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Do you have a dog or a cat? Do you feed it dog or cat food? Then this is the thread for you! If you don't know much about pet food, these first posts are a good place to start. Like with most subjects involving health or nutrition, the internet is full of insane quackery/bullshit and really strong opinions regarding pet food. The fact of the matter is this: the best diet is the one your pet does well on. That means it's not going to be the same food for every pet or every pet owner. Here are the most important qualifications for a good pet food:
*“Healthy” means your pet isn't too fat***** or too skinny, isn't greasy or itchy or covered in dandruff, and isn't farting or barfing all the time, etc. *****If you aren't sure but think maybe your pet might be a little chubby, then your pet is probably an enormous fatass because most pets are. Most people are so accustomed to ottoman-shaped pets that they think healthy pets look super skinny. If your pet is fat, it doesn't make you a terrible person, but you should try to fix it. NOW READ THIS DISCLAIMER OR YOUR PET MIGHT DIE: If your veterinarian has recommended a prescription diet in order to manage a medical condition, do what your vet says! This means foods with names like Hill's C/D, K/D, S/D; Royal Canin SO, LP, MP, HF; Purina NF, UR, DM, or any other diet prescribed to manage or treat disease (bladder stones, kidney disease, diabetes, etc). These diets are scientifically proven to help manage the condition your pet is suffering from, and switching to the foods recommended in these posts will almost certainly do harm to your pet. The Basics Diet has a huge effect on your pet's health. You can't do much about genetics or bad luck, but you have total control over what your pet eats every day. If your pet scratches a lot, has dandruff and a dull coat, farts constantly, smells awful, or takes enormous paint-peeling dumps, better food is likely the solution. If your pet seems totally normal and fine, better food will probably contribute to a longer, healthier life. Why should I spend more money on pet food?
Ingredients Every ingredient in commercial pet food is there for a reason, but sometimes the reason isn't a very good one. The process of turning meat into shelf-stable kibble isn't easy, so sometimes "filler" ingredients are added just for the purpose of food consistency. A lot of these fillers have little to no nutritional value, and your pet basically just poops them out. Ingredient quality also affects absorption. Shoe leather and chicken meat are both mostly protein, but your pet is going to digest and absorb a lot more protein from one than the other. Ingredients on a label are listed by weight. So when "corn" is the first ingredient on the label, there is a lot more corn present than when it's the 10th ingredient listed. (Pet food companies can and will try to trick you with this tactic, called "ingredient splitting". If you see 6 different ingredients involving the word "rice", there is probably a whole lot of rice in the food, even if the first two ingredients are meat.) In feeding dry foods with more corn (or wheat, soy, etc.) than actual meat, we're basically feeding our carnivores cornflakes and a multivitamin to balance out the deficiencies. They'll survive on it, but it's far from an ideal diet. Here are some good ingredients to look for... Meats (chicken, turkey, beef, etc.) - This is muscle meat and doesn't include organs or anything weird. Lots of protein and good stuff in here. If you don't see a meat or meat meal in the first 2-3 ingredients on the label, you should probably run away. Meat Meals (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) - Meals are basically rendered meat bits. While this may include some animal parts that most people don't want to eat, it's still really nutritious and good in pet food. Because it's rendered, it doesn't contain a lot of water-weight like whole meats do. This means that pound-for-pound, "chicken meal" typically contains even more protein and good stuff than "chicken". Good foods will usually contain both whole meats and meat meals. Veggies & Fruits - In lower-quality foods, you'll see lots of corn, rice, and grains being used as binding agents or carbohydrate sources. In higher-quality foods, you may see more nutritious sources of starch and fiber like sweet potatoes, apples, peas, and carrots. These ingredients also contain more vitamins, minerals, and other good stuff. Next, ingredients to avoid... Most of these are cheap alternatives to healthier ingredients, and therefore indicate lower-quality diets. However, they're not all inherently bad for your pet, especially if they're only present in small amounts (so try to keep in mind the order in which the ingredients are listed). If you see all this stuff listed at the beginning of an ingredient list, it's probably not the highest quality food. Corn / Maize (whole grain corn, ground corn, corn gluten meal, etc.) - Corn is typically used as a carbohydrate source or binding agent. Of carb sources, corn is arguably the worst in terms of its effect on the animal's blood glucose (hint: having a diabetic pet sucks). Corn is also the cheapest carb source, which means its presence usually indicates a lower-quality food. Corn gluten is a protein source, but animal based-protein is better for feeding carnivores. Corn is a common allergen among carbohydrates (but allergies to protein sources are much more common). Soy - Avoid soy-based protein in pet foods, especially for cats. The reasons are basically the same as for corn gluten -- it's cheap, it's a common allergen, and it's not part of a species-appropriate diet for dogs or cats. Wheat / Wheat Gluten - Avoid for the same reasons as corn or corn gluten. Wheat is a common allergen among carbohydrates (but allergies to protein are much more common). By-Products - This includes anything with the word "by-product", including "by-product meal". By-products are basically the garbage of the meat industry. While they often contain ingredients with good nutritional value (i.e. organs), by-products also contain a lot of stuff that's not as digestible or nutritionally valuable (i.e. chicken feet, heads). The real problem here is that "by-products" is intentionally ambiguous, and therefore its quality and makeup are going to be inconsistent. Ingredients containing vague words like "Animal" or "Poultry" (meat and bone meal, animal fat, etc.) - Again, this is about lack of specificity. If the pet food manufacturer can't tell you what species the ingredient comes from, it's a safe bet that quality and consistency are lacking. Of these, "animal" is definitely the worst. Questionable ingredients???? The next two are up for debate. I'm not going to argue about whether or not these chemicals are safe, but I will say that the companies making really high-quality foods aren't using them. They're mainly included here because there's a lot of nonsense about them on pet food websites, so to set the record straight... Menadione (typically "Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex" or "Vitamin K3") - This will be really far down on ingredient lists if present. It's a precursor to Vitamin K, and not an actual vitamin. While legal to use in animal food, the FDA has banned its use in humans due to the potentially fatal effects of large doses. There is no conclusive evidence that small amounts of menadione are dangerous in pet food, but who knows. Menadione is cheap, and natural sources of vitamin K (alfalfa, kelp, green leafy veggies) are expensive. You won't see this ingredient in high-quality foods. Artificial Preservatives (BHA, BHT, Ethoxyquin) - These are added to cheap foods to increase shelf-life. In high-quality foods, you'll see natural preservatives like Vitamin E, Vitamin C, tocopherols, rosemary, etc. Like with menadione, there is no conclusive evidence that these things will hurt your pet, but there are enough people arguing about the safety of these chemicals that it may be better to just avoid them. Food brands are up next! But first, here are two things you should know before you change your pet's diet:
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May 16, 2013 03:00
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Do you just want to read a list of good foods so you can find one your pet store carries? You're in the right place. But only if you have a dog. Dogs can do great on all kinds of diets. If your dog does sports/performance/work or you just want your dog to get really ripped, you might want to pick a higher protein diet (such as a grain-free food). If your dog basically lives on your couch, just pick something with good ingredients and your dog will probably do great. Dog Food Brands Premium*- brands that have no corn, by-products, or other “fillers”. These brands generally have a reputation for good quality. Acana Addiction Applaws Artemis Avoderm Blue Buffalo By Nature California Naturals Canidae Castor and Pollux Chicken Soup Earthborn Fromm Go! Halo Hill's Ideal Balance Holistque Selects Honest Kitchen Innova Instinct Natural Balance Nature’s Variety Now! Organix Orijen Merrick/Whole Earth Farms/ BG Pepperdogz Pinnacle Primal Solid Gold Stella and Chewy's Taste of the Wild Timberwolf Wellness Ziwi Peak Acceptable* - These foods contain corn, by-products, or other lower quality ingredients in small to moderate amounts. Authority Eagle Pack Bil Jac Eukanuba Iams Nature’s Recipe Nutro Royal Canin Science Diet - Nature’s Best Purina Pro Plan & ONE beyOnd Wysong Poor*- These foods contain mostly corn, wheat, and by products. These brands also contain artificial colors and preservatives. These foods contain more bad stuff than good. Alpo Beneful Beef N More Ceasar Chef Michaels Evangers Gravy Train Kibbles and Bits Nutrish Mighty Dog Pedigree Purina Dog Chow Purina ONE Science Diet *Keep in mind that foods with formulas like Senior, Light, Weight Control, Grain-Free, etc. may be better or worse than how they're listed here. These are just guidelines to help you narrow things down. Thanks are due to Denial Twist and PI's top dog expert El Gar for working on this list.
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May 16, 2013 03:01
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Do you just want to read a list of good foods so you can find one your pet store carries? You're in the right place. But only if you have a cat. First, a really important point: canned food is better than dry food. Cats are a pain in the rear end even in the realm of nutrition, so it's not a simple as finding a food with a nice ingredient list. Cats need more protein, less carbohydrate, and more water than what most dry foods contain. Ingredient quality is important too, of course, but the science that's available right now suggests that macronutrient ratios matter a whole lot more. That means that even the cheapest grocery store generic canned food is better than 99% of dry foods in terms of carbs, protein, and water. If you want more info, skip to the end of this post. While canned food is better, it's also more expensive and less convenient. So to keep things simple, there are separate lists for canned foods and dry foods. CAT FOOD BRANDS Premium Canned Foods -- These foods are very low in carbohydrates and very high in protein. They also use excellent ingredients (no corn, soy, byproducts, or anything like that). Generally <15% of the calories in these foods come from carbohydrates, which is what your cat is designed to eat. Blue Buffalo By Nature (95% Meat formulas) California Naturals Chicken Soup Innova Innova EVO Merrick Nature's Variety Instinct Solid Gold Tiki Cat Wellness (While technically not “canned”, most of those fancy dehydrated/freeze-dried cat foods that you add water to probably belong here.) Good Canned Foods -- These foods are mostly a little higher in carbs and a little lower in protein, or they use some lower-quality ingredients in relatively small amounts. But they're still really good foods. Authority Avoderm By Nature Organics Fresh Pet Natural Balance Nature's Variety Prairie Nutro Organix Pinnacle Purina Pro Plan Royal Canin Taste of the Wild Acceptable Canned Foods -- These foods are mostly still better than dry foods in terms of nutrients, but many of them use byproducts, corn, and soy as protein sources (less digestible). They may also contain other low-quality ingredients. How good these foods are varies A LOT from flavor to flavor. If you want to know which flavors are best, 1) look at the charts (here and here) and choose flavors with the biggest numbers in the protein column and the smallest numbers in the carb column, and 2) read the ingredient labels and pick the flavors with the least gross ingredients. You should also know that most of these "cheaper" canned foods contain significantly more water than the premium foods, which means you may not be saving as much money as you think. For example, if you compare the cost based on calories (instead of ounces), many Fancy Feast flavors are more expensive than Wellness. By Nature Goldleaf Selects Fancy Feast Friskies 9-Lives Science Diet Sophisticat Special Kitty Whiskas Next: Dry Foods. (In case you missed this before, CANNED FOOD IS BETTER THAN DRY FOOD FOR CATS.) Good Dry Foods -- These are the few dry foods that are almost as good as canned food (in terms of being low in carbs and high in protein). If it weren't for the fact that they lack moisture, these would be equivalent to Premium or Good canned foods. These foods are also extremely dense in terms of calories per cup of food, so many cats will eat 1/3-1/2 cups a day or less. In short, you're getting more bang for your buck. (For example, if you compare the costs based on calories (instead of lbs or kgs), Solid Gold Indigo Moon is cheaper than A LOT of dry foods, including Purina, lots of grocery store crap, and almost every food on the Acceptable list. These foods are expensive by the pound, but they really only cost $6-12 per month to feed an average sized cat.) Innova EVO Nature's Variety Instinct Orijen Solid Gold Indigo Moon Wellness Core Acceptable Dry Foods-- These foods use good ingredients, but they're too high in carbohydrates and/or too low in protein. Nutritionally, they're not as good as almost any canned food, but you could do a LOT worse. (These are mostly in the range of 25-30% carbohydrates; there are almost no canned foods this high in carbohydrates.) Acana Before Grain (Merrick) Blue Buffalo California Naturals Chicken Soup Halo/Spot's Stew Felidae Healthwise Innova Nature's Variety Prarie Pinnacle Solid Gold Katz-N-Flocken Taste of the Wild (Rocky Mountain Formula) Wellness (formulas other than "Core") Poor Dry Foods -- These aren't quite as bad as the Awful Dry Foods, but they're close. These foods either have decent ingredients but huge amounts of carbohydrates, OR they have awful ingredients and moderate amounts of carbohydrates . Most of these are also really overpriced for what you're getting. Authority By Nature Drs Foster & Smith Eagle Pack Eukanuba Flint River Ranch Natural Balance Natural Ultramix Nutro Organix Purina Pro Plan (regular & Selects) Royal Canin Taste of the Wild (Canyon River Formula) Wysong Awful Dry Foods -- These foods are the Worst Foods for Cats. Awful ingredients, tons of carbs. Many of these contain the minimum amount of protein required to be legally labeled "cat food". Fancy Feast Friskies Iams Meow Mix 9-Lives Purina Cat Chow Purina ONE Science Diet Sophisticat Special Kitty Tender Vittles Whiskas More info on the canned vs. dry thing: Dry cat foods historically have been very similar to dry dog foods, which means they're loaded with carbs because 1) carbs are a cheap source of calories, and 2) carbs help the kibble stick together in the manufacturing process. Most dogs do just fine on high-carb diets, so ingredient quality is more important in separating good dog food from bad. Unlike dogs, cats are obligate carnivores, which means they require nutrients that are found ONLY in animal tissue. Cats need tons of protein and have no need for carbohydrates in their diets. There has been a major shift in thinking about this stuff recently. Twenty years ago, vets were taught that dry food was better. Now there's a lot of research to suggest that cats do best on high protein, low carbohydrate foods. This means canned foods. (By the way, dry food does not help clean teeth. That's a myth. The only exception is prescription dental diets (((which happen to be gross and really high in carbs))).) Canned foods are all very low in carbohydrates and very high in protein. Canned foods also have the added benefit of forcing your cat to consume more water, which is a great bonus because many of the most common cat diseases are improved by increasing water intake (kidney disease, urinary obstruction, urinary crystals, etc.). So here are the criteria for a great cat food:
For brands in this list, if one company makes grain-free and non-grain-free foods, you can usually assume that their grain-free food is at least marginally better (lower carbs, higher protein). You can also assume that any formula labeled "light, diet, weight control, or indoor" is at marginally worse (higher carbs, lower protein) than the regular stuff from the same brand. Some flavors of food are significantly better than other flavors of the same brand, etc etc. 
Crooked Booty fucked around with this message at 03:05 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 03:01
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Links Pet Food Recalls BalanceIt: A reputable source for balanced supplements so you can feed a raw or cooked homemade diet. Binky's Cat Food Tables here and here Body Condition Scoring for Dogs or Cats Previous Pet Nutrition Thread FAQ: Weight Loss, Prescription Diets, & Raw Diets Am I feeding too much? Too little? The feeding instructions on your food bag/cans will tell you to overfeed 9 times out of 10. These guidelines are for intact (not spayed/neutered), active animals. Intact animals have higher energy requirements than spayed/neutered animals. The food companies would also much rather tell you to overfeed than to underfeed because 1) they don't want to accidentally tell someone to starve their pet, and 2) they sell more food if you overfeed. If your dog is a couch potato or your cat is indoor-only, you will almost certainly need to feed less than the bag recommends. If you're not sure if your pet is at its ideal weight, try comparing to the body condition score links above. If you're still not sure, talk to your vet. They should also be able to give you an estimate of what your pet's ideal body weight is. We can also help if you post pictures, but not as much as your vet can help by actually groping your fat pet in person. If you're switching from a low-quality food to a high-quality food, you will almost certainly need to feed a smaller amount. High quality foods may contain over twice as many calories per cup of food as low-quality foods. Help my pet is fat??? If your pet is overweight, your pet needs more exercise, less food, or both. We can help you formulate a weight loss plan if you post how much you're currently feeding and what food. If you have no idea how much you're currently feeding because you just fill up the food bowl when it's empty, then that's your first task: measure the food. You should also know that cats (especially obese cats) can become seriously ill or die by losing weight too rapidly or having their food reduced too drastically, so please post for guidance or talk to your vet before you cut calories. Is there a better alternative to the prescription diet my vet recommended? The ingredients are bad. No. Prescription diets are formulated and tested to have very specific effects on your pet to manage a disease. The ingredients may suck, but the diets work. There are no companies that use great ingredients and make prescription diets that work. It's a bummer. But poor-quality ingredients will not kill your pet; the disease you're trying to manage definitely can. My acupuncturist told me about raw feeding. What's up with that? People have really strong opinions about raw feeding. It's either the best thing ever or basically poison. In reality, it's probably somewhere in between. It's new enough that it hasn't been studied a whole lot, but here's what we know for sure: it's not a trivial undertaking, and it's really easy to gently caress it up and hurt your pet. If you only have a passing interest in it, chances are you do not have the time or ability to do a homemade raw (or cooked) diet correctly. There have not yet been any scientific studies to suggest that there is any health benefit to feeding raw diets. There have been scientific studies to show that your pet might randomly die if you don't balance their diet properly, and also your house will probably be covered in Salmonella forever if you're not careful. “Dehydrated raw” or freeze-dried diets are probably safer than frozen raw diets when it comes to contamination with pathogens. There's an increasing number of pre-made raw options available in pet stores, and quality varies wildly. Some pet stores sell their own locally-made raw diets, and most I've seen are sketchy as hell with no testing or regulation beyond “I made this in my garage and fed it to my dog and he hasn't died yet.” There are also some very reputable companies selling pre-made raw diets, and you'll find some included in the pet food lists above. Pre-made diets are a good place to start if you really want to give raw a whirl. If you go this route, make sure to look for an AAFCO statement on the packaging that says the diet is complete and balanced. Nature's Variety puts their food through more rigorous testing and feeding trials than even most non-raw pet foods, so that's where I would start personally. Feel free to post raw/homemade questions and stuff in this thread. There are a lot of really knowledgeable people who feed all sorts of stuff. Also check out the links section for some good resources. P.S. Please don't freak out or lose sleep over the food rankings. I've tried to base it on NUMBERS and SCIENCE wherever possible, but it's really subjective and there's no way around that. It's only meant to be a quick reference for normal goons who care a normal amount about pet food. A lot of folks have contributed to these posts as well as the previous versions that I ripped off, but say thanks especially to Denial Twist and gar. Crooked Booty fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 03:01
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WolfensteinBag posted:Thanks for the update! Tempting Fate posted:Think there's an error in the poor dry dog foods list, Evangers does not contain any of the bad ingredients you have listed. Just an FYI.
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May 16, 2013 05:18
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Kiri koli posted:Is anyone familiar with the different protein contents of dog foods? 17% protein is very, very low. It's in fact lower than what AAFCO requires of dog food, so you're not going to find an over-the-counter diet with protein that low. The only way to get protein that low is to dilute it with fat or carbohydrates, and high-fat diets give dogs horrible diarrhea at best, so that only leaves carbs. If you go looking for dog foods with more like 18-20% protein, you're unfortunately going to find that there aren't many options other than a few pretty yucky, grocery store-quality foods that are 90% corn or whatever. The lowest protein OTC diets with good ingredients will probably be those labeled for "seniors" but they'll still probably be around 25% protein. The protein "minimum" listed on Blue Buffalo is probably pretty accurate. Protein is the most expensive part of the diet, so it would be very unusual for a pet food to have significantly more protein than what's listed on the bag. Royal Canin has a prescription diet called Calm which I believe came out in the US about a year ago. I don't know much about it other than that it's relatively low in protein, has lots of added tryptophan, and has some other added peptides and amino acids that are thought to be calming (alpha cazosepine and something else too IIRC). I think it's a lot of the stuff found in various "calming" chews and treats. The ingredient list probably isn't pretty, but it might be worth a try. I haven't heard much in the way of anecdotes, but it seems like worst case scenario is the dog doesn't like it (in which case RC would probably give you a refund) or it does nothing. If your vet doesn't carry it, they should be able to write you a script to get it online or elsewhere. Edit: Oh hey, when you google Royal Canin Calm a $15 rebate comes up, good through the end of this month. Crooked Booty fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 16:07
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NinjaPete posted:I need some advice. Our kitty is over weight and we have been struggling with it for a year now. She gets exercise and we measure her portions but she is staying steady at 11.5 pounds. Her vet recommended looking for food with fewer calories right now she is on Blue Buffalo Indoor Health dry food. We have done the BB weight control but the effects were minimal. She has been on BB since she was a kitten and I don't know what other brands to try.
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Aug 16, 2013 16:44
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NinjaPete posted:She gets around 1/2 or 1/3 a cup a day. I asked the vet if we should be doing that and he suggested trying a different brand instead of cutting down on the amount. Of course he then suggested science diet... 1/4 cup per day is plenty for a lot of cats, but it depends on the food and the cat. The problem with reducing the amount too much is that most foods aren't designed to be fed in tiny amounts, so you run the risk of causing a nutrient deficiency just because you aren't feeding enough. One of the first problems you'll encounter with a food like Blue Buffalo Indoor is that she won't be getting enough protein. She'll lose weight, but she'll be losing both muscle mass and fat, and ideally you want her to maintain her muscle and just ditch the fat. For this reason, there are some prescription weight-loss diets you can get from the vet that are super nutritionally dense, so even if you reduce the amount/calories really low, they'll still be getting enough protein and other nutrients. The best one of these is probably Purina OM, but you may not be happy with the ingredient list. If your cat is super obese at 11.5 lbs and should weigh more like 7 lbs, you may have to go this route to get results safely. If your cat is just chubby and should weigh more like 10 lbs, you can probably do fine with a non-prescription diet. I'd start by doing the strict 1/3 cup a day of Blue Buffalo Indoor, but if you need to go lower than that, I'd switch to a higher protein food. There are a bunch of options in the OP, but if she likes Blue Buffalo, you could try Wilderness (the non-indoor one). Wilderness is a lot higher in protein, which will help maintain her muscle mass and keep her metabolism up, but it's actually lower in calories than regular Blue Indoor. So you could switch from 1/3 cup indoor to 1/3 cup Wilderness and see how that goes (and transition gradually, of course).
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Aug 16, 2013 17:08
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NinjaPete posted:You think I should be getting just the plain wilderness and not even weight control? Cats can lose weight just fine on either type of diet as long as the calories are restricted enough, but studies have shown that cats dieting on high-fiber/carb food lose muscle mass too, which makes them skinnyfat with the couch-potato metabolism that goes along with that. High protein is the way to go in almost all cases. As an added bonus, most cats get feelings of satiety based on protein, so your cat is less likely to scream at you because it's starving with the regular Wildnerness. It's sort of like the difference between a person losing weight by eating 1300 calories worth of chicken and veggies versus a person eating 1300 calories worth of pizza. Both ways can result in weight loss, but one person will come out a lot healthier at the other end.
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Aug 16, 2013 18:37
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What book are these recipes from? Or more importantly, what are the credentials of the person who wrote the recipes? No one here is really qualified to say whether these recipes are complete and balanced, but considering that sardines have something like three times as much phosphorus per gram as chicken meat, I strongly doubt they are. Is there a reason you don't want to consult a veterinary nutritionist, or just use a vitamin premix like from BalanceIt?
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Aug 25, 2013 15:53
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I'd try contacting these folks: https://www.petnutritionservice.co.uk I don't know anything about veterinary specialties in the UK other than what I've learned in the last 10 minutes. It looks like the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons doesn't have a nutrition specialty, but the European Board of Veterinary Specialists does, so you could also search for a nutritionist through their website -- the specialty is ECVCN and I get two results in the UK. But I'd probably just start with that Edinburgh site because they definitely offer the service of formulating home cooked diets. ETA: There's this guy, too, but the link to RVC's nutrition service doesn't work so who knows if it still exists or what. Crooked Booty fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Aug 25, 2013 |
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Aug 25, 2013 17:46
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Why are you spending $50 a month on a treat that is "a lot of work to prepare"? Beef and greens are not nutritionally complete and should not make up more than 10% of a dog's diet. The pet store lady is right that allergies are not typically targeted at fats, but your average chicken fat is not 100% fat. If there's a little bit of chicken protein in that fat (which there almost certainly is), or chicken dog food was made on the same machinery recently, that can be enough to set off a chicken-allergic dog. Whether or not it will a problem for your dog is anyone's guess.
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Sep 15, 2013 18:08
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Organza Quiz posted:Thanks for the info on grain-free. I wasn't very clear about what I meant about the breakdowns so I'll rephrase: I'm in Australia and spend a lot of time looking at the percentage breakdowns when I'm trying to work out what food to buy because that seems like the best way to work it out since I've never seen specific recommendations for food that's available in Australia as opposed to the USA. I'd never seen people in the USA refer to the percentages, so I'd assumed that they weren't available on cat food in the USA. Since it seems like they are, I'd be grateful if someone would let me know what they look like on the "better" food brands, so I can compare it to what's available here and have a better idea of how well I'm doing at finding decent food for my cats to eat. It would just give some context to all the discussions about Blue Buffalo and Wellness or whatever. I personally wouldn't feed a cat anything less than 40% protein (on a dry matter basis), and protein is definitely the most important number to look at. You shouldn't compare label percentages if they have different amounts of moisture without converting them to dry matter. Protein% listed on the label divided by (100 - %moisture) = dry matter protein%.
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Sep 29, 2013 15:12
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Mr. Belding posted:The egg is infinitely better for her than the science diet. You know what's worse than feeding crappy puppy food? Diluting that already low nutrient content with random unbalanced food. An egg is better than doritos obviously, but you're missing the point. P.S. have you heard of a calcium phosphorus ratio? It's this thing that you really should not gently caress with in a growing puppy.
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Oct 3, 2013 17:55
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I guess it's possible your cat is just dumb, but I tend to associate what you're describing with cats who have pain in their mouths. Has she had her mouth examined by a vet lately? I've also seen a few cats who are missing most/all of their teeth do that with mushy pâté-style foods. If you're feeding a pâté-style food and her teeth are healthy, you might want to try something chunkier.
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Nov 21, 2013 15:12
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Rah posted:Hi everyone. I have 2 kittens, one is around 12 weeks old and not sure about the other, but judging that she's a little bigger than my 12 week old, I guess 13 - 14 weeks (But I'll have a better idea once she has her vet appointment next week).  Just based on the pictures of the box, it appears to be full of artificial colors and it's made in weird shapes, so it's probably similar to our Meow Mix or something. If you can afford it, Applaws and Nature's Menu are probably the best UK cat foods I'm aware of. Applaws makes a dry kitten food; not sure about Nature's Menu. A step down from those would be something like Arden Grange or James Wellbeloved. Maybe someone who lives in the UK will have other suggestions. As for the passing gas, I generally take that as a sign that the food isn't agreeing with the animal. With the exception of flat-faced dogs who swallow a lot of air when they eat, animals generally shouldn't fart a lot. It may resolve as the cat adjusts to that food over the next week or two, but I'd probably shop around for a better quality kibble, transition them slowly, and see if that helps. I'd definitely mention the gas to the vet, particularly since they're kittens, because something like intestinal parasites could be contributing as well.
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Dec 6, 2013 18:37
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C-Euro posted:Why is my dog so thirsty all the time? He's a Pembroke Welsh Corgi somewhere between 25-30 lbs and right now, with the weather as cold as it is, he's not doing a whole lot of running around. I give him a little over 2 cups of water when I get up in the morning and by the time I leave for work he's drank nearly the entire bowl. He'll even lick the snow off the ground or off my boots when I walk him. I try to give him only a little water when I get home from work so that he doesn't have to piss at night, but should I be giving him more water than that? Is dog food just really dehydrating?
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Jan 4, 2014 19:50
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Spermy Smurf posted:Every single one of our dealers gets paid to sell our products. Sell 100 ton and get 10 cents per ton sold. Sell 200, get 20 cents per. None of these "benefits" have anything to do with the quantity of food sold, and the same things happen with a lot of drug companies, distributors, etc. -- it's not unique to food. No one is getting cash kickbacks for pushing specific products.
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Jan 11, 2014 20:21
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The difference is that feed store owners aren't overseen by a state licensing board that investigates complaints about the ethics of their recommendations. Kickbacks to veterinarians are explicitly illegal in a number of states. I'm not sure what better evidence you want other than a bunch of veterinarians and vet students telling you it doesn't work that way.
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Jan 11, 2014 23:01
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No sane dog is going to eat kibble when steak and poo poo are the other options. It doesn't matter what brand you pick. Stop giving her "yummies" if you want her to eat kibble (and god I hope you don't use that word in public).
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Jan 20, 2014 18:07
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NewcastleBrown posted:When moving my cat from free-feed dry (that has gotten him a bit pudgy) to a rationed wet diet, how do I know how much to feed him? drat Bananas posted:Innova Senior dry has 40.59% protein and 29.3% carbs So the dry food, the protein is actually (40.6/95 =) 42.7% on a dry matter basis. The carbs are around 30%. The canned food, protein is (12.2/27.5 =) 44.4% a dry matter basis. The carbs are around 18%. Senior foods are generally lower in protein because older cats get kidney disease, and high protein is not great for that. But there was also a recent study showing that cats digest and absorb a progressively smaller amount of the protein they eat as they age, and this probably contributes to the muscle wasting that just about every senior cat develops. So I'm a big fan of high protein for old cats as long as their renal values, both on blood and urine, look good. 
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Jan 22, 2014 20:55
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Politicalrancor posted:I'm about six months out of practice as a dog owner, so please bear with me. 2. Dogs really don't scratch to the point of scabs just from stress. Something else is likely going on. A little fish oil may improve his skin overall if it's dry, but it's not going to fix whatever is making his face itchy. Also a little is good, but a lot is not better when it comes to fish oil. Look up a dose online for his weight and stick to that. 3. It's possible that his face is itchy due to a food allergy, but there are a lot of other possible causes that would need to be excluded by your vet first. 4. Some large cities have low-cost veterinary clinics, but it's rare for them to do things other than spays/neuters/vaccines. I would not recommend going that route, even for vaccines, if you can afford it (because ultimately you'll get what you pay for). He needs to see a veterinarian for his skin. If he is around a year old, he's probably due for vaccines really soon, too. He should also be on monthly heartworm prevention, depending on where you live. You'll need to start budgetting for his medical care, but in the meantime, maybe you could borrow some money from someone? You may want to call the vet you plan on using and try to get an estimate for having his skin evaluated.
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Jan 28, 2014 15:57
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When did you nearly double his food intake? If that was a while ago and he's not gaining, this isn't a problem a little peanut butter is going to fix. I would try a completely different food (different protein source and different brand) because sometimes foods don't agree with certain animals for no obvious reason, and also talk to your vet again. My own dog was underweight for a while (eating about 1600 calories per day according to the bag), and when I switched to a totally different food, he gained 10 lbs in about 2 weeks (eating about 900 calories per day according to the bag). 
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Feb 15, 2014 03:31
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Lethanialist posted:We have 2 cats, one is a bit over a year and one about 8 months. A while ago, my wife and I decided to go healthy/grain-free and tried feeding the older one Blue Buffalo Wilderness and he started having violent diarrhea attacks every week or two--he couldn't make it to the litter box and was defecating all over the place, getting disoriented (had to walk around the edges of the apartment to find his way to the litter box), and very scared. Needless to say, not a good experience.. For food, I would stick with the Purina because your cats are doing well on it. Normally if a cat does not tolerate high protein food (or an ingredient in the food), they'll consistently have diarrhea when they eat it - not just once every week or two - so that's weird. Being disoriented is much more concerning. Animals who are blind will often walk around the edges of rooms - do you think it's possible he was temporarily blind? There is a liver condition that can cause dogs and cats to have neurological abnormalities (like blindness, being disoriented, or seizures) after eating a high protein meal, but it's very rare in cats, and your story doesn't totally fit. Other than that, all I can figure is that the episodes of disorientation were unrelated to the food. In any case, you should talk to a veterinarian and not a Blue Buffalo rep about this, and if your cat ever exhibits signs of being disoriented again, proceed directly to the vet. That is extremely abnormal. Culex posted:Quick question. I'm getting a Cardigan Corgi pup, 15 weeks old, Thursday. I'd also encourage you to discuss when to spay her with your veterinarian because most dog breeders are loving insane and most crap on the internet is wrong. ETA: *Okay, there are lots of bad ratios, but you should be fine as long as the food has an AAFCO statement saying it's formulated for growth or for all life stages (which will be true of any BB food labeled for puppies). Crooked Booty fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 21:37
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Your cat should be able to lose weight on either food. If he's not, he's eating too much. (Was your cat weighed on the same scale both times? I have a hard time imagining a cat gaining over 2kg in 2 weeks eating the amount you're talking about, so maybe there was an error somewhere?) If he gained eating 1.25c of the Royal Canin, that's like 275 kcals, so he needs way less than that. I'd probably try feeding around 200-225 kcal/day to start and see what happens. Orijen is in the ballpark of 500kcal/cup, so you're going to have a hard time getting to 200 with standard measuring cups. What I'd do is measure like 2/5 cup (or 6.5 tablespoons) of Orijen into a disposable cup and trim the cup down to only hold that amount. Then you can keep trimming the cup as needed if you need to reduce further. You may want to seriously consider buying a baby scale online so you can weigh him weekly. If you go that route let us know and we can help you figure out how much weight loss to shoot for each week.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:22
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obnoxious posted:My cats are currently eating Solid Gold Indigo Moon grain-free, and we're introducing a new kitten in May or June. Is this food okay for kittens? Everything I see online points to yes, but I want to be certain.
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Apr 20, 2014 05:41
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go_banana posted:I bought a pork shoulder to smoke on my UDS - can my dog have the raw bone? The internet seems to offer differing opinions... Of course with any raw bones, you should supervise him to make sure he doesn't try to swallow it whole like a dumbass, and dogs can totally get Salmonella and other nasty bugs from raw meat just like people, and a dog can easily break a tooth chewing things much softer than bones, etc., etc. There are definitely safer treats out there, but a lot of dogs have eaten a lot of bones and survived.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:46
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The safe rate for weight loss in dogs is generally 1-2% of body weight per week. Since 2% of 50 lbs is a lot more than 2% of 25 lbs, progress is a lot faster early on. So it could take the better part of a year for a dog to go from double its healthy weight to healthy, but its going to be looking a whole lot better in just a few months.
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May 30, 2014 12:48
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All of the foods listed under "good dry foods" in the OP have more that 40% protein.
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Jun 1, 2014 22:10
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You should absolutely take your cat to the vet. Not eating is almost certainly a sign of illness, and it may be something that can easily be treated or managed. People like to recommend canned pumpkin for gastrointestinal issues because of the fiber, so I'm not sure that's going to be helpful for your cat. Also, cats that don't eat enough for several days are at risk of developing a very serious liver problem called hepatic lipidosis. The way to prevent this is with protein. Canned pumpkin does not have much protein in it so it won't prevent liver problems. I would stick to meat-based foods if possible. Turkey and chicken baby food are super stinky and palatable to cats. You could also try canned chicken or tuna, or even something like roast chicken deli meat. Just check the ingredient labels to make sure they don't contain things like onion or garlic powder (common in baby foods). None of those foods are nutritionally complete, but anything is better than nothing until you can get her to a vet.
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Jun 15, 2014 14:31
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Applaws dry food is complete and balanced. It's high in protein and a good dry food as far as I know. Applaws canned foods are "for supplemental feeding only" because they have no added vitamins or minerals. They probably have some taurine by virtue of being full of meat, but they're not complete because they have ingredient lists like "chicken, chicken broth." I'm not really sure why anyone would buy expensive, nutritionally-inadequate canned food intentionally.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:26
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The label directions will tell you to feed too much. If you were feeding a measured quantity of food before, look at the cans/bag/website and figure out how many total calories that was. Then look up the calories of the new food and shoot for maybe 80% of the calories you had been feeding before. You'll probably end up having to go way lower than that since your cat is like 50% body fat, but cats losing weight too fast is a very bad thing, so I'd start there for a few weeks and see how much he loses.Culex posted:You'll almost certainly get better results with an actually grain-free food, as cats don't need the zillion carbs in Purina (at least it's slightly better than Friskies). There's tons of high-protein low-fat 'healthy weight' (this is the term used by the higher end companies instead of 'diet') grain-free wet and dry foods. They'll end up costing you about the same, maybe a smidge more or even less, as you'll have to feed way less food to get your cat the nutrition he needs without all the extra calories. Granted, any higher-end food you feed less of might be enough, without you resorting to 'healthy weight'.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:27
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internet inc posted:We adopted a 3 year old Bernese Mountain Dog a few months ago and we've been feeding him Fromm Adult Gold Dry (same as our 2 year old Lab) ever since. I was reminded that the vet from the rescue said we should feed him his brand of food because he sold a special kind that would help with his articulations. I didn't think much of it at the time because I thought he was just trying to sell me his overpriced food but I'm feeling bad and wondering if I should consider switching him to something else? My dog's weight is great, he loves the food and all that. I think you can add glucosamine with chondroitin or something like that but is it really effective? As for the food, I'm guessing your vet was talking about a prescription joint diet like Hill's j/d or Purina JM. These are basically dog food with a ton of joint supplements added into the food. It's expensive compared to normal food but it comes out about even if you factor in the cost of all the supplements that are already in the diet. I think there have been some questions raised about the shelf life and stability of said supplements once they're mixed into the food, so personally I'd probably stick with regular food unless your dog has terrible joint disease and you're willing to try anything.
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Feb 13, 2015 03:49
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HazCat posted:The problem is that the OP still lists EVO in the top bracket, whereas the latest pages are talking about how badly quality has fallen under P&G, so apparently the OP is a bit out of date? Can anyone tell me if the other brands listed in the top bracket for dry cat food (particularly Wellness Core, Orijen and Nature's Variety Instinct) are still considered better than Felidae?
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Sep 12, 2015 23:47
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Guys his vet went to cornell soo
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Dec 6, 2015 05:24
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There is no way to "ward off" food allergies. They can develop at any time in any animal regardless of how long they've been eating a diet. Food allergies are way less common than allergies to things in the environment like pollen and dust and fleas, so when changing food flavors doesn't help, that's probably why.
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Jun 21, 2016 00:35
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n.. posted:Has anyone used the hairball specific food before? And did it work? My cat has starting barfing up hairballs every day lately.
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Aug 10, 2016 17:24
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shave your cat
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Aug 10, 2016 17:35
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BB has also been sued over false advertising and inaccurate ingredient lists, i.e. foods contained byproducts that weren't listed on the label. Wellness has an excellent track record and owns all the manufacturing plants they use. Easily the better choice imo.
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Dec 11, 2016 23:35
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thebehaviorist posted:Hi thanks for chiming in. I've tried weruvu, tiki cat, lotus, wellness, Orijen, and some others I can't remember. They prefer pate and will only eat chicken. I used to do pumpkin but was wasting those large cans so I switched to fiber powder. I'll go back to the pumpkin though as that did seem to help a bit more. As far as price point I'll pay whatever I need to. It's not an issue. Thank you!
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Jan 23, 2017 03:30
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