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Loving Life Partner posted:For people that have read Takeshi Kovacs, is the second book a bit of a letdown? I'm about halfway through the last one, Woken Furies, and I'm liking it about as much as Altered Carbon (which is to say a lot). It's a lot more like AC than the second book, which I did find enjoyable as well (just not as much).
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Jul 5, 2013 20:36
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Loving Life Partner posted:For people that have read Takeshi Kovacs, is the second book a bit of a letdown? I had the same experience of loving Altered Carbon and being indifferent to Broken Angles and finding Woken Furies unreadable. To relive the Altered Carbon expeience, try The Steel Remains by Morgan.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:32
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I know it was covered to death in the last thread but I just finished Perdido Street Station and I absolutely loved it to bits. He repeats himself with the polysyllabic words a bit (ineluctably inchoate in its opaque cacophony) and the last-minute revelation that Yag is a rapist kinda came out of nowhere and did nothing except show off how  dark the story is, but it was refreshing to see a genre novel with this immensely detailed backstory that doesn't read like a drat textbook. He's obviously put a lot of work into his setting but he knows exactly when to pull back and tell the story instead. Also, Mieville is seriously hunky. 
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Jul 6, 2013 08:19
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I will never tire of posting this 
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Jul 6, 2013 08:38
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I know it was covered to death in the last thread but I just finished Perdido Street Station and I absolutely loved it to bits. He repeats himself with the polysyllabic words a bit (ineluctably inchoate in its opaque cacophony) and the last-minute revelation that Yag is a rapist kinda came out of nowhere and did nothing except show off how Now get to reading The Scar. It's the best book in the Bas-Lag series, in my opinion.
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Jul 6, 2013 10:49
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ulvir posted:Now get to reading The Scar. It's the best book in the Bas-Lag series, in my opinion.
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Jul 6, 2013 11:58
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Yeah The Scar is definitely the best. I thought I was going to like Iron Council a whole lot more than I actually did, and it ended up being a chore to get through. A chore I enjoyed, I guess, I really liked some bits of it, but it somehow just didn't all work for me.
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Jul 6, 2013 15:16
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ulvir posted:Now get to reading The Scar. It's the best book in the Bas-Lag series, in my opinion. I feel like the more the books get away from New Crobuzon the better. Mieville just seems way too comfortable writing about sketchy characters just inhabiting the city and the overarching span of politics and society, so much so that he doesn't seem particularly worried about having characters or a plot. Iron Council returning to the setting was a mistake in my opinion, proved by the massive anticlimax where the whole book has been slowly, arduously leading to the Iron Council's arrival at New Crobuzon upon which nothing happens.
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Jul 6, 2013 17:06
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I know it was covered to death in the last thread but I just finished Perdido Street Station and I absolutely loved it to bits. He repeats himself with the polysyllabic words a bit (ineluctably inchoate in its opaque cacophony) and the last-minute revelation that Yag is a rapist kinda came out of nowhere and did nothing except show off how I thought that revelation showed Yag's cultural differences from the New Crobuzoners (there's something similar with the city garuda, and the cactusfolk, I think), though I'm not sure how it ties into the book's other concerns, or his character. I'm sure he has read The Dying Earth, though, and just forgot it. How could he not have? Megazver posted:recommendations I like this post because you listed a lot of books, there's the titles and authors included, and you described them a little, too.
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Jul 6, 2013 19:13
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House Louse posted:I like this post because you listed a lot of books, there's the titles and authors included, and you described them a little, too. Thanks broham.  Also, Mieville seems to imply he hasn't read The Dying Earth before writing TC&TC. Frankly, I find this hard to believe: China Mieville posted:I should say, also, that with the whole idea of a divided city there are analogies in the real world, as well as precursors within fantastic fiction. C. J. Cherryh wrote a book that had a divided city like that, in some ways, as did Jack Vance. Now I didn’t know this at the time, but I’m also not getting my knickers in a twist about it.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:37
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House Louse posted:I thought that revelation showed Yag's cultural differences from the New Crobuzoners (there's something similar with the city garuda, and the cactusfolk, I think), though I'm not sure how it ties into the book's other concerns, or his character. Yag's thing was one of my favorite bits. When Isaac decides to stand in judgement over him and took away the possibility of becoming a real(ish) Garuda again, he took an interesting alternative. Yag was, and remained a really bad Garuda. Bad both morally and physically. However, he turned out to be pretty much a big drat hero, or at least big drat anti-hero by criminal/interstitial-human standards, so in the end he decided to live as a human. Almost a happy ending. Sort of.
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Jul 6, 2013 21:59
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Megazver posted:Also, Mieville seems to imply he hasn't read The Dying Earth before writing TC&TC. Frankly, I find this hard to believe To be fair, they're super different.
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Jul 7, 2013 02:10
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Megazver posted:Libriomancer by Jim Hines. Less derivative of Dresden Files than Iron Druid, but more or less as fluff-y. It's alright. Speaking of Jim C. Hines, I whole heartedly recommend his Princess Series. A fantasy series of 4 novels, it is based around Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. He takes the inspiration for the characters and stories more from the original fairytales, but there could be some inspiration from the Disney versions, it has actually been a while since I read them, but Hines definitely puts his own spin on their stories and characters. The 4 books are, in order, The Stepsister Scheme, The Mermaid's Madness, Red Hood's Revenge, and The Snow Queen's Mirror.
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Jul 7, 2013 13:17
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Can I get a goonsensus on why I should avoid Ilium and Olympos by Dan Simmons? I remember there being a reason people don't like them but I can't remember what it was and I'm hearing great things about it on another forum. And I love the idea of posthumans recreating the Trojan war on Mars. It sounds loving awesome. I'm really enjoying The Terror by Simmons so far, and Hyperion will be the next book of his I tackle, but I'm wondering why people say stop there.
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Jul 7, 2013 15:03
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Hedrigall posted:Can I get a goonsensus on why I should avoid Ilium and Olympos by Dan Simmons? I remember there being a reason people don't like them but I can't remember what it was and I'm hearing great things about it on another forum. And I love the idea of posthumans recreating the Trojan war on Mars. It sounds loving awesome. I'm really enjoying The Terror by Simmons so far, and Hyperion will be the next book of his I tackle, but I'm wondering why people say stop there. Olympos is the not as good one, I liked Ilium. It's the same deal with The Fall of Hyperion, Simmons is just not good at sequels. Piell fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 7, 2013 |
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Jul 7, 2013 16:49
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House Louse posted:I thought that revelation showed Yag's cultural differences from the New Crobuzoners (there's something similar with the city garuda, and the cactusfolk, I think), though I'm not sure how it ties into the book's other concerns, or his character. There's this, that the cultural differences between Isaac and the desert garuda make it impossible for Isaac to judge Yag by the garuda's standards ie the crime as choice theft and not as rape, but I also read his character as a bit of a piss take on the whole fantasy archetype of the mysterious noble savage.
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Jul 7, 2013 17:00
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Hedrigall posted:Can I get a goonsensus on why I should avoid Ilium and Olympos by Dan Simmons? I remember there being a reason people don't like them but I can't remember what it was and I'm hearing great things about it on another forum. And I love the idea of posthumans recreating the Trojan war on Mars. It sounds loving awesome. I'm really enjoying The Terror by Simmons so far, and Hyperion will be the next book of his I tackle, but I'm wondering why people say stop there.
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Jul 7, 2013 17:06
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Hedrigall posted:Can I get a goonsensus on why I should avoid Ilium and Olympos by Dan Simmons? I remember there being a reason people don't like them but I can't remember what it was and I'm hearing great things about it on another forum. And I love the idea of posthumans recreating the Trojan war on Mars. It sounds loving awesome. I'm really enjoying The Terror by Simmons so far, and Hyperion will be the next book of his I tackle, but I'm wondering why people say stop there. The trojan war bit is fine, and the moravec robots are interesting, but the part that threw me was the GLOBAL CALIPHATE creating an anti-jew virus and a species of anti-jew murderbots
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Jul 7, 2013 17:10
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andrew smash posted:The trojan war bit is fine, and the moravec robots are interesting, but the part that threw me was the GLOBAL CALIPHATE creating an anti-jew virus and a species of anti-jew murderbots I haven't read those but that sounds about right considering how Simmons is just one of those writers that went completely nuts after 9/11. I remember hearing a synopsis of one of his recent books and it was something like "30 years in the future, America is in ruins because of Obamacare. Also, Mexicans are still illegally crossing the border despite the US being a shitpile".
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Jul 7, 2013 17:18
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Did Robert A. Heinlein write anything that wasn't just one giant incoherent rant about incest/whatever the gently caress else he was obsessed with? Not that I am ever going to waste my time reading any more of his works but I am just curious. Even Dan Simmon's crazy loving self can actually tone down and write a good story (The Terror), but when it comes to Heinlein it just seems to me that he wasn't interested in anything other than putting down his opinions in book form and hitting you over the head with it.
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Jul 7, 2013 17:21
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No. No, he did not.
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Jul 7, 2013 17:25
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Geek U.S.A. posted:Did Robert A. Heinlein write anything that wasn't just one giant incoherent rant about incest/whatever the gently caress else he was obsessed with? Not that I am ever going to waste my time reading any more of his works but I am just curious. Have Spacesuit - Will Travel? It and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress are the only two Heinlein books I really enjoyed. Have Spacesuit is written as a YA novel, but I enjoyed it.
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Jul 7, 2013 19:11
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Geek U.S.A. posted:Did Robert A. Heinlein write anything that wasn't just one giant incoherent rant about incest/whatever the gently caress else he was obsessed with? Not that I am ever going to waste my time reading any more of his works but I am just curious. Even Dan Simmon's crazy loving self can actually tone down and write a good story (The Terror), but when it comes to Heinlein it just seems to me that he wasn't interested in anything other than putting down his opinions in book form and hitting you over the head with it. Yah. A bunch of his juveniles fit this, but a Citizen of the Galaxy is probably his best pure story space romp. It's as good a story as Moon is a Harsh Mistress without any crazy space politics or incest chat or anything. Happy Hedonist posted:Have Spacesuit - Will Travel? It and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress are the only two Heinlein books I really enjoyed. Have Spacesuit is written as a YA novel, but I enjoyed it. All Heinlein is actually YA in one sense or another. His first twelve novels up through Starship Troopers were explicitly YA (the "juveniles"), but really everything he ever wrote shows that early YA bent to his career. His target audience was always the intelligent thirteen year old boy.
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Jul 7, 2013 19:19
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Heinlein's earlier books (pre-Starship Troopers, I think) are generally more highly regarded than the later. Look at the SFE entry. Hedrigall posted:Can I get a goonsensus on why I should avoid Ilium and Olympos by Dan Simmons? I remember there being a reason people don't like them but I can't remember what it was and I'm hearing great things about it on another forum. And I love the idea of posthumans recreating the Trojan war on Mars. It sounds loving awesome. I'm really enjoying The Terror by Simmons so far, and Hyperion will be the next book of his I tackle, but I'm wondering why people say stop there. I thought goonsensus was actually "Read Ilium, avoid Olympos, which is where things go downhill"?
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Jul 7, 2013 19:49
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Geek U.S.A. posted:Did Robert A. Heinlein write anything that wasn't just one giant incoherent rant about incest/whatever the gently caress else he was obsessed with? Not that I am ever going to waste my time reading any more of his works but I am just curious. Even Dan Simmon's crazy loving self can actually tone down and write a good story (The Terror), but when it comes to Heinlein it just seems to me that he wasn't interested in anything other than putting down his opinions in book form and hitting you over the head with it. Everything before Starship troopers, especially his short stories. None of his shorts suck, many of them are some of the finest examples of the form in SF. Get a copy of The Green Hills of Earth.
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Jul 7, 2013 20:02
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Megazver posted:
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Jul 7, 2013 21:44
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Happy Hedonist posted:Have Spacesuit - Will Travel? It and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress are the only two Heinlein books I really enjoyed. Have Spacesuit is written as a YA novel, but I enjoyed it.  I don't know how anybody can enjoy that book
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Jul 7, 2013 21:59
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:
Well, Moon was written before the internet filled up with 15 year old white basement libertarians, so the idea wasn't quite as poisoned as it is with modern sophomores and republicans.
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Jul 8, 2013 00:13
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Megazver posted:You got most of them, really. Here's a few more: If the prior poster liked the Patricia Briggs books they may also like the Rachel Morgan/The Hollows books by Kim Harrison. They are basically a female Dresden in a slightly more fantasy version of the world, with a little bit more romance. Also Pixies and Faeries are badass infiltrators/assassins, and one of the main characters is a Pixie.
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Jul 8, 2013 00:47
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I don't like Heinlein's writing, but I can't dislike him because this letter always makes me go  .Phillip K Dick posted:"Several years ago, when I was ill, Heinlein offered his help, anything he could do, and we had never met; he would phone me to cheer me up and see how I was doing. He wanted to buy me an electric typewriter, God bless him—one of the few true gentlemen in this world. I don't agree with any ideas he puts forth in his writing, but that is neither here nor there. One time when I owed the IRS a lot of money and couldn't raise it, Heinlein loaned the money to me. I think a great deal of him and his wife; I dedicated a book to them in appreciation. Robert Heinlein is a fine-looking man, very impressive and very military in stance; you can tell he has a military background, even to the haircut. He knows I'm a flipped-out freak and still he helped me and my wife when we were in trouble. That is the best in humanity, there; that is who and what I love."
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Jul 8, 2013 01:53
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I don't like Heinlein's writing, but I can't dislike him because this letter always makes me go There is another along the same lines. Theodore Sturgeon writes to Heinlein for help with a crippling case of writers block. Heinlein writes back with 26 story ideas, and a check for next months rent. http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/10/help-from-heinlein.html
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Jul 8, 2013 02:39
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Hedrigall posted:Can I get a goonsensus on why I should avoid Ilium and Olympos by Dan Simmons? I remember there being a reason people don't like them but I can't remember what it was and I'm hearing great things about it on another forum. And I love the idea of posthumans recreating the Trojan war on Mars. It sounds loving awesome. I'm really enjoying The Terror by Simmons so far, and Hyperion will be the next book of his I tackle, but I'm wondering why people say stop there. You should definitely read them. The Trojan War stuff is awesome, and the other plot-lines can be slow at first but get interesting too. The second book wasn't as good as the first for me, but I think most of it had to do with a lot of the mysteries in the series already being revealed, and a large part of the appeal was trying to figure out how all the different elements in the separate plots tied together.
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Jul 8, 2013 02:56
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andrew smash posted:The trojan war bit is fine, and the moravec robots are interesting, but the part that threw me was the GLOBAL CALIPHATE creating an anti-jew virus and a species of anti-jew murderbots The part where the Protagonist history professor takes Paris' form and fucks Helena better than Paris ever did is pretty iffy too.
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Jul 8, 2013 09:30
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Slo-Tek posted:There is another along the same lines. drat, this is extraordinary! After all this talk of batshit crazy rear end in a top hat sci-fi writers, along comes this fine loving gentleman. Now you will all probably find some article about heinlein that he serially raped and killed little orphan girls or some poo poo...
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Jul 8, 2013 11:44
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Does anyone have any good recommendations for a fantasy novel or series that is relatively optimistic? I'm just not very into the whole GRRM grim-and-gritty-'realism' schtick. If you don't mind a bit of a rant, I like my fantasy to be, well, fantasy. I already know people suck, I'd like to get away from that for a while. I've tried reading the Wheel of Time series and didn't like it very much. I also like urban fantasy quite a bit - I've read the Dresden Files, Rivers of London, Felix Castor, the Rook, and some others. Now I don't mean to imply I dislike it when bad things happen, I'm ok with horrific destruction so long as it's treated with gravitas and anguish and it all ends on a somewhat upbeat note.
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Jul 8, 2013 12:27
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Decius posted:The part where the Protagonist history professor takes Paris' form and fucks Helena better than Paris ever did is pretty iffy too. Hahaha, yeah, I forgot about that.
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Jul 8, 2013 13:35
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VanSandman posted:Does anyone have any good recommendations for a fantasy novel or series that is relatively optimistic? I'm just not very into the whole GRRM grim-and-gritty-'realism' schtick. If you don't mind a bit of a rant, I like my fantasy to be, well, fantasy. I already know people suck, I'd like to get away from that for a while. I've tried reading the Wheel of Time series and didn't like it very much. I also like urban fantasy quite a bit - I've read the Dresden Files, Rivers of London, Felix Castor, the Rook, and some others. Food Guy posted:Speaking of Jim C. Hines, I whole heartedly recommend his Princess Series. A fantasy series of 4 novels, it is based around Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. He takes the inspiration for the characters and stories more from the original fairytales, but there could be some inspiration from the Disney versions, it has actually been a while since I read them, but Hines definitely puts his own spin on their stories and characters. The 4 books are, in order, The Stepsister Scheme, The Mermaid's Madness, Red Hood's Revenge, and The Snow Queen's Mirror. There are some darker points in this series, but overall it doesn't go anywhere near grimdark, with the exception of one particular part, but it is treated with the appropriate gravitas required.
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Jul 8, 2013 13:41
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VanSandman posted:Does anyone have any good recommendations for a fantasy novel or series that is relatively optimistic? I'm just not very into the whole GRRM grim-and-gritty-'realism' schtick. If you don't mind a bit of a rant, I like my fantasy to be, well, fantasy. I already know people suck, I'd like to get away from that for a while. I've tried reading the Wheel of Time series and didn't like it very much. I also like urban fantasy quite a bit - I've read the Dresden Files, Rivers of London, Felix Castor, the Rook, and some others. Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls by Lois Bujold. You'll either love or hate Max Frei's The Stranger books. Check out the reviews and excerpts to find out which. Pratchett, obviously. Start with, hmmm, Guards Guards, Going Postal or Small Gods. It's been a while since I've read Robert Asprin's Myth books but the first few books should be good, I believe. Bridge of Birds. The Ethshar books are reportedly fun upbeat fantasy slice-of-life affairs, but I haven't had the chance to get to them yet. The Iron Druid books are pretty much Dresden Files-lite and will hit the same spot. Silver Pigs by Lindsey Davis is the first book in a fun series about a Roman gumshoe. John Scalzi writes scifi, but I think you'll enjoy it. I suspect you might have an easier time getting into The Songs of Dying Earth, the all-star tribute anthology of stories set in Jack Vance's Dying Earth than if you started with the real deal. For other UF picks check out my post on the previous page and the guy I responded to. Good books there. Megazver fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jul 8, 2013 |
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Jul 8, 2013 13:52
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VanSandman posted:Does anyone have any good recommendations for a fantasy novel or series that is relatively optimistic? I'm just not very into the whole GRRM grim-and-gritty-'realism' schtick. If you don't mind a bit of a rant, I like my fantasy to be, well, fantasy. I already know people suck, I'd like to get away from that for a while. I've tried reading the Wheel of Time series and didn't like it very much. I also like urban fantasy quite a bit - I've read the Dresden Files, Rivers of London, Felix Castor, the Rook, and some others. I think this might be interesting to you: http://www.amazon.com/From-Hell-ebook/dp/B0055SXWLG/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373301361&sr=1-1&keywords=from+hell+ian
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Jul 8, 2013 17:36
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Megazver posted:You got most of them, really. Here's a few more: I loved this, first time author and if he can match it he is going to be really successful quote:
These were great up until the very end. I was actually kind of angry at how they left it, I don't want to figure it out I want an ending . Others may enjoy it but it really didn't do it for me.
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