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Regarding IR (smell-o-)vision: right now, every heat signature uses the same icon. Would it be difficult to make them use icons according to size? I can't tell a sparrow from a hulk unless I laboriously examine each one (with no snap-to, natch,) and being able to sort away the birds from the potential dangers by icon alone would speed up IR gameplay quite a bit.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:09
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Look, these are fairly reasonable questions but none of the work I do has anything to do with tilesets. I do not understand how they work. I work on the c++ and json code. What the art assets look like has nothing to do with me. I feel like every time I post something here, people just want to nitpick and complain about it. I was hoping someone would at least say "wow cool" before we hit a new page and all my work got hidden. This took me dozens of hours and multiple years learning to code for the express purpose of working on this game. Please just go comment on the pull request or make a github issue if you have a feature request. edit: im tripping I guess. The last few times, people were cool. worm girl fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 20:16
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I think maybe you're carrying frustration from somewhere else into here, Gwyneth Palpate pretty much always means well, I think their intention was to be helpful.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:20
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Yeah you're probably right. Sorry to bite your head off specifically, Gwyneth.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:26
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That all looks extremely cool and I really appreciate the time you've put into making mutations more useful and varied.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:36
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ye for the record I read all that, was super impressed, and had nothing to say beyond "drat that's really cool". I can see now how that'd have prolly have been worth saying, but at the time, responding to an obvious mountain of effort with a low effort post felt dumb like, Gwyneth went in and actually played with the stuff, that felt like where the bar was at
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Jan 21, 2024 20:41
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ComradePyro posted:I think maybe you're carrying frustration from somewhere else into here, Gwyneth Palpate pretty much always means well, I think their intention was to be helpful. This was the intention, yeah. Sorry. I got lost in the minutiae (as I am wont to do) and forgot that part of the reason you were posting at all was to vent about the lovely way your other mutation changes got handled by the devs. The bat mutation looks like it's well-designed; I especially appreciate the verisimilitude between a mutated human and the general behaviors of the animal in question. It really keeps the "transhumanism" vibe of mutation in this game alive. e: ComradePyro posted:like, Gwyneth went in and actually played with the stuff, that felt like where the bar was at I didn't. I don't think I could have? It sounded like the changes being described weren't even up for a PR yet. My "infrared icon" thing was based off of a completely unrelated gameplay experience; namely, the infrared CBM.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:44
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https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/70797 Actually the PR is up here. It's still a draft and throws a couple of errors, but it should compile, not that anyone should bother doing all that since this stuff will likely be merged in a couple weeks. I'm currently fighting a longstanding bug with IR vision that prevents it from seeing through smoke. I don't know if it's possible to fix it without building an entirely new map cache on top of the ones it already does, which would probably seriously harm performance for a pretty marginal benefit. worm girl fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 20:52
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lol yeah i haven't written any C or C++ in literally 20 years, there was no chance of me having a dev environment to compile my own thing from a PR
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Jan 21, 2024 21:00
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That segment of your LP where you submitted a PR and got it approved was what got me to start contributing to the game myself, and now it's the furthest I've ever gone into open source dev. Thanks for all you're doing!
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Jan 21, 2024 21:01
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worm girl posted:Look, these are fairly reasonable questions but none of the work I do has anything to do with tilesets. I do not understand how they work. I work on the c++ and json code. What the art assets look like has nothing to do with me. Quite frankly, I think of you as the closest thing to an ambassador this game has. While TheMurderUnicorn does also have good CDDA content on YouTube, as far as I'm aware he doesn't participate in development beyond reporting the occasional bug and asking questions about recent additions for his video changelogs. I consider myself a competent programmer and have been coding professionally for nearly a decade, but I am not nearly as ambitious as you seem to be and the sheer size and complexity of the codebase turns me off from doing anything interesting. Hell, even my most intensive contributions (converting batteries into magazines, jsonizing the sidebars) are mostly or entirely JSON based, only using C++ to fix bugs that pop up. Someone else did the C++ code that allowed me to organize existing sidebar widgets the way I did. I haven't reviewed your code changes very deeply so I can't comment on their quality, but you haven't introduced any game breaking bugs to the experimental releases and you're a hell of a lot braver than I am. Inglonias fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 01:40
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Thanks, I don't know what got into me this morning. I didn't mention it in the thread but I spent nine hours yesterday trying to fix infrared vision. It's actually subtly hosed up in two different ways on top of the thing Gwyneth Palpitate pointed out, and grappling with the map cache/raycasting system is the most frustrating thing I've ever tried to do in this game. So maybe I just had a mini aneurysm when someone suggested doing more with it. Still not cool of me, but lol also. And IDK, I just really like mutants, especially the really weird ones with tons of drawbacks. There's something cool about playing a snail or something and suddenly you're Slurms McKenzie and a lot of basic assumptions you had about how to play the game no longer apply. A lot of games let you be a monster that gets +2 strength and a bite attack, how many of them then ask, "OK, but what is your everyday life like because of this?" I got a thumbs up from I-am-Erk on a proposal for a mini-faction that will help onboard players with the mutation system. They'll have a couple questlines and some characters who show you how mutations might affect people's personality. They'll hook you up with some mutagen as an initiation rite if you want to join, and they have someone who will help craft it. It won't be like Rubik where everything is suddenly gated behind them, they'll just be an optional easier way to get started. I have to finish this lab map before I can get started on them, but I think they'll be a fun group. worm girl fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 03:52
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One of the few threads I always follow is Cataclysm' and worm girl your posts have been one of the reasons, a very interesting look at the workings of this game and the development of your own work. I never had much of an interest in the mutation side of CDDA until reading about your recent improvements and I started playing again with intent to lean into it much more. I don't post often and I didn't have much to say but I had to put in my 2 cents. Keep up the good work!
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Jan 22, 2024 04:11
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Hearing about a legacy code situation explained it to me far more thoroughly than anything else. Having to deal with legacy code can make you a bit nuts. I've quit a job over it.
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Jan 22, 2024 04:51
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:I didn't. I don't think I could have? It sounded like the changes being described weren't even up for a PR yet. My "infrared icon" thing was based off of a completely unrelated gameplay experience; namely, the infrared CBM. Well, now you can see why I leave the minutiae to you lol.
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Jan 22, 2024 12:34
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Hearing about a legacy code situation explained it to me far more thoroughly than anything else. Having to deal with legacy code can make you a bit nuts. I've quit a job over it. Oh mercy. THe company I work for finally has leadership that is accepting the reality of how bad the legacy code is. Shame they blew the money they got for the IPO on dodgy acquisitions instead modernizing the code. side_burned fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 23:01
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So I found a strange temple a while back. It's a clearing with a pedestal and four iron floor bars. While I could have opened it up with a hacksaw, I decided to look up the proper way to open it, then come back if I ever found the item. Well, yesterday I found the item in a mansion: a petrified eye. With the key in hand, I went back to the strange temple and opened it up. The bars disappeared, and a staircase opened up. Down we go! I'm not gonna put this entire post in spoiler tags, so if you're interested in keeping it a surprise, stop reading here. * * * * We good? Alright. The first level was an open room with four pools of water. Now, this screams trap-filled room to me. I kicked on my Terranian Sonar, but got nothing. Confused, I cautiously walked across the room, pausing every few steps. Nothing happened. I wonder if I got lucky, or if it was bugged, or what. I have no idea what this room was supposed to do. Oh well! At the end of the room was some stairs down, which I took. Next room was a bunch of tight spaces with colored walls and colored floors. The walls seemed to shift as I walked around, so navigating was confusing. I eventually figured out that walking on a floor tile of a certain color caused the walls of the same color to disappear. This made it pretty easy to cross the room, and down another flight of stairs. Third room was a narrow hallway full of fire. I have a CBM for this! I kicked on my Thermal Dissipation CBM and ran down the hallway, taking no damage. Down the stairs at the end! Fourth room was another open room. Kicked on the Terranian Sonar again, but nothing. Walked to the end, and there was a set of pillars blocking the way forward, flanked by iron bars. There were switches on the walls nearby. I flipped one, and some of the pillars retracted. However, it also apparently spawned some monsters! I sighed and drew my katana. Flipped more switches, and the pillars went up and down, spawning monsters all the time. Now, this is a pretty standard video game puzzle, but I wasn't feeling it. Fortunately, I had the foresight to bring a hacksaw. While I'm all for doing things "legit," this is a permadeath game and I wanted options in case of emergency. I sawed off the iron bars, slipped past the pillars, and down another flight of stairs. The fifth and final room is apparently the treasure room. At the end of a short hallway was a fur coat.  Curious. I grabbed the coat and turned back. I still didn't trip any traps in the water room. Weird. Once outside, I decided, hey, why not try out the coat? I activated it. I got "You're filled with euphoria!" and "Your body feels like jelly." My stamina meter went down to half. ...   Did I do all of that just to get a coat that makes you have an orgasm? I guess I know what kind of religion this temple was for, anyways...
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Jan 23, 2024 16:46
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I've never cleared the Strange Temple but that might just be a random artifact?
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Jan 23, 2024 17:07
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RabidWeasel posted:I've never cleared the Strange Temple but that might just be a random artifact? Yeah, I assume it's some kind of procedurally generated artifact.
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Jan 23, 2024 17:13
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It's cool that it came on a kinda useful clothing item, does it do anything to your stats or speed when you carry it / equip it?
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Jan 23, 2024 20:45
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Engorged Pedipalps posted:It's cool that it came on a kinda useful clothing item, does it do anything to your stats or speed when you carry it / equip it? It raised my speed a bit, but the encumbrance for wearing it largely cancels that out. Especially since it doesn't fit. Can I even let out an artifact coat?
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Jan 24, 2024 02:29
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Those temples are old, old content. The room with pools of water is supposed to flood. I don't know why it didn't. Probably just code rotting over time. The general suckiness of procedurally generated artifacts is also why they're mostly obsolete at this point.
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Jan 24, 2024 02:32
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Man I just clicked straight to the last page of this thread, I am pretty comfortable with weird roguelikes but this game sounds crazy. How's the tile mode if I'm old and lost my sense of childlike imagination and wonder & cant really handle ascii?
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Jan 24, 2024 02:33
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goferchan posted:Man I just clicked straight to the last page of this thread, I am pretty comfortable with weird roguelikes but this game sounds crazy. How's the tile mode if I'm old and lost my sense of childlike imagination and wonder & cant really handle ascii? Tiles are fine. In fact, I think they're necessary -- the amount of information you need to stay safe is immense, and tilesets can convey that information far more effectively than ASCII can. Not using tiles means you will spend a huge portion of your time laboriously inspecting things around you to determine if it's e.g. a common zombie or a hideous murder machine. I'm saying this as a Nethack player from way back in the day, too.
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Jan 24, 2024 02:55
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Yeah tiles are absolutely essential, there is way too much going on It apparently speeds the game up a lot to turn the tiles off but I can't imagine playing that way and I've got nearly twenty years of ascii dwarf fortress under my belt
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Jan 24, 2024 04:00
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As a new player(as of November) myself I can also recommend tiles. A few things still show an ascii symbol instead of full graphics, but there's so much poo poo in this game I'm not surprised the tiles don't cover literally everything. Drive-by questions while I'm here: 1)I found a doppler radar sitting in a radio tower and took it home with me. Is this actually useful for anything, ie does CDDA actually simulate weather in enough detail that you could, in theory, predict the weather with it(if you knew enough irl)? I'm impressed this game even has humidity and air pressure. (I'm already aware you can press W on the world map to see the weather on nearby map tiles) 2)Can I make electricity cross z levels? I eventually figured out how to make circuits cross doorways and windows, but z levels elude me. It'd be kinda nice to get the solar panels out of the way, if nothing else. 3)I found an automatic tractor. Its engine is busted, but if I can find a replacement it's otherwise usable. What can I expect it to actually do? In other words, how much do I have to babysit it to get it to harvest the shitload of corn growing in the fields behind this dairy farm I'm making my base in? Fall's far enough away that I figure I might as well get an idea of what to expect ahead of time. (I see it also has stuff for auto-sowing, but that's a concern for And not really a question, but I'm fascinated by whatever train of logic led to players being able to eat raw tea leaves but not pure sugar.
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Jan 24, 2024 07:48
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Haifisch posted:2)Can I make electricity cross z levels? I eventually figured out how to make circuits cross doorways and windows, but z levels elude me. It'd be kinda nice to get the solar panels out of the way, if nothing else. If you find an extension cord you can connect it to the solar panel and then connect the other end to the power grid/battery, and it should transfer across z levels. If the distance is too far you can extend extension cords with other ones to make it longer. Note that sometimes, mostly with old content, stairways don't have the same x,y coordinates so you sorta teleport when going up/down, which can throw off the cord's length. Shouldn't come up too often, though.
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Jan 24, 2024 10:41
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I also enjoy the tiles simply because there's something really satisfying about seeing the streets awash in blood after you've gone through them. Plus, with the various chibi sets the character avatars are surprisingly expressive and show off your gear and looks and mutations nicely.
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Jan 24, 2024 13:51
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I prefer MSX because it has more equipment/wielded items, but the default tileset's multi-tile trees and stuff look really good.
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Jan 24, 2024 14:26
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Haifisch posted:3)I found an automatic tractor. Its engine is busted, but if I can find a replacement it's otherwise usable. What can I expect it to actually do? In other words, how much do I have to babysit it to get it to harvest the shitload of corn growing in the fields behind this dairy farm I'm making my base in? Fall's far enough away that I figure I might as well get an idea of what to expect ahead of time. (I see it also has stuff for auto-sowing, but that's a concern for That automatic tractor can also be driven by you using a remote vehicle controller. I've never used those before, but what might be more interesting is to yank the robot controller out of the vehicle and install it in your main car, so you can drive IT remotely. Vehicle modification is extremely detailed in CDDA. You can tear apart any vehicle you see for parts, then weld/duct tape them onto other vehicles with varying degrees of success. Corn will come in mid/late summer, so you might get to try it out faster than expected.
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Jan 24, 2024 15:15
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Pigbuster posted:If you find an extension cord you can connect it to the solar panel and then connect the other end to the power grid/battery, and it should transfer across z levels. If the distance is too far you can extend extension cords with other ones to make it longer. Note that sometimes, mostly with old content, stairways don't have the same x,y coordinates so you sorta teleport when going up/down, which can throw off the cord's length. Shouldn't come up too often, though. Something else to note is that while playing around with this stuff, if you remove anything from your rig (even if it's not the connecting tile to the cord), that cord will come undone and you'll have to replug it in. I believe it comes undone at the point on the solar/battery/windmill rig, so search for the cord and plug it back in up there, then go make sure your fridges or whatever are turned back on.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:02
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Cabbage Disrespect posted:I prefer MSX because it has more equipment/wielded items, but the default tileset's multi-tile trees and stuff look really good. Why not use Chibi_Ultica ? It's the MSX sprites with Ultica's terrain.
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Jan 24, 2024 21:06
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Remote driving windowless electric cars covered in cameras used to be, and still probably is, the A+ way of traveling in cities as without line-of-sight or sound they just completely ignore you.
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Jan 24, 2024 21:15
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just to add to the tiles-are-decent tide, i used to play strictly ascii and then made the switch over (with dubious willingness) once tiles became the default. having played with them for a while now, they're absolutely the way to go
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Jan 24, 2024 21:16
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MSX is also my go-to. Couldn't imagine playing ascii at this point.Mountain Lightning posted:Something else to note is that while playing around with this stuff, if you remove anything from your rig (even if it's not the connecting tile to the cord), that cord will come undone and you'll have to replug it in. I believe it comes undone at the point on the solar/battery/windmill rig, so search for the cord and plug it back in up there, then go make sure your fridges or whatever are turned back on. Hmm, that sounds like another victim of the PR that made batteries and solar panels merge together. Doing so gives very significant CPU% reductions, so it's necessary, but it causes issues elsewhere. Something I've been meaning to look into.
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Jan 24, 2024 21:16
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Rynoto posted:Remote driving windowless electric cars covered in cameras used to be, and still probably is, the A+ way of traveling in cities as without line-of-sight or sound they just completely ignore you. You can do this while inside the car at the regular controls, too, if you use curtains on all the external windshield/window tiles. (Bonus points if you add tiny electric door motors to each curtain set so you can open/close them without having to scurry around the car.)
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Jan 24, 2024 23:04
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Thanks for the tips on tiles! Yeah I only asked because I feel like over the years every time I've seen this game brought up, it's accompanied by ASCII screenshots. Glad to hear tiles work well, I'll check it out.
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Jan 24, 2024 23:48
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Pigbuster posted:Hmm, that sounds like another victim of the PR that made batteries and solar panels merge together. Doing so gives very significant CPU% reductions, so it's necessary, but it causes issues elsewhere. Something I've been meaning to look into. I've never done a proper 'bug report' sort of thing, but if it helps: in the cases I can remember, it was an outdoor extension cable plugged into a large storage battery on a roof, with the other end plugged into a standing lamp. And it always came about when I plugged in a car battery into the rig to charge up and then disconnected the car battery. Honestly, I'm kind of glad that even in 'No Hope' mod runs, power isn't *too* big of an issue (scavenge solar arrays from roofs, and while working storage batteries are rarer you can probably find one or two easily enough). Even in 'Innawoods' runs you can get decent power going after a little while of loving around (Clay Car Batteries and Wind Turbines), which is nice for when you eventually manage to make a makeshift arc welder or vacuum sealer or something. (Similarly, in Innawoods the Anvil adjustments aren't bad. The Bronze Anvil you can make doesn't take any serious hoops to get, has 'Anvil 3' so you can make everything worth making, and my only complaint is I can't make it or a few other things in normal gameplay.) So doing experimenting with the latest-ish build, I found out that running 'No Hope' and 'Innawoods' at the same time puts in a fair amount of cabins and other small buildings (as well as the odd bigger thing, like the plane crashes and military helibases). Something to be wary of, though, is that if you're doing a Helicopter Crash start with both mods, the Military Helibase with No Hope now has turrets instead of searchlights. That run ended poorly, as you might guess.
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Jan 24, 2024 23:52
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goferchan posted:Thanks for the tips on tiles! Yeah I only asked because I feel like over the years every time I've seen this game brought up, it's accompanied by ASCII screenshots. Glad to hear tiles work well, I'll check it out. plz let us know how it goes, reading peoples CDDA experiences rules
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Jan 25, 2024 06:22
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I'm playing around with Mind Over Matter for the very first time as a pyrokinetic (and also playing as an archer for the first time, which seems fine if not bombastic so far) and while I don't doubt there is a bright future of cool psionic explosions in my future, I don't think I've ever been as hype for a spell/ability as the one that lets you make a fire source with your mind. Just reach into the fridge, grab some ground beef and broil that thing into a cheeseburger using your palm as a griddle. It's amazing how chill it makes a lot of the early game crafting business when you don't need to fuss around with fuel/wood/etc for everything. Also I got jumpscared by something called a "Star Vampire" which suddenly appeared in the headlights of my poor lovely hatchback, which killed my car so I spent a terrified night running through a forest hunted by a thing from beyond the stars and I was reminded how cool this game can be sometimes.
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