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Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

I think we can all agree we want Ma Ha Suchi to be Usama bin Laden and not goat-wolf rape enthusiasm guy.

# ? May 31, 2013 04:42

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:47

Oligopsony: May 17, 2007

I think there's a lot of value in maybe thinking of factions as distinct from splats, like, that Team Oblivion or Team Hell or Team Realm is bigger than the Exalt types traditionally associated with them. I'm not sure if standardized terms like "Iron Faction" does more to usefully allow this or to reify what, after all, should be a fairly broad spectrum of ideological banners to flock to, though.

Mexcillent posted:

I think we can all agree we want Ma Ha Suchi to be Usama bin Laden and not goat-wolf rape enthusiasm guy.

Bureau of Destiny funded MHSC to fight the Fair Folk; Chejop Kejak hid the facts. Think, sheeple!

# ? May 31, 2013 04:54

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

Oligopsony posted:

I think there's a lot of value in maybe thinking of factions as distinct from splats, like, that Team Oblivion or Team Hell or Team Realm is bigger than the Exalt types traditionally associated with them. I'm not sure if standardized terms like "Iron Faction" does more to usefully allow this or to reify what, after all, should be a fairly broad spectrum of ideological banners to flock to, though.

Bureau of Destiny funded MHSC to fight the Fair Folk; Chejop Kejak hid the facts. Think, sheeple!

Which works for those heavily organized splats.

Solars and Lunars were predominately about freedom and coming from a variety of backgrounds. They're individuals, and their individual motivations outweigh the needs or demands of a single faction, and they end up having the power to back that up.

Maybe this is a (late) 2e thing but when did it people start lumping those two, Solars in particular, into the same boat with every other member of their respective splat? It boggles my mind..

# ? May 31, 2013 05:00

GreenMetalSun: Oct 12, 2012

Oligopsony posted:

I think there's a lot of value in maybe thinking of factions as distinct from splats, like, that Team Oblivion or Team Hell or Team Realm is bigger than the Exalt types traditionally associated with them. I'm not sure if standardized terms like "Iron Faction" does more to usefully allow this or to reify what, after all, should be a fairly broad spectrum of ideological banners to flock to, though.

I'm actually curious to see how the Realm/Immaculate Order will view the Exigents and the gods who create them.

If the Exigent is the product of a god loyal to the Realm, maybe they'll have the right to be allotted worship or on the Isle? If they're the creation of a god who opposes the Order, the Dragon-Blooded will be sent to beat them up until they acquiesce?

# ? May 31, 2013 05:03

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

You know, I hope that the writers have enough time to playtest and make a good book. I think that's the big difference on E2 and E1.

I didn't have so many out the gate problems with E1. I imagine that's because the game was in development for a WHILE (like from before the first ad in Hunter or in part at least). I don't know how long the whole system's been in development (I'd guess maybe like since shards?) but I'm really hoping that there's time for the team to make the game a good game, including dealing with the baggage of issuing of unironic pornography as an april fool's joke. But the even worse baggage of a lot of bad expectations for the system.

# ? May 31, 2013 05:05

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

Mexcillent posted:

You know, I hope that the writers have enough time to playtest and make a good book. I think that's the big difference on E2 and E1.

I didn't have so many out the gate problems with E1. I imagine that's because the game was in development for a WHILE (like from before the first ad in Hunter or in part at least). I don't know how long the whole system's been in development (I'd guess maybe like since shards?) but I'm really hoping that there's time for the team to make the game a good game, including dealing with the baggage of issuing of unironic pornography as an april fool's joke. But the even worse baggage of a lot of bad expectations for the system.

Actually, a lot of development went on during late 1e and into 2e's design, Power Combat most notably. And no joke, The Autocthonians might as well have been a playtest for 2e. It had all the precursor mechanics to Excellencies tied up in their charms and Anima power.

Shame they didn't make modules a game-wide thing. I would have liked that more versus fifty billion (permanent) charm upgrades with huge bloated trees.

# ? May 31, 2013 05:10

Denim Avenger: Oct 20, 2010; Excelente

GreenMetalSun posted:

I'm actually curious to see how the Realm/Immaculate Order will view the Exigents and the gods who create them.

If the Exigent is the product of a god loyal to the Realm, maybe they'll have the right to be allotted worship or on the Isle? If they're the creation of a god who opposes the Order, the Dragon-Blooded will be sent to beat them up until they acquiesce?

Depends on how the rewrite the Immaculate Faith, as is though Exigents fit nicely into the definition of an Anthema, power stolen from a God, subverting the "proper" order of reincarnation. Exigents would, without any changes, be put to death just to keep the Immaculate Faith's message very clear.

# ? May 31, 2013 05:14

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

Strength of Many posted:

Shame they didn't make modules a game-wide thing. I would have liked that more versus fifty billion (permanent) charm upgrades with huge bloated trees.

Seconded. I get why the modules didn't worl because there's a few 1e ones that are infamous but they finished 1e with the Autocthonian Crusade and that was pretty drat good module work. I wish they had done that as a model for Exalted2.

Was there a quality drop in and around 2008-09?

# ? May 31, 2013 05:18

Oligopsony: May 17, 2007

Strength of Many posted:

Which works for those heavily organized splats.

Solars and Lunars were predominately about freedom and coming from a variety of backgrounds. They're individuals, and their individual motivations outweigh the needs or demands of a single faction, and they end up having the power to back that up.

Maybe this is a (late) 2e thing but when did it people start lumping those two, Solars in particular, into the same boat with every other member of their respective splat? It boggles my mind..

I dunno, but that's more or less my point, yeah. The kind of Exalt you are is a distinct question from what, if any, major team you're on.

GreenMetalSun posted:

I'm actually curious to see how the Realm/Immaculate Order will view the Exigents and the gods who create them.

If the Exigent is the product of a god loyal to the Realm, maybe they'll have the right to be allotted worship or on the Isle? If they're the creation of a god who opposes the Order, the Dragon-Blooded will be sent to beat them up until they acquiesce?

Good question! The diegetic logic might depend on how they were incorporated into the First Age, and how powerful they can get and so on, but on a metagame level I like the idea of it depends on the status of the god in question: that way you can throw in "hunted down by the Realm!" or leave it as you prefer.

(Of course, the Incarna are totally legitimate gods as far as the Immaculate Philosophy is concerned, but.)

Mexcillent posted:

You know, I hope that the writers have enough time to playtest and make a good book. I think that's the big difference on E2 and E1.

The days of the supplement treadmill are dead; we're living in the age of Kickstarter, POD, and the long tail. On this at least I'm not too worried, though I suppose I could express this cynically as well - the edition isn't actually coming out this year; of that I'm sure.

# ? May 31, 2013 05:18

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

One more Lunars snippet for the night, folks.

For all the bad in 1e, there was a hell of alot of good too. But that can be said of 2e as well.

e: forgot one!

MEETING THE BEAST

Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 05:48 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 05:41

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas". It should cover basically anyone who thrives on survival, from undiscovered tribes to outlaws to mortal Dynasts rejected by their families.

# ? May 31, 2013 06:08

Heart Attacks: Jun 17, 2012; That's how it works for magical girls.

PrinceRandom posted:

My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas". It should cover basically anyone who thrives on survival, from undiscovered tribes to outlaws to mortal Dynasts rejected by their families.

I don't think anyone wants (or expects) a return to 1e (or 2e) Lunars.

# ? May 31, 2013 06:10

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

PrinceRandom posted:

My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas".

Good job Exalted fanbase. Good job.

E: Anything but Indians, please. Anything but Pocahontas.

Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 06:16 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 06:14

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

Mexcillent posted:

Good job Exalted fanbase. Good job.

E: Anything but Indians, please. Anything but Pocahontas.

Did you miss the part where I said Exclusively?

Conan's not an Indian and I led off with him. It seems that from all the side bars that every one brings up that they will focus on a tribal society, and I would like for the concept of survival against conventional civilization to be portrayed in other fashions also. Ya know, like how I said tribal or Dynast? Just like a Solar can exalt in any situation and from any background? Like the Theme of the Lunars is supposed to be survival, stewardship, and self-sufficiency?

PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 06:39 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 06:19

QuintessenceX: Aug 11, 2006; We are reasons so unreal

PrinceRandom posted:

My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas". It should cover basically anyone who thrives on survival, from undiscovered tribes to outlaws to mortal Dynasts rejected by their families.

This seems relevant to your post

Holden posted:

I'll get this out of the way so it doesn't immediately tackle the thread off a cliff and into a bottomless pit:

In 3e you can play a Lunar who was born and grew up in Nexus, who joined the Guild and made a fortune in business, who regularly attends high-society galas in expensive imported Calinese silk gowns, sips tea with her pinky out, and who thinks the centralized welfare state is a pretty great idea. This is just as viable as Solar Conan. Good? Good.

That said, there's a default stone-and-leather slant that colors Lunars. This is your guide to not freaking out: what's going on and why.

Let's start by looking at the idea of "barbarism," because people conflate a lot of stuff into that word. Let's split it up into three sub-concepts:

• Ideological barbarism - barbarism-as-philosophy, barbarism as a deliberate rejection of civilization

• Political barbarism - barbarism-as-lifestyle-- the daily socio-economic-technological realities of groups we identify as 'barbarian' in Exalted

• Stylistic barbarism - the visuals and tropes conjured up by the word 'barbarian' for us, the audience, mostly composed of fantasy readers

We'll start with that first one, because it's the one people are scared to death of. Ideological barbarism is some kind of intentional "barbarian ethos," of the sort that people sometimes think Conan espoused because of quotes that get tossed around-- and to be fair, Conan did say things like "barbarians are much more polite than civilized men, since civilized men do not think, as a matter of course, that they may have their skulls cloven in twain." Ideological barbarism is a deliberate rejection of 'civilized comforts' on philosophical grounds-- a demonization of city-dwelling folks for being 'soft' and 'weak' and 'false' and generally 'non-people,' and thus valid targets for abuse. It's a platform for glorifying the lifestyle of the "political barbarian" (see below) and justifying the superiority of his way of life.

In First Edition, the Lunars were built around ideological barbarism. It was their rock, their way of life, and their thesis as a splat.

Now forget about that completely for a moment-- pretend it has never crossed your mind, because we're going to look at political barbarism as something fully divorced from that concept.

Political barbarism is "real" barbarism (as your average fantasy-fiction-consuming American would understand the term) -- i.e. it's the daily realities of "barbarian" type peoples. In the real world, this is an incredibly diverse grouping that you really don't want to generalize about because it runs the gamut from the historical Mongols (who almost conquered the world) to the plains nations of North America to the Mayans and Olmecs, who had incredibly complex and sophisticated societies and empires, despite that they never really did much of anything with metallurgy or the wheel.

We're going to simplify it down to "guys who don't really build cities, or sustain themselves primarily on sedentary agriculture, or have really good metallurgy or at least not the capabilities for large-scale application thereof." I.e. the wilderness-dwelling, furry-underwear, we-call-our-boss-a-chieftain crowd.

These are extremely diverse groups in Creation, as in the real world, but there are some generalities you can lay down that won't be hilariously wrong too often. Generally they're located in resource-poor regions and are exploited or marginalized by more powerful neighbors. Generally they have much stronger ties to the local spirits than 'civilized' folks do, because they have much greater need of divine protection and assistance. Generally they are impoverished in comparison to their 'civilized' neighbors. Generally some degree of predation on other communities is necessary to handle the necessities of life (you'll notice everything keeps tying back to the fact that these are people situated in resource-poor or otherwise undesirable locations).

Notably, the political barbarian is usually not an ideological barbarian-- like Conan, give him the chance to fill his pockets with jewels and indulge himself in wine, women, fine clothing, and to otherwise reap the benefits of a high-sophistication society, and he'll jump at it. There's a reason these guys raid settled, built-up locations: They want the poo poo those guys have.

Finally, stylistic barbarism is kind of our tentpole here-- there's a definite aesthetic vibe to sun-darkened skin and rippling muscles, which are on display because the character in question is just wearing some animal skins; to a character well-versed in the ways of the wilderness, with honed instincts and practical wisdom; to the idea of fast living, easy violence, and living in the moment. This often doesn't actually mesh with the realities of the political barbarian, but it's the imago that guides our attempts to categorize him, above.

So what about Lunars?

The idea in First Edition was that each splat was a dedicated aesthetic and stylistic package, except for Solars, who were highly versatile. Solars could do most everything, but if you wanted a custom-crafted experience FOCUSED on one thing, you went to the other Exalts: DBs were there for decadent political intrigue, Abyssals for gothic melodrama, and Lunars for barbaric savage fantasy. As a result, they were modeled after the stylistic barbarian, and to really hammer the experience home, were built as ideological barbarians. They were philosophically anti-civilization and anti-intellectual. They were barbarians because "civilization makes you weak."

3e Lunars are not ideological barbarians. Many of them were not born to barbarian peoples (although many were) and have no particular fondness for or attachment to a minimalist frontier lifestyle. They enjoy luxury as much as any other Exalt.

3e Lunars also can't quite be said to be political barbarians. I mean, some of them were! Because political barbarians are marginal peoples, they often don't have much in the way of resources to exploit-- the Realm often looks at them as nuisance groups or potential slave labor pools rather than subjects to be assimilated and exploited. This often pushes them even further out into the wilderness, away from the Realm's sphere of influence. Alternately, those in resource-rich environments (such as the forests of the deep, deep East) are often living in hostile areas that are difficult for outsiders to reach. What that all adds up to is, "a Lunar living in a barbarian society is often much more difficult for the Wyld Hunt to quickly and efficiently target than one living in the Lap." There's natural selection at work there.

But think back to what we said earlier-- the political barbarian is a dude who comes from certain circumstances. He's not usually ideologically married to his lifestyle-- even if he says "being dirt-poor is a virtue!" he is generally saying that because he has no way to change his situation so he may as well take some kind of pride in it. Given the sudden ability to go out and grab whatever he wants from the world, he will generally do so-- his outlook and ambitions won't remain limited and provincial for very long. So even Lunars who are born of barbarian cultures will usually get a perspective bigger than that culture in short order-- either by moving outside of it directly, or by taking it over and transforming it and starting to bump into their political and supernatural neighbors, necessitating a bigger-picture view.

They are, however, intended to partake of stylistic barbarism-- they're designed for it from the ground up and many of their problems in Second Edition came from a deliberate attempt to reject this, I think as a result of conflating it with the other two kinds of barbarism. The fact of the matter is, to the degree that the Exalted splats echo other source material, Lunars are werewolves, tribal legends, and pagan culture-heroes. They're supposed to look rough-edged compared to the more refined Solars; their Attribute magic is supposed to look raw and powerful compared to the deft, polished sheen of Ability magic; their shapeshifting points to a primal font of imagery and aptitude-- their archetypes are "warrior, trickster, shaman."

You can put a twist on this and have Lunar who emphasizes polished sophistication (same as you can have a heavily-armored Sidereal)-- you absolutely can! The Vikings were one of the earlier cultures to have both lawyers and lawsuits. Nothing up there says Lunars have to be simple or dumb. But there's a lot of stuff in the Lunar design that pushes toward a powerful, primal, nature-saturated set of iconography.

The trick, of course, is answering the question "Well, why?" If they tend to get a bigger view of the world and a greater ability to achieve their ambitions than the average tribal dude, why would they continue to hang around and mess with margin cultures? 1e answered "because they are barbarians on an ideological level-- they have a philosophical devotion to the SUPERIORITY of that lifestyle."

That's not the answer 3e is going for. There are some things about 3e Lunars we're not ready to reveal yet, but in general, what we're looking at is to retain some of the baked-in barbarian iconography-- it's a VERY strong wellspring of concepts and images to play with, and I think we'd be fools to discard it in favor of something more amorphous or shallow-- and to maintain the setting phenomenon of heavy Lunar involvement with politically barbaric cultures (note that "heavy" is not "exclusive"). The impetus to such involvement in 3e comes from the history that has shaped the Lunars, and the realities of their current position in Creation. What that means is that, yes, a Lunar may decide to burn down a city or tear up a road-- but if he does so, he has a specific reason for it, because Lunars aren't motivated by the idea that "cities and roads are bad."

Why even do it this way at all, if there are so many thorns to navigate around? Mostly because it's cool. I've been working on Liminals for most of the day today, basking in how awesome it is to get to play with all these peripheral themes branching out from the core idea of Frankenstein-- clone stories, alienation stories, stories about belonging-- and reflecting, occasionally, on how the werewolf gets an even broader range of stuff to play with if you blow it up enough-- never mind bringing in things like the Anansi stories or Robert E. Howard's evocative writing to back it up. All Exalt types need a strong well of iconography to draw on, and it would be foolish not to go mining in a vein as rich as the one the old school Lunars offered up.

I was going to go into the particulars of Lunar-barbarian involvement in 3e in this post but it's already like, jesus, almost 2,000 words long? If I keep going much more I'll have to revive Ink Monkeys and make it a blog post. So how about instead, I open the floor to questions and discussion? If you want to know more about why Lunars are positioned the way they are, shoot. If you don't like the idea of barbarian anything, let's look at the reasons why it may not have been presented in an appealing manner in the past. The shorter and simpler your post, the more likely it is to get a response. Also, before posting it, scroll back up to the top and read the second paragraph again, because it didn't stop being true over the course of the last 1700 words.

# ? May 31, 2013 06:24

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

QuintessenceX posted:

This seems relevant to your post

oh jesus, that pile of retarded.

# ? May 31, 2013 06:50

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

Strength of Many posted:

oh jesus, that pile of retarded.

Yeah. It's pretty telling that the fanbase went off on the admittedly awful rape stuff and not the really awful "Inkas = Some Form of Savage" thing.

Realistically as a gamer of color it never comes out well. Even when people are well-meaning.

E: It might be puzzling to you why the idea of Inkas being "savages" is patently pretty dumb. I don't know what to tell you other than read 1491 or something.

# ? May 31, 2013 06:52

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

PrinceRandom posted:

Did you miss the part where I said Exclusively?

My issue is why you think Pocahontas fits.

Like, you are aware she was a captive, enslaved by an expansionist power? I don't see how that goes against any of her exclusivity unless you weirdly think about Indians as being savages in the broad sense.

If you're confused, here's the society Pocahontas came from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsenacommacah

Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 06:57 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 06:54

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Mexcillent posted:

My issue is why you think Pocahontas fits.

How can there be so much that you don't know?

You~ don't~ know~

# ? May 31, 2013 06:57

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

Mexcillent posted:

Yeah. It's pretty telling that the fanbase went off on the admittedly awful rape stuff and not the really awful "Inkas = Some Form of Savage" thing.

Realistically as a gamer of color it never comes out well. Even when people are well-meaning.

E: It might be puzzling to you why the idea of Inkas being "savages" is patently pretty dumb. I don't know what to tell you other than read 1491 or something.

It reeks of 'presumptuous mid-20s-to-early-30s white dudes writes about non-European cultures and peoples from history'. Calling them savages, much less impoverished savages, is... yeah.

Then he uses Native Americans as another example.

# ? May 31, 2013 06:57

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

Mexcillent posted:

My issue is why you think Pocahontas fits.

It looks they took more thought than and still just ended up with "Well obviously since they have a different societal structure and inhabit a geographical location that isn't the same as ours than us they want to tear everything up and kill poo poo". That seems lazy and has a disturbing implication that somehow tribal societies (or really just non Western or East Asian) are just implicitly violent and envious, like they just can't survive unless they are violent raiders.

# ? May 31, 2013 06:57

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

Attorney at Funk posted:

How can there be so much that you don't know?

You~ don't~ know~

I don't know gross racial stereotypes?

# ? May 31, 2013 06:58

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Mexcillent posted:

I don't know gross racial stereotypes?

No, I was- it's not important

# ? May 31, 2013 06:58

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

PrinceRandom posted:

It looks they took more thought than and still just ended up with "Well obviously since they have a different societal structure and inhabit a geographical location that isn't the same as ours than us they want to tear everything up and kill poo poo". That seems lazy and has a disturbing implication that somehow tribal societies (or really just non Western or East Asian) are just implicitly violent and envious, like they just can't survive unless they are violent raiders.

"Raiding" and "Trade" were difficult to distinguish in the cultures that the 1e version of Creation's "barbarians" was patterned on. I don't know, I'm still pretty curious about why Pocahontas followed Conan in your statement.

E: a brief reference -

http://www.drabruzzi.com/ABRUZZI_Ecology%20of%20Ethnic%20Interactions%20in%20New%20Mexico_1700_1850.pdf

Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 07:05 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 06:59

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

Attorney at Funk posted:

No, I was- it's not important

Wait...I got it now.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:01

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

... I think we are arguing the same thing, but we are going around each other. I'm hoping they get away from the "Noble Savage" trope and the "Muscly Norseman" trope. Both of them have a "Heart of Darkness" feel. Like just because they aren't apart of the domninant civilization, their life is an automatic struggle to survive.

Edit: I never called anyone a savage, did I? I don't recall that. That's the opposite of what I'm meaning to say...

PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 07:11 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 07:09

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

PrinceRandom posted:

... I think we are arguing the same thing, but we are going around each other. I'm hoping they get away from the "Noble Savage" trope and the "Muscly Norseman" trope. Both of them have a "Heart of Darkness" feel. Like just because they aren't apart of the domninant civilization, their life is an automatic struggle to survive.

I don't really care, as long as this poo poo isn't done in tropes. At all. Ever.

E: And, yes, the whole point of "barbarians" in Creation is that since they live apart from the dominant imperial civilization, if they live in the sphere of that civilization, they are engaged in a struggle to survive. Not because of a state of nature, but because the Realm sees them as chattel slavery labor pools/problems in their calculations.

Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 07:17 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 07:10

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

Mexcillent posted:

I don't really care, as long as this poo poo isn't done in tropes. At all. Ever.

That is also my hope, hence my hope that they don't take the splat that has the connotation of "Savage" or "primal" and make the only representatives of that splat come from non-Western societies. They should either broaden the splats connotation or include other cultures.

Edit: I used Pocahontas because I was thinking of the Disney movie when I was thinking of the "Noble Savage" trope as something to avoid. I am sad to say that I really don't know much about her historical life at all.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:14

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

I mentioned offhand to my friends that I wanted to eventually play an octopus-themed Lunar and learned that in Dreams of the First Age an octopus totem Lunar happened to be the husband of an evil transhumanist Solar who knew Kimbery charms, had tentacles on her face, and was literally named "K'Tula".

# ? May 31, 2013 07:19

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

Mexcillent posted:

E: And, yes, the whole point of "barbarians" in Creation is that since they live apart from the dominant imperial civilization, if they live in the sphere of that civilization, they are engaged in a struggle to survive. Not because of a state of nature, but because the Realm sees them as labor pools/problems in their calculations.

This part is what I was hoping they would stick to if they went with the "barbarian" theme. More like they are fighting the Greeks "You aren't us so you are a barbarian" than the stupid 1920-1950 "savage romanticism" definition.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:19

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

PrinceRandom posted:

That is also my hope, hence my hope that they don't take the splat that has the connotation of "Savage" or "primal" and make the only representatives of that splat come from non-Western societies. They should either broaden the splats connotation or include other cultures.

Edit: I used Pocahontas because I was thinking of the Disney movie when I was thinking of the "Noble Savage" trope as something to avoid. I am sad to say that I really don't know much about her historical life at all.

I don't think any of the 'barbarian' cultures I can recall had much Native American styling, unless you want to include the Dragon Kings. The Marukani might've had some Plains influence but they also seemed like they could be 'like' Eurasian steppe nomads. Other than that, and leaving aside the "settled" places like the Haltans, there were... the icewalkers?

# ? May 31, 2013 07:19

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

Ferrinus posted:

I mentioned offhand to my friends that I wanted to eventually play an octopus-themed Lunar and learned that in Dreams of the First Age an octopus totem Lunar happened to be the husband of an evil transhumanist Solar who knew Kimbery charms, had tentacles on her face, and was literally named "K'Tula".

I often wonder how much awful stuff in Exalted comes from the fact that writers put any inane crap into the game they wanted.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:20

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Mexcillent posted:

I often wonder how much awful stuff in Exalted comes from the fact that writers put any inane crap into the game they wanted.

This is probably true of virtually every RPG :sigh:

# ? May 31, 2013 07:23

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

PrinceRandom posted:

This part is what I was hoping they would stick to if they went with the "barbarian" theme. More like they are fighting the Greeks "You aren't us so you are a barbarian" than the stupid 1920-1950 "savage romanticism" definition.

That's.. how barbarians were defined in 2e?? So yes i'm hoping they stick with that. 'You aren't from the Realm so you are a savage.'

Which would,incidentally, include places like oh.. the Confederation of Rivers. Nexus and Great Forks most notably. And Lookshy I guess.

Nessus posted:

I don't think any of the 'barbarian' cultures I can recall had much Native American styling, unless you want to include the Dragon Kings. The Marukani might've had some Plains influence but they also seemed like they could be 'like' Eurasian steppe nomads. Other than that, and leaving aside the "settled" places like the Haltans, there were... the icewalkers?

uh, the Linowan Nation? They're like 1:1 native americans, including all of the tree murder. Dragon Kings are almost strictly mesoamerican and ancient world in feel. Marukani are a bit more generic with touches of Steppes people iirc. Surprise you mentioned Halta but forgot their chief number one enemy.

Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 07:29 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 07:25

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Strength of Many posted:

uh, the Linowan Nation? They're like 1:1 native americans, including all of the tree murder. Dragon Kings are almost strictly mesoamerican and ancient world in feel. Marukani are a bit more generic with touches of Steppes people iirc.

I just realized I actually never read a writeup of the Linowan, except for 'and these are the guys the Haltans have feuds with.' Sounds like I'm not missing a bunch though.

e: SEE?? I guess I just never gave a poo poo about that direction book or was poor when it came out.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:29

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

Nessus posted:

I just realized I actually never read a writeup of the Linowan, except for 'and these are the guys the Haltans have feuds with.' Sounds like I'm not missing a bunch though.

They chop down trees their chief god hates, they're buddy-buddy with the Realm, the entire Tepet Legion Massacre had its catalyst in the Linowans begging them to put down the Bull before he tries to invade them.

Among other things they also make a lot of loving long boats to navigate the rivers in their homeland, don't have a currency system but instead use a weird barter one, treat the Scarlet Empress as a pseudo-divine patron figure, aaannnddd they burn Haltans alive in hollowed trees or something ridiculous like that.

They. Really. Hate. Haltans.

e: they also have a weird skin/hair tone closer to trees, like the Haltans but not green. That's all I can remember off hand anyway.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:31

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

Huh. I suppose I haven't read my 2ed books in quite a while. All the snipets that people were posting were about Animism and tribal raids, and that seems like a narrow concept to base an entire splat around.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:33

Strength of Many: Jan 13, 2012; The butthurt is the life... and it shall be mine.

PrinceRandom posted:

Huh. I suppose I haven't read my 2ed books in quite a while. All the snipets that people were posting were about Animism and tribal raids, and that seems like a narrow concept to base an entire splat around.

Dude.. The entire setting is animist as gently caress. What do you think Little Gods are?

# ? May 31, 2013 07:33

Mexcillent: Dec 6, 2008

Linowans own.

Halta is awful.

More Linowans.

# ? May 31, 2013 07:33

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:47

PrinceRandom: Feb 26, 2013

Strength of Many posted:

Dude.. The entire setting is animist as gently caress. What do you think Little Gods are?

I'm dumb. I was thinking spirit tattoos and dream-walking. Which now that I think on, could be very cool powers to explore further. I'm an idiot who hasn't read the source material in a long time. I blame my tablet breaking for that...

But I did get linked to new things to read on a subject that I've been obsessing on recently, so thanks thread!

PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 07:43 on May 31, 2013

# ? May 31, 2013 07:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Exalted 3E - We're All Exalted Fans Here

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