Cytokinesis posted:I have to strongly disagree on this point in particular. Taylor didn't shoot her just because of the apocalyptic possibility, but also because she was in the hands of the Slaughterhouse Nine. Taylor wasn't able to get her away from them, so she saved her the only way she knew. To Taylor's knowledge it was very likely that the girl would suffer a fate worse than death if she was left in their hands any longer, and considering Gray Boy's power, it's hard to argue against killing a person to prevent them from being put into an infinite loop of agony. It was implied in one of the previous chapters that Taylor encountered one of Gray Boy's victims in Killington and simply covered them with a tarp, because no one knew how to break the loops till Foil came in with her power. Yeah I have to agree with this - Aster had been in the hands of the Slaughterhouse Nine for a while and if Taylor hasn't shot her she would have been in their custody for at least hours more, and Jack had no reason to hold back against her any longer. Even Golem knew that is was a mercy killing, even if he didn't want any confirmation of it because mercy killing a 3 yr old is pretty dark. Just look what they put Riley/Bonesaw through in just one evening when the Nine first met her. Taylor made a terrible choice, but it was the right choice and no one in story has given her even a moment of grief about it, not even the girl's brother. Grey Boy's loops still continue to exist even though he doesn't, right?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 18:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:08 |
|
|
hollylolly posted:Grey Boy's loops still continue to exist even though he doesn't, right? Right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 20:20
|
|
|
Cytokinesis posted:no one knew how to break the loops till Foil came in with her power. I'm not actually sure Foil's power DOES penetrate Gray Boy's loops - he's shown to be able to freeze her darts in midair when he knows they're coming. It was only because she got the drop on him that she was able to kill him (apparently) permanently, due to the *wormnobabbly* nature of her powers, as far as I could tell. She essentially severed his brain from his shard before he could react, and stopped him being able to control it, even reflexively, or they'd still be just as screwed. If Foil CAN shoot through his time-loops though, the people in them will be very grateful, if they ever get the chance to be saved. Just imagine what it must be like for them now, watching Scion *shudder*. Extinction 27.1 confirmed that Foil was never actually trapped, she was faking it until she could get the drop. One is forced to wonder how the gently caress they ever took down the original Gray Boy. I'd wonder the same about Harbinger, except presumably they used Contessa for that one; her powers are like his on steroids.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 23:12
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:I'm not actually sure Foil's power DOES penetrate Gray Boy's loops - he's shown to be able to freeze her darts in midair when he knows they're coming. It was only because she got the drop on him that she was able to kill him (apparently) permanently, due to the *wormnobabbly* nature of her powers, as far as I could tell. She essentially severed his brain from his shard before he could react, and stopped him being able to control it, even reflexively, or they'd still be just as screwed. If Foil CAN shoot through his time-loops though, the people in them will be very grateful, if they ever get the chance to be saved. Just imagine what it must be like for them now, watching Scion *shudder*. Extinction 27.1 confirmed that Foil was never actually trapped, she was faking it until she could get the drop. Anything that can outright destroy both him and his shard within a single loop ought to do it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Cytokinesis posted:They didn't bring the original Harbringer down. The Number Man is the original Harbringer, and he decided to go straight after he teamed up with Jack to kill King. I know. I guess I just assumed that there was some sort of Cauldron-delivered beatdown involved in his turn from... well, evil to a slightly less absolute evil... much like with the clones... E: and as regards Gray Boy, I think the implication is that his power can loop him back basically as far as when he first triggered, hence his agelessness and always appearing in his original clothes, which is a result of his power resisting any change from his trigger state. It would be VERY difficult to kill him effectively enough that he couldn't get out of it, because even if you nuked him, or whatever, he could rewind to before the nuke, walk a little way, it would go off, he would rewind, walk a little further, repeat until he's out of the danger zone (or more accurately, was never even in it in the first place). Even trapping him wouldn't work, as we saw with the hand crushing him against the wall. His power works instantaneously and entirely involuntarily when protecting him, it's only because Foil's darts cheat that they worked. E again: perhaps more to the point: if Foil's darts can pop through Gray boy's bubbles and kill those inside permanently, wouldn't she have just shot Jack whilst they had the chance, before he talked Scion into loving the world up? thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 23:30
|
|
|
Cytokinesis posted:I have to strongly disagree on this point in particular. Taylor didn't shoot her just because of the apocalyptic possibility, but also because she was in the hands of the Slaughterhouse Nine. Taylor wasn't able to get her away from them, so she saved her the only way she knew. To Taylor's knowledge it was very likely that the girl would suffer a fate worse than death if she was left in their hands any longer, and considering Gray Boy's power, it's hard to argue against killing a person to prevent them from being put into an infinite loop of agony. It was implied in one of the previous chapters that Taylor encountered one of Gray Boy's victims in Killington and simply covered them with a tarp, because no one knew how to break the loops till Foil came in with her power. I guess you can consider killing Aster a mercy killing sure. Let's look at it like this though. Scion was the end of the world, Saint didn't know that. Saint thought it might be Dragon and so killed her. You're saying that makes Saint terrible and his actions were wrong, despite him applying the information he had to the situation and arriving at a fairly logical conclusion. Particularly considering Dragon was pursuing a personal vendetta with authority given to her to deal with an S-class threat. Hell, Dragon probably didn't even realize she was doing it which perhaps makes it worse. But let's reverse that. You're basically saying that Saint's motives, selfish or not, don't really matter because he let millions die. Even if he was doing it for noble reasons, or told himself so, Scion being the cause made everything Saint did fall apart. However, it was the right call if Dinah's predictions are anything to go by. Whatever his reasons, the outcome was that the worst-case scenario became less likely. And significantly less likely considering how the numbers weren't really fluctuating until that point. Was Dragon going to go rogue AI like Saint thought? Most certainly not. But it still provided something key, which I think is the more interesting conversation than how Saint is a total rear end in a top hat or not. Why did Dragon dying help things? I see a few reasons. 1. Rogue AI (not likely) 2. The information the Simurgh hid from her (very likely) 3. They need to reboot Dragon because Defiant hosed up her coding. I like this one the most in all honesty. It'd make all the problems we see Dragon experiencing since Defiant started modifying her into something significant. It's probably less likely than number 2 though. Either way, she really does need to be brought back online at some point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 01:43
|
|
|
This thread needs to be renamed Web Serials: Worm Declassified.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 02:01
|
|
|
sirtommygunn posted:This thread needs to be renamed Web Serials: Worm Declassified. To try and get away from making the entire page a CIA document, I'll say that one of the big tics in Wildbow's writing that bugs me a bit is that he seems to love the word copacetic. It's not terrible, but it started to bug me as it got to the later chapters and I began to think 'Someone might want to show him a thesaurus.'
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 02:49
|
|
|
berenzen posted:To try and get away from making the entire page a CIA document, I'll say that one of the big tics in Wildbow's writing that bugs me a bit is that he seems to love the word copacetic. It's not terrible, but it started to bug me as it got to the later chapters and I began to think 'Someone might want to show him a thesaurus.' I actually really loved copacetic when it seemed to just be Tattletale using it. It just seemed in character for her, but then other characters started doing it too and, well, it lost its luster.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 03:24
|
|
|
berenzen posted:To try and get away from making the entire page a CIA document, I'll say that one of the big tics in Wildbow's writing that bugs me a bit is that he seems to love the word copacetic. It's not terrible, but it started to bug me as it got to the later chapters and I began to think 'Someone might want to show him a thesaurus.' He also really likes the term "headspace", and uses 'anyways' instead of 'anyway', which really bugs me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 04:19
|
|
|
Whee, looks like Bonesaw and Pancaea are going to have a little chat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 06:22
|
|
|
Is it just me, or are those two basically the most tragic characters in the whole thing? Either or both of those powers, used judiciously and sensibly, could have basically fixed most of the worst problems in the world. Instead, they're a serial killer and a disturbed mind-rapist. Only Wildbow. On a more spoilery note, did it strike anyone else that the Simurgh's long-distance assassination of Accord by Cody/Perdition another of the really bad things for the setting? It's implied that his power actually works, and he could do things like solve world hunger if given the purse strings, and he'd just got into a position where someone would listen equitably to him, and had enough power to make others do the same in the long run. Bang, lasered. loving inscrutable ENdbringers. I've been wondering whether they're actually naked Shard/Passengers, without the humanising influence...
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 18:43
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:Is it just me, or are those two basically the most tragic characters in the whole thing? Either or both of those powers, used judiciously and sensibly, could have basically fixed most of the worst problems in the world. Instead, they're a serial killer and a disturbed mind-rapist. Only Wildbow. Don't forget about Mannequin! A brilliant tinker on the verge of solving world hunger and other such turned into a psychotic serial killer. quote:loving inscrutable ENdbringers. I've been wondering whether they're actually naked Shard/Passengers, without the humanising influence... Didn't Tattletale say they were created? Seems like a pretty unlikely theory. Elyv fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Aug 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 19:28
|
|
|
Elyv posted:Don't forget about Mannequin! A brilliant tinker on the verge of solving world hunger and other such turned into a psychotic serial killer. I'd consider it a little ridiculous how events seem to go out of their way to steer the world into a bad end if that wasn't the Simurgh's entire point of existence. Tattletale has been wrong before, and this is a situation where it's tough to even get some correct information to start from so she's not extremely reliable. On the other hand, the clearly deliberate escalation with the two and a half new Endbringers strongly imply some kind of leadership with the Endbringers, which would likely come from whatever creates them. Where do the new Endbringers chill out between attacks anyway? I thought it was pretty cool how the original three had a kind of solid-liquid-gas theme with their hibernation cycles but it doesn't seem like there's anywhere for these new ones to hide out. Also, at what point in the story are we considering everything after that to be a spoiler? I'd think the death of Behemoth would be a good point, but it's been awhile since then so we could possibly consider that a non-spoiler. sirtommygunn fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Aug 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 20:12
|
|
|
I don't think it's been mentioned where the new Endbringers kip. One would imagine that Bohu ought to be obvious, at least. I'd be fine with anything not from the latest arc being non-spoilery myself. It's a pain in the arse typing spoiler tags. I'd imagine most people who get to this stage in the thread and aren't already pissed that this is the only story being discussed (I must pick up some other ones...) would be up-to-date by now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
sirtommygunn posted:Where do the new Endbringers chill out between attacks anyway? I thought it was pretty cool how the original three had a kind of solid-liquid-gas theme with their hibernation cycles but it doesn't seem like there's anywhere for these new ones to hide out. My guess is the teleporting one kicks back in another dimension. No idea on the one that's only shown up offscreen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 20:35
|
|
|
Tohu/Bohu showed up onscreen (briefly) in one of the interludes during the timeskip between Behemoth's death and now. Very briefly - i.e. not even a whole interlude IIRC. I think it was one of Golem's chapters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2013 21:20
|
|
|
Thursday update! This really doesn't look good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 06:38
|
|
|
Well, I suppose that just happened. If there's any point that Skitter's going to have her second trigger, it'd probably be right about now. During Scion's update it seems that she was basically on the verge of it happening, plus the fact that she's come to terms with the passenger and herself- which was apparently one of the things keeping her back, and she was just abandoned by pretty well everyone. Also, as I'm reading though this again, it's kinda cool picking up on all the really cool foreshadowing and hints that you notice once you've seen what happens. Like Pancaea's feelings towards Gallant and Glory Girl and the reactions and interactions that they have with each other.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 09:49
|
|
|
berenzen posted:Well, I suppose that just happened. If there's any point that Skitter's going to have her second trigger, it'd probably be right about now. During Scion's update it seems that she was basically on the verge of it happening, plus the fact that she's come to terms with the passenger and herself- which was apparently one of the things keeping her back, and she was just abandoned by pretty well everyone. I hope so. I'd really like her to have a power up and be a heavy hitter or something. Edit: Also, here is some surely incorrect theorizing: Well here goes with my interpretation of the various roles. I’ve combined both what this arc chapter specifies as well as what the role means in a general or historical sense, at least as I believe it to be. Fairy queen: Glaistig Uaine Queen administrator: Taylor Champion: Chevalier or Legend. Leaning to the former due to the latters involvement with Cauldron. Defiant is out due to his fall and redemption cycle ill fitting this persona and Grue is too damaged and unknown (comparably). Helping to keep the court on the path set by the high priest. Consistently noble, fighting for their cause/side/faith. A standard to which others aspire. Skill in arms, skill in leadership. Protection of those in need. Inspiring. High priest: Scion or Jack. Leaning towards Scion as Jack is out of commission, and while Scion could (I believe) neutralize Gray Boy’s loop of Jack, it doesn’t resolve the latters’ being anything but a catalyst. Another set piece if you will. Initiator of the conflict. Deserving of Respect. Is not fully apprised of what the main group is doing/conspiring. Not in communication. Is rigid and putting on an act, wears mask(s) to hide his/her true self. S/he who sets events in motion. Did expect a new play, but now there is no finale. Interface between man and the divine. Keeper of the faith/secrets/mysteries. Interprets Gods will and/or words to the world. Observer: Dinah. Opposite the Champion in keeping the act in motion. Watcher. Neutral. Witness. Arbiter. Shaper: Riley or Panacea. Helps clean up the aftermath of the Act. Ability to shape, given the context of the zenith of this Act, humans. To further elucidate, the planet is a mess with hundreds of millions dead. The core of the defense and vision consists of parahumans, very few in number and in immediate vicinity to the Act’s culmination. This suggests that the Shaper is directly related to them and their cause. Demesne-keeper: Labyrinth. Demesne means “manorial land actually possessed by the lord and not held by tenants.” Bear this in mind when interpreting this persons’ identity and role. is the lord the same or other than the high priest? is the lord even a person? Is it the species? And with ‘tenants’ being humans does that rule out this Earth plane? I don’t know if I err or not by excluding Cauldron capes. I do believe at this point, though, that they are the Antagonists if this story and Scion will ultimately redeem and grow/learn/evolve. Cauldron are the other court and the final conflict will be the two courts in battle Fellwenner fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Aug 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 11:02
|
|
|
Scion Listened to Jack, maybe because he got the Communicator shard. Didn't Taylor get that one too?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 13:17
|
|
|
Dietrich posted:Scion Listened to Jack, maybe because he got the Communicator shard. I figured it was because [spoiler]with the death of the thinker worm Scion's point of existence thus far ended and he was at a loss, and this is how he begins to evolve again. How is he to know what morality is?/spoiler]
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 13:28
|
|
|
Dietrich posted:Scion Listened to Jack, maybe because he got the Communicator shard. Taylor got the broadcaster shard didn't she? Which is similar to the communicator shard, but not quite the same.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 17:10
|
|
|
berenzen posted:Taylor got the broadcaster shard didn't she? Which is similar to the communicator shard, but not quite the same. Taylor got administrator, which I'm guessing is the equivalent of the PRT's Master classification?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 17:25
|
|
|
berenzen posted:Taylor got the broadcaster shard didn't she? Which is similar to the communicator shard, but not quite the same.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 17:39
|
|
^^^^^ ah, that makes more sense than how my brain was parsing it.  berenzen posted:Taylor got the broadcaster shard didn't she? Which is similar to the communicator shard, but not quite the same. I thought it was pretty clear that Jack has the broadcast shard (I don't think there is a separate communication shard), which is why he could communicate with Scion despite being covered up with containment foam. Also he could broadcast to and somehow know what capes were doing. I sort of like the idea that his attack is just broadcasting a knife cut (or something). I need to reread Scion's interlude again, between that and the Faerie Queen's explanation I feel like I should understand it all more than I do.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 17:41
|
|
|
Except Taylor's powers are literally a mind control broadcast. Also, Scion could hear Jack because he's Scion, none of the other capes could hear what Jack was saying, except for Tecton who was in melee range at the time.
sirtommygunn fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Aug 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
sirtommygunn posted:Except Taylor's powers are literally a mind control broadcast. Also, Scion could hear Jack because he's Scion, none of the other capes could hear what Jack was saying, except for Tecton who was in melee range at the time. I just checked and Scion considers Jack's and Taylor's shards to be different. He also recognizes them both as ones he sent out, Taylor's the last sent out and Jack's as one of the last. He calls Jack's the broadcast shard and just uses the word "Queen" to refer to Taylor's. I personally think Jack's shard was used to communicate with his partner and other entities, whereas Taylor's' was used to coordinate all of the other shards. Or maybe that's what Glaistig Uaine's shard is? eta: Basically, I think Taylor's shard is about controlling other things in general, and coordinating them. Particularly people with other powers, at least on the coordinating them part; this helps explain her tactical ability against S-class threats like Echidna or Behemoth. Jack's thinker power was about communicating with them in a persuasive manner. I think both should possibly have a significantly higher Thinker rating, perhaps even a Trump one, if they're really able to manipulate or use parahumans in this fashion. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Aug 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
SerSpook posted:whereas Taylor's' was used to coordinate all of the other shards. Or maybe that's what Glaistig Uaine's shard is? I'm pretty sure at this point that Glaistig Uaine's shard is the one that calls back/reunites shards as they die and/or at the grand finale.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 23:10
|
|
NinjaDebugger posted:I'm pretty sure at this point that Glaistig Uaine's shard is the one that calls back/reunites shards as they die and/or at the grand finale. Yes, something like that. She's interested in the end of the act and moving on to the next play, which would indicate gathering all the shards up, exploding all the Earths and moving on to a new planet, in the Worms' life cycle. But of course this cycle is broken, with the death of the companion/thinker worm, and the unknown third worm probably around somewhere. I have to think that Cauldron is somehow connected to the third worm, because Scion didn't recognize their shards at all, while he knows his own and also the 'dead' shards of the companion. And Wildbow pointedly didn't have Scion think about the Endbringers at all in his interlude, which is maddening. 
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
Maybe we could have a listing of the more unusual shards out there? Skitter is the Administrator shard of course, and amongst other things, Shards themselves are kind of like insects. They form hive entities in combination, but have quite rudimentary intelligence otherwise. Glaistig Uaine's is probably the harvester shard as mentioned, to get them all back into one entity at the end. Jack Slash is still alive, if trapped and still possessed of the broadcast shard. I figure it's what the Worms use to communicate, across a wide variety of energies and realities. Foil's shard is the weapon the Worms use on each other. Presumably the attack transcends time, space or even dimensions, since the Worm entities exist in multiple dimensions(and even Scion here is just a projection). Chevalier's ability seems to fit these categories, he can see the nature of the shards involved, and on top of that, seems to be able to merge just about anything anything. He's not using it to it's full capacity, much like Jack. Dinah's precognition seems to fit the Worm-type of future perception. Any others I missed? Man, this page is quite the CIA document.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 11:40
|
|
|
We could probably use a new thread just for Worm that laid some ground rules for spoilers in the OP. As long as new readers might be showing up, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 19:39
|
|
|
Grundulum posted:We could probably use a new thread just for Worm that laid some ground rules for spoilers in the OP. As long as new readers might be showing up, I prefer to err on the side of caution. I tend to agree with this. I don't mind the spoilers so much, but others do, and Worm is something that it's really easy to be at a different point in from everyone else. A thread just for itself with its own spoiler policy would be great. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Aug 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
Would web serials survive as it's own thread without Worm discussion?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:49
|
|
|
Isn't it basically nothing but Worm discussion right now?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2013 22:57
|
|
|
When I revived the thread, it had been dropping down the list -- may even have been on the second page. I think a new thread for "Worm (and other web serials)" is warranted, as opposed to the "Web serials (including Worm)" that we have right now. There is apparently a good deal of fanart if anyone cares to looks through it for an OP. I'm surely not going to.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 00:22
|
|
|
Grundulum posted:When I revived the thread, it had been dropping down the list -- may even have been on the second page. I think a new thread for "Worm (and other web serials)" is warranted, as opposed to the "Web serials (including Worm)" that we have right now. Or we can be lazy and use this link: http://parahumans.wordpress.com/gallery/ Also, I don't necessarily think we need a new thread so much as an agreed upon spoiler policy, OP update with it, and a title change (last not that necessary I guess).
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 00:42
|
|
|
If someone posts a good spoiler policy I would be glad to update the OP. A title change would be nice too, because we really aren't discussing anything but Worm here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 03:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:08 |
|
Worm update reaction:  Wow. I just can't imagine where the story goes from here...and I like it.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2013 05:34
|
|