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This video only exists in German I'm afraid, but this is how it looks when a Catholic bishop (or in this case, someone who is going to be ordained bishop soon) takes an oath to stay loyal to the Federal Republic of Germany and the State of Bavaria (the dude next to him is the governor of Bavaria): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_qwfzIKwQM The 1933 Reichskonkordat between the German Reich and the Vatican stated that all bishops have to swear an oath that "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise, as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State (Land) of . . . I swear and promise to honour the legally constituted government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honour it. With dutiful concern for the welfare and the interests of the German state, in the performance of the ecclesiastical office entrusted to me, I will endeavour to prevent everything injurious which might threaten it.". Some states have since entered new treaties with the Church that forgo this clause, but afaik in most states this still applies. The State of Bavaria also has the preogative to raise "objections" against any appointee to a diocese, though I don't know whether this has any practical meaning. I wonder if the bishops of those dioceses covering several states at once have to swear the oath several times?
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Sep 18, 2016 22:03
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"I am commanded by the king to be brief, and since I am the king's obedient subject, brief I will be. I die His Majesty's good servant. But God's first."
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Sep 18, 2016 22:08
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HEY GAL posted:i think the interpretation that "the rules are there so you can gently caress them up and realize you need faith rather than rules" is wrong (and very, very protestant).  no but really, i think you've got it wrong. i have never read the thing where this phrase comes from but my personal understanding is that it is good to sin "boldly" in the sense that yes, you're going to screw up, you're human and you can't escape it, so you need to come to terms with it instead of shying away from it
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Sep 19, 2016 01:04
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Lutha Mahtin posted:
Welcome back, old friend.
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Sep 19, 2016 01:32
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Welcome back, old friend. I have missed probably most of the past year's posts itt but I meant to try and catch up at some point, because I consistently find this one of the most interesting things to read online. This is also why I stopped posting, because I felt like I was shitposting far too much and being super obnoxious  I sort-of read the past dozen pages to catch up so that I could post my lil idea here, and that is that I'm gonna just go to every cool church around the new place where I live. Not sure if this will involve trip reports or whatever but I'm going to cast a net that includes all places that are at least semi-onboard with women's and sexuality equality. So, well, sorry Ye Olde Church-havers, but this will mostly be a 16th Century And Younger affair. But if I end up writing about it I think it will be enjoyable for everyone because of visiting places that do stuff like this:  This church apparently does a thing every year where they let the kids come up and learn about how the eucharist works, pick out a vestment that they like, look at and touch the vessels, etc. 
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Sep 19, 2016 01:45
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I'm the woman sitting in the pews
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Sep 19, 2016 01:58
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Lutha Mahtin posted:I have missed probably most of the past year's posts itt but I meant to try and catch up at some point, because I consistently find this one of the most interesting things to read online. This is also why I stopped posting, because I felt like I was shitposting far too much and being super obnoxious Please, Lutha Mahtin drunken shitposting was one of the most enjoyable parts of the thread. Glad to see you back. Also, if you do decide to read back over the thread, skip pages 214-337, unless maybe you blew up a school bus and need a particularly excruciating atonement. Dark times, those were. Numerical Anxiety fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 03:24
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Numerical Anxiety posted:Also, if you do decide to read back over the thread, skip pages 214-337, unless maybe you blew up a school bus and need a particularly excruciating atonement. Dark times, those were. The terrors of the 100 Pages War were real.
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Sep 19, 2016 03:55
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good lord, it's Lutha Mahtin! welcome back! the drunken shitposting was the appeal, my dude
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Sep 19, 2016 05:19
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The Phlegmatist posted:The terrors of the 100 Pages War were real. Not caused by protestants, strangely enough. One of my FB friends posted an article about ants that made an anthill on an old Polish bunker, and the hatch is rusting, and some ants fall into the darkness where they continue to work till they keel over and die. She takes the philosophical view of it as it sometimes happens to humans and they start rationalizing something about higher power when in fact poo poo just happens. I didn't read what she wrote since I'm drat sure my faith troubles come from OCD and that bastard loves fuel like Jastiger loved explanatory power. I dunno where I was going with this! Hooray for the thread! I hope I'll remember to play for Hey Gal not to shoot her paramour while firing pistols through windows and for Tias cousin who's acting out a Guy Richie movie in real life. One thing I came to understand is that there's a poo poo ton more to Catholic life than just going to Church three times a year and believing in God. Like, "rich prayer life" is still something I don't get. But I'm at least trying to recite this in what passes in my morning prayer. And hey, with Francis de Sales being my baptism/confirmation/whatever saint, maybe I should ask him to put a good word in with God so I would have more willpower for shitposting.
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Sep 19, 2016 08:10
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JcDent posted:Not caused by protestants, strangely enough. If you take anything from St. Francis De Sales, let it be Salesian Optimism. I believe the only higher teaching is the literal Gospel.
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Sep 19, 2016 08:14
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JcDent posted:And hey, with Francis de Sales being my baptism/confirmation/whatever saint, maybe I should ask him to put a good word in with God so I would have more willpower for shitposting.  Meet Isidor of Sevilla, patron saint of the internet and, by extension, also of shitposting
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Sep 19, 2016 08:15
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Well, De Sales is covering journalism, and I trained as one, I'm reviewing video games...Thirteen Orphans posted:If you take anything from St. Francis De Sales, let it be Salesian Optimism. I believe the only higher teaching is the literal Gospel. Will try to read up on it!
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Sep 19, 2016 08:37
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I'm also a huge proponent of Salesian Gentleness, but that's partly a personality thing.
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Sep 19, 2016 08:49
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Today I read a, possibly apocryphal, tale about Jesus being down with native healers. Story goes, Jesus and the disciples come to a foreign land, and they see people who are not christians healing others, apparently out of nowhere. The disciples steam to Jesus, asking how they can do those things if not through God, and Jesus answers "those who are not against us, are with us". True or false? If so, which book? The tale comes from The Wind is my Mother, from Bear Heart.
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Sep 19, 2016 09:02
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Tias posted:Today I read a, possibly apocryphal, tale about Jesus being down with native healers. It's in two of the Gospels afaik: Luke 9 posted:49“Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” Mark 9 posted:38John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone else driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” They're not anywhere abroad though, except for the flight to Egypt Jesus never really left the Galilee/Judea area as far as the Bible is concerned e: and obviously the other exorcist is driving out demons in the name of Jesus too System Metternich fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 09:40
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System Metternich posted:It's in two of the Gospels afaik: Cool, thanks!
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Sep 19, 2016 10:41
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JcDent posted:One thing I came to understand is that there's a poo poo ton more to Catholic life than just going to Church three times a year and believing in God.
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Sep 19, 2016 11:30
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Day after my third child was born I find out my grandmother has untreatable cancer and a few weeks at most. Prayers for everyone coming in and going out are appreciated.
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Sep 19, 2016 13:03
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P-Mack posted:Day after my third child was born I find out my grandmother has untreatable cancer and a few weeks at most. Can do. If someone wants to throw in some for my cousin, that would still be appreciated.
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Sep 19, 2016 13:13
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Tias posted:Can do. If someone wants to throw in some for my cousin, that would still be appreciated.
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Sep 19, 2016 13:21
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On that note, is there an official Catholic prayer for praying for an online acquaintance? I know God is omniscient, but I always feel awkward during those quiet moments where I am like "Please look after BootyLord69, they are having a really tough time".
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Sep 19, 2016 14:12
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Hey, Lutha Mahtin. Just wondered the other day why you still posted about bitcoins, but neglected this thread . Welcome back!
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Sep 19, 2016 15:10
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I've caught up on like... the last forty pages or so of this thread because of HEY GAL mentioning this thread in the Milhist one, so I figured it had to be good. And lo and behold, it was! Very interesting stuff, even though I'm personally not Christian. Speaking of, I actually live in one of the Catholic areas of the US (Louisiana) and occasionally discuss church stuff with my family, good ole Cajuns. But I was raised Protestant, went to a Fundamentalist Protestant school, that sorta thing. It turns out that my parents were born Papists but later just went to Evangelical Protestantism. When I asked why, apparently they had a laundry list of complaints, like "worshiping Mary" and such. That didn't even seem right at the time, when I knew relatively little about Catholicism/non-Protestant Christianity, of course. Since that conversation like half a year ago, I've learned a lotta stuff about Catholicism and Orthodoxy that's just sorta cemented the thought that I would probably convert to Catholicism if I was still inclined to Christianity. But y'all seem to talk to that sorta Protestant a lot, so next time that that topic comes up, do y'all have anything that I should read/anything I should say to learn more/dis-spell that line of thought?
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Sep 19, 2016 17:24
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We don't worship Mary, we venerate her, that's a difference! In theological terms this means that she is afforded "only" hyperdulia ("high veneration") while latria ("adoration" or "worship") is reserved for the triune God as well as the Eucharist. Normal boring saints only get dulia. So tell your folks next time that we don't worship mary, we just venerate her as the "Queen of Heaven", the "Throne of Wisdom", "She Who Shows the Way" and the "Cause of our Salvation" and put her above all other saints, I'm sure that'll put them right off this silly notion  e: there's a song that's traditionally sung around here on Ascension of Mary that goes "O great sign: her gown is the sun, her shoe is the moon, twelve stars her crown" which really doesn't sound like what a monotheistic religion should theoretically sing. I absolutely love it, of course 
System Metternich fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 17:43
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more casualties of bad catholic education as children, i bet they were easy pickings for evangelization by protestants
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Sep 19, 2016 17:45
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HEY GAL posted:more casualties of bad catholic education as children, i bet they were easy pickings for evangelization by protestants I think this is how it went, yeah. If they're anything like me, which I imagine they are, they just likely accepted what they heard at Mass without really questioning further. Then when they heard some Evangelical saying things about sola scriptora or Mary-worship or what have you, they realized they didn't understand what they were hearing and went "Yeah, this is dumb." I mean, that's kinda how I ended up leaving the church, and I only started to try and understand things later on when I got a notion of critical thinking from talking/debates with religious friends later on in life. Man, with this thread especially, I read more Scripture and stuff about church history than I did when I was involved with it! Going to an Evangelical Protestant school was odd. Thank y'all again for the fascinating read, though.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:57
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RubricMarine posted:I mean, that's kinda how I ended up leaving the church, and I only started to try and understand things later on when I got a notion of critical thinking from talking/debates with religious friends later on in life. or from test-driving Orthodoxy? 
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 18:05
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HEY GAL posted:more casualties of bad catholic education as children, i bet they were easy pickings for evangelization by protestants i've always thought that we should revamp youth catechesis and center it on the really awesome stuff from the Golden Legend and other crazy medieval hagiographies. as someone else in this thread has said before, if st. margaret getting swallowed by satan in the form of a dragon and then using her pectoral cross to burn his stomach and make him vomit her up is wrong, then i don't wanna be right. on a more serious note, though, there was definitely a weird dilution of the distinctly catholic stuff in catholic education in the second half of this century, and in particular a dilution of the doctrine of the Real Presence. if you really believe that God is sitting there physically in the church as the Blessed Sacrament then i find it difficult to believe that you'd ever be able to go to any other christian denomination except maybe orthodoxy or anglo-catholicism. none of the others is fleshy enough.
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Sep 19, 2016 18:05
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knowing what our churches believe at all should be at least a basic step though, like if RubricMarine's relatives had been told we don't worship mary then they would have had ammunition against that
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Sep 19, 2016 18:11
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System Metternich posted:e: there's a song that's traditionally sung around here on Ascension of Mary that goes "O great sign: her gown is the sun, her shoe is the moon, twelve stars her crown" which really doesn't sound like what a monotheistic religion should theoretically sing. I absolutely love it, of course That sounds like it's directly out of Revelation, the trippy sci-fi part with the baby being born on the Moon. Is it the standard interpretation that that's referring to Mary?
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Sep 19, 2016 18:26
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Powered Descent posted:That sounds like it's directly out of Revelation, the trippy sci-fi part with the baby being born on the Moon. Is it the standard interpretation that that's referring to Mary?
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Sep 19, 2016 18:29
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Bel_Canto posted:i've always thought that we should revamp youth catechesis and center it on the really awesome stuff from the Golden Legend and other crazy medieval hagiographies. as someone else in this thread has said before, if st. margaret getting swallowed by satan in the form of a dragon and then using her pectoral cross to burn his stomach and make him vomit her up is wrong, then i don't wanna be right. 
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Sep 19, 2016 18:57
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Bel_Canto posted:i've always thought that we should revamp youth catechesis and center it on the really awesome stuff from the Golden Legend and other crazy medieval hagiographies. as someone else in this thread has said before, if st. margaret getting swallowed by satan in the form of a dragon and then using her pectoral cross to burn his stomach and make him vomit her up is wrong, then i don't wanna be right. You liturgicals are weird.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:22
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HEY GAL posted:anything preventing you from coming back? I test drove an Orthodoxy, had a weird incense-y smell instead of the standard "new car" odor. Enjoyable driving experience, decent gas mileage, but way more shiny gadgets and bells and whistles than I'm used to. Seems like the design hasn't really changed in a long time, for better or worse. edit: also something about how the Spirit has plenty of legroom to sit behind the Father, but won't fit behind the Son. And for some reason I only could get talk radio instead of top 40. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 19:44
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Cythereal posted:You liturgicals are weird. no ur weird
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Sep 19, 2016 19:46
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Keromaru5 posted:That's almost exactly how that priest played by Liam Neeson made Catholicism appealing to Bart Simpson: This reminds me of a scene in Mishima: a life in four chapters. Except I'm sure Bart didn't end up masturbating to the image of Saint Sebastian
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Sep 19, 2016 22:00
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Pellisworth posted:And for some reason I only could get talk radio instead of top 40.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:01
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Bel_Canto posted:i've always thought that we should revamp youth catechesis and center it on the really awesome stuff from the Golden Legend and other crazy medieval hagiographies. as someone else in this thread has said before, if st. margaret getting swallowed by satan in the form of a dragon and then using her pectoral cross to burn his stomach and make him vomit her up is wrong, then i don't wanna be right. In total agreement here. "He blasphemed the Virgin Mary, and his mouth was turned into a rectum." - The Golden Legend
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Sep 19, 2016 22:30
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Worthleast posted:In total agreement here. sounds legit to me
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Sep 20, 2016 00:24
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