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Cask 3 clarification question: the map you posted at the top indicates Kill Devil Hills as the supposed site, but in your second post you say it is thought to be on Roanoke Island. There's a pretty significant difference between the two places, and it would help to know which one people think it is and why. e: Assuming it is indeed supposed to be in Roanoke and not Kill Devil Hills, then Verse 11 posted:There's a road that leads to May refer to the colonist and artist John White, who made maps of the Roanoke area. e2: Okay, it's Roanoke, not Kill Devil Hills. There's a silhouette of Roanoke Island in the stones to the right of the armored man. Given that plus the white carnation imagery, I suspect that the Elizabethan Gardens in Manteo may be the site. Part of the garden has a "circle and a square" with a path that leads from it to the coast - that is, presumably to driftwood. No idea what the "mica" is, though. Strongylocentrotus fucked around with this message at 08:49 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 08:03
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Sucrose posted:What are the reasons people are confident they've matched up the pictures with a city? Is it just from latitude/longitude coordinates hidden in each one? Well, here's how I just (as in minutes ago) reached my conclusion about Roanoke being the locale of #3:  Painting on left, satellite shot and map of Roanoke on right. As for exactly where the cask can be found on the island, that's going to be a lot tougher to work out. Going by what the OP said about these things tending to be in parks, that narrows the possibilities down a bit, and like I said in my first post, my kneejerk reaction is to think it's the Elizabethan Gardens.
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May 31, 2013 08:48
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^^ Interesting interpretation of the wing bit. I think you can look toward the Wright Bros. Memorial from that trail...Premeditated Toast posted:I grew up on the Outer Banks, and I think they may in fact be referring to it STARTING at Roanoke Island: Oho, your interpretation makes sense. Nags Head woods had actually crossed my mind when I first read the verse (the "dark forest" and "trail to mica and driftwood" parts), but I jumped back to thinking Roanoke when I found the island's silhouette in the painting. It'd be great if your sister could do some on-the-scene investigation. I haven't visited the Outer Banks in years, and now that I live on the opposite side of the country, I probably won't be going back anytime soon, alas. I can only speculate based on my memory of the place. Rehashing what people have proposed thus far and adding some thoughts of my own: Verse 11 posted:Pass two friends of octave Drive past Kill Devil Hills/the Wright Bros. memorial * So apparently the path from the sunken garden to the sound is called the "Water Gate Walk". Guess when the Watergate scandal heated up for Nixon? That's right, July and August.  I'm going to go ahead and propose that  Cask 3 is buried somewhere below the gate in the Elizabethan Gardens here: You're welcome, now send me some of that sweet sweet money and/or a shard from the cask that I can frame. Strongylocentrotus fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 07:02
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Sham I Am posted:That was over 400 years ago. how long do trees live? They can live a long time, depending on species of the tree and environmental conditions. But to the best of my knowledge the Croatan carving/tree are long lost to history and biological decay, and no one knows exactly where it was originally located.
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Jun 1, 2013 07:32
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Premeditated Toast posted:I know exactly which gate you're talking about, Please do! I'd be there shovel in hand if I could. I'm actually going to be in the mid-Atlantic region this week, but I doubt I'll have the means/time to drive down to the Outer Banks. It'd be awesome if you could check it out soon. My one big fear is that between all the hurricanes and shoreline migration that occur on sandy barrier islands, the cask may have been washed away by now. Hope he buried it deep.
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Jun 1, 2013 07:51
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It's the gate us darned local kids would use to sneak into the place at night
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Mnemosyne posted:Sorry it's so sloppy, I'm using the touchpad of a laptop (and it's 3am). Premeditated Toast posted:Besides some minor renovations over the years, yeah it's stayed the same. I also noticed this while looking at your pics, Mnemosyne: Well I'll be. Great finds, and in the context we're working with, they seem to confirm the guesstimate of the location. I hope some intrepid goon is willing to brave arrest and/or odd looks from passersby in order to check it out: I want to know if my stupid idea was right so I can add "helped find the location of a long lost gaudy ceramic pot from the 80s" to my resume. TShields posted:Be careful, guys.. don't get arrested for digging up a national park for a ceramic pot buried by someone with way too much time on their hands. We've had goons willing to risk their fingats for comedy and internet fame before, surely someone is willing to dodge arrest in order to dig up a clay sugar pot with a useless key inside. Realtalk though, if Cask 3 is buried by the gate in the Elizabethan Gardens, it might actually be on the public beach side, in which case I think you might be in the clear to dig to your heart's content.
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Jun 1, 2013 16:08
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Premeditated Toast posted:Does anyone know how deep down the two found casks were buried? Any idea how much storm surge exposure the northern soundside stretch of Roanoke's coast gets? I hope it hasn't been washed over too badly in the last two decade's storms. A sandy shore isn't the most stable of all places. 
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Jun 1, 2013 20:30
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Sham I Am posted:Roanoke One of those (upper right) is St. George's Cross, which flies on flags above the entrance to the Elizabethan Gardens.
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Jun 3, 2013 04:56
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GWBBQ posted:I completely agree. I want to challenge a few assumptions we've been working on for cask 12. Don't know if this is worth anything or has any deeper meaning to the treasure hunt, but that bird is a bit of a chimera. It has the body, legs, and wings of a gull (or gull-like marine bird) but a very eagle-ish, stylized head. Seems intentional... I cannot imagine a professional artist charged with such detailed illustrations screwing up an eagle's body and wings that badly.
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Jun 3, 2013 05:25
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Pilot to Gunner posted:Ha, the first thing I said when I saw the illustration for cask 12 was- "what's up with the eagle head on that seagull?"  Bird nerds!The gull part ties in nicely with the oceanic theme the rest of the picture has going on, but I have no clue what it actually means. There may be significance in the feathers missing on its right wing, too. Outline of something?
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Jun 3, 2013 06:10
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RoanokeMnemosyne posted:I was reading Tweleve.org and it was mentioned that due to it's historical significance, digging on Roanoke is a federal crime. Given the amount of construction on the island over the past few decades, there has got to be some kind of exception, or Tweleve.org is overstating things. Plus the Elizabethan Garden folks are inevitably digging up and planting new plants in the garden every once in awhile, that's just part of maintaining an arboretum. Perhaps there are only issues regarding messing around at the historical site of Fort Raleigh? Anyway, Premeditated Toast posted that he has contacts in the local park service, so maybe he can get clearance/confirmation from them about whether it's okay to do some shallow digging around the gardens. I don't entirely follow the arguments that the the cask is at the Wright Brothers Memorial. Everything in the poem and image so far point to Roanoke, and specifically the Elizabethan Gardens, as the most likely location. See my summary here and the stuff Mnemosyne found in the image here (as well as Premeditated Toast's observation here). All of that seems way, way more suggestive of the gardens than Kill Devil Hills. As I'm interpreting things, the Wright Bros. Memorial is important as a reference point but not as the actual location.
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Jun 5, 2013 05:50
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RoanokeSham I Am posted:Roanoke The main reservation I have about the landing site idea is that the directions would have essentially taken the reader in a full circle. Remember that the start of the verse tells the reader to pass the memorial and then cross the Washington Baum Bridge, which takes them away from the location of the first flight. It seems very odd (and literally roundabout!) to then route the reader through Roanoke and back across the waters to the memorial. It's possible, as you noted at the end, but a key question I have is, is that kind of twisty-turny set of directions consistent with the two found casks and their accompanying verses? That, and all of the imagery in the book links the Cask 3 site to something Elizabethan, rather than to our good ol' American friends Wilbur and Orville. Then again, there is a lot of circular imagery in the illustration -- all those key rings and bubbles -- so heck, maybe there is something to the Wright Bros. site. We ought to compile a shortlist of proposed Cask 3 sites with the supporting evidence/interpretation. I can try to do it later this week, unless someone else wants to give it a shot first!
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Jun 5, 2013 23:07
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Any news on Roanoke? That feels like the one we're closest to finding, just need to get some brave soul on the ground to start rooting around for it.
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Jun 13, 2013 15:20
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grendelspov posted:It's a seat but not a bench. It would be the last seat filled and the cask is due north relative to the seat Nope, not a seat. The Lost Colony amphitheater underwent renovation in 1996-1997 during which its wooden benches were replaced with the fold-down seats visible in the picture you posted. (source) So during Preiss' time, there would have been no seats, only rows of benches.
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Jul 3, 2013 05:20
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xie, you mentioned a few pages back that you don't think Roanoke is the actual site of the Outer Banks cask. Would you be okay with sharing your alternative theory? When I first read this thread like a year or so ago, I thought everything in Verse 11 pointed directly toward either the Elizabethan Gardens or Fort Raleigh. I'm not sure how to interpret the verse in a way that takes the reader away from Roanoke instead of toward it.
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Nov 8, 2014 03:34
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xie posted:I just meant not on the Federal land, not that it was altogether elsewhere. There's a particular bench people on the Internet are nuts over. Ah, gotcha. I don't think it's under the bench either. You may be thinking of the same place I've been suspecting since the beginning of this thread (i.e. the gate I posted about a long time ago, it's somewhere in my post history in this thread).
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Nov 8, 2014 04:24
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Also, here's a little content and I say this as someone who walked nearly every bit of walkable Roanoke beach from east/south part of the fort to the north/west part of the Elizabethan Gardens (which I enjoyed, btw): Cask 3 is out of play. There's nothing that looks like or matches Preiss's image. Whatever was "last touched or first seen standing" on those beaches and can be found hidden in that image was remodeled, demolished, or eroded. And if you say "well it's somewhere else" then you have become a crazy maniac. You can match every verse line to starting at Kill Devil Hills and ending up on a beach on Fort Raleigh. And I walked it all, and there's nothing there to find anymore. I am confident it is/was under the center of the gate at the end of the Watergate Walk trail in the Elizabethan Gardens. The cask is probably not there anymore thanks to natural and storm-driven erosion on the beach and/or remodeling of the gardens. Yo, Jockstrap, is the gate gone now too or is it still there? I can post a ~proof~ with the verse/image/clues if people want it, but I think I already posted my theory a year or so ago, so just look at my post history in the thread for the deets. Anyway, the only thing I want to add is that I'm pretty sure the Elizabethan Gardens are not within the Fort Raleigh park boundaries, so digging in the gardens might be legal as long as you have permission from the garden administration. ... have any of the treasure-hunters (here or on Q4T) actually, like, spoken to the Elizabethan Gardens staff? Or are people just assuming you can't dig there because it's near the fort, and the fort is a park, and parks are protected? Sometimes talking to people can accomplish things, as difficult and non-goony as that may seem. I'd want to do more but I kind of live on the opposite side of the country from Roanoke, haven't been to the Outer Banks for years, and do not feel like taking a vacation there in order to root around looking for a gaudy old chunk of ceramics. Good luck to anyone who wants to try.
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Nov 11, 2014 02:13
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xie posted:Multiple people have spoken to everyone there, yes. There have been multiple tours and photo taking trips. I think the consensus was similar to yours. I mentioned to someone earlier that the thought was no federally protected land, I just couldn't remember the name of the gardens. Yeah, this map makes it look like the gardens are outside the park boundary. I imagine the garden staff themselves do a lot of digging as part of basic garden maintenance (adding/removing plants, maintaining irrigation systems, etc). So they must have some kind of permission to dig there. Maybe if potential diggers pitched this to the Elizabethan Gardens as an opportunity for publicity with the worst case scenario being "no cask, but no harm done", the staff would be receptive.
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Nov 11, 2014 02:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Bad things about the gate: Boop, slow reply from me, sorry. Anyway, yeah, the Watergate thing is definitely the biggest Urban Smurf of mine (I love that Urban Smurfing is now a verb, ty Urban Smurf). The main reason I was inclined to interpret "July and August" as referential rather than literal was because of how December was used earlier in the verse to indicate the highway rather than a literal month. So if Preiss had any internal consistency (lol), July and August should be referential/figurative too. The gate would be the last thing that you touch (push open) while walking down that path toward the beach, and also the first thing physically standing in your way on the path. I think. Unless there's something else across the path further back in the gardens. There are a few other tidbits hidden in the drawing that I'll mock up in a picture later. They include: the outline of the borders of the garden, the rough shape of the main paths in the garden, and the Wright Brothers memorial from the angle you'd see it from Roanoke. But yeah there's a lot of other weird poo poo in the painting that I cannot interpret at all. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:There's no amount of analysis that will bring you to the Roanoke cask, for instance. It's gone. And don't be silly and say "no it's not there, you have it wrong, if you just try somewhere else..." It's there, the verse is airtight to bring you to Fort Raleigh and one of three beach paths, but then you get there and see the eroded shores, the collapsed fences, the remodel, the general wear on everything near the beach, and can't find a match to the image that's helpful: it's done. This is the uncrossable chasm. Pretty much this. I'd like to see someone sink a shovel into the sand under the gate just for funsies, but in reality the cask probably washed away during one of the numerous storms that wiped the coast between the 80s and now. I'll post an attempted Roanoke solve for shits n' giggles sometime down the line when I care and have enough time. Would be nice to pull all the evidence together in one place. I can explain away most of the verse and some elements of the image, but there's a ton of stuff in the image that makes no sense and apparently has no analogue in the gardens. pee pee doo doo preiss was a bad puzzle writer
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Nov 13, 2014 07:31
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xie posted:(dig stuff!) Pretty impressive match with the patterning on the underside of the lamp. One crucial question, though: was that specific streetlamp in the park back in the 1980s? Or is it a newer installation?
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Nov 24, 2014 05:22
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Sweet. I was wondering if the city had replaced the lamps in the interim in order to update them, but switching to new LEDs and leaving the lamps themselves answers my question. Given that, your site looks like one of the more promising matches so far. Good luck with digging, hope you don't get busted. Try to look official, maybe? If you act like you're supposed to be there, doing your thing, passersby might assume you're a groundskeeper or something.
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Nov 24, 2014 06:10
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