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I absolutely agree with your assessment, which is why I think that Khorne/Tzeentch vs Nurgle/Slaanesh would probably be the best combination. PAX stories! My buddy and I (who have played a lot of Chaos) convinced his sister and my other friend to sit down to their first game. I taught them and had a great game losing to a first time Tzeentch winning by ticking. Immediately after, three people were setting up their own game. My friend was considering teaching them and playing, but his sister didn't want to hang around for a few hours, so I volunteered to teach them all and play again. I had another great game losing. I had three Upgraded Seductresses in a region with a single Bloodletter. He killed them all.
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Sep 2, 2013 18:02
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So what does the thread think of post-expansion Khorne? good at ticking and at VPs but still balanced? Or just plain overpowered?
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Sep 3, 2013 01:41
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To me he seems like he has more options; if the beginning of the game he has bad luck rolling and killing things, it's much easier to switch gears and have a reasonable chance of getting a VP victory over a ticking victory. Still though, he seems to be limited to at least a little luck and a little lack in other players' attention on what he's doing. EDIT: That being said I still think he's the best god to give to new players, and if playing with mostly new players he tends to dominate since the others are unaware of how to avoid him well.
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Sep 3, 2013 02:09
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Expansion Khorne's Bloodletter upgrade is severely overpowered. About as overpowered as Provender of Ruin.
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Sep 3, 2013 04:05
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Provender of Ruin is overpowered in that it is a must-have over any other Nurgle upgrade. But the effect on the game is that it lets Nurgle win an appropriate amount - about a quarter of the time, or close enough. (I think. I'm no expert.) Is Khorne's bloodletter upgrade OP in the same way? In that you'll never choose anything else? Or is it OP in that it lets Khorne win an inordinate number of games? The first I can live with, but the second I can't. Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 05:07
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Jimbozig posted:Provender of Ruin is overpowered in that it is a must-have over any other Nurgle upgrade. But the effect on the game is that it lets Nurgle win an appropriate amount - about a quarter of the time, or close enough. (I think. I'm no expert.) Neither, in my experience. Bloodletter upgrade does nothing if you're trying to dial victory, which is at least half if not more of all Khorne wins I've seen. Depending on how the game is going, when I get my first upgrade, I'll pick Vengeance and go for dial instead. I've also seen Crimson Tide be successful and win games.
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Sep 3, 2013 10:59
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Does anyone ever find themselves picking one/both of the extra power upgrades?
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Sep 3, 2013 11:05
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Jimbozig posted:Provender of Ruin is overpowered in that it is a must-have over any other Nurgle upgrade. But the effect on the game is that it lets Nurgle win an appropriate amount - about a quarter of the time, or close enough. (I think. I'm no expert.) quote:Is Khorne's bloodletter upgrade OP in the same way? In that you'll never choose anything else? Or is it OP in that it lets Khorne win an inordinate number of games? The first I can live with, but the second I can't. I have never seen Khorne lose after taking Bloodletters. In fact, I played with one Khorne who actively decided to take other upgrades because Bloodletter upgrade-fueled victories feel hollow to him. nimby posted:Does anyone ever find themselves picking one/both of the extra power upgrades?
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Sep 3, 2013 17:52
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Some Numbers posted:Both. My first expansion game, our Khorne rolled about 2 hits in the first two rounds combined. He finally managed to get his upgrade at the end of round 3, grabbed the Bloodletter upgrade and proceeded to first tie and then pace Nurgle in VP. I will absolutely agree with this. We had a game where every god but Khorne was focusing on putting down corruption, dominating regions, and ruining regions ASAP. Khorne won by victory points (58 points or so while Slaanesh hit 50 exactly and everyone else was in the 40s) despite never dominating a region and only getting participation points for 1-2 regions being ruined. It's bonkers because you get doubly rewarded for doing what you should already be doing - killing as many dudes as possible wherever possible.
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Sep 4, 2013 05:20
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I've only played the base game, and even then probably only a few times. Even so, after the first game, it felt like at least two players tried to actively contain Khorne every time. Maybe the Bloodletters upgrade was designed with that particular tactic in mind? I mean in some ways I feel like the entire reason Khorne plays the way it does (other than flavor reasons) is because it breaks up an otherwise cautious game with constant assault. If you let Khorne out too much you're screwed anyway. Or am I missing something?
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Sep 4, 2013 07:11
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nimby posted:Does anyone ever find themselves picking one/both of the extra power upgrades? As Slaanesh, it can be nice to have the extra three points that come from both power upgrades, if you find yourself getting tabled by khorne and needing to replace units every turn. Then again, you probably should always take the cultist upgrade first. As Tzneetch, I find that the power can help you tear through your chaos cards even faster, which helps you take advantage of your draw up to five special ability. Then again, I suck at tzneetch, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
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Sep 4, 2013 08:07
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Just had a great game that everyone except Khorne really enjoyed. What would people think of pulling Electors Demand Peace from the Old World deck? It sat on the track the whole game and left Khorne quite frustrated in the key regions. Also, what do you guys see as the must-have upgrades to beeline for? I'm in agreement with the above that the power upgrades for Tzeentch and Slaanesh are quite good.
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Sep 6, 2013 04:13
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I have only seen Electors...twice? Only like ten plays logged, so that's my disclaimer. Don't even remember first time well, second time it happened late enough to annoy Khorne but not really stop him. Empire was nearly ruined anyhow. I got to thinking about it after that second time though. Just gonna toss out some undercooked thoughts. Seems to me that when Electors happens, if the other three gods swarm the peaceful zones, it frustrates Khorne's dialing, but if this happens early enough Khorne may be able to shrug and set up some VP for himself and try a VP win while the other three are huddled scared. They'll be sharing two regions (admittedly including the Empire, a juicy plum) amongst three players while Khorne can prep himself to receive some dominations and top ruiner in other valuable areas. Or, with an early Electors, the bumrush of the peace zones will cause very fast ruination, and then the hunt resumes on what is now effectively a smaller board. They'll get a few VPs but Khorne can cope with that. A very early Electors could even cause ruinations before Nurgle gets Provender - I might almost be inclined to call that a positive for Khorne! A late Electors is maybe worse for Khorne??? The idea being that the other gods have established themselves for VPs and the amount available from the peace zones is now enough to put them over the top, and there is certainly no time for Khorne to try VP. In which case...hope you can use Field of Carnage to lock down units in unsafe areas, or Battle Cry to nullify the safe zones, or something. Not sure what to say about that situation.
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Sep 10, 2013 00:40
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Is it possible to use Horned Rat in a 4-player game? We are 4-5 people when playing and have always just played without the Rat when we are 4 but it would be nice to have him as an option if possible. I imagine he has to replace either Tzeentch or Slaanesh.
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Nov 12, 2013 23:51
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I've always stuck to no-rat when there's only 4 of us as well, why not just give us a shot and tell us how it goes? To me, I would think replacing Slaanesh would be the best way without unbalancing the basic mechanics of corruption, but I'm a primarily Tzeentch player, so may be a bit biased.
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Nov 13, 2013 05:31
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I was close to selling CitOW because I couldn't get it to the table despite many people in our group liked it. The problem was that certain friends either hated the dice or considered the game too swingy in general. Thankfully, almost everyone in our regural group gave the game a second chance and fell in love with it. There's not enough games that combine interesting mechanics with strong asymmetry and beautiful components that ooze theme. While there is certainly a chance that either the dice or the Old World deck can ruin (no pun intended) even the soundest strategy, almost all of our games have been really close so that no chaos god has won with a a fair margin. Maybe the best way to approach the game for other gods than Khorne is to think of it as not an area control game but rather a combination of push your luck and risk mitigation mechanics: How many cultists should you summon to make certain you get that dial advancement token? Which cards make it impossible or harder for Khorne to attack you? What incentives can your cards and troops create so that attacking you is disadvantageous and costly for Khorne? Although the spergy people at BGG have hated the Morslieb chaos and upgrade cards, our group has actually enjoyed them more. Thus far no strategy nor god has seemed overpowered, and it seems every player has more options at his or her disposal. For me, the vanilla decks are fun but force you more on pre-determined tracks. On the other hand, we haven't played the regular version that much, so it might be just a matter of getting used to something. The reason I'm necromancing this thread is that we'll be ravaging the Old World today - hopefully with five players. I think we've got to play with the rat only once, so this should be a different experience again. By the way, I have one rules question: both Slaanesh and Nurgle have a chaos card in the expansion that either gives them power or victory points for opponents summoning troops into certain region. My question is, if another card moves troops into the region mentioned, the gods considered probably won't get any benefits since move is different than summon?
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Jan 8, 2014 10:37
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Move = summon = place = any other similar word.
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Jan 8, 2014 10:53
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Yeah, there's no mechanic for moving your troops between regions except for summoning them from another place on the board.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:55
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Can we talk about Khorne VP wins? Base game only! Have you done it? Have you had it done to you? If so, how did it happen? I had a match recently as Khorne. My Chaos card draws opening hand and second turn left me with 3 Skull Thrones and I think I got the 4th one soon after. The very first Old World card put some very annoying heroes in the center of the board and Electors Sue For Peace hit in the last two rounds to Nurgle's cackling delight. The game went very badly for me - as I sought a dial win. Reflecting, I wonder if I should have attempted the elusive Khorne VP win? My final VP total was literally half of Nurgle's - but I had not been trying, of course. Theorycrafting how to do it: if your opening hand has 2x or more Skull Thrones, maybe summon Bloodthirster to Empire? Bloodthirster + Skull Throne + a cultist dominates Empire for 5 power, with 2 power left over to try and drop a Bloodletter on somebody close for a dial marker. Further turns you just keep re-Skull Throning the Empire while seasoning with cultists to build up a corruption bank and spreading Bloodletters here and there for some dial action. Other gods avoid the Empire because Bloodthirster, you ruin it alone after 4 or 5 turns of milking and I would estimate your VP total is in the mid to high 30s (including some benefits of VP found on the dial). Problem though: so then what? You've got a fat chunk of points from getting the Empire all to yourself but the other gods have been largely corrupting and dial-moving at liberty. How does Khorne seal the VP deal for an actual win?
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Jan 18, 2014 18:00
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Bloodthirster in the Empire has become my group's standard opening anyway, because anything else opens you up to Tzeentch Teleporting you to Norsca and voiding your first turn. I've had a number of games in which Khorne has gotten up into the 40s. Breaking 50 is pretty hard, but I'm sure it's possible. I feel like the Bloodthirster Upgrade would be pretty crucial to this plan. One note is that on turn one with a Skull Throne, you have to play a Bloodletter as well, since Skull Throne makes your Cultists worthless as far as Domination. Once you have a foothold in the Empire, I would start spreading out to Bretonnia and the other regions and playing a more typical Khrone game. Beat them up, get your ticks, dominate some other regions, drop some corruption. Ride on the coattails of some ruinations. Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 18:17
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Some Numbers posted:One note is that on turn one with a Skull Throne, you have to play a Bloodletter as well, since Skull Throne makes your Cultists worthless as far as Domination. Son of a bitch I forgot that. Guess I wouldn't be ticking first turn barring Blood Frenzy or baiting someone into the Empire somehow...
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Jan 18, 2014 19:07
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Why does he even get points from his wheel? Some friends and I were playing the other day, and we were wondering that. It seems like there must be a better placeholder spot than literally useless vps. Although nurgles remove one corruption is pretty awful as well. Somehow I always forget about those "rewards" and I am disappointed anew every time.
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Jan 18, 2014 19:10
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VP Khorne is very viable and getting more VP on his dial than anyone else helps contribute to that. Nurgle removing corruption helps him maintain first place in regions and decide when a region ruins.
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Jan 18, 2014 19:20
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My friends and I are going to sit down and play this later tonight. We all know the rules already, but any general tips/feedback would be much appreciated. What are people's thoughts on Khorne's Bloodletter upgrade in the expansion? I saw some talk of it above, is it generally accepted that it's too strong and shouldn't be used? Edit: I should have mentioned, we're playing with the expansion because we have five playing. What makes the expansion less fun? If it's the new chaos cards/upgrades it comes with, is the game still fun with the Horned Rat but with the original four using their base-game decks? Tenebrous Tourist fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 20:08
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Tips and feedback would depend on which version you're playing. It sounds like expansion? My first tip would be "try the base game." I think the expansion bites and I am not alone; but many other people disagree. Thus I would just say be sure to play more Chaos and try both kinds!
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Jan 18, 2014 20:16
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I was thinking about it and I think Khorne could fairly easily control the Empire all to himself and ruin it in four turns, or five. I went through specific steps in my head and reasoned he could get all the way to 43 VP doing this (dominate for 5 x 4 times = 20, ruin it as top ruiner with participation bonus = 15, assume 8 points from getting his dial moved four times in the interim)! Still not sure how to get the last 7 though, or what the other gods would do to mess it all up for him. My plan kind of assumed his cultists being mostly busy in the Empire instead of laying groundwork for more ruinations elsewhere.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:59
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Having the Empire ruin later than another region will increase the first place points, Nobles in the Empire will ratchet up the point total there and getting second place somewhere else is usually good for about 3-4 points.
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Jan 19, 2014 19:06
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Sorry to bump an old thread, but would anyone be up for trying a PBEM/PBF for this game? I've never done one of those before and I'm also pretty new at this game, but I think it could be a good time anyway. It looks like Vassal has a module for playing it, does anyone have any experience with that? Also, strategy question: the last few times my friends and I have played this, Slaanesh has completely run away with the win (different players each time). He won by dial clicks both times but ended the game with nearly 50 VPs too, which suggests that he could have won that way too if he had tried. What should other players do to slow him down? It seems like the other players have limited potential to mess with him since his cultists get so tough to kill and he ends up with so much power. Should the others be cramming cultists in his regions to ruin it so he loses out on noble tokens or something?
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Apr 28, 2014 17:21
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Jimmeeee posted:Sorry to bump an old thread, but would anyone be up for trying a PBEM/PBF for this game? I've never done one of those before and I'm also pretty new at this game, but I think it could be a good time anyway. It looks like Vassal has a module for playing it, does anyone have any experience with that? I've played the VASSAL module and it works pretty well, though it can be hard to read sometimes and the Old World cards have no text. I got the text for them from someone else though, so that's not a problem. quote:Also, strategy question: the last few times my friends and I have played this, Slaanesh has completely run away with the win (different players each time). He won by dial clicks both times but ended the game with nearly 50 VPs too, which suggests that he could have won that way too if he had tried. What should other players do to slow him down? It seems like the other players have limited potential to mess with him since his cultists get so tough to kill and he ends up with so much power. Should the others be cramming cultists in his regions to ruin it so he loses out on noble tokens or something? This is everyone's fault. Khorne wasn't beating up on him enough, Tzeentch wasn't messing with him enough and Nurgle wasn't helping Khorne once Slaanesh became the real threat. Slaanesh has the shortest dial. Because he doesn't have to double tick at all, if he does double tick, he has a real shot of winning the game despite opposition. Khorne needs to push him around and bully him out of spots with Nobles. If Slaanesh is getting first place in ruinations, Tzeentch and Nurgle need to swarm their Cultists into the same spots and take first place away from him.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:30
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Some Numbers posted:Khorne wasn't beating up on [Slaanesh] enough  I could imagine playing some PBF Chaos.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:33
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Great! All we need is a fourth (an maybe a fifth, if there's interest). Should we start a Game Room thread for it? And do people prefer Vassal or doing it by hand?
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Apr 28, 2014 19:30
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Doesn't the VASSAL module not include the expansion?
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Apr 29, 2014 15:56
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I know this game is excellent because I've seen people say "X is winning every single game; how can he be stopped?" with regard to each one of the four gods at some point! Just in this thread and the general boardgames thread here on SA, even.* Personally I believe that Khorne should devote a lot of attention to Slanneshs in the first two game rounds before the cultist defense upgrade enters play; after that, Slaneesh is too much effort so it's up to Nurgle and Tzeentch to drain the cultist's defenses, force discard of Slaneash's Chaos cards, and otherwise gently caress with him. Because as said, if that purple bastard double ticks even one single time he is a massive dial threat. *Nurgle solidly leads my personal play group's record of wins, by the by.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:14
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SuperKlaus posted:I know this game is excellent because I've seen people say "X is winning every single game; how can he be stopped?" with regard to each one of the four gods at some point! Just in this thread and the general boardgames thread here on SA, even.* This reminds me: when you all play this game, do you all communicate with other players about how to tear each other down and prevent each other from winning? For example, in the above Slaanesh-is-dominating situation, would Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch talk to figure out how to slow him down? Or do you play more free-for-all and hope that the strategy works out?
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Apr 29, 2014 17:35
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Jimmeeee posted:This reminds me: when you all play this game, do you all communicate with other players about how to tear each other down and prevent each other from winning? For example, in the above Slaanesh-is-dominating situation, would Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch talk to figure out how to slow him down? Or do you play more free-for-all and hope that the strategy works out? I always give as-unbiased-as-possible advice to the other players. I usually leave out how they should be interfering with me, but I will totally say "Uh, Tzeentch has double-ticked twice. We need to stop him from doing that again. He is going to DESTROY us."
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Apr 29, 2014 18:05
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Yeah exactly what Some Numbers said. Never lie, give sound advice, just don't tell them how to stop you (though I will give advice that harms me to a newbie for sake of better learning). It's particularly delightful for bonus theme points when playing as Tzeentch and they know you're working an angle and trying to get them to do work for you, but they also know you're right and it has to be done!
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Apr 29, 2014 21:49
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Tomorrow is a bank holiday for me, so I'll dick around with the Vassal module for a bit. If we have any leftovers from Jimmeeee's game I'll run another one. Only 4 players, sadly, because I have no access or experience with the expansion. I think I have everything I need for it (Old World Cards, basically), but if anyone has any assets (mini pictures or good quality tokens, etc...) to make the game better, it will be appreciated. IIRC, the map in Vassal is too small to fit everything confortably, for example. EDIT: What do you think of the map on BGG? It's kinda ugly, but it seems much cleaner than the original.
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Apr 30, 2014 10:58
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Fat Samurai posted:Tomorrow is a bank holiday for me, so I'll dick around with the Vassal module for a bit. If we have any leftovers from Jimmeeee's game I'll run another one. Only 4 players, sadly, because I have no access or experience with the expansion. We still have room in my game, I just made a thread in the Game Room for it. Here's a link: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3629914 Let me know if you have suggestions for resources besides the stuff that's already in there! I was thinking of using that map too. It honestly may be better than the map that actually comes with the game, just because it looks like you can actually fit things in Kislev and Troll Country. It's also nice being able to see the length of everyone's threat dial (and exactly how far along they are) at all times. Tenebrous Tourist fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 11:16
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If blue plays Changer of Ways to a region, and purple then attempts to play Degenerate Royalty, is purple's card free? A 2011 BGG thread on the topic was inconclusive as fans reasonably saw arguments both ways. One - the cost is paid prior to the card's placement, so it is free. Two - Changer blanks text, text is what makes Royalty free, and to get Royalty's discount you're selecting a region first and selecting one where Changer is there and telling you your text is blank. What are goon thoughts? Has a developer or some authority spoken up since then? I kind of agree with the "free" crowd though it is against how Changer "should" work.
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Jun 28, 2014 20:28
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I would be inclined to think the card does not hit the board until after you've paid for it, which would imply that you finish casting it for free and then it becomes blank.
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Jun 29, 2014 00:25
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