Web Serial Thread: Wildbow Fanclub

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Algid: Oct 10, 2007

berenzen posted:

Taylor got the broadcaster shard didn't she? Which is similar to the communicator shard, but not quite the same.

Jack was broadcaster, he only projects kinetic energy because the shard was crippled before it sent out. The administrator shard was probably locked in a similar way, both of them would be way too powerful otherwise.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2013 17:39

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:31

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

SerSpook posted:

I have a suspicion that Taylor already had her second trigger event right after the first. Earlier I know one character speculated that secondary trigger events occur in a decent number of capes during the first one, but it goes unnoticed due to the timing.

Also, Bonesaw and Panacea working together will at least somewhat repair Taylor's shard I bet. They're both there, Bonesaw has researched passengers, Panacea can effect things on a level Bonesaw never could.

It's almost certain that Taylor already had her second trigger event, Chevalier's interlude pretty much confirmed that. I'm sort of wondering what her power would even be if it was fixed, would she just control everything with a brain around her?

# ¿ Aug 26, 2013 04:08

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Hawkgirl posted:

I figured that Contessa's hole is just one of the nerfs that Scion put in her shard so that it couldn't be too good. Or Scion's counterpart, maybe. Anyhow if that's the case, then he would be able to use her power without the nerf.

It sucks if Eidolon is dead though. He just figured out all of his power!

Countessa didn't get her shard from Scion or his partner.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2013 18:37

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Grundulum posted:

What is the Scar in Brockton Bay? I seem to have glazed over whatever event(s) caused it, and it gets a lot of references after the fact.

The bombing run on Crawler and Mannequin that left stuff like fires that won't go out, temporal distortions, and localized radiation.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2013 20:50

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Sort of weird how the only Endbringer that hasn't shown up is the one that happens to mirror Eidolon's powers. It even specifically copied Eidolon in that little bit we saw during the time-skip.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 00:00

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Lprsti99 posted:

This has probably already been thoroughly discussed, but I enjoy hashing stuff out like this, so bear with me.

So, a thought I've had after reading the interlude where Crusader and Purity take Theo to the university to talk to the parahuman expert guy, as well as Tattletale's explanation of how the passengers are big, whale-kind-of beings in another dimension. During the interlude from Noelle's point of view, when she's fighting Eidolon, she realizes that her passenger wasn't supposed to go to her. That makes me believe that the effect of Cauldron's power-giving potion (for lack of a better term) is to force a passenger to connect to the person who drank the potion, meaning whoever that passenger was meant for doesn't get it.

We also know that the children of capes generally get powers similar to their parents' (Glory Girl getting light manipulation from Brandish and Flashbang, Panacea getting biology manipulation from Marquis). So, poor Theo, whose (presumed, it wasn't confirmed or denied yet) father and grandfather were metal manipulators, should have a similar power along those lines, and yet has not had a trigger event yet, though he really should have. Sure, he's evidently not been in a situation likely to cause a trigger event yet, hence them abandoning him at the end of that interlude, but what if one of the Case 53's, namely Weld, intercepted his passenger and got a warped version of what his power would have been?

That also leads me to wonder what would happen if someone who was eventually destined to gain powers normally drank one of the potions. Would it just bring on their trigger event more quickly? Would they get a completely different power than what they would have? What if they triggered afterward, would it be just like a normal secondary event, where they gain new powers, or would there be some sort of conflict? Can the person whose passenger was intercepted still trigger, and if so, do they get a new one, or is there some interaction with the person who got the original?

Goddamn, but it's been a while since a book made me think this hard. I love it.

"Inheriting" powers aren't based on getting a shard from any of the alien entities directly. The shards seem to fall across a pretty large section of space and time, but children of capes specifically get their powers because a nearby shard is mature and generates new shards. This was mentioned in the Scion POV.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2013 01:50

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

Yep, the shards themselves grow, reproduce, and evolve. The children of capes are generally getting the child shards of their parents shards. Taylor's shard has a child shard for instance, but it's not in contact with anyone.

Aiden has it. He's the kid that got bird control powers and drew the pictures that had to be described to Lisa.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2013 05:05

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Tollymain posted:

loving hell. I think I know how Cauldron already saved the world once. What's one other thing that we know would end the world? What if somehow they assassinated Scion's counterpart to prevent the two entities from simply performing the cycle and destroying all earths?

I mean, it could just be but it seems to fit.

That's pretty much the going theory at this point. I don't think anyone really expects anything else.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2013 16:16

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

Scion's never actually been invulnerable, well, he did make sure he couldn't lose a fight against the shards he altered and cast out, but those same shards have changed, and reproduced since then. He's dealing with far more unknowns than he started this whole experiment with, he's running himself dry of power at the same time. He's acting in total desperation, trying whatever he can to induce some sort of improvement in his own situation. He's basically committing a sort of suicide here.

It's not even that, he's a projection so he literally can't die from fighting the capes. His real body is cordoned off on (several) alternate Earths. Stopping Foil's bolt is just a way to conserve energy, it would have at most dispersed the projection if he had been hit.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2013 23:17

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Vateke posted:

Not really. S9 only targeted the city because they were reeling from Behemoth's attack.

And this caused a chain of events that eventually lead Jack to Scion and had him start murdering everyone years ahead of schedule, which according to Cauldron is the best case scenario for actually winning.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2013 04:36

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

hollylolly posted:

I think I'm going to have to read that chapter a few times because I didn't get why Satyr was doing what he was doing either. Just a death wish?

Pretender is a Cauldron cape, I think it has something to do with that, considering who's with the doctor right now.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 06:51

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Lord_Pigeonbane posted:

29.7 Welp, it looks like Taylor's been crippled... again. It's kinda neat how that isn't treated like a particularly big deal. At this point, having her arm crushed isn't even in her top three medical emergencies. Why did her ball break, anyway.

It was shattered along with all the glass by Scion, that's also why Dr's vial blew up in her hand before she could drink it.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2013 17:55

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

It's even better than that

Eden basically asked this cool new shard she found how to complete the worm life cycle without the inevitable bit where existence fills up with worms and dies anyway, and the shard went "here watch this vision!" and so Eden watched that vision, was distracted, and crashed face first into the planet, lost the shard, which was immediately picked up by a little girl, who came strait for Eden's struggling body and killed her, and then began a long term plan to defeat Zion.

We also know that this shard, which was apparently stronger than Eden's original version, doesn't give answers that aren't asked for. If you ask how to climb a mountain it'll tell you where to put your hands and feet, but it isn't going to tell you why you should put them there unless you ask. And honestly, it works so well why question the answers it gives?

The shard has been working on making what Eden wanted happen the whole time.

Think about the differences between the future Eden saw and what actually happened. No Cauldron. No Hero, Eidolon, Legend, or Alexandria. No Coil. No mass cooperation. No Taylor. Jack is a "good guy". No Eden to interfere.

Sorry the answer to your question involved you smashing face first into a planet Eden.

I think it isn't that she had new powers that were better, it's that her future-sight was damaged since she had to donate part of it to the third entity. She mentioned how she was going to get it fixed when she merged with Zion again and they spawn the next generation. The vision that was shown was 1 of the earlier iterations of the simulation, the world was divided into factions and the thinker spawned endbringers (two sounded like Echidna and Leviathan), and it went around with Zion and worked to promote conflict. The capes were powered by Zion and the endbringers by the thinker, future simulations refined this to be "optimal".

The optimal simulation also had endbringers powered by the thinker, and Zion still powered the capes, except now the level of conflict is optimal because everyone is playing for real. Zion is basically the most credible threat that can be faced by humanity, and everyone is aware of the threat of extinction, including Zion himself.

Algid fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Oct 13, 2013

# ¿ Oct 13, 2013 00:25

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Grundulum posted:

I know exactly the scene you're referring to, but I didn't think that was supposed to be Taylor.

Yeah, that was Imp.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2013 16:02

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Happy Yeti posted:

There's a quote in the Zion POV interlude, where he says he's sending the last shard (that he mostly destroys; and later mentions as Taylor's shard) to a "thin" man (Danny) surrounded by "strong males and females" (the dockworkers) close to the future seeing shard (Dinah's).

He was describing the looting going on after Leviathan and how Imp wanted to escape from notice. "A male guards his offspring, a female, with his size and bulk. A group of hostile bipeds cluster around them."

Taylor didn't get her powers in such a condition, it was talking about Imp and how she wanted to escape from notice.

edit: I think I see what you're talking about, though it's only in Imp's case that the shard was shown to have explicitly moved from the parent to the child.

Algid fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Oct 14, 2013

# ¿ Oct 14, 2013 19:28

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

new chapter

:stare:

# ¿ Oct 15, 2013 05:21

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

All of the grammar and spelling mistakes in this update are on loving purpose. Wildbow you subtle and evil bastard.

It really popped out at me near the end.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2013 00:29

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

I'm wondering what Countessa and the Simurgh is going to do about all this. The clairvoyant's sight can already be used to read the Simurgh if Taylor can focus enough attention to do that, I don't see what Countessa can really do either aside from offering her power. It'll even sort of solve the communication issue since Taylor can then start mimicking languages like Fortuna used to.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2013 06:57

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

He's probably based off of some sort of hibernation module for traveling through space, so basically the ultimate trump power that just shuts everything down.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2013 20:21

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Tollymain posted:

We still aren't 100% on what the Endbringers' role in all this was working towards. Wonder if that will come to light in the epilogue.

What is the Simurgh's deal?

They're part of the thinker's module designed to promote conflict. Scion hands out shards, and the thinker uses shards independently of humans to test them and create war. It ended up being spawned off of Eidolon, but they still followed their previous programming for the most part.

Not sure what the Simurgh is trying to do though.

edit: I mean, I sort of get what she was doing by helping to kill Scion, the future sight shard didn't parse the questions right so maximizing conflict ends up killing the thinker and Scion, but what's she going to do now?

Algid fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Oct 29, 2013

# ¿ Oct 29, 2013 06:31

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Dietrich posted:

I would really prefer it if she were dead. It makes her whole story of sacrifice for the greater good that much more powerful. And I'm tired of every single media I consume being set up for sequels.

The simurgh seems to want her to live. This also probably means that Taylor is pretty much gone and her current plan of conquer all the worlds is the best path towards promoting more conflict among the shards.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2013 20:01

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

But I am pretty drat sure at this point that Eidolon didn't create the Endbringers, unknowingly or otherwise. The claim that Contessa's power wouldn't work on Eidolon is probably complete bullshit, after all, Zion's sure did, yet Contessa never seemed to think Eidolon was the source. No, the only thing that Contessa's powers have ever failed to work on are Worms, and Endbringers. And the Endbringers didn't really work as "powerful foes" for Eidolon anyway, they didn't target him, they where simply way to impersonal for that. On top of all of that the Simurgh probably has Dinah's power, or at least a form of it, and may well have "the path to vitory" as well. But maybe the most telling thing here is the reaction that the Endbringers actually caused from capes, and people in general. Co-operation. Which was very counter to the Worms goals, and to Eidolon's personality as well.

Eidolon got the collection of shards that wasn't broken up, the part that would have controlled the main base of power for the thinker. The thinker's early simulation involved Scion granting shards to humans with her molding shards into endbringers. Contessa's power definitely works on Eidolon, we know that from Eidolon's interlude, that doesn't mean she ever found the need to direct her power against him and completely crush him. It's also not clear that Scion even knows what's going on, using the power just directs him to output a response that causes him to win. That also doesn't mean the statement was completely true, it was just what was needed to allow Scion to win in the easiest way. Eidolon wanted a challenge for the same reason all capes did, the shards promoted conflict seeking behavior, but it's also true that endbringer shards were planned from the start by the thinker. As for cooperation, that's actually a change prompted by the defective future sight shard. The thinker sought to maximize conflict, without filtering the question, maximizing conflict means the death of the thinker and the eventual battle with Scion, which obviously requires cooperation and even direct help from the endbringers.

Algid fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Oct 30, 2013

# ¿ Oct 30, 2013 02:52

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Contessa's power tell her what she needs to do, the details that get filled depends on what question she's asking. She can speak English/alien without even knowing the language, and her power was used to process the formula, that didn't mean they turned out perfectly. She even acknowledges that, the flawed future sight is what caused the thinker to suicide herself, and it's why she kept Doctor around to act as a filter for her and help cover her blind spots. It's sort of like how Dinah works best when other people asks her questions. She's also further constrained by her powers not working against the thinker and Scion, which could very well apply to the endbringers like she said.

Algid fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Oct 30, 2013

# ¿ Oct 30, 2013 03:20

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Skippy McPants posted:

Yeah, the more I think about it...

The more I'll be hugely disappointed if that is unambiguously the end of Taylor. It's too loving nihilistic, her final thoughts at the end of 30.7 are those of a depressed and emotionally exhausted young woman. There's no catharsis, it just feels like a recent trauma victim getting double tapped for no good reason.

And that idea that Contessa, who was at least as horrible as Taylor and ineffective to boot, would be the one of off her is majorly unsatisfying.

The undersiders didn't buy their powers but they were still one of Cauldron's primary plans, powerful clairvoyants all knew that to some degree. Dinah obviously knew, one of the earlier interludes had Cauldron discussing Coil and the undersiders, and Accord was trying to help them along in some way during his interlude. So Contessa is probably at least partially responsible for how Taylor turned out.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2013 17:08

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Skippy McPants posted:

I think the interaction between Contessa and Taylor at the end there makes it pretty clear just how little Contessa actually feels she accomplished and how much she resents how blase Taylor is about the threat Scion posed.

Contessa more or less turned herself into a monster in the hope of stopping Scion and Taylor was all just "Nope, maybe if you'd been less of a horrible waste of a person maybe it could have all gone different, oh well." Taylor on the other hand turned herself into much less of a monster and did stop Scion.

I didn't get the feeling that she resented Taylor, she just regretted the fact that she was wrong. It's also based on how their shards influenced them, Contessa's power gave an output to a particular input, if you don't ask the right question, you could end up suiciding yourself like the thinker did. Taylor's power lets her analyze how different shards worked together, she knew it wasn't a particular power that would allow them to win, they just have to break past bounds of the simulation that Scion was working with, which meant everyone cooperating.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2013 17:29

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

AgentHaiTo posted:

I just want Dragon to give Taylor that hug that she so wanted. Why couldn't it end like that?

Also, what was Contessa doing to not be controlled by Taylor. I think Contessa said she had some kind of protection or something, or does Contessa's I Win power just negate Taylor's mind control area effect.

She's sitting 20ft away and she's Contessa, there's no way she's getting caught.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2013 01:36

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Skippy McPants posted:

I think I'd debate this point at least. It just so happened that the Undersiders stumbled on a Cauldron plot, but I think Taylor's general pragmatism and bloody mindedness would have led her down a similar path even without Coil being in the picture.

Edit: Although I guess you could make the argument that without the turning point that was murdering Coil she might not have had the flexibility of mind needed to let her chose the necessary path at the end there.

No, they knew that Coil and the undersiders were important, and that they couldn't interfere with their development too overtly. It's probably the same general sense Dinah got of Taylor.

Accord knew as well and he was trying to help them along, the Simurgh assassinated him for that. If we assume the Simurgh still wants to maximize conflict, and that Taylor is actually dead, it could just be that she needed an air gun to push her in the right direction. I somehow doubt the glass tube is somehow just an air gun though, so Taylor is almost definitely still alive. It also means her staying alive would result in greater conflict, which is not necessarily a bad thing considering how parahumans could literally take over entire worlds at this point.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2013 19:22

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Darth Walrus posted:

There's a catch with that - Eidolon died between those two events, at which point the Endbringers basically gave up on everything. I don't think we can assume that the Simurgh was operating according to her original objectives when she saved Taylor.

The difference wasn't just that Eidolon died, it was Scion killing everyone. They were meant to promote conflict by shoring up the weaker side and acting to test powers at critical point of conflict without just taking the shortest path and destroying their opponents.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2013 20:01

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Darth Walrus posted:

Did they have a function that developed? I thought they just existed to be enemies for Eidolon to have a proper fight against.

We saw in Contessa's interlude that the thinker was simulating futures to test the shards and harvest humanity. One of the simulations showed the world divided into various parahuman groups with groups of endbringers aligned with them. The thinker created the endbringers (just like Eidolon eventually did), and Scion supplied shards to humans.

That's why the endbringers always held back unless they were truly challenged, they weren't there to destroy the world, just to apply enough pressure to test the shards that were planted in people.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2013 21:06

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

I'm going to spell this out because a lot of people miss it anyway, it is subtle as hell, so it's ok to not really get it.

Contessa gets the third entities "path" shard.
Contessa uses the shard to kill the third entity.
Contessa and Doctor Mother form Cauldron, learn to process Eden's body in order to grant powers.
Contessa chooses people as candidates for tests of Cauldron's formula, amongst these are; Hero, Legend, Eidolon, and Alexandria.
Alexandria forms the Protectorate, Wards, and PRT with the help of Cauldron resources.
The Wards offer pardons to underage capes who commit crimes.
One of these pardons is given to Sophia Hess.
Sophia Hess is the catalyst for the victimization of Taylor Hebert.
The victimization of Taylor Hebert leads to Taylor both triggering and adopting her primary anchor.

This is leaving out the more direct effect Contessa had on Lung (both his triggering, and the loss of his original gang, which causes him to adopt the coping mechanism that he does), and the placement and growth of Coil. Also the creation of the Endbringers and the machinizations of The Simurgh, which may also have their roots in Contessa's actions.

It's not even that, it was in the Alexandria interlude where they talk about Coil and how everything rested on him. After Taylor kills him, it was amended to being the undersiders. Contessa obviously knew that something important was going to happen and that they couldn't directly interfere, it's just that she didn't know why.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2013 03:21

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

Well it's not like Contessa is a total idiot, she might have figured out that Coil was important not because of Coil but because of the Undersiders, but she really didn't know that a great deal of her choices focused on creating Taylor.

Hell, Contessa and Cauldron thought the whole thing was a failure after Taylor turned herself in to the PRT.

It's important to remember that Contessaa doesn't know why "the path" feeds her the actions it does, either because it cannot answer that, or because Contessa never asked.

The future sight shard was broken because the thinker had to exchange part of it with the third entity. She thought that it would get fixed after she took over the world with Scion and they spawned the next generation, but she was asking it to maximize conflict and it basically told her to kill herself and set up things up so humanity actually got a fair shot at Scion.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2013 03:32

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

How has someone not killed teacher yet? He's had to have pissed off enough people by now.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 06:49

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

thespaceinvader posted:

The overriding theory is that they're there (for some reason and created/directed by someone) to provide something for capes to fight in order for their shards to develop, but that theory is not without its problems (mostly that they killed a gently caress of a lot of capes).

Scion implied that they were created specifically to give Eidolon a challenge - and again there's been much theorising about whether Eidolon created them or Scion did in some way because he needed Eidolon to develop, or whether the second entity did for the same reason, or who knows...

One of the things we're all desperately hoping for is that we'll actually get a canon answer on WTF they are before the sequel...

The 2 are not mutually exclusive at all.

They are both to challenge shards in general and for Eidolon to test himself. The fact that shards influence the host personality is pretty clear. Eidolon clearly inherited at least a bit of that from the thinker. The fact that they killed a bunch of people is no problem at all, it's just a part of the simulation results, I mean the thinker died because of those simulations and the Simurgh helped kill Scion because of them.

If the endbringers really wanted to destroy the world, the Simurgh would have made it trivially easy.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 01:14

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

NecroMonster posted:

Is Defiant dead? I'm really not clear on that.

Nope. He just got shoved around a bit and Pandora downloaded herself into his computer bits for a while.

I'm also very much looking forward to teacher getting his poo poo kicked in.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2013 07:37

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

That seems like the most likely explanation.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2013 08:01

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Grundulum posted:

Does this chapter suggest that we are actually seeing that the shards that Scion never intended for human use were distributed to humanity after his death? 'Cause if so, whoever gets the "auto victory" clap power is seriously going to ruin a lot of people's days.

The clap power isn't auto-victory future vision, it's some sort of effect where he bends physics and makes everything sort of stop moving/working. It pretty much breaks all of Newton's laws simultaneously.

He used it before without the clap too, I think against Leviathan he was shooting it out as energy balls or somethings.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 17:16

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Xemloth posted:

From what I could tell from Wildbow in the comments, it looks like it's the last chapter. Sounded like it was shaping up to something.

I've enjoyed all the epilogues so far, minus the teacher one, not sure what it is that I dislike about it though.

Pierson posted:

I waited that whole chapter for "and then Dragon dropped through the roof drilled Teacher through the forehead with a laser and said "also Saint is dead too deal /w it" and it never happened, 0/10.

This pretty much.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2013 02:00

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

She modifies powers of one person and it forms a similar sort of relationship as teacher has with his students.

Basically it's a more powerful of version of teacher's power that works on one person and builds a deeper mental bond.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2013 02:14

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

I think that's just her threatening him since it's implied by teacher that the head fuckery goes both ways. She's obsessed with Chevalier too.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2013 04:10

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:31

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

She's not lying about it, she's also not lying about deciding stuff on her own from then on.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2013 04:43

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