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Worm Spoiler Policy: Events from the current and previous arcs of Worm will be spoiled, but events prior to that will be left unspoiled so that this thread doesn't become Worm: Declassified Web serials are an interesting reawakening of an old form of publishing that I've not seen much mention of around here. Web serials harken back to when authors would write chapters to be published one at a time, giving their readers a story piecemeal with far more timely updates than publishing a whole book. There are a variety of good web serials around, but they don't usually get much attention so they are sometimes hard to find. I'm going to start off this discussion by introducing my personal favorite web serial: Worm. Worm is a modern superhuman story set in a world that weaves together realistic characters and a novel system behind powers into an increasingly compelling narrative. The author is brutal to his characters and he follows events through to their logical conclusions. The simplest of powers are terrifying in the right hands and even the greatest of heroes have human faults in the end. Two years in and 24 story arcs later the author has not missed a single update and has instead consistently published bonus chapters on most weeks. The author has written over a hundred unpublished short stories set in the setting before starting on Worm, meaning that each character has a deep history and that the world is consistent enough that an offhand remark may turn out to be vitally important several arcs later. The story is nearing its completion and will be finished at around the end of the year, when the author will see to getting the work edited and published. Here is a short summary provided by the author. quote:Taylor is cruelly bullied at school, ignored or tormented by her peers, and unassisted by the school's staff. At the end of her rope, she holds on to one thing - her recently gained superpowers and her dream of joining the ranks of Brockton Bay's superheroes. Cytokinesis fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Jun 15, 2013 02:58
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The revival of the serial story is kind of fascinating. I'm kind of surprised that it's taken as long as it has, given that the web has been ripe for this type of distribution for several years now. I guess that would explain why it's A Thing this year, as publishers have figured out that the internet is perfect for this kind of thing. We saw Kindle Serials start up late last year, and sci-fi author John Scalzi came up with the idea of writing The Human Division with his publisher at around the same time. It'll be interesting to see whether serials survive reintroduction or if it's an experiment that will eventually peter out.
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Jun 15, 2013 03:31
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I think it's less to do with the technology and more to do with peoples' preparedness to buy serials - Stephen King wrote The Plant years ago, but people wouldn't buy. There's also been a ton more experimentation with authors trying to make money from the internet, things like Greg Stolze's ransom model (author sets a donation target, donations are open for a month or so, once it hits the target the book's free to download forever) and KS. Perhaps also the prominence of long storylines in TV shows lately - people are used to waiting for the next episode.
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Jun 16, 2013 12:43
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Cytokinesis posted:I'm going to start off this discussion by introducing my personal favorite web serial: Worm. I'm rather liking this one so far. It's a definite cut above the majority of published YA fiction. It could do with some editing for typos though. Quite enjoy how he's able to explore themes and use language which would never get past a big name publisher.
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Jun 18, 2013 07:15
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papa horny michael posted:I'm rather liking this one so far. It's a definite cut above the majority of published YA fiction. It could do with some editing for typos though. Quite enjoy how he's able to explore themes and use language which would never get past a big name publisher. The later chapters are better edited as his readers start chipping in. Still, the serial is pretty drat amazing considering it doesn't have an editor and the sheer quantity he produces each week. He writes up to 10,000 words a chapter two to three times a week, which is an insane pace. Depending on how far you've gotten you probably haven't seen how far the author is willing to go. The author does not hold back when it comes to exploring adult themes and situations. The story is about a teenager, but it doesn't feel at all like a piece of YA fiction. It helps a lot with the realism of the setting; there are people who do horrible things and the author shows it clearly when it makes sense for them to do so. The best part of the story is that he wrote over a dozens of (unreleased) short stories in the setting before starting in on this one. Almost every character he introduces was a main character at one point or another. He's got them all figured out in his head and it really shows. I've read very few books that make characters with as realistic motivations and reactions as the ones he produces.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:19
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Strongly seconded. Sturgeon's law applies to web serials, in spades - most of them are terrible, and a very few are good. Worm is remarkably good. It starts out looking like a YA exploration of bullying in high school, with superpowers being a straightforward and unoriginal metaphor. This is wildly misleading. Like the best of any genre fiction, it takes the generic conventions... and then takes them seriously. What would it mean to live in a world where some people routinely laugh at the laws of physics, where unique powers mean every military or law enforcement action can quite plausibly run into an Outside Context Problem? Where there's no way to sort out who will trigger into superpowers before they do, and where there are existential threats requiring every available cape? So much fiction in this genre takes a world exactly like our own, but with superpowers. This author recognizes that a world which had superpowers in it... could never be a world exactly like our own. The story is grim, the story is dark, and yet there are occasional flickers of heroism, all the brighter for the contrast. The YA intro is an artifact of the unreliable viewpoint of the protagonist - a teenager who, often enough, thinks as teenagers tend to do. Or fails to think, also as teenagers tend to do. Strongly recommended.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:25
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Thanks for starting this and linking Worm, I'm reading it now and it's great.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:12
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I have been following Worm for some time now; it's one of the better things I've ever read in any genre. The first time I saw it I basically marathoned through the archives overnight forgoing sleep; I didn't really regret that. It's got really interesting plotting and writing, with strong characters and a great setting and background detail. For another Web Serial, I strongly recommend Ra, by Sam Hughes. It is a great story with strongly written characters and one of the most interesting and intriguing settings I have read. The author's own summary, which doesn't really do justice to it, is as follows: Ra posted:Magic is real. His other fiction on his website includes a number of shorter pieces, and the enormously long Fine Structure; These are all tremendously variable in quality, with Fine Structure in particular having some really amazingly well-written and interesting parts as well as some really poor sections. But Ra is uniformly excellent in every section so far, so I recommend checking that out. The only major qualification I have against recommending Ra is that it is published both irregularly and infrequently, even by the standards of web fiction (most of which is nowhere near as regular and consistent as Worm). Edit to avoid double-posting: The most recent section of Worm, Interlude 24, just got posted. It is really, really incredibly awesome, and I am glad Wildbow didn't leave the situation in suspense until Tuesday as I was worried would occur Great Gray Shrike fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 21:25
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Yeah, there's a pretty reliable quota of WTF in Worm - at least once a week, sometimes more often, something happens that leaves you thinking 'So how, exactly, do things get worse from here?' and at least once an arc something happens that fundamentally changes your understanding of the Wormverse. Still, the last time an Interlude carried that much main-plot advancement, rather than showing a new perspective... Regent's interlude? Never? There were a number of things I thought were possible, in this fictional universe - what came up tonight wasn't one of them. Which makes me think that there's something I'm missing about the implications, something that ties it more closely to the two-year precog out there. Ra's pretty strong. Wish it updated regularly. Worm's an outlier on quality, but there's literally nothing like it for regularity.
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Jun 22, 2013 08:35
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I can't stop reading Worm and I totally blame this thread for the lack of sleep.  I'm going to be so sad when I catch up. 
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Jul 2, 2013 01:51
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hollylolly posted:I can't stop reading Worm and I totally blame this thread for the lack of sleep. This is me, and I just caught up a couple of days ago. Friday and Monday nights are now the best nights.
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Jul 8, 2013 10:04
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Skellen posted:This is me, and I just caught up a couple of days ago. Friday and Monday nights are now the best nights. Wednesday nights are also fun most weeks. He frequently does a bonus chapter for Thursdays.
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Jul 8, 2013 14:06
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Skellen posted:This is me, and I just caught up a couple of days ago. Friday and Monday nights are now the best nights. Yep, the newest update was the first one I had to wait for.  Being able to pick up the equivalent of a 10-15 book series and just read it through in one go is like heaven to me.
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Jul 8, 2013 23:11
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There's quite a vigorous post-update analysis community out there, scattered across various websites and IRC channels, and loosely centered on the site's own comments. Any insights so far? Current expectation is probably an update this Thursday, so less waiting... this week, anyway. ETA: and it was a doozy. sizuka2 fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2013 04:26
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Can't say I enjoy the latest update. We'll see how it goes though.
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Jul 14, 2013 08:40
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papa horny michael posted:Can't say I enjoy the latest update. We'll see how it goes though. There's mostly just negative feedback in Worm's comment section. I didn't love it, but since it's basically a first draft of a book there's bound to be a few bumps. I'm with you - we'll see how it goes. I'm sure Wildbow can make it good. 
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Jul 14, 2013 18:40
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I agree that I wasn't too enthusiastic about Worm's current story direction. It's a bit of a disappointment in a way after the huge amount of detailed and slow buildup before. In other new, Ra has updated. I quite like this story's direction so far, and this latest chapter only reaffirmed that impression.
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Jul 15, 2013 17:54
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Well tonight's update certainly made up for however week 25.6 was. Good character building too.
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Jul 16, 2013 09:22
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Yeah, he certainly hit this one out of the park. It's always great seeing Contessa's ability in action. Saying a few words to a monster that derail a world ending event.
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Jul 16, 2013 11:47
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Skellen posted:Well tonight's update certainly made up for however week 25.6 was. Good character building too. Oh yeah, this was a great interlude. Hit all the right emotional notes, especially with Bonesaw's origin story. If you told me I'd feel sympathy for one of the Slaughterhouse 9 I probably wouldn't have believed you. He has a great way of shaping your expectations and then flipping it all on its head.
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Jul 16, 2013 15:23
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Went through it ages ago, so caveat lector because I don't know how it holds up on a re-read, but whilst we're talking superhero serials, I quite enjoyed Interviewing Leather.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:27
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Interviewing Leather is solid. You know it's got a sequel running right now, Interviewing Trey?
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Jul 17, 2013 07:00
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sizuka2 posted:Interviewing Leather is solid. I do, though I haven't given it a shot yet.
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Jul 17, 2013 09:05
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Saint is such an rear end.
Fellwenner fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 04:14
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Dunno if I need to spoil this, but I'd really hate to ruin the story for anyone that's not caught up yet. As much as I'm enjoying Worm (and I really am), I find it kind of absurd how much it's scaled up. It used to be hard for Skitter to fight 1 or 2 capes, and now it's like, 200+ S9! Also, I understand that he probably wants to wrap it up, but I found the story more interesting when it was a little slower and Skitter had her territory, Char and Sierra and the Undersiders to interact with. It's still good writing and story, but not as interesting now that she's not a villain and not smaller scale.
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Aug 3, 2013 08:56
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Worm 27.2 is up. Legion of Doom meetings are fun. I'm mad that we finally got to see the Blasphemies, but learn nothing about them, and then there are two new (presumably) S-class capes introduced -- Ash Beast and the Sleeper, I think their names were. Also I have no clue what Teacher's powers actually are, that he's so dangerous to the world. And, as a joke theory: The first thing Scion did as it approached Earth was give all capes their powers. The second thing he did was cure someone of cancer. So if this keeps going, everyone in the worlds will get cancer, and then Scion will revoke all the shards. Also, did we ever get an explanation for why there are capes on Earth Aleph?
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Aug 17, 2013 16:06
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Grundulum posted:Worm 27.2 is up. I think the explanation for Earth Aleph is that some dead shards from the companion went to another dimension by accident? Now that I'm thinking about it I'm not sure that is a great explanation, and it hasn't been spelled out. I need Cauldron to do the Detective Explains It All scene, I'm sure they know. 
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Aug 17, 2013 17:50
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hollylolly posted:I think the explanation for Earth Aleph is that some dead shards from the companion went to another dimension by accident? Now that I'm thinking about it I'm not sure that is a great explanation, and it hasn't been spelled out. I need Cauldron to do the Detective Explains It All scene, I'm sure they know. I thought Scion's interlude explicitly spelled out that he sent some shards to other Earths but decided that Earth Bet was the one that should get most of them.
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Aug 17, 2013 18:43
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Hawkgirl posted:I thought Scion's interlude explicitly spelled out that he sent some shards to other Earths but decided that Earth Bet was the one that should get most of them. You're probably right, I kinda thought it was that but I need to reread that interlude. Also Cauldron might be responsible as well for some - or did they just kidnap people from alternate Earths for the Case 52s (Newter) and drop them all in Earth Bet?
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Aug 17, 2013 19:08
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So several possibilities for why Taylor went to talk with Shadow Stalker. Does she just want to forgive her because she can't forgive Bonesaw? Or does it have something to do with whatever Defiant motioned to the Undersiders about at one point, regarding Saint's role in Dragon's death and how he had "other options", whatever they were? If it's the latter, either Shadow Stalker is going to be used to somehow steal a backup Saint has access to with her powers or something else. Or maybe I missed whatever it was that Defiant meant there. Hell, maybe he was threatening Saint with them.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:03
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I'm so glad there's somewhere goony to talk about web serials (well, Worm, anyway) now. I've been thinking about starting up a discussion of it, but never been sure whether any goons actually like it. The thing that really impresses me I have to say is the inventiveness. So many of the powers are so simple and straightforward-sounding, and yet they manage to become so much more with a little thought. Especially Golem. Love Golem. And yeah, Saint comes off as a complete cock, but wasn't it very heavily implied in the scene where he took down Dragon that it significantly improved the numbers on the end of the world by doing so? I can't help but wonder what it would have looked like had it been one of Dragon trapped in the time-loop listening to Jack persuading her to gently caress the stupid humans and go all skynet...
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Aug 18, 2013 10:37
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SerSpook posted:
I think he was threatening that the Undersiders could take him out, and Tattletale is would probably make better use of Dragon than Saint could, possibly even better than Dragon could, because of her ability. Anyway, just caught up after a long binge read, absolutely loving it.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:41
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thespaceinvader posted:I'm so glad there's somewhere goony to talk about web serials (well, Worm, anyway) now. I've been thinking about starting up a discussion of it, but never been sure whether any goons actually like it. The thing that really impresses me I have to say is the inventiveness. So many of the powers are so simple and straightforward-sounding, and yet they manage to become so much more with a little thought. Especially Golem. Love Golem. I honestly like Saint so I'm not dogging on him. And Golem is, indeed, awesome. Personally, I think Saint improved stuff either because he was right (Dragon was abusing her power, and in her position that's a significant thing) or because he now has access to whatever Amy was trying to say way back when but the Simurgh scrambled it and set it up so Dragon's programming wouldn't be able to do anything with it. Also, for all the hate Saint gets in some quarters, Taylor also killed a three year old on the off-chance that the kid would be part of the end of the world.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:44
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thespaceinvader posted:I'm so glad there's somewhere goony to talk about web serials (well, Worm, anyway) now. I've been thinking about starting up a discussion of it, but never been sure whether any goons actually like it. The thing that really impresses me I have to say is the inventiveness. So many of the powers are so simple and straightforward-sounding, and yet they manage to become so much more with a little thought. Especially Golem. Love Golem. One downside to Worm is that after reading it, all the other mainstream superheroes that have had movies made recently all have kind of boring powers or rely on way too many of them to do something simple. Worm's simpler powers and most Capes having only 1 power means that no matter how good your power is, someone somewhere has some kind of power that could completely nullify you and probably eventually will if you live long enough. Saint/Dragon:It's stated pretty much straight up that turning off Dragon upped the chances of preventing the world ending right then, but it's not made clear how. There's no good reason to assume it's Dragon that destroys the world, just that she indirectly helped convince Scion to do so or helped Jack get the opportunity. 27.2 also says that the end of the world was always going to be caused by Scion/Entity, so it's unlikely that Dragon was going to go rogue. Saint also sucks at managing all of Dragon's systems, ie. failed to micro shields to prevent cities from being swamped by waves, and earlier on nearly got capes killed chasing Jack since he couldn't, or wouldn't, micro the ships/mechs. Saint also has the nerve to drop the "think of the bigger issues right now!" card on Defiant, after shutting down Dragon in the same critical scenario because she was getting to close to him. It had little to do with Dragon suddenly going Skynet and more to do with him being in personal trouble, but happily loving over other people who were doing actual, dangerous fieldwork. At least, that's my impression, but I could easily have missed something pointing to Dragon going rogue (other than Saint's backstory).
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Aug 18, 2013 11:45
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I can't entirely agree with that. Saint knew the world was going to end in some fashion, brought on by Jack Slash. He also knew that Dragon had been somehow changing her coding to break any built-in fail-safe in order to respond to the Jack Slash threat. Dragon was also in a position to be capable of ending the world; her power, combined with being an AI, made her a frighteningly powerful entity. Saint didn't know that it would be Scion ending the world. He acted on imperfect information and, perhaps, there was a selfish reason to do so as well but that wasn't the only reason. Saint had a long time to kill Dragon to secure his own safety, and he had long since gotten what he needed to properly profit off her work. Taylor, as I mentioned earlier, killed a three year old child due to the possibility of the kid ending the world. She also acted on imperfect information, she just didn't kill someone that could be an aid in fighting Scion. Also, keep in mind Dragon's code had been really hosed up due to Defiant modifying it at her request. It's entirely possible that she needed to be killed and a backup brought back online to obtain maximum efficiency from her in the time of crisis. That's another possibility for why killing her led to the worst scenario becoming less likely.
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Aug 18, 2013 12:10
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SerSpook posted:So several possibilities for why Taylor went to talk with Shadow Stalker. Does she just want to forgive her because she can't forgive Bonesaw? Or does it have something to do with whatever Defiant motioned to the Undersiders about at one point, regarding Saint's role in Dragon's death and how he had "other options", whatever they were? Given the lines right before the break in narration, I think your first option is the correct one. Not enough to forgive her, not this easily. Not her. I think Defiant's comment about "other options" is a nod to the fact that (old spoilers, but covering just in case we get new readers) Taylor has singlehandedly taken down three (?) of Dragon's machines, with the Undersiders accounting for a few more. And that was with Dragon ostensibly in control, though she wasn't actually doing much for some of them. What chance do you think Saint has if Defiant convinces the Undersiders that his crew is a genuine threat? This serial could definitely use the Game of Thrones mini-series treatment. It seems to have all the makings for a popular series along those lines: superheroes, villains, clever use of powers (edit: Worm is just ridiculously good at this), gray morality, superb fight scenes, an excellent escalation in tension so far, willingness to abuse/kill off the characters as needed for story purposes, and plenty of mysteries. The big problems I see are that the gratuitous use of bugs would skeeve many people out if seen on TV (I'm one of them) (one way to do it could be to use "bug's eye" views that keep most of the critter off-camera) and that a lot of the series is spent in people's heads, which would take some work to adapt to the format of TV -- narration works fine on Arrested Development and Desperate Housewives, but I doubt it would fit well here. Edit also: Wildbow has said that she probably won't do any donation bonus interludes from here to the end of the story. So any bonus chapters we get will be on characters who survive whatever apocalyptic scenarios take place between now and then. It is therefore in our best interest as a community of readers to convince a publisher to pick her up and give her a hefty commission on the work -- the more of these chapters she has to write, the more likely your favorite character is to be the focus of one (i.e. survive the series). Grundulum fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 14:52
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Is it ever stated what gender wildbow is? I see people using she and her, but haven't actually seen it explicitly mentioned that wildbow is a woman, or a name given. As far as the Saint thing goes, as a few people mentioned, I think the reason the odds went up for success was that Saint can find the things that were in Dragon's blind spots, rather than stopping Dragon as a threat or that Dragon would somehow mess up their chances. It's specifically stated that initial casualties went up, but their overall chances increased, too, which fits. I like how that makes Saint think he's a hero for doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, when in actuality it was only by coincidence that he didn't completely gently caress everyone over for nothing. Plus, it means they might bring Dragon back, and she's one of my favorite characters. I love when sci-fi subverts the evil AI kills everyone theme, too - it's really played out.
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Aug 18, 2013 17:09
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I've been using she/her for the probably-sexist reason that Wildbow's avatar in the comment threads is a cute baby animal: http://en.gravatar.com/wildbow#pic-0
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Aug 18, 2013 18:16
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Grundulum posted:Given the lines right before the break in narration, I think your first option is the correct one. Not enough to forgive her, not this easily. Not her. Just hypothetically speaking, if Worm was made into a TV show - what channel? HBO is the obvious choice for a product of the highest quality, but with most of the main characters being underage and there not being many places to shoehorn nudity into it maybe it isn't the best choice (actually near the beginning there are a ton of heroes in Brockton Bay so scandalous costumes wouldn't stand out too much). FX? I just love this story and think it deserves all the eyes on it. I even recommended it to my dad (he's 72). I'll report back if he actually reads it.  I don't really use Twitter but maybe "we" should tweet the link to Neil Gaiman or some directors or who knows. I'm just really excited to read the next chapter and I am every single week. I was so disappointed on Thursday to realize there wasn't an extra update last week. 
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Aug 18, 2013 18:20
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SerSpook posted:I can't entirely agree with that. I have to strongly disagree on this point in particular. Taylor didn't shoot her just because of the apocalyptic possibility, but also because she was in the hands of the Slaughterhouse Nine. Taylor wasn't able to get her away from them, so she saved her the only way she knew. To Taylor's knowledge it was very likely that the girl would suffer a fate worse than death if she was left in their hands any longer, and considering Gray Boy's power, it's hard to argue against killing a person to prevent them from being put into an infinite loop of agony. It was implied in one of the previous chapters that Taylor encountered one of Gray Boy's victims in Killington and simply covered them with a tarp, because no one knew how to break the loops till Foil came in with her power. As to the rest of your argument about Saint's reasoning: Saint reasons fell apart the moment it became clear that Scion was the end of the world. He has let millions die, and is continuing to let them die, by not waking Dragon up. He's a self righteous murderous rear end in a top hat who is probably also under Teacher's influence, if not outright control.
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Aug 18, 2013 18:22
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