to Korean practice or was it either an idiosyncracy of hers, or just translators loving it up?

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 05:17

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cerror posted:

At least the terrorists were intentionally targeting Buddhist statues. People defacing Buddhas, thinking they're related to Islam, is just plain confusing, and sad. But, you know, 'Murica.

What is astonishing to me is that it sounds like it's the same guy each time.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2017 10:39

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cerror posted:

Am I the only one who thinks the name Amida Butsu is super fun to say? Give it a try. It's pretty rad.

Nah, mu.

I am being pestered by a Catholic priest I know for what the Buddhist attitude about Jesus is. Specifically about Jesus Himself, mind you, not "Christianity" or "Christian theology." (Apparently they teach them bullshit about Buddhism, though based on his reactions to my amateur summaries, this is because otherwise they'd lose priests to the dharma)

# ¿ Aug 15, 2017 09:15

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Senju Kannon posted:

seminaries are just really bad at teaching people about religions other than christianity unless you specifically do theology of religions, and even then you gotta be really, really fuckin good at it to not come out the other side with some hosed up ideas about like islam or hinduism or buddhism or somethin

He wasn't like, hostile, but there's this idea that it is a nihilistic religion and it's like, no it ain't, buddy. He is at least intelligent enough to avoid things like "But if God isn't going to send you to hell if you act up, what stops you from being that child from a Jack Chick pamphlet who sets out to become a god?"

He did speculate that the concept of monasteries came out of Buddhism, though, which seems plausible to me.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2017 10:55

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Caufman posted:

That would make me want to first start with as uncontroversial a summary of Jesus as possible.

Jesus of Nazareth is the central character in the canonical Greek scriptures read by Catholics. In these stories, Jesus is a Palestinian Jew who lived about two thousand years ago. Throughout his life, Jesus is at the center of astonishing signs and acts of healing. He ministered to people. His sermons can be summarized by his consistent message that to be in harmony with all things and all people for all time, a person should choose to act in and believe in compassion, especially for those who are marginalized or vulnerable. He instructed followers to be merciful to wrong-doers. Even his closest disciples did not always understand him, but he was frequently popularly received.

As he ministered, Jesus became increasingly identified as the Son of God. Although he committed no crime, Jesus was arrested by the authorities and sentenced to death. An audience watched him die by crucifixion, and then he was buried. Astonishing events continued to happen after his death, such as the disappearance of his body and the sighting of angels. His disciples begin to see him appearing and disappearing. In one of their sightings, Jesus tells them that his life and death have triggered events that will literally change life. He instructed his followers to spread the messages he spoke of in his life. They did so.

That's as agnostic a summary as I can make that suggests no intention for the reader to accept the historicity of the written story.

To speak personally, to the best of my knowledge, I have never performed a recognizable Buddhist ritual. That's to say that I'm not a Buddhist, but I try to understand a plausible Buddhist perspective. Again, without suggesting worship or even historic credulity in Jesus, I imagine a Buddhist attitude towards the Jesus story would be deep respect for his audacious claims. He lived as if he was a block against bad karma passing through him and towards another. He took wrongdoing against him without responding with any kind of hurt back towards anyone or anything. He carried this message to his execution. It is plausible that the story of his life and message have ended cycles of suffering, and may continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

How's that?

Well I would think that he is familiar with the outline of this story, as he is a priest of the Catholic faith, which is historically noted for at least a lukewarm positive attitude towards Jimmy C. I think the latter stuff would be more what he was looking for, although he may have also been wondering if Buddhism specifically denies Jesus existing, etc. My loose understanding is that it would be irrelevant to the actual through-line of seeking liberation in Buddhism, even if it may be a fun historical conversation.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2017 11:05

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Senju Kannon posted:

all i can say is, having taken classes with catholic seminarians, you're giving them more credit than i'd give, especially if they're not jesuit

Guy in question did go to a Jesuit school though I don't think he was himself a Jesuit. Good points all around!

I would kind of disagree that Buddhism and Christianity are working towards exactly the same ends in the specific sense of their internal realities and perspectives, although the broad message of 'be a good person' is there, and I guess you can certainly draw analogies between things like faith in the Primal Vow and some forms of Protestant 'pray to Jesus and be saved, probably; nothing else necessary'

Part of why I have talked to this guy is general faith development, I also had to sort of half-assedly explain the concepts of karma and suffering to him since I think his idea was that it was something like "that small child with cancer did something to earn that cancer."

# ¿ Aug 15, 2017 20:57

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Caufman posted:

Put differently, I wonder if Jesus of Nazareth were born 2,500 years ago as a prince of India or if Siddhartha were born 2,000 years ago as an unknown Palestinian Jew, would they have lived radically differently from our pairing? That's an unanswerable hypothetical, but I'm suggesting it's not a useless one to ask.

I feel like this is comparing apples and pineapples because these are drastically different backgrounds and the conditions in either case would fundamentally alter the individual's situation. Also, had Jesus lived to 80 and given huge swaths of teaching in those years, Christianity would no doubt be quite different than what we know today.

I think they have broadly similar moral messages, but most religions have similar broad moral perspectives, with the differences being in nuance, emphasis, and the reasoning behind them.

If I was going purely on doctrinal clarity in the original texts and subsequent interpretations, Christianity does pretty poorly.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2017 08:32

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What does "holiness" mean here? (I'll give you compassion.)

# ¿ Aug 18, 2017 09:38

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Senior Scarybagels posted:

That's what I thought, apparently according to the guy, buddha should be reincarnating any time now, unless he is also implying that he is Buddha.

Edit: Apparently he is making that proclamation. El Cantare is the Supreme Buddha apparently.

I think Maitreya would have the same kind of consciousness as Shakyamuni but would presumably not be identical due to that. Wasn't there a sutra where the Buddha named some other Buddhas in 'inaccessibly distant realms'?

# ¿ Aug 21, 2017 19:15

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Senior Scarybagels posted:

To be fair, he also claims Hermes is a previous life of Buddha too so I don't know if he had a strong grasp of the story in the first place.

Lotta people don't seem to get this Buddha thing even a little.

Or don't want to. I read about how the Hare Krishnas claim that Shakyamuni was a manifestation of Krishna in order to trick atheists into worshiping God. I was like, "man, rude."

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 12:12

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Are you doing much practices or are you mostly there to work?

# ¿ Sep 22, 2017 00:55

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Paramemetic posted:

They are preparing a lot of texts to be distributed as part of the event and that includes digitizing texts. During the proofread they hit a series of words that seemed off and so three of them all started reciting the text from memory until they hit the phrase, came to a consensus on it from their memorization, and corrected it accordingly.

Re: Nessus: work is a practice.

I'm mostly here to work but I'm keeping up on my daily practices. I am working on preliminary practices so there's nothing I could coherently add to my daily practice anyhow.

Wisdom.

Did they start from the very beginning of the text, or do they kind of have it memorized as chapters?

# ¿ Sep 22, 2017 05:18

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Young Shakyamuni looks swag as hell. Was that one of the many signs of a superior being, swag?

# ¿ Oct 9, 2017 21:07

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Laocius posted:

Hey Senju Kannon, I'm writing a paper on Pure Land ethics and I was wondering if you could point me to any good sources. Specifically, I'm researching how Pure Land thinkers have answered the question of "Why should I act morally if I'm going to be reborn in the Pure Land either way?" Sources related to any branch of Pure Land Buddhism would be fine, but I would think Jodo Shinshu thinkers would have some of the most interesting ideas. Thanks in advance!

I totally just had the cross-religious flash of: Is this where the Jack Chick style of "Pray to Jesus once and be guaranteed heaven" got the idea from? :catstare:

http://www.bdkamerica.org/book/pdf-commentary-text-tannisho-strategies-modern-living - this has commentaries on the Tannisho also, which address some of the issues you discuss in passing. (I guess I got one of the last paper copies!)

# ¿ Oct 27, 2017 00:44

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Senju Kannon posted:

i mean, it is a similar vein tbh. i�m not up on calvinist history or the theology of american evangelicals but there are some superficial similarities between the two, though there isn�t double predestination in jodo shinshu

Yeah other than the rote mechanical action involved the two are completely different, but it would be tremendously funny if this, of all things, came out of poorly-understood Buddhist practice. It does look like the first attested form of "the Sinner's Prayer" came in a book written by a guy in California in the early 20th century.

Isn't there a very limited form of pre-destination floating around? Like the bodhisattvas and Maitreya, who presumably is at press time extant somewhere. At the same time I suppose these were ultimately things the persons in question decided to do long ago.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2017 07:13

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Tias posted:

Oh hey, I never realized there was a buddhist thread? I'm taking remedial religion 101, I may have some dumb questions about buddhism come exam time.

I'm a practicing norse pagan reconstructionist, but I have a great deal of respect for buddhism because of the focus on self-improvement and compassion!

https://www.lionsroar.com/the-buddha-statue-found-in-an-ancient-viking-hoard/

The boundaries may be more porous than you'd think.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2017 06:40

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It seems like it would be a difficult path to walk, between the relative paucity of original materials, the super new age types on the left, and :hitler:

on the right. I also enjoyed your postings in the liturgical thread.

I imagine a lot of our crossover is because of the phenomenon my priest friend I mentioned a while back described: He may not think I'm on the right path, but like, he doesn't have to half-apologize for being a clergyman to me.

Nessus fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Oct 31, 2017

# ¿ Oct 30, 2017 07:18

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Senju Kannon posted:

look at what i made today

Noice

Is that an "abaj" I see there? Translate it for us, I don't recognize any of 'em

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 06:07

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Senju Kannon posted:

namu amida butsu, 南無阿弥陀仏

Ah but was it a spontaneous expression

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 06:39

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And won't you end up in the borderlands anyway, just for making the effort? (The books I got were kind of ambiguous.)

Anyway that is super cool, what was the occasion for making it?

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 12:51

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Laocius posted:

Just search for Fo Guang Shan or the International Buddhist Progress Society. They're a Taiwanese Humanistic Buddhist organization. Wikipedia calls them a "new religious movement," but from what I've gathered thus far, their interpretation of Buddhism seems pretty orthodox, albeit very accommodating to modernization.

Seems like their main thing is marketing but they don't seem to have become a megachurch, they're just willing to use the methods. Seems legitimate to me.

What does "Humanistic" mean in this context? Do they not bring up things like rebirth? If I saw "humanistic Buddhism" here in America I'd probably think "oh OK it's some people who are preaching Buddhism with all the bits that scare educated liberals filed off."

# ¿ Nov 21, 2017 07:21

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Reading up, seems like it's a focus on how the Buddha was a human being and not a god, otherwise seems pretty orthodox, just more outreach-y.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2017 07:55

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Laocius posted:

Yeah, "humanistic" basically just means that they're focused more focused on engaging with the human realm, rather than detaching from society or obsessing about death and ghosts. Of course, it's clearly a matter of degrees, since the service I went to involved a lot of prayers for the dead. They're also notable for making greater use of technology than more traditionalist organizations, to the point that it starts to approach megachurch territory sometimes. The service I went to just had some slide projectors and earpieces so that those of us who don't know Chinese could follow what was going on.

Flashy technology and slideshows and such are getting much more common for non-wacky-megachurch faith communities, in large part because the stuff is getting cheaper by the day. While of course we do not necessarily want this entering into monastic spaces, there would seem to be no harm in at least exploring its use in public services like this.

Were you getting a live translation of the sermon?

# ¿ Nov 21, 2017 21:19

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Senior Scarybagels posted:

As a member of the Fo Guang Shan, you guys have it pretty much down. I decided upon Fo Guang Shan for its more outreach-y style of action in the earth-realm and the fact it does not sequester you away from others, especially when others are suffering.

Do they not have a monastic arm? Or do they just avoid the full cloistering?

# ¿ Nov 22, 2017 02:17

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Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:

I had some of the features of Quake's e1m2 pop into my head while I was meditating earlier today

Is that where you got your doctorate?

I get the occasional flash on MMO landscapes that I recognize.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2017 05:59

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Tias posted:

No, my mind often starts playing back the theme from Airwolf for some reason.

The radiance of loving-kindness has much in common with Airwolf if you think about it.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2017 12:16

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One possible way to help yourself get past this might be to figure that the path is imperfect, but since we can't at this moment dissect the full details of how Practice X achieves Liberation Y when done according to Routine Z, the best thing to do is to pursue the established route that has achieved success. Maybe the unusual sounds, acts, and so on activate subtle psychological or physiological cues that we will in time understand better in order to liberate sentient beings.

Though speaking of sectarian practice, it's a little funny to me when I can look at pop Buddhism books and see their sectarian bias. If only my local library were better supplied!

# ¿ Jan 3, 2018 21:56

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What do you mean when you say polytheism? I think bodhisattvas are considered to be very powerful beings but they are not possessed of the qualities of the Abrahamic god or anything. Saints would probably be a better analogy.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2018 01:28

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Keret posted:

So, firstly, I have been mulling over the implications of the second precept recently � the vow not to take what is not freely given � and how it relates to my hobbies and undertakings in life. One of my biggest hobbies as of late is photography, and specifically with documentary and street photography, which usually involves taking candid photos of people and places around the city. It occured to me the other day, though, when discussing it with my girlfriend that the act of taking a person's picture without their expressed consent could be considered an act of theft. Thinking this over, it increasingly seemed to me that if that were true, those acts would run counter to the second precept. What do you all think, does the act of taking a person's photograph without explicit consent in public constitute theft from a Buddhist perspective, and does it run afoul of the second precept?

If this is the incidental presence of people in scenes, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Of course if it's featuring them to a recognizable extent then you should secure consent.

You might err on the side of not harming by trying not to get faces in your photos, given all this development of face-tracking software...

# ¿ Mar 19, 2018 21:58

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I was reading something incredibly depressing the other day - a work of philosophical pessimism, not like, "a bad news article" - and I immediately thought of the bodhisattva vow and other Buddhist concepts in response to the points the author raised, and eventually came to the conclusion that he needed a hug and perhaps a meditation coach.

I suppose this is progress! Really, I thought the problem was that he approached the general problem of suffering on the assumption that even if somehow everything currently extant ceased to be, that this would actually STOP anything as opposed to meaning suffering would arise in another location at some future date.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2018 00:23

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I suppose this is a morbid way to revive the thread but you folks have guided me to a religion so I suppose it is fair enough.

My grandfather died early this afternoon and I loved him tremendously, I was closer to him than to my father. It was not a great surprise - though it happened during a relatively minor operation. To complicate my own attachments, I was economically dependent on him and I was also in practice a sort of adopted youngest child based on the various age cohorts. I'm lost and afraid and while I suppose "prayers" is the wrong word, I would appreciate guidance. (A mild complication is that he was Jewish and so are his birth relations, though I am not - somewhat acculturated but not even a "lapsed" Jew.)

# ¿ Apr 17, 2018 23:20

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With the "scan your body" thing, what is your mental block? Probably the best outline I've had is that there's that kind of proprioception - like if you tighten up your back muscles or suck in your gut, the part of your body that knows that "suck in your gut" translates to that. If you do it on purpose you can kind of reach the phase where you have gotten to the point immediately prior to "activating that muscle" without actually activating it.

Interior stuff seemed to be entirely visualization, although I would not be surprised if advanced practicioners were able to detect upsets or growths in themselves.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2018 19:45

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Paramemetic posted:

Sorry to hear about this - just because it's inevitable doesn't mean it's easy to lose people who are close to us. If we didn't have attachment to those around us, if we didn't cling to our dear ones, then this whole birth and old age and sickness and death business would be pretty easy, I guess. What are you looking for in terms of guidance? I can't tell you anything special, I don't have any magic words to make the suffering go away, but be with it, recognizing it as what it is, looking at where it comes from, and where it will go to. Don't try to imagine your emotions aren't real, let them come, but do look at what they come from.

All composited things in this world are impermanent. All we can do is have great compassion for them while they - and we - are here.

It sounds like your grandfather taught you well and took care of you, and so I am grateful for him to have had such a positive impact on you.

I don't know precisely what I want unless you have Kshitigarbha on the line and can put in an order for me. If you have a mantra or something to suggest I'd welcome that, but other than that I can tell you that what you've said to me already is a lot of why I've done as well as I have - and perhaps more importantly, that even when I have been cracking up I have been able to be mindful about it. Maybe only a little mindful, but a little plus a little plus a little makes a lot.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 02:15

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Boris Galerkin posted:

This is the stuff I�m talking about. I really don�t believe this is true or even possible. I�d like to avoid anything or anyone or any app that suggests otherwise, unless it�s from a peer reviewed journal. When I hear this it�s no different than hearing about people who can survive on air or whatever.

I suppose this explains why so much English-language Buddhist materials has focused on things like elementary neurology studies, to my own great aggravation. I hope you get benefits from what you do manage to do! I was thinking in terms of what Cephas is describing.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 06:25

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Boris Galerkin posted:

In the end, I feel more calm, relaxed, and I guess centered no matter which of the above I do. My question is why can't I think about my feelings to figure out the root causes of why I'm feeling that way? Why can't I pursue an idea that comes to mind?

I don't think there is anything wrong with such thoughts, but you want to not do that while meditating. You don't have to be in a constant state of meditation. And, if you have the secret to nuclear fusion come to you during a sitting session, you can break the session and go write it down, the Buddha won't come and beat you up for that.

I'm not really a meditation coach so take this analogy with several grains of salt and the full knowledge that it may be corrected: The interior dialogue you describe would be better if replaced by something along the lines of 'watching' the thoughts. Don't engage, just let them float past like clouds in the sky.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 08:51

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Senju Kannon posted:

check out this nembutsu "caligraphy" i made

not the true nembutsu but still good

Nice (in a way free from attachment)

# ¿ May 19, 2018 20:05

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I've found it persistently weird how there's like this strain in Western Buddhist thought which is basically "all this Buddhism stuff isn't real anyway; and we don't mean in the sense that nothing is objectively real, we mean it's all a song and dance and you have to find your own path, right?" And then of course you have the strain which is just neurology studies.

Of course I might just be salty because of the relative paucity of Mahayana material I've been able to lay my hands on :v:

# ¿ Jun 25, 2018 13:09

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 05:12

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Cephas posted:

It's easy to convince someone to try a stress-reduction and relaxation technique, it's harder to convince them to adopt a different worldview. I've noticed that in several of my friends who were raised Christian and turned away from it, spirituality and philosophy are sore spots. Some of them feel pretty strongly that "if there are a thousand philosophies and religions that all say that they're right, then that means they're all moot and I should just trust my own intuition." I think for someone in that mindset, it's a lot easier to accept "sitting quietly can help you unwind" than "sitting quietly can help you witness the inherent nonself of conditioned phenomena"

I wouldn't want to deny anyone the benefit of the dharma, of course, but the insistence that the benefit of the dharma CAN ONLY be this and that, and not the other thing and the other other thing, and that besides which it was really old superstition anyway, just like pervades the entire English-speaking situation.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2018 13:02

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