|
Also, no one here cares what you make (high or low) or spend. We are just geeks that love deciphering financial puzzles. Safe room
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 15:26 |
|
|
The issue with a percentage budget is that it isn't going to scale smoothly with income, so if you are making minimum wage and you post a budget that shows you are spending 30% of your income on rent, that is very different than if you are making six figures and doing the same - you can still do it, but you'll need to put the advice in context. Or give people an idea of where you are falling in income.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 03:05
|
|
|
Posting a REAL NUMBER budget was immensely helpful for us to get some perspective on our financial struggles coming into the beginning of July 2016, and the insight we received put us on the right track toward sustained change for the positive. Updates I do in the form of percentages, but nothing beats the real bottom line.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 15:11
|
|
|
Here is my percentage budget. Some of it is based on approximations. As for the amount, let's just say are within 10% in either direction of the average income in MA (which google says is 67.8K, so 60k to 75k).code:
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
can you please for the love of God put that in dollar terms
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
The excess of food things cannot be overstated. You're running 12.7% on groceries, lunches, and entertainment. That's a lot. You'd be better dropping that 2% and doubling your student loan payments. More later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2017 17:39
|
|
|
Yea, the fact that you are paying as much for lunches as all the rest of your groceries is probably not good, and you are paying twice that again on eating out and entertainment. You should probably look at that to get some of it under control. What is going on with your gas? Based on the ballpark, it looks like you're spending something like $250-$300 a month on gas for your car. I don't know if there is anything you can do about that, but it should be on your mind. You don't seem to have any amount pegged for shopping - stuff like clothes, hobbies, etc. Unless that is coming in under 'Misc Crap' and 'Entertainment'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
PhantomOfTheCopier posted:The excess of food things cannot be overstated. You're running 12.7% on groceries, lunches, and entertainment. That's a lot. You'd be better dropping that 2% and doubling your student loan payments. Good catch. A decent rule of thumb is ~$250/mo/pp for groceries. That could be high/low depending on your tastes, but a decent benchmark to look at. That would mean you're dining out at $1,000/mo (assuming $250 for groceries, problem with %s...) for you alone? That's crazy. I have a family of five and we routinely spend about $250-300/mo for ALL of us. Huge area to cut back right there. I'm guessing you're either letting a lot of groceries going to waste/rot or being excessive on your socializing. Also, would be very helpful to know what area of the country you live in. Can move the advice around considerably.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2017 17:54
|
|
|
TraderStav posted:Good catch. A decent rule of thumb is ~$250/mo/pp for groceries. That could be high/low depending on your tastes, but a decent benchmark to look at. That would mean you're dining out at $1,000/mo (assuming $250 for groceries, problem with %s...) for you alone? That's crazy. I have a family of five and we routinely spend about $250-300/mo for ALL of us. Huge area to cut back right there. I'm guessing you're either letting a lot of groceries going to waste/rot or being excessive on your socializing. A percent is about $56 if we assume the middle of the range he gave. He's spending very little on groceries, a lot on lunches and eating out. Internet is expensive as well as the rest of the utilities.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
asur posted:A percent is about $56 if we assume the middle of the range he gave. He's spending very little on groceries, a lot on lunches and eating out. Internet is expensive as well as the rest of the utilities. I'll wait for a $ denominated budget, just guessing a tea-leaves otherwise!
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
seriously if someone on the Internet knows you make sixty versus seventy five what bad things are gonna happen to you edit: at min misc car looks low, and even if you have a paid off car you should probably be budgeting some money for a replacement KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 11, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
Thanks for the comments. To everyone complaining about percentages: Sorry. I have a thing about revealing personal information online, even pseudonymously. It took a lot to talk myself into doing even this much. Sorry if that's crazy.PhantomOfTheCopier posted:The excess of food things cannot be overstated. You're running 12.7% on groceries, lunches, and entertainment. That's a lot. You'd be better dropping that 2% and doubling your student loan payments. Ashcans posted:Yea, the fact that you are paying as much for lunches as all the rest of your groceries is probably not good, and you are paying twice that again on eating out and entertainment. You should probably look at that to get some of it under control. I had also thought about doubling the student loan payment, but that did not factor into this version of the budget. Although I have also thought about just paying the whole thing off, since I have enough saved to do it, but then I can't even pretend I have a down payment on a home. Ashcans posted:What is going on with your gas? Based on the ballpark, it looks like you're spending something like $250-$300 a month on gas for your car. I don't know if there is anything you can do about that, but it should be on your mind. Ashcans posted:You don't seem to have any amount pegged for shopping - stuff like clothes, hobbies, etc. Unless that is coming in under 'Misc Crap' and 'Entertainment'.  I guess) and I hate when I look at a possession that I don't use. You're right that I should have added clothing to the budget somehow, but I don't buy frequently enough to even hazard a guess. I'll do some googling and try to get an estimate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 00:03
|
|
|
the quality of advice that you receive won't be as good if you don't put the budget in dollar terms because people have a really hard time thinking about 0.6% of 75,000. just pretend you make five grand a month and update all that poo poo to be dollars
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 01:09
|
|
|
I get not wanting to post exact figures here, even if no one cares what you make - I've never posted a dollar budget here myself for the same reason, although initially that was mostly out of embarrassment over how poor I was  It does impact the advice you get, but you can still learn stuff without it. I'm going to move off your budget for a second to talk about what your goals are here. You don't have any rent/mortgage in this calculation, so I assume that right now you are living with friends/family/under a bridge to avoid that expense - but you're also talking about possibly buying a place? Not sure what exactly your life situation is, but I am always hesitant about people jumping straight from 0 - 100 like that. Renting isn't a waste unless you're getting ripped off, and it can give you a chance to test out different neighborhoods and living arrangements before you buy anything. Before you buy something you want to be really sure that's a place you are going to be happy living with for a while. This also works financially - if you bite off more than your can budget, as a renter the worst case scenario is to just stick it out and move - if you buy a place, its a lot more painful. Maybe you already have this all worked out, I don't know! For stuff like clothing, one option is to pull a large section of your credit card/debit card history and work out what you have spent in, say, the last six months. Then you can use that as a guess for your normal spending, and put it into your budget. I do most of my clothing shopping twice a year, basically when I switch seasonal clothing out of storage and into the wardrobe and discover what I no longer like or want to replace. This will at least give you something to work with. One of the big first steps on budgeting is just realizing where your money is going, so you're off to a start. Now you get to work out what you really want to be spending. I found that lunches were really my worst value spending - they tended to be expensive, but weren't really so much better for that cost than packed ones. I was spending a bunch of money to basically not have to bother with a few minutes of work. Once I started realizing how much money was getting flushed away like that, it was easier to switch habits.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
Percentages are easy and good, as you learned instantly when you ran the numbers and saw how much of your life is going to entertainment. It's the goon readers responsibility to put their monthly in and see how it compares to their life. You might need more for the car if there's maintenance coming up, particularly if it's an old car and you put so many miles on it. Dropping entertainment is tough but that money can be better used elsewhere for a while. Don't bottom savings to pay a student loan. If your loan interest is good and double payments delay your next payment (check paperwork or try it with a single extra payment) then you can delay payments in an emergency, but you still need your savings during the emergency. If burning 20% of your savings drops your lifetime interest considerably, it may be worth it. (To be clear, when I was paying student loans, in January I sent double and didn't owe until March. In February I sent double and didn't owe until May. Right before I paid it off my next due date was fifteen years away.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 01:30
|
|
|
You straight up cannot afford a house on that budget.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 11:27
|
|
|
For those that failed their multiplication tables in first grade:code: `awk '{print $0"\t"int($NF*600/12)"\t"int($NF*675/12)"\t"int($NF*750/12)}'` and a couple of minor editsEdit: Well you wanted monthly amounts probably, haha. PhantomOfTheCopier fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Sep 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 13:06
|
|
|
And I don't like to double post, but instead of making that 'table' twice as wide and offending more cellular phone users, I'll go ahead and post this separately.Magnetic North posted:Here is my percentage budget. Here's a different way to think about this: code:As to possibly-missing categories: No pets? Extra, routine health expenses not covered by insurance? Hobbies not covered under miscellaneous? Monthly parking fees for the commute? Just as a note, I find the dollar values make this evaluation harder because they confuse the relative differences between items.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 13:31
|
|
|
Dollar values allow for easy direct comparison to say, what I spend on electricity / internet / etc to see if those values in absolute terms are out of line. I know my internet service costs $40/mo but I don't know offhand that it's 0.8% of my monthly gross. 95/mo for internet cable whatever at the 60K base is probably reasonable, 118 at the 75K base is less so.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 13:52
|
|
|
Here's our monthly spending having pulled out all our retirement and 529, after taxes. Basically in order of magnitude: Subsidies in pursuit of indefensibly high levels of consumption: Student Loan Payment 8.8% Mortgage 7.3% Car Payment 1 5.9% House Cleaning 4.8% Groceries 2.8% Car Payment 2 2.5% Car Insurance 0.5% Daycare 2.2% poo poo MMM would HATE: Furniture Fund 2.2% Restos 1.7% Gasoline 1.5% Lawn Care 1.3% Phone Plans 1.1% Upcoming Travel 1.1% Household Maintenace 0.9% Gym Memberships 0.9% Vacation Savings 0.8% Other creatures in our house: Baby Stuff 1% Dog Stuff 0.7% Regular old utilities: Internet 0.5% Netflix 0% Electricity 0.3% Water, Trash, Recycling, Sewage 0.6% Natural Gas 0.3% Miscellaneous Crap: HOA Fee 0% Car Registration 0.3% Spending Money 0.4% Copays 0% Household Goods 0.4% Entertainment 0.4% Pharmacy 0.2% Car Maintenance Savings 0.2% Birthdays and Gifts 0.4% Christmas Savings 0.4% Charity 0.4% What's nice is that we have basically half our monthly take-home for long term financial goals.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
I want to know what your income bracket is where you only spend 1% on a baby.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
Ashcans posted:I want to know what your income bracket is where you only spend 1% on a baby. Two doctors IIRC, and also there's a separate childcare line so I assume that's "stuff for baby"
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
Yeah somewhat disingenuously "house cleaning" subsidizes a family member to be able to provide part time childcare, daycare is a second line item and "Baby Stuff" is quite literally just STUFF for the baby - clothes, toys, diapers, wipes. Kids are expensive.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
I missed the childcare line, so that definitely makes a difference (also two-doctor family). I wish that we could get childcare down to 2%, these little guys are crushingly BWM. Only one more year left and our youngest will be in kindergarten though! We'll still have aftercare costs and sitters sometimes, but wiping off that daycare fee will be a huge relief.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 16:34
|
|
|
Thanks for all the input.Ashcans posted:I'm going to move off your budget for a second to talk about what your goals are here. You don't have any rent/mortgage in this calculation, so I assume that right now you are living with friends/family/under a bridge to avoid that expense - but you're also talking about possibly buying a place? Not sure what exactly your life situation is, but I am always hesitant about people jumping straight from 0 - 100 like that. Renting isn't a waste unless you're getting ripped off, and it can give you a chance to test out different neighborhoods and living arrangements before you buy anything. Before you buy something you want to be really sure that's a place you are going to be happy living with for a while. This also works financially - if you bite off more than your can budget, as a renter the worst case scenario is to just stick it out and move - if you buy a place, its a lot more painful. Maybe you already have this all worked out, I don't know! I've been posting on SA and talking to friends in an attempt to find discouragement because my inner coward wants me to rent but my inner romantic wants to buy (and my inner financier is telling to do it for various true and untrue reasons). I am under no financial illusions about renting like my loving boss trying to convince me that renting is 'throwing money away'  (Sure, I get it, a house is often better but renting is fine.) What is annoying is I can't get any renters to loving return my calls or emails. That's how I got into thoughts of buying; I got tired of getting ghosted by people who I was going to give thousands upon thousands of dollars to. I guess I'd just be trading landlords for realtors at that point.This budget might just be the discouragement I was looking for. I am very probably not financially mature enough to buy a home. Ashcans posted:One of the big first steps on budgeting is just realizing where your money is going, so you're off to a start. Now you get to work out what you really want to be spending. I found that lunches were really my worst value spending - they tended to be expensive, but weren't really so much better for that cost than packed ones. I was spending a bunch of money to basically not have to bother with a few minutes of work. Once I started realizing how much money was getting flushed away like that, it was easier to switch habits. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Percentages are easy and good, as you learned instantly when you ran the numbers and saw how much of your life is going to entertainment. It's the goon readers responsibility to put their monthly in and see how it compares to their life. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:You might need more for the car if there's maintenance coming up, particularly if it's an old car and you put so many miles on it. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Don't bottom savings to pay a student loan. If your loan interest is good and double payments delay your next payment (check paperwork or try it with a single extra payment) then you can delay payments in an emergency, but you still need your savings during the emergency. If burning 20% of your savings drops your lifetime interest considerably, it may be worth it. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:As to possibly-missing categories: No pets? Extra, routine health expenses not covered by insurance? Hobbies not covered under miscellaneous? Monthly parking fees for the commute?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2017 23:24
|
|
|
I'm sure you don't want to tell me where you are located for ~reasons~ but in most of Boston inside 128 you need to use a broker to rent an apartment. It's possible to do it without (I have friends who have done so) but it's very, very difficult. There's a big place right near your work - what about a smaller place near your work?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 11:46
|
|
|
Too hard to quote/edit right now, but in terms of interest: $40k at 5% for 10yr is nearly $11k lifetime interest. $40k at 5% for 5yr is just above $5k lifetime interest. $19k at 5% for 10yr is also just above $5k lifetime interest. Pay double routinely to cut your interest by 50%, or pay off more than half of it right now to save the same amount. Check loan calculators for your best choices.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 15:01
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:Thanks for all the input. Just because you're packing a lunch doesn't mean you need to eat lovely food. Make a big batch of something you like, and portion it out. I like to make a big batch of chili and then heat it up at work.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
New year approaching! NYE weekend is a great time to do your taxes, check your 2018 withholding, and start up a shiny new budget and personal savings/investment plan!
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 04:27
|
|
|
Because of the nature of my job and being an entrapaneur, I don't know what my income will be. Sometimes its a lot per month, sometimes not so much. If you really don't know what your income will be month to month, how do you deal with that? I'm very clear and up to date on my expenses, but the income disparity keeps me from being able to make any budget work in my head.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 17:29
|
|
|
Plan for the year. Incomes in higher months must be allocated to the future to ensure coverage, and all accounts must be filled in excess of the lowest/poorest consecutive months of earnings before any income can be considered "spare" or movable. It's no surprise that I'd advocate a percentage budget here. Income may rise or fall, but the percentage allocated to rent will remain the same. One must have an honest estimate for the year, include the necessary savings buffers per expense account to create breathing room, and have the willpower to leave money untouched when committed to a future purpose.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 17:39
|
|
|
That's great understandable advice. I will look into the percentage budget. Thankfully, I do know all my expenses so I feel capable of doing this. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 05:15
|
|
|
The hardest part will be to not spend in times of feast so focus on that. My mother suffered from that. She'd get a month of high income and go on a spending spree and then struggle to pay her quarterly taxes. She had social security to back her up, but that didn't make it any less stressful.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
On your low months, is your income still enough to cover your expenses? Or are you in a situation where you need to use high months to cover low months? If your income is always over your expenses and it's just a matter of how much, then you can make a budget based around your lowest reliable income to cover all your expenses, and then allocate the excess in some organized way - ie, once your expenses are covered, the excess is split with X going to savings, Y going to retirement, Z going to discretionary, etc. So a low month, maybe you just cover your expenses, on a high month, you make sure you are putting money toward sensible savings/goals as well as actually spending some of it. If your low months don't cover your regular expenses, then you need to budget on a longer scale and make sure that on high months you are setting aside sufficient money to cover the lean times. So you work out, say, what three or six months of an expense would be, and 'fund' that buffer with any high earnings before you start putting money toward other spending.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
Yes, low months I can still cover anything. I'm going to work with the rest of your advice while formatting this thing. Thank you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 18:07
|
|
|
Two part question: I'm curious how other people with a budget spreadsheet handle this type of transaction. If you owe money after you file your taxes, do you put that payment under an expense category (Misc expense?) like any other charge, or do you make a negative entry under income? I've been doing the former the past 2 years, but I am starting to think the latter is more accurate to what it actually is. I didn't really incur an expense, my paychecks were just a little too high. That also throws a wrench in it: my paychecks last year were too high, but the $ adjustment is happening this year. My spreadsheet has a tab for each year. Would you put today's charged transaction in 2017 so that your income is reflected correctly last year? I guess the same question goes for if you got a refund: Do you add that to 2017's income because that's part of your true earnings, or 2018 because you are getting the money right now? Damn Bananas fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Feb 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
Annual taxes are specifically levied based on a past circumstance, but those transactions take place now. If you incur an expense it may reflect a past failure, but the transactions occur today, and account reconciliation demands that you enter it accordingly. Likewise, a refund is income today. A mortgage payment is officially guaranteed to appear, but surely it's not a representation of money paid out (or negative income) on the date the mortgage was signed. On the other hand it is a creditor/debitor transaction, so it would appear in proper double entry. Officially, yes, you should stuff the amount (positive or negative) through your monthly percentage budget and update all accounts directly. Later you should review available funds for toys, capital expenses, and the like. It's safer than just "tally ho free money woo!!". (For certain short term situations, I actually track debits; that is, from my point of view I have loaned them the money. Later they pay me back with interest. (These are not people and I am not a bank)).
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 20:55
|
|
|
Don't know if this is the right thread for this, but I've recently been laid off, and am looking for areas of expenditure in which to make relatively painless cuts and methods of doing so. Using Magnetic North's budget for an example, $245/month for gas seems crazily expensive to me (I generally spend about $80), but $35/month for a phone plan seems crazily cheap (again, I spend about $80), especially if one's pulling in $65k/year and probably isn't using an old flip phone. I don't know if the differences are regional, or based on need (perhaps Magnetic North is the world's highest-paid-yet-completely-unreachable Uber driver?), but if region plays a significant factor, I'm in Los Angeles. And if I really oughta be posting this in another thread, could someone give me a heads-up?
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 14:49
|
|
|
This is the right place to get started. In fact, the thread has been so quiet I was just thinking of posting something myself. Responses might be a bit slow to get started since people aren't here daily, but there should be some good ideas. So then, first step is to file for unemployment as soon as possible. For your budget, start with your needs (food, shelter) and figure out how long you have with current emergency savings before you're in big(ger) trouble. Next start in on the resume; I'm guessing you have nothing lined up nor any job conversations from the last three months since you didn't mention them. Also start using coupons again. Depending on your expected length of unemployment, some here will suggest you start your own thread. This may be necessary if there are particularly extenuating circumstances or you otherwise intend to be unemployed forever.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 15:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 15:26 |
|
|
PhantomOfTheCopier posted:So then, first step is to file for unemployment as soon as possible. Done. $450/week will ostensibly be coming in for the next 6 months. quote:figure out how long you have with current emergency savings before you're in big(ger) trouble. That's where I'm lucky: I could coast for several years without changing my lifestyle at all. But if making a few changes now means that I could do whatever coasting is necessary without having to live off cat food when I'm in my dotage, I'm willing to do Old Man Budgie that favor. quote:Next start in on the resume; I'm guessing you have nothing lined up nor any job conversations from the last three months since you didn't mention them. True. I've been at the same place for the last 16 years, and I haven't been looking. But here's a little wrinkle: I've been going to college part time for the last couple of years in order to finish my bachelor's degree. Up until now, the main purpose of my return to school was to keep my brain from atrophying. I'm majoring in screenwriting, so it's not an especially marketable degree (even in the industry, where scholastic achievement matters much less than connections, dependability, and -- a distant third -- talent). But most places demand that applicants at least have a BA, so... I'm thinking about going back to school full time. The way I see it: PROS: * Will allow me to shave a year off my estimated graduation date. * Will have time to attend seminars, workshops, film/screenwriting festivals, and other network-y gatherings. * Will have time to build a body of work to shop around town. * Enables me to take for-credit internships at production companies and/or studios. (Again, networking.) * Enables me to participate in other students' film projects. (Yet again, networking. The industry is notoriously about who you know, and helping Johnny Auteur make the short film that got his foot in the door could result in his willingness to pass along one of my scripts once he gets inside.) * Most scholarships are only available to full-time students, and my grades are well over the 3.0 minimum most of them require. CONS: * Money goes out, money does not come in -- at least not until tax time. * Not sure how taking a two-year break to get my degree will look to prospective employers, should my preferred career not pan out. Someone in another thread remarked that it's easier to get a job when you still have a job... but I was ousted within an hour of being informed that my services would no longer be required. quote:Also start using coupons again. Good point. Is there anywhere online I should look, or is coupon-clipping still mostly in the hard copy realm? quote:Depending on your expected length of unemployment, some here will suggest you start your own thread. This may be necessary if there are particularly extenuating circumstances or you otherwise intend to be unemployed forever. Not forever, but the prospect of focusing on school definitely has its appeal.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 19:09
|
|