Laptop Megathread: Your laptop doesn't have Haswell? More like Hasbeen~

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Laptop Megathread: Your laptop doesn't have Haswell? More like Hasbeen~

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sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

BurritoJustice posted:

The newest Creator laptops, the Z16P and Z17 are unique in that they have digitisers for pen support on a full size laptop. Wildly expensive but the spec sheet on them is hard to beat.

Two weeks ago I ordered a Z16 Fujiwara edition, basically a Z16 with a HDR1000 miniLED panel on sale, but it came with a bunch of scratches on the screen, I'm guessing from something gritty being caught in the lid during shipping, so it's currently in the mail back. I was also dumb and didn't notice the Fujiwara edition drops pen/touch due to the unique screen, so if I can get a refund for it I'll likely be looking at the base model Z16p (which is still wild with a 12700H, 3070ti and 1600p165hz screen).

Interesting thing I discovered that wasn't on the spec sheets, the Z16 screen supports Freesync/adaptive sync. Only 60Hz-165Hz range, but you can enable frame multiplying to go below that.

This is very interesting. What exactly is the difference between the z16 vs z17? The Z17 seems to have the latest 12th gen I9, so maybe that's it... (?) 16 vs 17 inch screen?

How many other touch screen / hybrid / 2 n 1 machines have an alder lake / 12th gen I9?

BurritoJustice: When you say "unique in that they have digitisers for pen support on a full size laptop" ? Not sure what you mean here. One is 16 inches and one is 17 inches. Surface and Surface book laptops feature touch screens, as do the Zenbooks and the Spectre and a bunch of others.

Just not sure which ones are Wacom digitizers. Preferrably with a 12th gen I9...?
Also maybe a dumb question but what does the Ti designate? I noticed some of the Creators were 3060 and some were 3070Ti.

These Creators are definitely expensive regardless of their configurations.
https://www.excaliberpc.com/774486/msi-creator-z17-a12ugst-049-lunar.html

The Asus Zenbook, X13, Duo, and I think even the vivo book are all touch screen - so the MSI Creator has a lot of competition from Asus in the digital art computer category. Just wish I could look at these models in person. The best buy stores nearby have a pretty limited selection and there isn't much else locally.

Not to sound like a broken record but it would be super cool to see how well the Acer Ezel 7 transforms but holy hell that's an expensive laptop.
https://www.amazon.com/ConceptD-CC715-71-7163-Convertible-i7-10875H-Validated/dp/B087Z87GVN

sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Mar 21, 2022

# ¿ Mar 21, 2022 18:04

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 12:07

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

BurritoJustice posted:

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I've been researching these for a while now, and the stack is a little confusing. When I said "full size laptop", the Z17 is the first 17" laptop with a digitiser, and the Z16 isn't the first but it's rare in the >15 market.

The Creator Z16 is the original design, launched with 11th gen. It only comes with a 3060 GPU at max, and has no pen digitiser options, only a touch and non-touch screen. The Hiroshi Fujiwara edition (which I got for $3000 AUD but was forced to return), is an 11th gen Z16 but with one of the best panels you can find on a laptop. It's a similar screen (same manufacturer) to the miniLED on the M1 Max Macbook Pro, but much faster (165Hz, extremely low measured pixel response times, and GSync support). Unfortunately, I learnt too late that it doesn't have any touch or digitiser support, and mine arrived damaged. The screen was absolutely stunning, however.

At the start of the year they announced 12th gen updates to the creator line in the form of two new models. The main two here are the Z16P and Z17. The Z16P is the same form factor as the Z16 but has a number of improvements. It is slightly thicker to accomodate a vapour chamber cooler, they moved up the whole keyboard by reducing the size of the vents to allow a larger touchpad, and they changed to the same panel as the Fujiwara Z16 but without the miniLED, main difference in the screen over the stock Z16 is better colour coverage (95% AdobeRGB), 165Hz vs 120Hz, and adaptivesync/gsync support. The killer feature though is touch being standard, as well as MPP2.0 pen support. The added cooling allows a higher power limit on the GPU, 90w vs 65w, and you can go above the 3060 to even a 3080ti (though I believe the 3070ti is the sweet spot). They also upped the webcam to a 1080p model from 720p, which is great bc the 720p one was poo poo.

The Z17 is basically a slightly sized up Z16P, same processor/GPU options. If you look at the dimensions it's not actually that much larger than the Z16P as they mostly cut down the bottom bezel. You can expect the larger laptop to run a bit cooler/quieter due to the size but it's a space trade-off. You also get HDMI 2.1 on the Z17.

Now, after all this, they quietly released a 2022 version of the original Z16. A few of the newer features carried over, like the numpad and larger touchpad, but otherwise it's just an older model with 12th gen. It still caps at a 3060, but now at 70w. No new vapour chamber, same older display and webcam etc

Another plus I'd add for MSI is they have the single most open and comprehensive BIOS of any laptop I've ever seen. You can tweak basically every single low level setting, and it even supports XMP on the memory so you don't have to find expensive and slow 3200C22/4800C40 JEDEC memory if you want to add more to the system. Hell, it supports manual memory OC and you can change basically every power/voltage/ratio option but the core multiplier. It's also a plus that it comes with two M.2 4x4.0 slots.

The precalibration on the screen was great. There is a built in program to swap between ICC profiles and even clamp to sRGB, precalibrated for AdobeRGB(95%)/DCI-p3(100%)/display-P3(100%)/sRGB(100%++)

I'm seriously considering going for the Z16P with the 12700H+3070ti option once my Fujiwara return comes through, but there is a large markup in Australia so I am trying to find it overseas reshipped or something. It's $2999 USD online or $5799 AUD locally, which is completely unpalatable. If it's within budget though I think that fits your original requirements perfectly.

The ConceptD is a beautiful computer, and the fold forward design is cool, but the specs are outdated by now and it's absurdly expensive.

This is really great info but I am still a little confused because of all the various MSI creator models. Most importantly which ones EXACTLY supports a stylus? Preferrably with the current I9 in it, but I would be OK with last year's too at this point.
This one seems perfect but doesn't appear to be touch screen:
https://www.adorama.com/msicr1511492.html
This one is almost 1500 more, has the same 3080 in it, and STILL has no touch screen (!)
https://www.adorama.com/msic17b11495.html
Does this one support a stylus? Does multitouch automatically mean stylus support? So confusing. Guessing P means "pen"?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1643841-REG/msi_z16_a11uet_046_creator_z16_i7_11800h_16gb.html

I need the best i7 or i9 + nvidia gpu combo in hybrid / touchscreen format ideally. I thought the MSI Creator might be it but now I am not so sure.
Don't the Asus Creator laptops also come with stylus? Specifically I am thinking of the zenbook duo and the x13?

The Asus Creator line seem like more bang for buck, although I am not fond of the x13 being locked at 16gig ram. The zenbook duo is also kind of an interesting, odd duck. Not sure how I feel about articulating screens but more screen space, especially with a stylus is kind of a novel idea. Just feels like the secondary screen would break easily and I am still confused if a stylus works with both of them.

Acer Concept D is very cool but you are right ultimately - too much money for old tech. Just noticed this Surface Laptop Studio existed and it looks a much better option.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F8XX4NS/ref=redir_mobile_desktop

Guess I could just give up on a built in tablet, but I feel like last year's tech is strong enough for most 3d sculpting stuff, so a i7 or i9 with nvidia gpu 2070 or better should be plenty in a tablet or hybrid. Why are there so relatively few? Heat issues? The surface book 2 got pretty drat hot.

The form factor of the MS Surface Laptop Studio and Acer Concept D really appeal to me because after using the MS Surface Book 2 for years, it just makes sense to get the screen closer vs. detach completely from a base.

sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Mar 23, 2022

# ¿ Mar 23, 2022 04:45

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

Going tomorrow to pick up my G15 from Best Buy for repair. Will be happy to have it back but I am going to miss this MSI GS66 when I return it.

Kinda talked myself into getting either the MSI Creator Z16P OR the Zenbook Pro Duo when I can scrape the funds together. Both are very highend machines at around 3k, so I am going to have to save up a bit but the more I look at the Zenbook Pro Duo, the more I like it for 3d. Wayyy out of budget but maybe get last year's model instead?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1671280-REG/asus_ux582hs_xh99t_15_6_zenbook_pro_duo.html

Does anyone see any clear advantages the MSI Creator Z16P has over the Zenbook Pro Duo other than form factor / size / weight? The MSI looks much less chunky. However, I really like the idea of having a secondary screen as a touch screen / tablet, but in practice? I mean - wouldn't that extra screen easily snap off?

Realizing I use a keyboard with literally EVERYTHING I do so a hybrid / transformer thing doesn't make a lot of sense. However drawing / painting / sculpting on two touch sensitive screens at 4k OLED sounds very appealing at least.

sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Mar 24, 2022

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 08:27

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

Thanks to all the people who have responded to me in this thread. It has been immensely helpful!

Still trying to decide betwen the MSI Creator or the Zenbook Duo Pro.

Would really prefer to have a tablet built in but still be powerful enough to use for 3d or VJ work. My Asus G15 is my daily driver and it's plenty powerful but I miss having a touch screen and I want this other machine for sculpting on the go primarily.

Something like an ipad pro or surface might be fine for painting but that zenbook duo pro has the tablet built in and then some - with plenty of horse power. The MSI Creator has less screen space but feels like a Macbook pro with a cintiq built in. Speaking of cintiqs... very happy I never bought a Wacom Studio Pro, which I considered years ago... Ugh. Whatever option I go with needs a keyboard and preferrably not one that detaches. The form factor on the Zenbook Duo Pro is primarily weird becuase it has no wrist rest to type and carrying around a wrist rest seems like an odd solution. A minor complaint compared to two built in touch screens though.

In a distant 3rd I was thinking about a Legion. It's not touch screen of course but...
apparently the entire event staff at GDC were all using Legion 7 series laptops. That's very telling.

Maybe it's best to give up the idea of the Zenbook duo pro or MSI Creator in favor of the Legion plus a tablet to plug into it. Would really prefer to have the tablet built in though. Even last year's hybrids / transformers are plenty powerful for most 3d work.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1671656-REG/asus_ux482egr_xb77t_i7_1195g7_32gb_1tb_ssd.html
Another grand plus gets me a 16 inch screen and 4k OLED AND a 3080. Hmm. Seems like the 14inch one would still make a fine machine for sculpting on the go and much cheaper.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1671280-REG/asus_ux582hs_xh99t_15_6_zenbook_pro_duo.html

# ¿ Mar 29, 2022 08:04

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

Random question: I have heard of some laptops that charge phones with the lid closed. Meaning you set the phone on top of the laptop to charge it. Is this a thing? Or am I just thinking of fancy workstation cases? Even if the phone charged by setting it next to the trackpad - that would be slick.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2022 22:34

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

A couple of months ago I thought I had a good idea of what kind of laptop I wanted but since then there have been so many releases by Asus, Lenovo and MSI, I am just not so sure anymore.

Best CPU / GPU combo still applies, and I would still rather have touch screen, but now there are so many OLED models out... but not very many OLED with touch screen I have noticed...

Is there one decidedly better for digital sculpting, digital art, or just making 3d on the go?

I would prefer an I9 (alder lake) with an Nvidia GPU but everything else is negotiable... including the touchscreen. The newer Legions are looking pretty nice, as are the vast amount of new Asus laptops. Is there anyone with strong opinions on any of these new machines for digital creators? Kinda don't want to carry around an extra tablet but even the 13 huion tablet (with screen) is under 200 bucks (!) now so...

# ¿ Jun 17, 2022 14:31

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

Lockback posted:

My opinion is you're probably better off with a separate tablet, as much of a pain in the rear end that is. That said I am not a digital creator so it's possible bundling everything has gotten better.

The Legion 7/7pro's are really nice, I probably like them more than the Asus G15. The G14 is the undisputed champ when it comes to portability in a gaming machine, though you'll want last years model for the NVidia GPU, though thats a AMD CPU. MSI has some decent options on the high end, the lower end has sub-par heat/build quality (though still good for the money).

Yeah - I have heard nothing but good things about the legions. My friend has a legion 7 slim and loves it. Also - I am envious of the ports on the back. Not to mention the higher TDP.
Having said that the Asus Pro Art line and the zenbook duo pro both still have some appeal - as does the MSI Creator line.
https://www.asus.com/us/site/letscreate/studiobook.html
I can't help but feel that - like most art stores - laptops aimed at creatives might be uh... overpriced for what you get (?)

Especially considering how the prices of tablets (and tablets with screens) have dropped so much in price.

That OLED zenbook duo pro looks cool for all that extra screen real estate buuuut.... terrible ergonomics. I have to carry around a wrist rest and attach it on the go...? I think at this point I might prefer carrying around that extra tablet.
I noticed that one of the Asus creator models actually featured drawing on the trackpad with a stylus (!?!) I really have to wonder about that. A trackpad is not exactly a comfortable size to draw on.

The new MSI Stealth is indeed very impressive and a strong contendor against the Legion but I have read that the GS76 is significantly louder than the GS66 stealth. I am not sure how much I care but that old GS66 was SUPER quiet. My friend has one and I can attest to the power to silence ratio. Only downside is that it got *really* hot. I will say it felt *snappier* than my Asus G15 but that was before my ram upgrade. 16 vs. 40 gigs of ram makes a BIG difference IMO.

Valve Steam Deck posted:

Funny that some laptops using the latest AMD chips finally have Thunderbolt support but the Steam Deck does not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCgC0WZp_X0

Hey - that's pretty cool actually. I kinda like the zenbook line!

# ¿ Jun 19, 2022 18:36

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

Big Mackson posted:

Port placement is nice but my experience with legion after a couple weeks are

1. usb device/devices disconnects when computer is switching between gpus
2. the screen freezes 1-2 seconds when switching between gpus
3. you need to switch to nvidia only if you are going to change g-sync settings and other things in nvidia control panel
4. it play games good 5/5

This is interesting. I have read that the mux switch is usually a better way to switch between GPUs. I don't think I would ever purposefully switch gpus with the machine on. This used to happen with my surface book 2 and it was incredibly infuriating. Meaning - it would switch GPUs randomly (detached randomly) and cause things to crash (understandably). Usually GPUs get switched when the power gets removed / laptop gets unplugged.

Any other gripes about the Legion?

Just curious because they seem pretty rock solid.

Any reason not to get one of the new Asus OLED machines? Like the X16 as an example?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9IE0LzuR6k

Kind of wish the OLED screens weren't so glossy. The physical dial is cool but it looks like it gets in the way more than anything else - especially since I am left handed.

Oh heeeey - the new Asus X16 is touch screen and has a stylus (?!?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWqlDixckSI

sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jun 21, 2022

# ¿ Jun 21, 2022 08:44

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Well, it's a good thing that the crypto markets have crashed, because I don't know what would be more insufferable, Apple cultists lauding the hardware superiority, or the bitching about availability.

edit: An ungenerous reading of the above could be interpreted as libelous accusations against the quoted goon or the quoted tweet. Not you, not them, just *that guy that we all know*.

THIS!!!

# ¿ Jul 4, 2022 08:05

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

I am once again looking at laptops and I want to ask - what's the best portable art tool?

Sorta convinced myself that for a portable workstation, Lenovo Legions are best but I am interested more in something that competes with an ipad - but is a PC. Mostly I am wondering this because the new asus zenbook isn't bad but the x13 looks even more interesting. Both as a tablet and a 3d workstation. I don't need 100million + triangles to sculpt well but having the ability to sculpt AND paint on the go seems very doable now. So what is the most elegant solution? Is there a very portable PC tablet with a currrent Nvidia chip that competes in a class like the ipad but more friendly to 3d artists?

Thanks thread!!

sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 09:42 on May 6, 2023

# ¿ May 6, 2023 09:24

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

More wondering if there is a suitable ipad replacement given that I do a lot of work with Zbrush.

# ¿ May 8, 2023 07:09

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 12:07

sigma 6: Nov 27, 2004; the mirror would do well to reflect further

Lockback posted:

https://slickdeals.net/f/16651052-l...iteSearchV2Algo

4060 GPU, when using the iGPU doing normal tasks should get ~6 hours of battery life or close enough, 1600p.will run re4 pretty well. Legion is in general a great laptop.

That looks like a beast. What are the differencces between the Legion 5 and Legion 7? They both seem very capable but the legion 7 is notably more expensive.

I pulled the trigger on that ipad pro but for what I paid I am genuinely wondering if I should have spent the money on a legion or even an Asus Z13, which it turns out, is much cheaper. Trying to find a portable 3d workstation AND a perfect drawing / painting tablet doesn't really seem to exist. The Z13 comes closest (?) but until I get the hang of the ipad pro - the jury is still out.

While on the topic of ipad vs. PC tablet. Can anyone recommend a sturdy ipad AND laptop stand which folds out AND holds the weight required to draw on a tablet? There are a dizzying array of foldable laptop stands out. This one looks good but I am afraid it will swivel when I put too much pressure leaning on it for drawing. Was hoping to use it in a standing AND sitting stand for drawing / painting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2P4B8WL/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1VCRDPIX0NQ5B&psc=1

Also - is this the most powerful laptop cpu out ATM? (AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYWXXGLX?tag=bgfg-wepc-us-20&geniuslink=true&th=1

sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 17:24 on May 21, 2023

# ¿ May 21, 2023 17:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Laptop Megathread: Your laptop doesn't have Haswell? More like Hasbeen~

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